Would you please do me a favor?

[LiberalEsto]

Plsease tell me if I was out of line here. I posted this in response to another post in GD:

"We, the Sheeple

are so numbed up on Prozac and imbecilic tv programs, so pacified by computer games and electronic toys, and so filled with corporate propaganda that it's not likely to happen. Unfortunately."

It was concerning a post about whether Americans would rise up like the French.

Someone took umbrage and accused me of insulting people who use antidepressants.

I replied that I use antidepressants myself and they've been a lifesaver for me. The other poster and I went back and forth a few rounds, and finally I expressed annoyance. saying that I'd been a DU member since 2002, but have noticed just during the past year that people have become nitpicky and politically correct about the slightest things. I didn't accuse the poster directly - I used I-messages. The other person started accusing me of violating several DU rules and reiterating that I had insulted people who used antidepressants. In no way did I put down the other person for not being a member as long; in fact I have no idea how long the person's been on DU and don't care.

I feel as though just about anything I post these days gets jumped on. And honestly, I don't think a post like mine would have been attacked in past years, which is all I was trying to say when I mentioned how long I'd been a member. I'm very unhappy with the way DU seems to be going.

LibE

GHere's the rest of the thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9359767

[Kookaburra]

1. LibE

A word to the wise: Put that person on "ignore". It'll do wonders for your blood pressure.

You and I, and most sane people, know you didn't mean anything disparaging to folks who take anti-depressants, but your "buddy" was out looking for a fight and found one.

Ignore, Ignore, Ignore. I love that option.

Hugs, my friend. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

:hug:

[LiberalEsto]

3. I did that. already

Thanks for suggesting it, though.

[Fire1]

2. Personally, I see nothing wrong in your post. Of course, I guess

mine regarding O'Donnell belonging in an institution with a cell next to Palin was overlooked yesterday. I was waiting for a similar response to my post.

[LiberalEsto]

4. Thanks

Why do you think people have gotten so argumentative over in GD. I can't figure it out.

[Myrina]

20. Don't know, but if it's any consolation ...

... someone actually tried to pick a fight withe me a few months back because I said that I would never buy a Kindle or I-Pad because I prefer the feel and smell of a good, solid, old book. Seriously. A fight? Over that??

Some people I think are just really dissatisfied and frustrated with the states of their lives and other stressors and don't know how to deal/vent.

I had to laugh her off and just left the thread.

:shrug:

[Fire1]

21. I hear ya. Life is waaaay to short for that shit. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. We likely won't rise up like the French, sadly.

And regarding GD and GDP, I am reminded of a South Park episode where a group of people were wired up to see what offends them (or not), and a couple of people were offended by words like "chair", IIRC.

Something will always offend someone. How deeply we buy into it is what's important...

:hug:

[bigmonkey]

6. I often challenge posts like yours, to tell the truth.

I try to be civil. Here in ASAH, maybe I can ask you, calmly, what your goal is in your post. In my mind, I categorize posts like yours in an "Oh woe! All is lost!" category. Is a post like OP here just a lament, looking for a sympathetic ear? I really wish I could understand.

It's not the "accuracy" of the post that bothers me, it's the discouraging effect it has on some people. It has a discouraging effect on me, personally. My feeling is that the number of people who are roused to action by a lament like this is likely less than the number of people who are discouraged by it. I'm basically feeling that the effect is a net negative from a political point of view.

Can we talk? :-)

[LiberalEsto]

11. It's true that I'm feeling pretty negative lately

I had no intention of discouraing people; I was expressing my cynicism and lack of hope for this country because I'm afraid the corporations are going to win.

I'm not asking you to feel sorry for me, but in all honesty I'm so depressed that I'm barely hanging on. Unemployed for 2 years, my career (newspaper journalism) vanished, taking several medications, no hope of work as far as I can see, unable to get an agent to even look at a synopsis for a children's book I wrote, and a lot more that I won't get into. My life is stuck. DU used to be a lifeline for me during the B*sh administration, but much of it has become uptight and downright nasty. And that depresses me even further.

[bigmonkey]

12. Jeez. Sorry you're having such a hard spell.

I guess I always feel (have felt since a little child, actually) that fear is a trap. I'm old enough to have grown up in the period when you were encouraged(!) to feel that the world could end in 20 minutes. I think right now we're all trying to think of what to actually do to improve the situation, and that leads to the kind of sectarian conflicts that even split up congregations.

I have no idea if this will help, but the thing that got me through the Bush years at their worst was a personal interpretation of something I read: "You can't just roll over and die, you have to make them kill you." I think we're fighting a war of attrition, personally, a kind of a siege, and the main danger in that is giving up, shrugging your shoulders, and letting the enemy escape. That's how I see it.

I really sympathize with the need to express yourself, though. I wish I could help.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. I'm so sorry....

Times are so hard. It truly is hard to stay positive. Please know you're not alone. My thought is that when we have a hard time staying positive, we can take comfort that others here...in soul groups like this...are maintaining The Positive for us, until we can feel it again.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[PhillyGurl]

27. You wrote the truth

After I came back to the US, I decided I did NOT want to be part of corporate anything in America - it's all such bullshit. So I went to school, got a certificate in massage therapy, am getting ready to take the national exam. It's been touch and go for me for a year too, I feel like there is nothing solid beneath me - and it is frightening. The only thing that has kept me grounded is my massage coop, and I find on days I receive massage I am a whole lot less depressed, and feel more optimistic.

Wouldn't it be great if people could get massaged a couple times a week instead of taking a pill for depression? So many people are lonely, stressed out, touch deprived. It's a basic human need, and the lack of it makes so many people ill (from an emotional and physiological standpoint). There is a very deep theme here for me, I am still exploring. Stay tuned.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. What an awesome post...

I really appreciate your honesty and respectfulness.

Authentic discussions are so rare...

:thumbsup:

:hug:

[eilen]

7. I am pretty used to it

and have taken to piss people off on purpose by pushing their buttons when I see them whine in the manner you have illustrated. The problem with most of them is they are so self righteous and need to have the last word. I do this in the hopes they put me on ignore so I don't have to deal with their neuroses in the future.

I've been called a "terrible person" because I said that some three year olds act like little assholes. Which they do. In fact, if they weren't three and were adult age, there would be a story about them on GD getting record recommendations. I've been three, I had a child who was 3 once. We all have had our moments.

Then there was the time I somehow insulted someone's developmentally disabled child by stating that listening to the Senator from Maine's voice was annoying.

I think they are freaks. There is no accounting for what it takes for some humorless internet viewer to work up into a major poutrage.

[MorningGlow]

8. Shit-stirrers

They do it because they enjoy it--all of it--getting a rise out of people, starting an argument whereby they can "slay" the enemy (in their own minds, they are brilliant debaters who trounce their opponent every single time--in their own minds being the operative phrase here ;) ). You did nothing wrong, LE. Some folks just camp out on DU looking for stuff to get their poutrage on about (ooh that was some bad preposition flinging there, but you get the idea).

I have been accused of being a bigot, a man-hater, and a homophobe--maybe racist too. I forget. Just goes to show how you can never, EVER know anyone on the other end of the intertubes, as I am none of those things and never have been.

As to your question downthread about why they do it...I don't think it's just DU. I was listening to Stephanie Miller yesterday morning and one of her guests, Candy Crowley, I think, said in response to the question "Why are tea partiers so angry?" (and I think this applies here as well), "Lots of people are angry (at the state of the country), but they don't know who to be angry at."

So much rage and frustration, and so few angry and frustrated people who don't have coping mechanisms for it all. So they lash out--unfortunately at their own.

Doesn't make it any less puzzling and hurtful when you're on the receiving end of it, though, huh? :hug:

[LiberalEsto]

9. Thanks, MG

I see so much of this that it makes me wonder whether at least a couple of them are trolls whose purpose is to hijack threads and damage discourse on DU. But maybe I'm being too paranoid...

[MorningGlow]

10. Oh, I think you're absolutely correct

I've been on here for years, and I've come to the conclusion that there are certain individuals who seem to exist for no other reason than to start arguments all over the place. One of my favorites behaves as though s/he is a character in Argument Clinic, the famous Monty Python sketch. No matter what anyone says, that person counters with brilliant bon mots such as "No it isn't" and "You're wrong".
:rofl:

[OneGrassRoot]

14. +1000....and hugs for you, LiberalEsto!

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[laylah]

13. LibE...

I agree with what you wrote and, being on meds myself, I take no offense. I have been here almost since the inception of DU and the changes are dramatic. I rarely venture into GD, I am too thin skinned for the hatefulness, bad juju I feel there.

I am sorry you had to experience that :hug:

Jenn

[seabeyond]

17. from there spiritual perspective, i have my issue with depression drugs and how we use

them today.

not to mention the other issue you discussed.

but i dont share my perspective on perscription drugs for depression. there are reasons people use them. valid reason. life saving reasons. but i do believe they cover the healing, like asprin does with a headache. so it does not address the real issue. and like stopping the pain for a headache, sometimes it is vital and necessary to merely "mask" the pain of the problem for a while.

the thing

when discussing this with people, it is a sensitive place and open for a feel of attack, not acceptance.

so i dont do it.

but i hear ya

[Celebration]

18. In the health group once

I was accused of being racist because I said that people in Mexico generally have darker skin than people in the United States.

:rofl:

Bottom Line: There are some nutty people here, just like in the real world.

[BlueIris]

19. Yes, I think you were a bit insensitive with your slag on people who use meds.

Which is surprising to me, considering that you admit they saved your life.

[liberalmuse]

22. Sounds like something I'd post.

I don't see where you are dissing antidepressants. Like a lot of people, I've been on them and had to go on them for a few months after Dean lost the primary, and they helped a lot. I also have close friends and family they've helped, and they are definitely not sheeple. These days, it's easy to offend people. Times aren't easy, and skins are getting thinner. To be honest, you did not imply people on antidepressants were apathetic, but if someone took it that way, then that is really their issue, isn't it?

[SheilaT]

23. Had I seen that post

I'd have probably pointed out that somewhat fewer than everyone takes anti-depressants. Yes, they can be lifesavers, and yes, many people do take them, but some of us don't. Heck, I suspect that more than a majority of people don't take them.

I often object to posts that essentially say we all deserve the shit that has happened to this country because of this or that. Such as, we elected W and so we deserved him. Well, I didn't vote for him, and I did protest against the war in Iraq for about a year, and so I absolutely refuse to take on any personal responsibility for that war.

[davsand]

24. We live in a drug oriented culture. Of COURSE we are all anesthetized!

Look, I'm not gonna touch the whole discussion about drug therapy for professionally diagnosed issues--because I expect there isn't a person here who has not benefited at some point from modern pharmacology. What I do find disturbing, however, is the societal attitude that if you throw enough chemicals at something you can help it. Fa-gedda-bout any other issues those drugs may cause (cue the quiet voice that delivers that obligatory message in all the commercials that says something like, "side effects may be mild and may include anal leakage or constipation along with a change in mood or an increase in desire to kill yourself...)

We (collectively) pump chemicals into our systems with zero regard for what they will actually DO to us. Frankly, I have thought for quite some time that the lack of political interest (let alone will!) is probably symptomatic of a bunch of really out of touch people with just too much of a chemical load to process the facts.

Having offered up a criticism of our collective drugged state, I will also have to admit that the DU we have now is light years away from the community that was here back in the very early days. This used to be a haven, and now there are entire forums I just can't stand to read. What was that old song cliche'? Call someplace paradise and kiss it good bye...

Hang in there. Stupid is legion, and there has to be somebody left to point that out sometimes.



Laura

[LiberalEsto]

25. Thank you ALL for such thoughtful responses

Whether we agreed with each other or not, I was thrilled to see such a reasonable, civil discussion taking place. Everyone had something equally valid to contribute.

Although my GD post was not intended to hurt anyone's feelings about using meds, I will be more careful about such generalizations in the future. When I wrote it, I figured that since making a sweeping statement about meds didn't bother me, even though I take them, it probably wouldn't bother others. I was wrong.

I do think that a number of GD participants could benefit from practicing mindful breathing and calming down a wee tad.

:grouphug:

[MorningGlow]

26. Another thought

Hi LE--just thought of something else that plagues GD, and it manifested in the negative responses to your comment: literal-mindedness. When I read your comment, I immediately understood that you were not saying that Prozac is bad and "everyone in the world" is on Prozac; instead, you were using it as a creative reference, along with TV shows, computer games, and toys, to illustrate (SYMBOLICALLY) that people are numb to the world, preferring the current versions of bread and circuses that don't require them to think or participate in the world outside.

Too many argumentative people jump on a literal interpretation of a comment in order to puff themselves up full of poutrage. Even if they know that the poster didn't mean it literally. Because it's more fun to act all indignant and poke someone else with a stick in order to get a good shitstorm going. Perhaps it's their desire for an adrenaline rush--who knows?

Actually I'm surprised that some other literal-minded person didn't come at you with the argument "I DON'T WATCH IMBECILIC TV! I'M INSULTED!!!!"
:rofl: