Anyone consult the I Ching?

[Quantess]

I'm pretty impressed with the validity of the results. As divination goes, the I Ching is the best one I've tried.

I didn't used to know how to interpret it, but now that all the detailed information is readily found with a google search, I find that the results are really accurate. For me, anyway.

Anyone else?

[Xicano]

1. Have you looked into Terence McKenna's work on it?

He's got some very interesting material on it. Sorry I don't have a link to provide since its been a while since I've gone over it. If you google Terence McKenna audio download "Tree of Knowledge" this long (I think like some 11hrs long) audio at the end goes over it a bit.

[Quantess]

2. Thanks for the idea. No, I haven't,

but wasn't he the one who noticed the mathematical correlation of the 64 hexagrams to December 12, 2010?

11 hours? Wow, he must really have a lot to say about it.

[MagickMuffin]

3. Yes, and Terence developed the Timewave Zero theory back in the early 1970s to the late 1990s

which deals with December 2012

http://www.fractal-timewave.com/index.html


Some more info:


Terence noticed a unrecognized pattern in I – CHINGS 64 combination, when he arranged the 64 hexagrams in a graph, it can accurately point all the events of past with highs and lows of his graph , the graph begins from the period of I CHINGs creation at China’s Shan dynasty he called it TIME WAVE ZERO. The most amazing thing about his graph is the fact that it ends on Dec 21, 2012, when he plotted the graph he was not aware of the Mayan Calendar.
iching_hexagrams

64 Hexagrams of I - CHI

He believe that something important is going to happen during that date. But he is very much positive about the date, according to him he believes that something is going to happen in that date that may change the time space measurement as we do now. He believes that with the help of technology humans may discover something that can manipulate time and space dimension, which will change our world views and make us enlightened beings.



http://www.newagethinkers.com/2012-december-21-speculations/i-chings-dooms-day-prediction-and-terence-mckenna/





http://www.ritualgoddess.com/the2012vortex/?tag=terence-mckenna

[Delphinus]

4. I just stumbled across

his Timewave Zero info a few weeks ago and it has fascinated me.

[Xicano]

5. Hi Delphinus its been a long time, good to see you again.

:hi:

[Delphinus]

12. Hi back!

:hi:

[MagickMuffin]

6. It is fascinating isn't it, I've posted about it before

It's also interesting that he had been working on it since the 70's. I wish he was still around to elaborate more info :cry:

He was definitely a time traveler, way ahead of his time.


So, have you played around with the software?!?!?

[Xicano]

7. Here's some links on the "Tree of Knowledge" I referred to Quantess.

Its in eight parts. If you wish to start off where Terence McKenna gets into discussing the I Ching then you can skip to part six and advance the audio to the 16:00 min mark.

Terence McKenna "Tree of Knowledge" mp3 download.

Part 1: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge1.mp3

Part 2: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge2.mp3

Part 3: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge3.mp3

Part 4: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge4.mp3

Part 5: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge5.mp3

Part 6: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge6.mp3

Part 7: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge7.mp3

Part 8: http://www.lancerules.com/terence/treeofknowledge8.mp3

The Tree of Knowledge is actually one of the few of my favorite lectures by Terence McKenna.

Enjoy. :)

[Delphinus]

13. Thank you for these links!

Looking forward to really diving in!

[NuttyFluffers]

8. used it quite a bit. very good for clarity in decision making...

for understanding the situation i still favor Tarot. the level of complexity and different reading layouts possible is tremendous for it. however it takes considerable practice to finesse other layouts and get experience for all 156 symbols (78 x 2 :) ). throw in interrelation and placement values and it's crazy complex for a beginner.

i'd recommend Ifa as well, it's a variation of drawing lots, which is what the I Ching is based on. and instead of 2^6=64 possible results, you get 2^8=256. drawing lots is one of the oldest methods of divination ever, going back to ancient Zhou China and the early Chaldeans and even beyond, etc. the Muslim Arabs brought lot drawing to Nigeria and other parts of Africa, and a great variety of reading styles occurred. however, i find the Ifa a pretty impressive corpus of mythology, culture, herbalism, songs, spiritual medicine/spells, and divination all rolled into one. too bad it's mostly oral and thus not codified like we are used to. also the general prevention of women from being babalawo is rather a kick in the pants for 1/2 the learners out there. but it's pretty vibrant if you can find a few of the not-so-easy-to-find books on the subject.

if you want a slower, but slightly different experience of I Ching, might i recommend drawing lots the old way, instead of the 3 coins way. it needs 49 lots to do (the 50th lot is the "witness"); i usually take a regular deck of cards (52 cards - no jokers), and put aside a pair and then draw off an Ace as the "witness" and then run with the rest of the deck as lots. quite slow, but the mathematical results favor changing yang lines and stable yin lines, which tends to be closer to the cosmological conception of what was expected of yin and yang relations. it also puts you in a rather pensive place where you can meditate on the question at hand, which is useful.

glad you are enjoying it. it's a complex system, like almost all divination. it's richness provides a lifetime of curiosity.

[Quantess]

9. But the I-Ching gives a lot more than 64 results!

When you take into account the changing lines, that is an awful lot of possibilities...more than I feel like doing the math on. The changing lines are where you get some juicy details. Every changing line brings a twist to the original hexagram's meaning. I've been reading the forums at onlineclarity.com for specific line changes, and the readings have seemed amazingly spot-on for me.

I have tried the Tarot, and maybe because I don't know enough about interpreting it, it just didn't do much for me. I didn't feel like I got any clear answers like I do with the I-Ching. I just do the online free I-Ching and have gotten valid readings from that, as long as I focus on the question.

[NuttyFluffers]

10. all lot drawing divination gives changing lines. but even in change, in I Ching it's only 1 of 64...

it's just mathematical possibilities: 2 possibilities for each of 6 lines is two to the sixth power. the limit of possibilities is 64. the changing lines just gives you a focal point for additional story within each line in relation to the whole gram, and then alters into another of 64 possibilities. that's basically 64 squared = 4,096. that's a lot of change.

but all lot drawing has these changing lines and additional information.

Tarot is just crazy hard is all. it's 156 symbols for each place; compare this with only two possibilities for each line. then look at the basic Celtic Cross and you have 156 raised to the 10th power. that's a crazy huge number, if my math's right that's 8.5 times 10 to the 21st (8 with 21 zeros behind it). the possibilities are so great that it cannot function well with the human mind's preference for archetypal representations -- so instead we focus on symbolic relations (essentially the 156 archetypes, and how they interact). and then that gets back to how well someone learned all 156 symbols in the first place (which would be like someone asking you how well you learned all 64 I Ching archetypes). Tarot is a remarkable tool, but requires real mastery and finesse, whereas I Ching and other lot drawing is more democratic in its accessibility -- they ask "what's the main archetype, and what's the next archetype to interact with it" instead of Tarot's "what's all these many archetypes interacting" -- which probably explains why it feels clearer in comparison.

edit: there is a recent book that chooses to read Tarot in a more simplified manner and just goes with the signifying core of the Celtic Cross. so instead of drawing 10 cards (or 13 if you do a significator), it just draws two, a la I Ching: just the cover the situation and cross the situation (places 1 and 2). if i were to update it to being more related to I Ching i'd select position 1 and 6 (near future).

in a fun thought exercise, i'd describe the placements in a spread akin to line position. each line position, if a changing line, offers greater information in relation to the archetype. in the same way each spread position offers new context to the archetype. however any further with this analogy would probably stretch the scope of each of these divining methods.
:)

[conscious evolution]

16. Don't forget the nuclear trigram

After the first casting take lines 2,3 and 4 then 3,4 and 5 to get the nuclear trigram.
This trigram deals with your question on the cosmic law level.Really,really heady stuff.

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. I did at one point and found it to be very useful.

[Metta]

14. Translation I like.

They make the work more or less accessible. I particularly like the Wilhelm Baynes edition from Princeton. Can't go wrong.

http://www.amazon.com/I-Ching-Book-Changes/dp/069109750X/ref=pd_sim_b_2

[Brewman_Jax]

15. Yes

have consulted it on and off for years. I have the I Ching Workbook and the I Ching by Wilhelm and Baynes.