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Have any of you practiced "Unconditional" love in a relationship?

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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:43 AM
Original message
Have any of you practiced "Unconditional" love in a relationship?
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 09:56 AM by TNOE
A little background:

Last June (one week before my only daughter's wedding) I ran into a guy I went to church with when we were young - 13. We liked each other than but how do you really date at 13. When we saw each other again, he asked if I wanted to go for a drink and talk and of course I said yes. We had a blast, he was so easy to talk to and I have never felt this strong of an attraction to someone - I don't think ever. We have been on & off since June - he seems to come & go, but he does have alot of problems right now, financially and emotionally. He is beyond gorgeous and I know there is at least one other person he sees and maybe more. He's been divorced for 3 years now and his ex has remarried. But when we're together we talk until 2-3 in the morning, we laugh like crazy and have great talks. He's been very honest & open about his affairs and that he doesn't think he could ever be faithful to someone and he doesn't know if he's ever felt "love" for any woman.

I don't know what gets into me, but everytime we get together I offer for him to come & live with me for awhile until he gets his "stuff" together and just let me take care of him. Which I really want to.

According to my tarot cards - he's going to be coming back into my life soon and it looks like there will be a living arrangement. I'm a big believer in the Conversations with God theory/books and according to higher spiritual principals - you are to love "unconditionally" - and that no one can really "hurt" you - that God has sent you nothing but Angels and everything is a lesson for soul progression. I think I'm strong enough to handle this but I'm wondering if there is a down side? What's the worse that can happen (outside of a sexual disease perhaps). He has told me that he has been crying alot lately (and that he never does that) - and that he is just not "happy" right now. He has 3 children & 1 grandchild and I can tell he loves his parents to death.

He has said from the beginning that I intimidate him and that he's not sure if he can handle me - and I'm suffering from issues of low self-confidence right now because I've put on some weight and I'm 46 and I just don't feel as attractive as I once was. So I think there is low self-esteem on both our parts - he's gorgeous but has nothing to offer me financially - and I don't care about that. For the first time in my life I'm beginning to get on my feet after being a single parent for 21 years - and I can offer a roof over his head, food, love & care. I might be wrong but I think for sure he has always dated "beneath" me. I hope that doesn't sound tacky, but I have always been told I am a very classy woman and I have a very nice home and I'm a very nice person.

So I would just like a little advice from you all - your experiences - is it worth it - I don't want pride to get in the way of what I feel could be a very special relationship. I think my friends think I'm being foolish - but honestly I've always handled break up and pain way better than they have - I think I am strong enough and I also think perhaps this is a lesson I'm ready to learn - to love unconditionally. So any thoughts? I'd be very appreciative. Thanks.

Edited to add more details.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Can I be frank? I speak as someone who has been there
When a man says "I don't think I can be faithful to anyone" believe him!

What a great deal you are offering him -- he can be taken care of by you and continue to sleep with other women because your "unconditional love" won't allow you to set any boundaries. Does unconditional love really mean no boundaries? When your daughter was growing up did loving her unconditionally mean letting her do what she wanted -- or did it mean setting boundaries and doing what was best for her even if it meant she hated you for it? Why should this be any different with an adult relationship?

Where is the incentive for him to evolve? Exactly what lessons do you think he will get from this situation other than "I don't have to grow up and take responsibility because there will always be some woman who will want to take care of me"? Why did he divorce? Did he learn any lessons from his first marriage? What lessons do you want to take from this?

Honey, you deserve someone who is grounded in male energy, doesn't need to be fixed and doesn't need to be taken care of. You need a man, not a little boy. Guys like this are experts on finding women who have that urge to nurture and rescue. You might do better to get a dog -- at least a dog will love you back unconditionally.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but you did ask for advice! Just my $.02 worth.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I appreciate it
and I totally understand what you are saying, and I've thought the same myself. But why on earth do I have these feelings I can't control. Believe me, I've been in aLOT of relationships and they all seemed to run their natural course, they never worked out - but I don't believe they wre supposed to - although I have never felt like this with any of them. I did our relationship horoscope on Astrodenist and it came up "this is love pure & simple".

He told me that when his wife caught him the 3rd or 4th or 5th time, whatever it was - he said she said I don't want to be 50 years old and still having to go through this with you - and he said he thought about that and knew he couldn't change and that he just couldn't hurt her anymore - and told her that she needed to move on and find someone who wouldn't do that to her - and she did.

Don't you think though that giving someone unconditional love - without expecting anything in return would help him to evolve? To me he just looks like a sad little pup that needs to be loved and cared for. I know that's my nuturing side talking - but still, I wonder what I have to lose? I've not been in a relationship for 2 years - and I am truly very happy & content. I don't feel like I "need" anything from anyone - but I do have a lot to give and I think what you give to another - you give to yourself.

I did tell him though - that if someone did come along who I felt like was my soulmate - or someone who just rocked my world (never has ever happened until now though) - that our situation would have to change and that I would want to pursue that relationship. And he said - so it would be bye to me huh? And I said yes. But that's the chance you take - that's the chance we all take - I personally have been an abused child and was in a very very abusive marriage - so I have a great deal of fear when it comes to marriage & committment - I'm not sure its for me - because it seems like they always want to control & own you and I can't ever abide by that. So this would certainly be a realtionship where I'm not owned or controlled - I'm just being his guardian angel maybe?

He's 46 - certainly sooner or later - the sexual desire is going to lessen for him. I've asked why do you feel the need to be with others - is it self-esteem issues (he said maybe) or you just want to confirm to yourself that you've still got it (he said maybe)but he said he didn't know why he does it.

I really do appreciate your feedback. I know in the end I will just have to figure it out - is it going to be worth it or not.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. In nature evolution happens when conditions are not easy
The organism is forced to adapt when conditions are other than what it is used to or it dies. If the environment is ideal then there is no reason to evolve. It looks like you are offering this man an ideal environment, so why would he change?

I don't think it is our purpose here to be responsible for another's evolution or enlightment -- we are only responsible for our own.

A lot of women have been influenced by culture to buy into the idea that all a man needs is the love of a good woman and he will change (or grow, or evolve). I know I have, and have the relationship "battle scars" to show for it, and I'll bet many here (including you) do, too. Well, no more of that for me.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. ps
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 04:33 PM by kineta
sometimes there are astrological connections and phermonal/sexual attractions between people that can be quite overwhelming. But believe me when I say that these alone are NOT the sole, or main basis for relationship. I've been there, I dated someone whose chart was astoundingly well matched with mine, we had incredible sex and a profound attraction for one another, and happily we are good friends to this day. But even though we are very compatible on many levels he is simply NOT cut out for a committed relationship. He even called me his 'soulmate' - and at 45 his two year relationship with me is the longest he's ever dated a woman. He's addicted to flirting and short flings. This is very evident from his chart. I could have looked at our compatibility without looking at him (or his chart) and continued to fool myself into thinking that if i was patient enough it would eventually work and set myself up for years of heartache.

It's not your job to help this guy evolve. He might not even appreciate that you are thinking that way about him. In fact it seems to me that loving someone unconditionally would entail accepting them just as they are without wanting to change or fix him. And also being very realistic about your own needs and wants in a relationship. Ask yourself, can he provide for those needs AS HE IS NOW? If the answer is no, then just be his friend. If you really care about him, realize that friendships often outlast romantic relationships anyway.

You sound deep in the throws of an addictive hormone rush though, so I doubt you will take any advice that goes against your desires.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well I don't know if I'll take it
but I sure am taking everything said under consideration - and I appreciate your words of advice. Its going to definitely be interesting that's for sure. And you know what? The friendship thing is not a bad idea, I can insist that we "just" be friends and live as friends. That might even work better.

Regardless, I really appreciate your taking the time to respond.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. good luck to you TNOE
and treat yourself well :hug:
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. This guy sounds like he's infatuated with himself.
Your unconditional love will make him a happy man, until he feels trapped by it and has to reach out to women with whom there is no connection other than lust.

He'll not show up some night after you've cooked a beautiful meal with candlelight. He'll disappear on a holiday for which you've counted on him. He'll lie and lie and lie.

Eventually this relationship will be over. If your love is unconditional it won't matter.
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purduejake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-28-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. As another person who has been abused...
several red flags are raised. First, it seems like you are setting yourself up for for disappointment. People who are emotionally abused tend to try to change people and make them happy. This man is saying that he doesn't think he can be faithful and I think you may want to change that for this special relationship you are longing for. What do you have to loose? Your happiness for one as you constantly work to change him, but don't have success. There are better men out there for you. I've been through similar relationships and this just sounds like bad news. Please be careful!
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I have to agree with Love Bug
I've been there too and have learned to really LISTEN to what men say about themselves - it is always invariably true. Your post is full of all sorts of red flags and I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of hurt. If you want to love this man "unconditionally" do so as a friend, not as a lover. My intuition (and common sense) strongly suggests that this man is VERY bad news (as a romantic partner).

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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I also agree with this take on the proposed relationship.
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 04:25 PM by DemExpat
Based on intuition and lots of experience, I also do not see the point of taking care of another adult in this manner....and by what is revealed about already present problems with self-confidence (physical attractiveness and sexually), having a partner afraid to commit and love "unconditionally" in return is asking for trouble and heartache IMO.

I would definitely maintain a strong relationship with him since the attraction is so great, but I would keep it platonic and in separate homes.

:hug: and best wishes, TNOE, you have guts to be so openly honest and asking for honest feedback just by putting this out here on the forum IMO!

DemEx

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silverlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. How can you disagree when
Love Bug talks about unconditional love. I certainly can't. I've been there and have loved unconditionally, too, to the point of forgetting that unconditional love first begins with loving yourself. And some of the boundaries that you set for yourself will help you do this. I'm still working on it myself, so I'm certainly no expert. I just remember the pain of the lesson from my experience. Sure, the lesson needed to be learned, and I guess I am grateful for the lesson, but that's about the sum of it.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Actually...I've been there too....
and I echo Love Bug's advice.....

I really think unconditional love is fine...except when it comes to "romantic love"...then it all goes out the window and what we tell ourselves is unconditional love is more like becoming a doormat....our boundaries dissolve and we allow things to pass that, if we weren't under the illusion of loving "unconditionally", we would never put up with or go along with.I've always found that the minute you get an attachment to the outcome, unconditional goes bye bye.

Can you do it with NO EXPECTATIONS...no hoping he will see how wonderful you are and loving and the perfect one for him, etc etc ....and no hoping that he will suddenly some day realize that he belongs with you...?
I thought I was able to do all that but when you become emotionally attached to the outcome, it is next to impossible not to have any expectations and hopes for the future.

Why do you feel the need to take care of him? Is it at all reciprocated? ...and if he tells you NOW that you intimidate him and he's not sure he can handle you(?)...look out. I had basically the same thing said to me and it did not turn out real well (fortunately I never had expectations that it would)

Oh honey:hug::hug::hug:, I really do know how you feel....I wish I could say yeah, this'll be perfect for you...and it may be exactly the lesson you need - but I can pretty much assure you it will not be the lesson you think you are getting. I personally think (make that KNOW) you deserve so much better...a man who sees you in all your beauty & strength and doesn't feel intimidated and doesn't have the urge to be less than 100% faithful.

I would say that if you can do this without getting deeply emotionally attached and allow him to be who he really is and accept that and absolutely live with it...and you have fun and want to take a chance with no expectations as to outcome, then :shrug: ....I just want you to make sure you have your eyes wide open and don't fall into the illusion that something is "unconditional love" when it is really something else.

BTW- the downside is you could be hurt and disappointed and may have spent too much time in something that ultimately will not end up where you want to be and may have missed other opportunities...on the upside, the journey may have some good times and insights....

You really do deserve someone better IMHO...but these guys are so sparkly and fun & needy...great temptations to "take care of", aren't they?

I wish you all the best and please remember we are here for you...:loveya::hug:

You are an awesome lady...never forget that you deserve the BEST!!!!
:loveya:DR
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you DR
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 12:11 PM by TNOE
I've come so far on my spiritual journey - that I really do feel like I'm so strong now and that whatever the outcome is - it is what is best. I've learned not to grieve over what's been lost - because I truly believe my life works in perfect divine order and that the outcome is divine, even if it hurts. The trick is not to allow it to hurt. I really have learned to love myself - and I also really feel the need to share that love with someone who needs it - and yes, without any expectations. If I would have to guess - I would say that I'd give the relationship a year tops, and maybe not that long, until he was strong enough to move on.

Have you read any of the Conversations with God books? It basically says that all people should be free to love whom ever they want to love - and that in the higher spiritual realms, that is the way it is. I know that seems a little weird - but I also know these books have changed my life forever for the better. I've never felt more "okay" than now in trying to live the ideal. I know many will not understand me being okay with infidelity (especially my friends - who know) - but I guess I feel like everyone should do whatever it is that makes them happy and maybe they'll find that that's not necessarily what makes them happy after all. But if his "happiness" impedes on my "happiness", then he would have to go be happy on his own, because I am truly, for the very first time in my life - happy. Just plain happy - with no one being in my life and with my daughter gone - and with everything. I can honestly say I have finally found happiness - and its within me.

I don't know why I feel the need to take care of him, but I do. I look at him and think, he just really needs to be loved. He always says his ex was a "good wife" but then he will go on to say how he always did his own laundry, she didn't work & raised the kids, but he never has a bad word to say about her. I have gotten the imprssion that she was very controlling. I know he was never allowed out with his friends for a beer or anything. I also don't know why every cell in body goes crazy when he's in my presence and my body temperature rises about 20 degrees. I have honestly never had these kind of emotions, and that has really thrown me too.

He said when his mother & father divorced that his mother said - you want love, come with me - if you want stuff, stay with your father. And C said - I wanted the love so I went with Mom. That just struck me.

I'm in a very confused state with this issue - but I know I will go with my gut and throw caution to the wind - and say why not. I think I've got my own issues here to with being afraid to commit and being afraid to get married - I run like hell if I think that's going to be the next step - so I guess I feel safe in not being trapped with him.


:hugs: - Its good to talk with you again!
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Given everything that you've said, it sounds as though...
it's something that you have to do. I personally could not do it, but we each have free will and our own paths.

I have one question for you: Would it bother you if he brought other women into your home?

I hope that you find happiness, TNOE.

:hug:
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks
I just love all the good people in this forum. Yes, it would most definitely bother me if he brought another woman into my home - I told him there are 3 rules - None of my friends, not anyone I know and he is to bring No One to my home. He said "come on, I know there will be rules" - and I said "yes, three". He was like wow, is that it? REally? I mean if he's going to do what he's going to do - and it is obviously this pressing need with him, something he has to work out - then I don't know how I would ever stop it. I'm a little self-conscious too, becasue I wonder if maybe he is not attracted to me because I'm overweight now, maybe he doesn't have the "desire" for me. I know that his ex was skinny - and I heard very plan. They married when he was 17.

Thanks for the good wishes.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. My sense is that its most likely "past life"
(although I see all the lifetimes as "now" lifetimes which makes the pull even stronger)

You guys clearly have some strong connections...maybe as you mothering him as an orphan in another life...or wanting to and not being able to give him that nurturing. I find that those bonds can be very strong and impossible to explain- to yourself and others.

Is he open spiritually? I see that as a big thing for you. Sounds like a sensitive guy and also that this is something you want to do...so ....just remember to love yourself first and foremost...and if you get joy from helping him then hopefully it is enough to balance the energies...just don't deplete yourself, honey!! :hug:

I was about your age when I went through an *interesting* time with a Hopi artist (he had other serious problems though) but I actually came out stronger and wiser at the end which was one of the things what I wanted to accomplish. I went into it knowing there was no real future, but like you, I felt I was ready for the experiences he brought into my life and although a lot of baggage went with it...it was worth it all (...and I got to hang out on Hopi land!!!) :bounce:

Anyhow...above all trust and love yourself...honor him for the gifts he brings into your life...just don't be a doormat or put his feelings ahead of yours.

OK...thats all I have for now :evilgrin:
:hug::hug::loveya:
DR
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yep, I think that's got to be it
the past life connection - otherwise why on earth do I feel this way - I've NEVER felt this way. I really hadn't thought of it (until just now) that maybe I do owe it to him, maybe we were together before and I wasn't very loving. I don't know, but if we have been together in a past life - I will eventually dream about it. I always have - and it usually brings great light to what is going on in the relationship. I will ask tonight to have a dream about it, that will probably help clear up the situation - if the dream comes. If I have these feelings for him - I wonder if he feels the same weirdness - although when we first met we talked about if we'd ever been in love - and I said I hadn't (I didn't know I was going to be) and he said he hadn't either - that he had never had those feelings.

Also, the firm I work out has his Company's account - so I am privy to information that is not public information and I learned on Friday that his boss is selling the company and he's going to be out of a job - not sure how soon and I don't even know if he knows it yet or not. That is going to be the next blow he will have to deal with - which I know he is not prepared for.

He seems very afraid to take me up on my offer though - I offered it weeks ago, so I'm wondering what he's afraid of. He asked me what I expected out of the deal - and I just said "change". That I'm ready for my life to change now. I had shut myself down long enough and it was time to get back out in the world and have some fun - and he sure is alot of fun.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh and I just remembered the dream I had last
week - which really profoundly affected me and I thought about it for days but I was getting remarried again to my ex - and it was a big huge affair with lots of flowers and I had a great dress and catering and I kept thinking why on earth am I marrying him again - I don't even know him now and if I wasn't happy then, I'm certainly not going to be happy now and I was looking for a way to get out of it and was wondering how I got myself into this mess - and then I overheard my Mom & sister talking about how they had just seen my ex out in the car making out with some other girl but that they didn't want to tell me before the wedding and "spoil" everything they had done. I took off running and landed in swamp land and was sinking - but then I was right back at the wedding - and it was all over and people were just eating & having fun - and not mentioning a word to me about where did I go or anything. My ex's grandma was crying saying I'm so sorry he screwed up again. (He was a very bad husband, cheated relentlessly, and it gets worse. I've always said I went to hell for 2 years, seen it, been there, done it - we were married for 2 years).


C was at the wedding with another woman and they were fighting and I had the distinct impression that there was someone else at the wedding that he was either interested in or had been with - and I just walked up to him and said - will you please marry me? Then I woke up.

So I don't know if you all can make any sense out of that or not.
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Desertrose, will you marry me?
Someone not attached to the outcome? Am I dreaming? No expectations? Someone pinch me! LOL On a serious note(not that I wasn't serious before), I couldn't agree with you more.

I do practice unconditional love, in all my relationships. They don't always work out according to traditional models, but I'm anything but traditional. One thing I have learned about unconditional love is that if it isn't being practiced by those you are involved with, then don't be surprised if you wind up alone again. No fault to that person, or you for that matter. Some people don't get unconditional love, and when you accept the fact that they don't, and love them anyway, they have a tendency to get very confused.

Loving someone unconditionally doesn't say that you don't have limits or healthy boundaries. When my wife claimed she loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore, it didn't change the fact that I still loved her. I do, but I will also accept the boundary she has set for herself and allow her the space she is asking for without judgment or recrimination. Sometimes, if people can't accept the person you are, that's cool. It doesn't change what I have given up until then. That doesn't change if it was given without the EXPECTATION of reciprocation. I love her because she is easy to love, in spite of herself. It's sad she is unable(at this point in time)to return or accept what is given in like kind. I was ready for that possibility, I always am because it is the nature of human beings to expect something in return for what they give. Kind of a natural state of things in a free market society. The natural state of humanity is contained within the confines of conditional love. What is unnatural is unconditional love. It is automatically looked on with suspicion and mistrust. Or the person who is acting unconditionally is thought of as weak or a potential doormat. But just because I love you unconditionally, doesn't mean I'm going to let you misuse me or my love. If I did that I'd only be another masochist. One can only love others unconditionally when they have learned to love themselves unconditionally first. "For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall me measured to you again. And why behold the mote that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull out the mote out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Matt. 7:2-6)

Unconditional love is a gift that one gives to themselves. When it is experienced, indeed, you want to share it with everyone. This doesn't mean that discretion shouldn't be exercised. It would be wasted on some people. And if you find that it can no longer be received by those you have given it to, give them the room they need. Respect them for who they are and maintain who you are in all things. Adjust to the new reality and continue to remain what you have always been up to that point. Accept the fact that the time you have had with that person may be at its natural end. No judgment, no anger. Sadness, of course, endings are always sad. But part with love and hope for the future. Be true to what you have given and do not allow for anyone to claim it was anything but love that was given. In truth only you can know how and why you gave. And if those you have given to are honest, they will know also.

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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Some good stuff from your experiences here, leanin_green.....
This (quote below) does surprise me, as I have never in this lifetime met someone able to do this - some getting closer to this state, but never anybody there. :-)

One can only love others unconditionally when they have learned to love themselves unconditionally first.

I know that I get tiny steps closer all of the time with this, but still, unconditional love for someone who you are living with daily who does not reciprocate is still, to me, a sign of trying to fill some hole in oneself by looking outward, not inward. This is from my own experiences.........
I just don't see (feel) how anybody here on earth at this time could be so "selfless" to only give, except to one's babies, one's children growing up......an unconditional loving that I had NO trouble with.

BTW - I am still livng with my partner and father of our kids after 25 years where being in love is long gone....and at this point we have a shared history, some friendship, and materially comfortable life together that we value..... but still, I often (not always!) feel it is out of weakness (fear of going it alone) that we stay together.

DemEx
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Hey DemEx, allow me to speak to my experience.
You said, ". . .unconditional love for someone who you are living with daily who does not reciprocate is still, to me, a sign of trying to fill some hole in oneself by looking outward, not inward."

You have just depicted what happens to 99 percent of people who haven't done the INNER work first in order to free themselves from the need to look outward to fill holes within themselves. This is especially true of people within our own culture. A culture dominated with outward appearances and the projection of images. The gods of this culture are plastered all over the tabloids, glamor mags and entertainment shows that present this lifestyle as desirable and the life to be achieved. It permeates all aspects of our daily lives. From the way that we look at ourselves to the way we interact within the relationships we form. Conditional love. If you look like this, you will be loved. If you make this much money everyone will love you. A very sad commentary on what constitutes love, wouldn't you say? And this is where my experience takes over.

My father was born in Hollywood, my mother, not far from there in Loma Linda, California. My dad saw himself as the next James Dean. My mother projected an image of Doris Day. Were they conscious of these projections? Only they know for sure. But these images were present none the less and captured in pictures of them as young adults. My mother, for a time ran with a fast set during the time when the Marilyn Monroe look was all the rage. She was a blond, busty beauty with a flare for the dramatic and dated Lloyd Bridges for awhile. But she had a problem with drinking and a festering emotional wound that limited her ability to become anything more than my eventual mother. My dad had a different ability. An ability to project himself as someone more than he was. When he was in the Navy and in China during the 50's, he would go to his tailor in Hong Kong, slip into his business suits and pass himself off as an oil executive for Standard Oil. He even dated the mayor of Hong Kong's daughter and attended all the finest functions the city had to offer. He was an accomplished ballroom dancer and could run a line of bullshit so long that I'm sure he had trouble keeping up with it himself. When the pressure came from the mayor's daughter for a more permanent arrangement, he deftly extricated himself from the scene by getting orders for another part of the fleet that helped him avoid Hong Kong. All of this from the son of a simple cotton farmer outside of Lancaster, California. Enter now how my future parents met. My father saw my mother for the first time in, of all places, a liquor store somewhere in Los Angeles. Well, my dad just had to have this beauty and the game was afoot. Ballroom dancing. Long, flowing chiffon dresses and the well-dressed crowd and my mother was swept away. Soon after the wedding, this little bundle of joy came along in the face of a son that on a soul level, had issues along the same lines that these two innocents carried within their make-ups. After the numerous traumas and life events that come from the myriad of dysfunctional tales that seem to permeate my generation, this son grew into adulthood. Replete with all the nice little legacies picked up from the combination of families these two represented. Until a time it all came to a head while following his father's path in the Navy and his mother's trait of drinking heavily and sampling all the substances that came along while in pursuit of the HIGH life. Mental and emotional breakdown at the age of twenty-one.

You know, I'm amazed at how easy it is to become invisible within the daily world when someone is in such a precarious state. We are so busily involved with our own lives that the lives of those around us are hardly noticed. As long as the proper functions are carried out in what constitutes a normal life, the proper verbal exchanges and daily routines, you can quite easily escape the scrutiny of those around you. It was in such a state of being that I had one of the many contacts with spirit that have come to define my existence and the quirky way I have of looking at the life around me. During the many nights of jousting with what I chose to call God and reading material that was supplied to me from my very religious grandfather, I erupted in anger. I threw the Bible and other reading material against the wall, crying out in utter frustration and confusion for God to reveal itself to me. I demanded to be free of all the veil of words professing to be of God and begged for the presence of God to be made known to me. I threw myself on my bed in abject dejection, not believing anything to be possible and began to weep uncontrollably. I was so at my wits end I was becoming afraid for my very life. And then, quite imperceptibly at first, I became aware of the feeling of great arms enfolding me, lifting me into the most loving bosom and beating with the heart of life itself. I opened my eyes, "Was I still alone?" I knew I was, but I had to be sure. And in seeing that I was completely alone and that the sensation became even stronger, I gasped and it seemed that a deep reservoir of pain, longing and sadness welled up within me until I was crying and sobbing so uncontrollably that my body shook in one long continuous shudder until I had to bury my face within that bosom as those great loving arms held me closer, brushing away the strands of hair from my tear soaked face. Stroking my hair as I could feel myself being rocked gently into the most restful sleep and where I began to dream. I felt and experienced unconditional love then. Acceptance and understanding for who I was, at that time and in that moment. When I awoke the next day, it was with me still. It remains to this day through all my travels. In truth it is the only thing that truly exists. All else is but the illusions and projections of the dreams of Humanity. I have taken this knowledge and have been actively cleaning out my own inner house. I have met many along the way. I have retraced the darker paths of my own soul with an eye for coming to terms with my own human condition. In doing so, I have let go of the need to judge the lives of others and to trust that they too tread along paths that are not my own but significant none the less. I understand what Jesus meant when he said, "And he that shall lose himself shall find himself." I have learned to trust that those who are presented into my life are there for a purpose. I embrace them all with the love that was shown to me and I am learning to accept them no matter where they are in this journey we call life. I share what I can when the doors are open and I wait in anticipation of what it is they are to bring to me in way of knowledge, experience and teaching. And I realize that everything around me is miraculous and that I live at a time when incredible events are about to unfold. I chose this time to be born and I await the day I may be of service to those who will be in need.

This is my experience up until now. These are the dictates that guide my life. This is how I have chosen to experience this particular life.
There will be others, of this I am assured. For now, I wait and I prepare.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks for sharing your story.....
Edited on Sun Feb-26-06 07:12 PM by DemExpat
I think I understand where you are coming from with your experiences.
I, too, have spent my adult life re-creating my self from childhood broken illusions and pain in my 20s and ongoing.....I have well known the depths of despair too....:hug:

My experience differs in that I did not see God or have the unconditional love envelop me, but my experience of having 2 children taught me the purity and power of unconditional, selfless love. (Animals teach me this as well)

I also agree that many paths are significant, and I can sense that your path of unconditional love could be a truth if you are so solid in your love of self and others that you have no expectations or needs of your own from others.

So, I do now better understand your viewpoint, thanks for taking the time to relate it here.

One "reservation" I do feel from reading your story is that it does sound very similar to me to a few of my siblings who are "born again" Christians, and that aspect of religious "loving" is something I do not trust or feel is real coming from them and many others. Just my perspective here,

:hug:

DemEx
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Your right about the "born again" venacular.
I only use the sayings of Jesus because they are pertinent to the point I was making. I don't go to church, nor claim affiliation with any. In truth, I'm considered a pagan by their standards. However, just because they espouse to be followers of Christ doesn't make it so. If it were, I'm sure we would see a lot more of them being hung up on crosses, wouldn't we? He was crucified for his love(if you believe the story that is told). So don't get too hung up on the fact that I quote Jesus. I'm not trying to preach him, just understand what he meant when he said what he did. He's not my only source, but he's not a bad one.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Jesus is my most significant role model.....
and I do not attend church or practice religion either anymore....:-)

:hi:

DemEx

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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Something further
". . .I just don't see (feel) how anybody here on earth at this time could be so "selfless" to only give, except to one's babies, one's children growning up. . .and unconditional loving that I had NO trouble with."

"If you love those who love you, what reward do you have, do not even the publicans do the same?" Matt. 5:46.

When you love someone unconditionally it's like Desertrose said, your not attached to an outcome of expectation for reciprocation. If you are so attached it's conditional love because you want acknowledgement in return. The getting is contained within the giving. A joy that is felt for celebrating who that person is. A mutual dance that is performed because another has opened themselves up to the POTENTIAL for love. Undoubtedly there can be resistance along the way. Love requires trust. Trust can be scarey. Especially if your experience is one of abandonement, betrayal and abuse of trust. These experiences only serve to throw one in upon themselves. To do the work of healing and the reestablishment of what was taken. To come to terms with what it means to be born human. I spent the entire decade of my twenties doing a great deal of this work. I married for the first time at age 42. I have been married for six years and continue to be married. Although I am saddened that my wife can no longer accept the person I am and wishes to go her own way, does it change my love for her? No, only the love she felt she had for me. We still coexist together under the same roof, albiet in separate rooms. And what, on the one hand she says, and on the other she does I am finding are two different things. She is struggling with the daily reminder of the acceptance by which I live. Acceptance for me as well as her. I have just continued to live as I have always lived with no change in my actions towards her. I have only implemented the boundaries that she has claimed she wanted. And if no change is forthcoming on her part toward me, I will eventually move on. Regrettable it's true, but life is full of regrets. However, one less regret for not have given love a shot when it presented itself. Therefore, two lives are irrevocably changed for having the experience. Lessons and knowledge about the self are accomplished if one has a mind for it to be so.

And the dance continues.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Okay, I am in the minority here, but that is okay....
It seems to me this is something you have to do, spiritually speaking. And being a past-life regressionist, I think there is some karma going on here. Perhaps you have to atone for something in a past life....perhaps he has to atone for something. It could be any number of things, and you should be excited. It is good to work through your karma.

I also must say this....love is NEVER wrong. Love is the only thing worthwhile in this life. I don't mean obsessive, possessive relationships....that isn't love. But to want to give someone the gift of unconditional love is a wonderful thing, and I think you are a beautiful person. And loving someone unconditionally doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. There is a lot of joy in being the giver, and the nurturer.

Just listen to your inner voice, your God/Goddess self, and you will make the right decision.

Peace and Love!
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks for your input Punkingal!
Very beautifully stated and meaningful.


:hug:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think what you should do
is just have a quiet place to yourself and go and talk to your guides about this. See if they give you any indication on what you should do. I've learned from my personal experiences whenever I'm drawn to something or someone it's for a specific reason, so if you're feeling drawn to this person from your higher self you should listen. In the past when I didn't listen I always ended up kicking myself in the butt.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Well
that's kind of what I do when I do my tarot cards - I ask for their help and guidance - and believe me, I would have never guessed or imagined the outcome of the reading - I had thought about it but did I truly think it would happen? No way, not really. So the cards are my way of asking and the answer seems to be that "this (the above) situation" is what's going to happen. I guess how I deal with it is going to be the test.

Thank you very much for your input. Once again - I love all you guys and this forum!!! It always picks me up when I'm feeling low.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. How would you advise your best friend if she came to you with
this same scenario? I ask this because, for me sometimes, if I can "separate" myself from the conundrum, I can sometimes see the forest rather than just the trees.

You've received much great input here to which I cannot add much. Perhaps my little "exercise" will work for you as well.

I wish you luck, health, happiness, growth and peace with your decision.



:hug:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-26-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. My two cents. The choices you made in the OP regarding setting up
the story and the language you use seems to me to indicate that this is something you want to do. Love, learning, past life, or otherwise, you don't seem to have expectations of changing him, and that is good, as long as you're doing it for yourself. You clicked and want to see where it goes, so see. As long as you aren't expecting a committed, monogamous, relationship (that ain't gonna happen), I don't see that you're risking anything too significant, just keep your eyes open.
As to evolution, it might be helpful to yours and you can't do anything about his, so why worry about it? We waste so much of our lives worrying about stuff that doesn't happen, or that we can't do anything about if it does, that we frequently miss out on other things we later regret. You're both middle aged (like me) and you could die tomorrow, what would you think about this if you did? Would pursuing this cause you to miss out on anything else that may be going on in your life? Is supporting him going to cause you any hardship? Does it bother you that you make more money than him? Will your friends disapproval bother you?
If the answers to these questions is no, I say go for it. Just keep your eyes open and provide for the possibility that he's not as ethical as you might wish. Most importantly, Have Fun!
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