Regarding "Plastic Shaman", Kiesha Crowther, etc...

[devilgrrl]

Hi all, I recently found out about this woman Kiesha Crowther, who claims to be some sort of Native American shaman "grandmother". Honestly, I haven't a clue about anything regarding Native American spirituality but there is something about this woman that got my B.S. detector going. I did a little searching and found the following documentary regarding people that misrepresent Native American ceremonies and rites. Sadly, only parts 1 & 2 are posted...

White Shamans and Plastic Medicine Men

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCLmT_M-qtk

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPxoSp58pE

IMDb entry: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487178/

From what little I now know about the subjects at hand, I do believe that Ms. Crowther falls under the "Plastic" category.

More here:

http://newspaperrock.bluecorncomics.com/2011/01/kiesha-crowther-exposed-as-fraud.html


Just a word of warning for my spiritual friends.

Peace and blessings!

[OneGrassRoot]

1. There is something else that disturbs me....

I haven't watched the video yet, but as mentioned in the other thread, I also read quite a bit about Ms. Crowther toward the end of last year and came to a similar conclusion. I'm not one to believe what I read or watch until I really dig much deeper, but after spending time gathering info, I did indeed come to that conclusion.

Of course, this is nothing new. Whether it involves Native American wisdom or other spiritual paths, there are those who take advantage and why we all know we must use discernment. It's one of the reasons I may connect to a message but stay detached from the messenger and don't attend seminars or webinars that involve fees; something feels very off about the proliferation of "leaders" charging to hear their "wisdom." I read spiritual things as I do political things -- to be exposed to various insights and opinions. I pretty much rebel against anyone telling me what I should do or believe, whether it's people quoting the bible or a New Ager channeling something they tout as a truth for everyone. I'm surely not going to pay to hear it; I'm not sure I'll pay to read it any longer, either.

I realize we all must support ourselves, financially, in some way, and it's best (on all levels) to do so via our passions and gifts, if possible, so I'm really conflicted about this.

I'm going to say something really unpopular now but, for whatever reason, I'm compelled to finally say it out loud. ;)

Personally, I think it's all well and good for people to authentically engage in "sacred commerce" by using spiritual tools, be it readings of any sort, distance healing, etc. There are traditional and nontraditional methods of healing, and unless someone is proven to be fraudulent, who are we to judge what works for another? We must, of course, always use discernment, imho.

But the rise in the number "life coaches" over the last few years is astounding to me. My impression is that people are basically being paid to be a friend. Maybe it's the term "life coach" that puts me off; maybe if it were called something else it wouldn't bug me so much. I guess it's part of the whole reality TV trend that turns my stomach, and the many "motivational coaches" all around.

It just seems to be one more way people give away their power. We all have the wisdom within; why do so many pay others -- people who often don't have the resources to spend on such things -- to coach them?

Maybe I should look at it as another form of healing. Maybe then it wouldn't bother me so. The whole life coach and spiritual leader and motivational guide stuff really feels inauthentic to me, putting some people above others. Dear Goddess, everyone and their brother has written a book about their life wisdom; it seems to be approaching critical mass as far as the ratio of the number of books on this subject to the number of available readers...:rofl:

Seems to me we'd all be better served to look within and really listen to our inner voice rather than the cacophony of "wisdom" which surrounds us. That said, I realize some need guidance and encouragement to GET to the place of listening to that inner voice; that's where I'm conflicted about the various services offered.

Just sharing something that is really bugging me lately...

:shrug:

[get the red out]

2. What you say hits home with me!!!!!

I have always been weary of anyone who wears any kind of "Guru" status, no matter what that is called in their organization/culture/path. People are very willing to be followers these days, they almost demand someone tell them what to think and believe. I find myself recoiling from this attitude. Aren't we all writing our experience every day in the Akashic Records? No matter what I believe on any given day I feel that to be absolutely true! We aren't willing to listen closely enough to what we can connect to without human interference so we keep looking for some human to BE our inner voice from the outside. People with good intentions and bad step up to fill that void we create.

I have been a part of what is basically known as the "recovery world" for the past 18+ years and I have seen that it has become very popular there when a new person asks for help that a more experienced member then will take an iron-hand control of that person, rather than be a helper along their path (which I was taught was the intent years ago). The converse is that new people often EXPECT to be parented like a two year old rather than use the older member as a sounding board and voice of experience and will not seek assistance from someone that won't dictate their every move. I am not resonating with this at all and suffice it to say "I recoil from it as if from a hot flame".

I, personally, don't believe much in looking for "human powers" in spiritual matters, there is just something about giving my mind over to someone else that makes me turn that leader or master, sponsor or whatever totally off. I love learning from the experience of others, but we all have that to offer, not just a chosen few.

:rant:

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Every. Single. Word.

Yes!!!! Thank you for wording it so much better than I did. I agree with EVERY SINGLE thing you said here.

As always you provide so many good nuggets of non-guru wisdom ;)

"We aren't willing to listen closely enough to what we can connect to without human interference so we keep looking for some human to BE our inner voice from the outside."


"...new people often EXPECT to be parented like a two year old rather than use the older member as a sounding board and voice of experience and will not seek assistance from someone that won't dictate their every move."


"I love learning from the experience of others, but we all have that to offer, not just a chosen few."

BAM! :applause:

Thanks....:hug:

[Celebration]

4. I agree with both of you guys about gurus,

but the "life coach" is kind of a euphimism for lots of different things. It could or could not be helpful for a person, depending on the situation, and on the life coach.

I think that title is to get away from the idea of someone being "certified" in something else. This could be one example: Okay, people spend years and years becoming clinical psychologists, getting degrees, passing tests and getting certified. Yet some clinical psychologists are great and know what they are doing, and some do not. In fact, I will venture to say that a lot of people go into the field because they have so many issues. I've met some really bizarre control freaks that are licensed clinical psychologists. They are really expensive, and often not worth the money they charge.

Contrast *some* of them to someone who is NOT certified in anything, but who has been trained in applied kinesiology or even self taught in things like EFT. Suppose a person has a lot of great experience in Touch for Health, or had lots of seminars in various techniques, but nothing recognizeable as being able to be licensed in a state. They can be awesome at helping people with health issues. What are they going to call themselves? For years I went to an energetic practitioner. Now, she didn't call herself a life coach, but she probably should have. She ended up taking a "naturopathic" type coarse, and at one point put ND after her name. She would not have been allowed to do that in a state with NDs that had licenses. Even though she was awesome as an energetic practitioner, that ND thing really bothered me. I thought she should have been something like a life coach. All that aside, I think that lots of energetic practitioners really have no place to go with their knowledge other than to call themselves a "life coach." But a life coach can mean ANYTHING. I can imagine that some of them are the kinds of people that come into your house and make you get rid of things and clean your closet. Sure we all have that within ourselves to clean up our closets, but some people need some motivation. :rofl: So life coach can just mean "kick in the butt" too. I think of kick in the butt as an entirely different thing from a guru.

So, I don't put "life coach" into the same category as "guru" at all. I don't think life coach means anything in particular, just "Here I am. Can I help you?" That help, of whatever nature, could be invaluable, or it could be harmful. Again, I think of it as a sort of euphimism, as in "I don't have a license to do anything but I do do something."

[OneGrassRoot]

5. "I don't have a license to do anything but I do do something."

:rofl:

I hear you. I think it's the phrase that bugs me for some reason. "Life coach" is such a large term, in my mind, that it still comes across to me as though someone is on a pedestal of wisdom of sorts.

"I know so much about life that I can coach you about life."

That's a big task!

But I hear you about not having any other way to refer to themselves. Plus, the impact of being a life coach seems to have been diluted precisely BECAUSE there are so many these days.

Maybe we can think of other titles, a way to break it down?

Then again, as usual, this is probably one of those things (there are many, it seems) that only troubles me or gives me pause, but others don't blink an eye. (Although I do think many outside of ASAH-type circles do roll their eyes when they hear the term "life coach" now. That in and of itself is possibly a good reason for healers and practitioners and others skilled at...whatever...to refer to themselves differently, and perhaps with more specificity without being too limiting.)

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

6. I like "partner"....

It implies being on the same level, though understand we all have different strengths, skills and knowledge to offer one another.

Nutritional Partner

Motivational Partner

Organizational Partner

Eco-Wisdom Partner

Wellness Partner (actually, that feels like a whole new industry term that could be adopted, like MD, DC, DDS -- Jane Doe, Reiki (PW) Partner in Wellness; John Doe, Iridologist (PW), Partner in Wellness; Dandy Lion, Herbalist (PW) Partner in Wellness)

:rofl:

[Celebration]

8. "partner" sounds good

As long as you don't mind a partner giving a kick in the butt.

But it shouldn't be "life partner" (??)

The one thing I do like about a life coach (although I agree the name is a bit annoying) is that it sounds kind of wholistic. Some people are so immersed in their jobs and whatnot that they just haven't heard of a lot of stuff that is out there. So, suppose their kid has some kind of learning difficulty and they don't know where to turn! Well, a life coach most probably would or should know what kinds of resources are available in an area. I think of a *good* life coach as being a kind of coordinator. Maybe I like the term coordinator better than life coach. Maybe it is more like a friend who gives advice, but it just turns out that the person's advice is excellent (because they are used to various kinds of problems).

Life Coach IS a huge term, but one advantage to a life coach maybe is that they can see the "big" picture, whereas most people like doctors are so specialized that they can't take it all in.

My husband had to go to a neurologist once for terrible headaches that all had to do with his glasses not being right for computer work. If the person testing the eyes had been the same person who saw him for his headaches, the whole thing would have been so unnecessary. A life coach who dealt with health issues a lot could probably have spotted the issue. In other words, the life coach could fill in the gaps where the specialists leave off.

Honestly I don't even know any life coaches. Either they have not caught on here or I am out of the loop. Most likely, both. :rofl:

It is kind of a presumtious sounding title but I think of it as a catch all phrase. Life Partner sounds too much like a love relationship, hmmm, I don't know what would go with life?

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Well, that's kind of my point.....

That the word "life" wouldn't be used at all, because -- truthfully -- who can claim to be skilled and knowledgeable (don't coaches need to be one or the other) about ALL aspects of LIFE?

Be a coach or whatever you deem yourself regarding your speciality/specialties. LIFE...that's big.

I know the vast majority of people don't take on the term of "life coach" -- and AGAIN, it is used in many industries, not just spiritual/wholistic fields -- with a cloak of arrogance. As you said, it's kind of a default title when nothing else seems to fit.

I'm sharing my impression that 1) it's overused and 2) it's not really a fitting title for most who use it.

There are much more important things going on in the world than debating this term.

I felt compelled to share since it I was the one who originally posted the OP which triggered this OP, and it is something that has annoyed me for a while.

:hug:

[BanzaiBonnie]

12. Many truths spoken here and I appreciate that

And to reassure you, I take no offense at the previous opinions. I'd like to share my viewpoint.

As someone who really wrangled with what to put on my business card...

My business card says: Energy healing, psychic counselor, spiritual coach, tools for conscious living


I am NOT a healer. I open and hold the space for the person I'm working with to connect as fully as possible to their Source. Opening more to who they truly are enables them to tap into Source energy and the original perfect patterns for their life. I am only a facilitator.

In my practice as a psychic counselor, I bring forward information that the person usually already knows at some level. We all need confirmation of our innermost senses at some points, especially since our society teaches us to deny our inner knowledge.(Oh, you shouldn't feel like that.) Sometimes there are surprises that offer further valuable insights about people or situations. I have had many times experienced events and shared with those I'm working with and their immediate response was, "I was just seeing the same thing." Or "thinking the same thing."

That said, I am human and am fallible. I can feel when I'm getting in the way of a message and my own prejudices are coming up. That rarely happens anymore, especially as I learn to practice from a place of non-judgement.

As a spiritual coach, my goal is to help my client get clear on their beliefs. I help them as they explore internally, their core beliefs, what's useful, and what's not. I guide people as they transition from one place in their life where they carry that which was taught to them to the place of being comfortable exploring their own authentic self.

In my toolbox, I have tools from many traditions and directions to help in the path of becoming conscious. I've had many teachers. I'm meeting them all the time, everywhere <G>

One thing I always hold above all is to watch for dependency. I don't want anyone depending on my word. I encourage everyone to read many things and study with many teachers. It is my core belief that each person experience their life THEIR WAY. I can provide assistance along the way, including my service to the celebration of life.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. To me, that is brilliant.

"Energy healing, psychic counselor, spiritual coach, tools for conscious living"

The disclaimer here is WTF do I know beyond the fact that all of this is merely my opinion, based on my own personal experiences and observations. ;)

But it seems to me that you put a lot of time into considering what to put on your business cards, and I love what you chose. It is a very difficult thing to come up with a title for oneself, especially when we feel what we do can't be limited to a title.

That's why I also mentioned in my original reply upthread that I'm conflicted about it, as I know the term "life coach" (and other phrases as well are often used with good, humble intentions). It's simply a lack of other options that seem to fit.

"Spiritual coach." Your expertise is Spirituality, you're coaching about spirituality, which is one aspect of Life.

I kind of see myself as a bridge (maybe I can put that on business cards...lol) between the woo-woo community and others who would probably resonate with many approaches and beliefs but are turned off or frightened by the language.

I also have a rebellious side which stems from my experiences. While I feel the "woo-woo" community is a generally kind and open-minded community (and ASAH DEFINITELY is), I've experienced some of THE MOST VICIOUS PEOPLE emerge from an angelic facade when I've disagreed or asked questions. I've not accused them of anything (nor did I have that in mind); I simply asked how they KNOW something, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be true for everyone and it's met with a viciousness much worse than the most rabid teabaggers.

:rofl:

And these people are coaching and guiding others. Scary shit.

:scared:

[mysticalchick]

7. A life coach is not a paid friend ...

... said she who has had one for many years and has become more empowered as a result of it. I am all about owning the responsibility of my own power and, in my intuitive, work assisting others as they start moving into theirs. Not everyone wants that power ("with great power comes great responsibility") but for those who do, a coach is a wonderful option. My coach sees the bigger picture than I do sometimes mired in my own junk and offers me options on how to work through it on my own. She doesn't solve my problems nor does she attempt to and further, I do not want that.

Are there people who want others to tell them what to do? Yes. Absolutely. Are there others who know how to work alongside someone who can offer some illumination without dampening their own light? Yep.

The people I hang out with in the "woo-woo-world" are of high integrity and work to help others own their own power. Gurus they are not. :)

Just wanted to give a different perspective. Self-authority is key in any walk of life, IMO.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Yeah, I was afraid that would agitate you, MC.....

The first thing I'd like to clarify is that many who call themselves life coaches are NOT part of the woo-woo community.

When I use the term "guru" and "life coach," I'm not relegating it to the spiritual community AT ALL. It probably seemed that way because the post about Keisha Crowther prompted my reply. I was thinking of all the diet and exercise, financial, blah, blah gurus and, yes, life coaches.

I don't dispute nor doubt that most within the "woo-woo" world (remember, I'm one who loves the "woo" word) are of high integrity.

Actually, my personal experience over the last three decades is that the "woo-woo" community is reflective of the world at large when it comes to business and integrity. I think most people are good at heart and do work from a place of integrity.

I simply personally feel that phrase has come to be used as such an umbrella term that it's hard to know WHAT it means any more, and indeed many who use it are setting themselves up as gurus -- in all industries.

Maybe that's not your experience -- and specifically not within the woo-woo community -- but I've been observing it in many industries for years now, and that's the impression I've come away with.

The proliferation of the phrase "life coach" -- and the term itself -- just seems to be a disservice to all involved, imho.

Experience and skills vary, sure, and some are experts at things while others aren't and exchange services and products based on that.

But I don't see how one person can be a more valuable "life coach" -- such a generic, umbrella term -- than another, quite frankly.

So, all the woo-woo'ers reading this don't have to get their panties in a wad, 'cause I ain't dissing The Woo. I am dissing anyone, in any industry or profession, who positions themselves as having more innate wisdom wisdom than another.

Plus, it's my personal issue that I tend to loathe titles in general. I've never, ever known what to call myself, nor found anything I'm comfortable calling myself.

:hug:



edit for typos

[get the red out]

11. It's just that it's the "in thing"

I am never keen on the "in thing", and right now the term "Life Coach" is the in thing. I like "Mentor" more because it implies to me someone that has walked the same path just a few steps ahead.

I have encountered folks that set themselves up as "Guru's" along the way and to me they are in a category all their own. To me someone who is a Mentor or a trusted guide will be more "walk with me" not "do as I say".

[mysticalchick]

15. Smoochies to you!

:) I know your heart is always with the Woo. :) I think I would agree with you in many respects - but there are charlatans everywhere. I'm not big on titles either; they don't impress me at all.

Love you, OGR! Thank you for your response!

[OneGrassRoot]

16. Smoochies back, girlfriend!

:loveya:

:hi:

[WhiteTara]

13. What you say resonates with me, but I met her

and I believe her sincerity. This is my experience.

Okay, I was there by "accident" I had no idea of the date significance, but it was a weekend workshop with open talks by a lot the speakers. I went for the talk by Melissa Claire who is a Sufi studying with someone named Cowan who invokes the Plant Devas. There was a woman who has written lots of books about aliens whose name I don't recall and several others. Kiesha was the key note speaker and I had heard lots about her so I went to her open talk. She talked about her background in detail, her molestation by her male relatives (I think she lived on or near a reservation) and how and why she was "chosen" by her Sioux relatives. She apologized for not really knowing how to be a speaker in the accomplished sense. She talked in general about the earth changes, etc. Basically it was the same talk she gave in Switzerland. She cried a lot during her talk. (I remember when I first became a speaker in women's circles and the emotion of even speaking made me cry. I thought to myself, I'm glad I didn't pay to spend the weekend crying/watching her cry.) She talked about the ritual/ceremony she was preforming the following morning which was open to all. Of course, I was intrigued...I was going to be part of 10:10:10:10! whatever that meant! woohoo!

Anyway, the next day was 10:10:10:10:10 and she had come to replace a crystal in the earth. She had been sent to the Ozark mountains, which is the oldest mountain range in the US. Each one of the 12 elders were replacing crystals in other places in the world to reawaken/give strength to Mother. I'm not sure who the other "indigenous elders", does anyone else here know that part? Again, anyway, the crystal she was placing was to represent the Divine Feminine. It was a small crystal and she did a lot of praying and crying. Then she offered sacred smoke to each participant of about 60 people and she looked in each of our eyes and said a small prayer. During this time she had a young woman who was acting as a ceremonial helper (I couldn't tell if she was a traveling companion or someone from the community) stand behind her in case she fell down from all the smoke. She did seem very woosy after about 1/3 of the circle and was quite pale, but she completed the circle with great intensity. There was much more ritual which she had begun exactly at the stroke of time. Then when it came time to offer the crystal back to the earth, she cut herself with a knife. I found this very disturbing, because during her talk she kept saying we needed to return to the "old" ways. To me, that meant she should have used her "wise" blood from her menstrual cycle, not mutilate herself. I have wanted to write to her about this ever since the ceremony. But, instead I'm writing about it here because of the conversation. The part I liked was when she chose people in the community to be the keepers of the crystal because they seemed to be empowered by the privilege of holding Mother sacred.

Now, on to plastic shamans. She could very well be one. A true plastic shaman is that Ray guy who killed those people in Arizona at $10 thousand a head. But yes, any time you give your power to someone else, you are taking it away from yourself. When I was in codependents anonymous, I remember one day in a place of great despair, I cried out in the meeting "Someone tell me what to do!" and the room was so still. I cried, looked around and realized, "I have to tell me what to do." It was profound and I am crying as I type these words now. It sure is hard to be a human.

But, here we all are! :grouphug:

[OneGrassRoot]

14. ....

you have me :cry: too

:hug: :hug: :hug:

When I was in codependents anonymous, I remember one day in a place of great despair, I cried out in the meeting "Someone tell me what to do!" and the room was so still. I cried, looked around and realized, "I have to tell me what to do." It was profound and I am crying as I type these words now. It sure is hard to be a human.

Wow, I so feel you here, WhiteTara. And it IS so hard to be human. I find myself saying that, and writing it, all the time....this human thing is soooooooo hard.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

:loveya:

[Matariki]

18. That set off my BS detector too.

My immediate thought was that she wasn't Native American and that she didn't have actual lineage in any Tribe's shamanic tradition. But I didn't care enough to research it. Interesting to see that my gut feelings were on target though...