The Economy

[Fire Walk With Me]

Always an interesting question.

Some here have said that Obama came in with the soul mission to keep things together during the transferrence into 2012 energy, and that he is definitely doing so. The Maharishi wrote a paper titled something like "India to again be the world's power", and Paramhansa Yogananda wrote something to the effect that the East and the West have in the last century traded roles (spiritual/industrial).

I am definitely in agreement that Obama has already saved us from perhaps total economic collapse, which would have effected the world gravely, and given the republicans and their worldwide money buddies entry into even greater power. He has worked miracles already.

But what of that to come? I don't think that America will return to such a wasteful, selfish "economy" anytime soon, and that spirituality will indeed increase in the country as a result/part of the plan/national karma.

I predicted the economy going the direction it has gone (and also that gold was/is a good investment) back in May of 2008 at, hilariously, the-gas-station.com.

LINK?

"...the desired result of the process we are undergoing is consciousness regarding taking care of each other."

I believe this to still be the case. My question to the forum is, will this occur because of continuing economic trouble, or as the logical response? Your thoughts on the future of the USA and its economy please...

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. Obama's message is "change"

which can be a double-edged sword.

If the change is to a different, frugal, spiritual system, shouldn't it (or even the possibility) be discussed?

[FirstLight]

2. did you see the scary graph on economic downturns...?

I can't remember where I saw it but it showed the length and depth of the downturns over the past century and the trends are not good. The last 3 downturns from 1990 to now have been longer and dipped lower each time...

So I don't think we are doing very well.


besdies, the wealth distriution is off the hook and the middle class is all but vanishing. So there is not much chance for recovery when he serfs can't particpate in consumerism. I think Capitalism has finally eaten itself.

...and the peak oil and natural disaster issues I brought up in the other thread are going to be issues we have to live with and will hit us before any REAL recovery happens.

Ya, Obama bought us some time and some semblance of normalcy for a while longer, but I don't think for one minute we will go back to the way we were, nor will we see a full recovery before the rest of the shit hits the fan. but thats just my apocalyptic viewpoint, sorry.. :scared:

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. Enron, BushCo and all of them know about peak oil, and have been preparing.

They know about global warming, and have been preparing.

It is very important to be aware of their movements as they stand a chance of bringing things down severely as they attempt to grab tons of power and control during the downshifts. If they are allowed to establish themselves as a Hydraulic Empire, and to control other forms of energy, it will indeed be The Company Store, 2012 energy or not.

Be aware and scream like fuck if you see it looming. They'll definitely try to grab power, it's what they do, and they're well aware of the crisis we all face. Remember, they're disaster capitalists, and disaster is when they most clearly capitalize.

Know thine enemy, that their actions may be most obvious, and thus, actionable.

[bigmonkey]

4. Your post fills me with dread.

These are movements of the predators within the system that is failing. The predators are the most vulnerable to systemic changes, because they are the most highly adapted to exploit the specific circumstances under which they developed. Is there no countervailing movement? Is it really just "Watch out, they're hungry and doing their stretching exercises!"

I think there must be a tipping moment toward the positive when the system collapses. Where is the intuition into that?

I'm fighting off despair here, and I wish I didn't have to be in that state. If these are highly adapted predators, then they are vulnerable - contrariwise, if they are not vulnerable, then they are, perhaps, not those predators and the situation is worse than we think. But I would say that the ASAH perspective is one of evolution, so how could this be the verge of eternal (or nearly eternal) subjugation?

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Have you read "How the Grinch Stole Christmas!" ?

Really and truly? Just like with "2001", the last few moments are the most important.

Yes, I'm being serious. Fine, go ahead and snorfle, it's true, and important.

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. Most of my work is to point at that which we must reject.

It may not all come to pass, but I must point at that which must be understood and being understood, deflected and rejected.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Would you kindly expand upon this?

First, I'm a little lost as to what you're speaking of in this brief post. ;)

Yet I'm mostly pulled toward the wording.

I ask this question respectfully...truly...yet I always pause when others at least seem to convey something they feel is an absolute. Such as your statement "...that which we must reject."

Especially coming from a spiritual perspective as we do in this forum, I wonder how any of us really know what others should and should not reject in their experience?

Perhaps I'm just a wuss and others are much more clear about everything. ;) I, personally, am more apt to look at a situation differently when someone suggests something versus those who tell me something without hesitation. I respond to this approach because I interpret it as a degree of humility in that they do not KNOW the answers, yet believe they may have a good grasp of one piece of the puzzle. Gary Zukav was always so good about this, and I really responded to his approach and thus learned a lot.

This also harkens back to a question I had months ago, and started a thread about it, asking people here how do you KNOW anything? We may know something to be true for us yet how do we know beyond all doubt that it's the truth for others? It is a very sincere question. ;)

Thank you for humoring me. :hug:

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. Play with extreme darkness and find out for yourself.

";)"

[OneGrassRoot]

12. No thanks...

:hi:

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. Yes, I knew that you were not serious.

Thanks for posting. ";)"

[eilen]

7. People will help/take care of each other due to necessity

When it appears that no one can go it alone anymore.

I don't think there will be any universal epiphany and seismic shift. People just don't work that way.

It will take the few to provide example and leadership and it will start with the least, the lost and the defunded.

As more join those these ranks, they will discover things about themselves and about our society/system as it is and will change from within as they are participating in a movement of cooperation, first, as recipients of kindness and compassion, then as purveyors of the same. It will change their lives fundamentally. A brutal, painful process nonetheless.

Change starts with us, not Obama. He really is very far removed from the hard work. The best he can do is get out of our way and not put in place barriers or disincentives for cooperatives. Ending the wars would be the best as he is producing damaged people every day which will require heightened services and support from the communities of which they will return.

[OneGrassRoot]

8. I agree....

I see a huge social evolution on the horizon, out of necessity...one person, one family, one community at a time.

Indeed, the giving/receiving/kindness/compassion element is why I, personally, believe that until our hearts are open (hence the focus of this month's Prayer, Light and Healing thread), all of these things will meet barriers. In general, people do not have open hearts, in my experience. They may say the words, but DOING is quite different. And that involves giving AND receiving...it is a two-way street, this world of compassion and empathy we're moving into...

I find the whole thing fascinating as far as observing individual and societal reactions, tendencies, etc.

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. Well-said.

I agree with you on everything except for the "wars". Iraq has to be cleaned up (edit: ended/exited) at once. Afghanistan has true problems which must be addressed. Trust Obama on that one.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Say, some very good news regarding the cessation of job loss:

http://www.barackobama.com/recovery/video.php

He is indeed a miracle worker. This surprises me (then again, I am only interested in the goal, not the means). I wonder what jobs will be created. Hopefully green items, and new ideas which will lead the country into the Sustainable.

I don't know how the increase in spirituality and our greater need to learn to take care of each other will come about. It must, but now I wonder at the timing, that 2012 in and of itself may not be a hard line regarding such. Should be very interesting!