Let's talk about material things/monetary wealth for a moment

[MorningGlow]

Hola my bruthas and sistas; this is an issue that has been rattling around in my brain for some time: material things and monetary wealth.

I've been ruminating on it because I've been losing sleep over our financial problems for a long time. To be perfectly frank, we are $30,000 in debt--if I include what we still owe on Mr. MG's car loan, $34,000. (That's not counting our mortgage, because to me that's like death and taxes--unavoidable.)

The lion's share of the family income goes toward paying these debts each month. I handle the household budget (such that it is) and write the checks, while Mr. MG toils on, oblivious as to where the money goes and curious as to why our income never seems to make a dent in these debts. But he just lets me handle it--hence my sleepless nights.

Anyway, I was thinking about all the different spiritual philosophies regarding money/wealth/stuff: On the one hand we're taught that all we need to do is ask for something, and we will receive it. But then again, we're also advised that we have to take action, or the universe can't help us. Then AGAIN, there's that underlying bugaboo that the universe doesn't deal in material things and we should be glad we have our health and a roof over our heads and stop asking for stuff/money, because it is literally immaterial and besides so many other people are worse off. And then there's manifestation/the Secret stuff, where we are never denied what we ask, but we have to successfully visualize it in order to get it. And then there are the wags/smartasses/assholes out in the non-ASAH world who ask why psychics aren't able to pick winning lottery numbers.

Have I left anything out?

As for me, I don't know what to believe anymore. No, that's not true. I BELIEVE I would sleep better if we got rid of our outstanding debts. I BELIEVE I can ask for peace of mind...but then again, I'm not sure I can say, "Hey universe, can I have $30,000 drop out of the sky, with no strings attached?" Or maybe that's the problem. Is it because I still carry the Catholic "God won't give you cash" guilt in some form that keeps me from manifesting it? Or do I simply not believe that I can get a bag of cash without somebody dying or getting maimed in exchange?

Yeah, this is me thinking out loud as I try to unravel what I believe about material wealth. In the meantime, share your thoughts. How do you view manifesting "stuff" and/or cash?

[OneGrassRoot]

1. I have zero thoughts...

Cause this is how my brain is right now: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :wtf: :eyes:

HOWEVER, I know I will have coherent thoughts, which I can put into coherent form, soon.

For now, I wanted to give you many, many :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I dare say financial stressors plague most of us here, and are a source of chronic stress, which affects us physically, emotionally, mentally....EVERY way.

Not fun.

:(

[davsand]

2. I ask for "enough."

I dunno, I guess that has worked well enough that we have not lost our house and most weeks I can manage to buy decent food for the family table. For that I am grateful. However, hubby's job is getting cut to half time starting July One, and I am scared beyond shitless by this. I am trying really hard to let go of my fear about money and having enough of it (or not) but this kind of thing just rocks my Taurus boat awful hard. I have been in knots since this all hit.

Hubby, on the other hand, is not acting a bit nervous. He's the eternal optimist, and in some ways I have resented him for NOT going into the same kind of panic I am feeling. Just last night I was (admittedly) busting his chops about how laid back he's been about finding a job to fill in the missing income. I felt like an asshole, but I literally am awake at night worrying about this stuff.

I have tried the affirmation stuff, and I have tried the manifestation stuff, and it just has not been successful. I joke that I may have to start selling body parts to pay the bills, but the chances of winning a lottery are pretty durn slim. I always kinda figured any divine intervention was probably gonna be reserved for the really serious life and death stuff--but I am literally starting to wonder if it is gonna get to that point.

I'm sorry, MG, I am fresh outta answers for you. I'm waiting to see what counsel the others here can offer up.


Laura

[Kind of Blue]

5. MG, I agree with Davsand about "enough.".

I finally worked my way out of never having enough to the point of becoming utterly grateful and satisfied with what I have. Then I noticed occurring what I needed when I needed it = enough, an answer was always there either through my doing or miraculously from outside. Too many examples to give to know that this works and works to bring the best surprises. The last one, a second car after having to give up our other one last year. I rationalized, it's okay because I work at home and I have the other one when I really need it. Then this one manifested last month out of the blue. We were like, how did that happen - we'd totally gotten use to one car, didn't ask for another, wasn't even thinking about it.

I wish I could take it to the next step and ask for More. But enough is where I am and I'm not sure if I could handle More. But I start with satisfaction/contentment of what's real in my life, while working through difficulties. It's constant pivoting from negative to positive thoughts, grounding, context that this too will pass, and right now everything is okay - lots of love, relatively good health for me, husband, step-daughter - extended family everywhere, and other good things that are real.

It just seems to me keeping the spirit high on all the good stuff that are tangible and intangible keeps a door open that continues the flow of enough. I'm a believer that keeping feelings neutral on needs and wants is key in manifesting.

If you haven't read Ken Keyes' Handbook to Higher Consciousness, I highly recommend it because it was the beginning of my journey of really manifesting enough.

[Celebration]

3. you have to simulataneously

Care about your manifestation, take physical action to make it real, and let go of the actual end result.

Easy, huh?

:rofl:

Or, you can try putting an "8" on your computer and/or in your wallet. And say an affirmation. "I easily pay my bills, and have plenty left over." And not get greedy about it. I haven't tried this last thing, but that is a a numerology (Glynnis McCants) thing.

None of this will actually work if you get "attached" to money, I don't think.

I'm not Catholic, but I have a little bit of the Catholic guilt thing anyway. If I'm so great at manifesting, shouldn't I manifest something else first? However, I sort of got over that once I thought of the You Tube clearings I put up. That resolved a bit of the "unCatholic" guilt. I don't do too much of all this manifesting $$, but it turns out that my success rate is pretty good.

You could try using mrt or a pendulum on the one arm bandits, LOL.

I don't do that. You just have to find your comfort zone. And good luck. :hi:

[elleng]

4. May or may not be helpful,

but think of ONE action you can take to 'relieve' the burden, like, negotiating with one creditor for some relief, and act, like make the phone call. ACTING, however small, helps me.

[kimmerspixelated]

6. Well, your situation describes mine as well.

Except my hubby is not easy going about it, so there is a lot of tension. I have had all of your thought sequences, too, and on good days I seem to have the flow of belief. I actually look at the little steps along the way a little closer. They seem to make a difference for big changes. If the money could flow from a place of labor of love, I think that is the key, and multiple streams of income, too. That way, not too much is placed on any one thing. A balance?
But thanks for sharing. I hope our money karma changes.:hi:

[eilen]

7. Hi and hugs to you

We had big debt like that before and it is stressful because all you want is to be free of it. Every day you think about things you can't do or can't have because of this debt. I've been there. Our debts are paid now, except the mortgage and we've gotten that paid ahead a bit. Some of the relief came in the form of inheritances, tax refunds and some big overtime jobs. Before it was all paid off, I pretty much had let go of it living in my head. I say to myself "I have everything I need" a lot. Sometimes I want something and buy it but I am still trying to learn to be very happy instead of guilty about it.

Mostly, I set up online bill paying and have automatic payments going through. I don't obsess over it. When I got some extra money, I used it for the smallest size bill until it was paid off. I didn't buy new clothes unless it was totally necessary-- cutting down on expenses. It still sucked getting hit with all the big bills like car repairs and stuff.

I had a friend who's family were real big "Abundance" type Christians. They had one daughter in college, another heading there and a beautiful home in a new development. Her husband kept asking God for more money. I asked her if God gave him what he asked. She said God told him he had enough money so they sold their big beautiful house and bought a small one in an older community (that turned out needing lots of work). I asked her why they bought that one and she was pretty certain that that was the one God wanted them to have. It turned out they had plenty of money for the renovations/repairs needed, they got rid of lots of stuff and were able to send their kids off to college and not go into debt.

Now, I'm not of the belief that God is so personally interested in my private financial affairs to that degree. So I guess you have to figure out what works for you.

FWIW, we don't have a big new home or late model vehicles, stunning wardrobes and beautiful furnishings. Lifestyle wise, we roll working-class/early attic-- not far above student.

[northernlights]

8. back in 94-94 when I was laid off

after having saved 10% of my income for 9 years, I had a negative net worth of about $20-30K as a result of the condo-collapse.

I did Louise Hay-style affirmations, writing "I have all the money I need and want to do the things I want to do" dozens of times/day, over and over on paper. Many hundreds of times over the course of 18 months. One day, while meditating, I thought "I'm ready to go back to working fulltime now, for 3 or 4 months anyway." I let go of the thought, and continued on with my no-thought meditation. Exactly 1 week later, I got a call for a contract job -- 3 months on-site at double my previous pay. After I was in the job, it stretched out to 4 months. I had the thought that I wouldn't mind it turning more permanent -- a couple weeks later my boss went out on medical leave never to return. I stepped into the job. After the first year, my hourly rate increased and, with extra hours, I was now making 3 times my former salary. I paid down my mortgage. I bought a brand spankin' new honda civic (still driving it at 194K miles). I paid off my mortgage. My savings grew.

And then it all blew apart, a chunk at a time. I've gone from a net worth of about a quarter million that I earned and saved myself, to considerably less that that. I've also gone from a six figure income to a 4 figure income.

I don't have any answers. I was the *same* person the day before my income doubled and tripled as the day after. I am the *same* person today, at 12 bucks/25 hours/week as I was at $100/hour/50 hours/week.

The one thing I didn't try, at least for the amount of time I did before, was the affirmations. Don't know if there's a relationship there or not.

The only other thing is I tend to be very frugal. If I can't afford it cash, I can't afford it. Yes, I use credit cards, but pay them off every month. My first mortgage was the only long term debt I took on in 35 years, until I took on the student loans.

My next big splurge will be on a "hot pot" solar cooker. I plan to spend my 6 week break from school learning to cook with free energy. If I succeed, I'll splurge and get their camp cooker so I can make bread and pancakes too.

Another thought, though, is that there is individual CYOR and there is group CYOR. Right now, in the group CYOR, there is a general poverty consciousness. It's very, very difficult for individuals to break out of group CYOR, imho...:hug:

[mysticalchick]

9. Mentioned this before

... but I've been working with Andrea Hess's Money Manifesting Mastery and have had success with it ... you can read about my work on it at my personal blog (http://snarkypants.com/category/general/manifesting-in-3d/).

Here's an excerpt of what I wrote:

Basically, it’s this: In order to manifest money (which is really just energy), you have to assign it an energetic address. For example, let’s say that you want to manifest $1000 and have said that this amount of money in your bank account would make you feel relieved, or joyful or whatever emotion you choose. Once you’ve figured that part out, then you have to do some real down-to-earth things to bring that energy into your life more.

So, if you’ve chosen joy as your energetic address, you start to think of things that make you feel joyful – that bring more joy into your life. And you do as many of those things as you can. That lifts you automatically into that energy. And since you’ve said $1000 = joy, then those dollars will come through. The hitch is – you have to do the real life actions to create that energetic state for yourself to attract the money.

There's also a piece about what happens when YOU change your vibration and your environment doesn't - called dissonance. I write about that here:

One of the key components (energetically speaking, of course) of the manifesting process is dealing with dissonance. Lemme ’splain: When you make a conscious effort to shift your vibration to something different, the environment around you remains in the same vibration you were previously. It has to. You created it, after all. According to Andrea Hess, everthing from your house, to your job, to your relationships, to your bank account reflects your current vibration. So, you come along and have raised that vibration consciously. You are no longer a perfect match for all those circumstances that are in your life and as you may know, two unlike vibrations cannot get exist in the same space without some serious fireworks going on. Those fireworks can come in all kinds of packages: delays, irritating situations, annoying rude people, projects that fall through, sudden bouts of negative thought and emotion, recognition of self-sabotage and on and on. It’s easy for me to downshift into the other vibration (and lowering mine) to accomodate this disharmony. I do it much more than I am even aware of doing.

The difficulty when learning to manifest is staying afloat in your new vibration and ride the waves of the dissonance. It’s much harder than you think. This is why the excitement you feel after going to a weekend workshop, coming home with a million new ideas and plans, wears off pretty quickly with no change in your life at all. It’s because you switched vibrations and couldn’t maintain that once you’re back in your own familiar one. This has happened to me so many times. It’s really disheartening. But if you just wait it out a bit, hold your vibration and stay the course, you can let it wash over you with minimal discomfort. Most times, it just requires a negotiation of some sort (especially if it’s impacting a relationship) but there are occasions where the lower vibrational state cannot stay. And you have to make a choice to hold your own vibration and keep moving or fall back into one that existed before you switched up. Andrea suggests you keep track of all of these things that come up during your month so you can easily see how that dissonance shows up for you.

I have been mulling over doing a free one month long study group of this work to see how I can help others with putting it into practice. If you're interested in that, let me know. (Via skype, I'm thinking)

It works IF YOU DO THE WORK. That's how I met my goal in the Readings for Hope project. :)

[Kind of Blue]

10. I'd love to try this MysticalC!

I want to consciously try for a specific amount, as well as move from Enough to More that I Can handle.
Thanks for the link! :)

[glinda]

11. Debt has been a great source of being depressed and low energy for me. I worry all

the time and fear I will have no funds if a pet gets sick. Which is often after they ate poisoned pet food.
I am now selling everything and anything in our home that is not bolted down with the exception of some family things and a few choice items... which may go also at some time.
This is freaking my husband out but in order to get my energy back and in place....I must get rid of. Less clutter equals more room to breath.

[JanusAscending]

12. I think I am going to start doing the same thing!

My daughter told me she got me a digital camera, and is getting a connector for my "dated" computer to upload the pics. Once I get it, I'm going to start taking pics of things to sell and post them on Craigs List and EBay. I have some lovely to "look at " things that are of no use to me anymore. I never have visitors, so who cares ? Less for me to move when I get into Sr. housing. I can use the cash more right now!! (Less stuff to clean and collect dust.) I have a collection of Cherished Teddies with original boxes that I need to take down from their special shelf and start cleaning the dust and cigarette smoke off. LOL

[glinda]

14. Funny. Market is very bad for some things right now and will continue to get worse.

I would suggest a combination of actual auctions, rummage sale, Craig's List and Ebay. That is what we are doing.
About the Sr. thing. My parents are living in their house full of stuff and they can no longer find things nor clean it all. I don't want that to happen to us.

[JanusAscending]

17. I would be in the "SR. thing"

right along with your parents. I've been wanting to get rid of "stuff" for a long while now, so my kids don't have to do it for me.

[NJCher]

13. negotiation and promotion

See if you can negotiate some of the creditors down. Seriously, a lot of people are doing it and getting some breaks. You have to have some reason, though, and that could be job loss or divorce or something along that line.

Another way is to think about yourself as being needed out there by somebody. Your special talents could change someone's life for the better. Maybe your writing is able to showcase someone's business or occupation in just they way they need it. When you think of your services this way, it's easier to get out and look for higher payer, more prestigious work.

I have others but I can't think of them all right now. I might be back.


Cher

[MorningGlow]

15. Checking in and new experience today

Hey everyone--sorry if I left this thread hanging! Didn't mean to--just been busy (my speech on 2012 is tomorrow--yikes!)

Thanks to everyone for responding, and thanks for all the suggestions about managing debt. Believe me, I am doing everything in my power to cut down on our expenses, and we certainly don't purchase anything frivolous or throw money away in any way. I guess I was just trying to figure out the manifestation end of it--the spiritual side more than the money-management side.

And a big :grouphug: to everyone else who's having a tough time of it lately. Sometimes I wonder if it's a lesson for all of us--you know, to get used to "a new paradigm" (hate that catchphrase) where monetary wealth won't be the most important thing in the world in the near future. (Note that I'm not talking about an economic collapse where banks all die off and paper money is worthless--y'all know that I have higher hopes for our future than all those "the end is near" prophecies! :P )

I had another experience regarding money today, which has kept the topic at the forefront of my mind. As some of you might remember, I did a fairly large freelance job last summer for a local community college. They liked my work and invited me to bid on the same job for this year. The bid I submitted this year was a bit higher than last year's, because they want more pieces written than last year.

I didn't get the job. And the editor (a nice lady) said it wasn't because of my writing abilities, but instead because my bid was too high. Well--let me rephrase that--because someone else's bid was lower--apparently a lot lower...? :shrug: My bid was very fair and was estimated accurately from last year's experience, and I definitely wouldn't have done it for cheaper (my estimate was already as low as I could go judging by the hours I put in last year). And hey, ya gets what ya pay for. ;)

So there's a chunk of change out the window. But you know what? I'm actually relieved! I thought about why I wasn't disappointed, and I realized that although the editor was nice, the job was tedious and very time consuming, and if I had to be totally honest with myself, I didn't REALLY want to do it again. Plus the due dates for the job would coincide with a LOT of stuff I'm going to be doing this summer, not the least of which is volunteering at MG Jr's Cub Scout day camp and taking him to swimming lessons, in addition to our annual trip to California to visit my brother and his family.

Lesson? Yeah, there's a need for money, but sometimes the need for peace of mind is greater.

On top of that, I'm trying to pay attention to messages from the universe, and I was hit with a big one on Tuesday. My cousin and his wife were making their annual summer drive from their home in Ohio to my aunt's house in the Thousand Islands, and as usual they stopped overnight at my mom's house to break up the drive. My cousin's wife mentioned that she takes thyroid medication, so my mother gave her a copy of that recent essay I wrote for a thyroid Web site (if y'all remember that one). After my cousin-in-law read it, she asked my mother if I ever considered writing a novel, because I "SHOULD BE WRITING!" And she wants to talk with me about that sometime.

When my mom told me that, I got all choked up. I love and respect my cousin-in-law immensely and am in awe of her work (she's a university professor who specializes in Middle Eastern women's studies), and hearing that from her was so very encouraging, and it reminded me that perhaps that's what I should be spending time on--my novel, which has been languishing since my old laptop died and took the latest version with it.

My point--perhaps I should be spending time this summer getting back to that novel. And perhaps completing it and somehow managing to get it published would bring in more money than piddly freelance jobs...? :think:

[Kind of Blue]

16. Beautiful, MG :)

I remember a dream I had when going through a very rough time. I'm sure it was my Guide who I ran into. I asked him how can I achieve well-being. He said, try being well instead of searching for well-being. Puzzled over that until I realized the one thing at my disposal that gave me total satisfaction, peace of mind and joy - pencil, paper, draw :hug:

[MorningGlow]

23. That's nice, KoB

Cheers to your guide. :toast:

It's so difficult to remember the simplest thing--that we should be doing what we enjoy. All that "do what you love; the money will follow" is correct, but still we fight against it and think that we should be doing something that will make us barrels of cash instead, even if we hate whatever that money-maker is.

I'm always nagging Mr. MG not to accept the full-time position that he's currently working on contract, when they offer it to him. He thinks the company is idiotic and he's surrounded by too many incompetent coworkers. I know he'll be unhappy there, but he always says that if they offer him a basket o' cash, he'll take it, because "money CAN buy you happiness". He should have figured out by now that that's not true at all, but he's stubborn.

And yet...I can see where he's coming from, because I still yearn to pay off all our debts in one fell swoop. That WOULD make me happy... :banghead:

[JanusAscending]

18. DO IT !!!

just do it!!! I know you can.

[MorningGlow]

24. Awww--sweet!

:hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

21. You KNOW it's my very strong opinion...

that you're one of the most brilliant writers EVAH.

I love, love, love to read your writing. It would be such a loss for the rest of us if you didn't pursue anything your heart longs to write.

:hug:

[MorningGlow]

25. Pshaw, OGR

:blush:

[mntleo2]

19. A story for what it is worth ...

...Many years ago I was in a multi-faith group of people we called "The Ashram" (place of learning). We were of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhists and Wiccan and we met every week. We shared a vegan potluck (the Hindus are vegan and man they can cook!) and then formed a circle where we chose someone from within and sometimes asked people from outside the group to come in and share their personal journeys as to why they chose their faith. The one rule, if you want to call it that was nobody was trying to convert anybody, we just wanted to find common ground in our diverse faiths and that we did! It went on for about 3 years.

One time a young Hindu woman raised in the Himalayan mountains and myself were asked to share our journey. I was raised in the North Cascades as a "born again" Christian, she on the other side of the world in the Hindu faith. She had chosen her path because she was sure she had been other faiths at other times, and I felt the same way. As a matter of fact because of those wonderful Hindus and Buddhists, I "came out" to my (mainline Congregational) church as a person who believed in many lives. Furthermore, except for the vastly different cultures we were raised, our stories were virtually identical.

As one of the speakers, I had asked the others beforehand with assurances I was not trying to convert anyone or anything, if I could tell them and show them about my faith's custom of sharing communion because it symbolized to me the shared meal and spiritual time I experienced with them. Before we began the evening, while preparing for the potluck meal and all, I realized I only had a small roll to symbolize the bread and with no time to get anymore, but lots of grape juice for the wine, that little dinner roll was all I had to take to the meal.

I arrived at the dinner and instead of the 15 or so people that night, there were over 60 people! After we had eaten and gathered together, Bapu Gi, the Hindu leader, told a story about how he and his family had taken a drive around Mt Rainier and saw it from many different sides,and from each side the mountain looked completely different than the other sides, or even looked at all like any of the sides from afar as he drove to it from Seattle. He said that all of us gathering there that night were like that mountain ~ completely different, but still the same mountain. My minister was there and so was a Sufi Mystic, as well as representation from about every faith you could imagine.

My Hindu friend and I gave our stories and we sat in silence for a moment and the time came for my minister and I to tell them about our communion. I gingerly brought out my little roll, which was about the size of ...well a dinner roll ...and I apologized as that was all I had for the communion bread. We all decided to take a little piece and pass it on until it was gone. There was so much love and community in the room as we all helped each other take a piece of the roll and dipped in the juice and ate it, I cannot explain it.

Oddly enough when the bread came back round to me it was no smaller! You could see where everyone ~ over 60 people ~ had taken something yet ...it was NO SMALLER! I shrugged it off but ...could not forget it.

Fast forward about a year and a few of my friends and I were having tea together and discussed that night. Timidly, I told them I noticed the size of the bread had not gotten any smaller. Bapu-Gi said he had noticed that too as did the others commented they too, had noticed that, but none of us believed what we saw, including my minister ~ except Bapu-Gi. He said, "Don't you know, love always makes things grow?" I remembered within my own faith the story of Jesus and the loaves and fishes and how they "grew" and my abashed minister had to admit we had seen something of the same "loaves and fishes" incident that night.

I am very low income ~ around 300% below the poverty line. But I have never gone hungry, indeed since then have found when I share my food with others there is always enough for all. I have fed my 3 sons and all their friends as teens with a few cans, a couple potatoes and my imagination and nobody left the table with an empty stomach, it was delicious to all, furthermore there is always something left over for at least another meal.

Why do I write this? Because as Jesus said, "Consider the lilies of the field. They sow neither do they reap, yet even Solomon in all his glory are not as beautiful as one of these ..."

If there is one thing I have learned from out of my poverty it is to be glad I had something to eat, something to wear and was warm and had somewhere to sleep this day. If I shared and did not worry about having enough, I will have enough. Every day is a miracle because it is just not possible yet I always have enough. It is like stepping of a precipice and knowing Someone is there ready to help me fly, kind of scary, kind of wonderful. and Bapu-Gi is right ..."Love makes things grow ..."

Hope this helps ...
Love,
Cat

[villager]

20. Thanks for that story...

It's a good one.... I envy you that multi-faith/multi-path group you were in...

I share many of the same debt woes as others in this thread, and wonder if it's contributing to a kind of "stuckness" I've been feeling (which has come and gone since my marriage collapsed, but that's been awhile now...)

I don't know that I think of the debt being "gone," since part of the reason it ratcheted up was due to the manipulations of banks (after said marriage ended), but I do know I'd like to cease giving banks, and their collectors, reasons to interact with me, as it were. Or at least, reasons not of my choosing!

Much to ponder in this thread, as one heads off to bed...

[Sanity Claws]

22. Beautiful story

I wished I still lived in Seattle so I could meet you. Perhaps another lifetime!

[MorningGlow]

26. Lovely, Cat

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It reminds me that although I piss and moan about our debt, there's hardly ever been a time when I was unable to pay our bills. Something always comes along at the last minute, you know? Loaves and fishes--absolutely. :hug: