Cat with CRF questions

[HERVEPA]

Hi, and thanks for any help.
My cat has lost weight and urinating excessively, but still eating well.
Tests have indicated his kidney numbers are at the very highest stages of "normal", and he likely is in early stages of CRF.
The vet wants to put him on a special diet, bought from the vet.

Questions

1) How much extra life might this help to give him. I hate to replace food he likes (Fancy Feast) with stuff that is less moist and he will likely enjoy less.
2) The vet of course will not (and I guess can't) give a real answer, but what are people's experiences with how long he might live. He is either 11 or 14 years old, it's not clear.
3) Any opinions on how worthwhile the subcutaneous fluids are in prolonging with a reasonable quality of life. I know I would not be able to do them myself and would need to go to a vet for it, which would get expensive. He does not need them yet.
4) To be prepared, I'm looking for a cat coffin. Simple wooden box. I plan to bury him in the woods on my daughter's property. Coffin she bought for their dog was cheap, but that person no longer making them. Any ideas on where to get cheap wooden one on-line. All I see are dolled-up ones.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

[Paper Roses]

1. My kitty was on KD for years and lived a great life. Don't give up.

The diet comes in dry and moist. If your kitty gets hungry enough, she will eat. Don't give up too soon for the sake of the kitty and for you.

Take it slowly. I have friends who give their kitty fluids every day and she is thriving. My best kitty died from kidney failure and was beyond the stage where intravenous would have helped. She went quickly. I never regretted the bills that she generated. Not major but a chunk each time we had to go to the vet.

Help her along with the recommended diet. You will feel guilty is you don't.

[tencats]

2. About that early stage CRF cat.

1) My cats were at the time I was informed of their elevated BUN/Urea, Creatinine on a high protein diet.
With both cats the Dr recommended the Hills prescription k/d but I never had much success with it mainly because my CRF cats didn't like it. I have been told that some CRF cats can do very well on it though. I did make a diet change and only served up a lower protein choice of foods along with my homemade cat soup for their remaining time. I have a very low opinion of that Fancy Feast product. I think that the diet adjustments that I made for the CRF cats made a difference and gave us more time. Recommend you read and understand some info here at this link. http://www.felinecrf.org/just_diagnosed.htm

2) You do know that by the time you see those two elevated values from the blood chemistry panel that the cats kidney function is already way down. With both of my cats I started with sub-Qs, daily at first and then tapered them off to once every 3-4 days. Near the end I did have to return to sub-Qs every day. My Vet told me that in his experience once the cat is diagnosed with CRF its life expectancy can be sometimes only a few more days to maybe as long as 8 months at most. He said he had seen only very few approach that 8 month mark but did have one go 14 months. My one kitty which I had believed to be about 8 years old when her test results were found to be elevated did very well once I started the sub-Qs and adjusted her diet. In fact she made a real good comeback which the Dr said sometimes can happen. She did well for near 10 months when she very suddenly went down hard. She was tested in January and we had that following Spring/Summer together during which she seemed near well and was her happy little self. She never liked the sub-Qs but we did them. I don't regret making the effort and the cost wasn't much once I began purchasing the Lactated Ringer's solution and line sets outside of the Vet clinic. You can also go to the Feline CRF Support Group for help and more info. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/

3) Sub-Qs can work like a miracle on the CRF cat and they are not at all difficult to do with most cats.
You just make up your mind to to it and maybe in the beginning get an extra hand involved with helping.
You love your cat and you can do Sub-Qs, there are harder things to do like pilling a cat. With early stage CRF cat you could possibly be doing fluids as needed or maybe once every 5-7 days along with the prescribed diet change. Retesting is very important too.

4) Will private message you later this evening about a box.

The best Cat, my Penelope - birth date not known - died 10/6/08
This photo was recorded 6 months after she was diagnosed CRF.
Got her on 10/5/04 and guessed she was about 3-4 years old at the time but possibly she was really older.
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[HERVEPA]

6. Thanks for all the info

I have read a bunch of stuff. But was looking for first hand info. I appreciate your time spent in your response.

I suspected something like the 8 month likely max.
Most sites and vets tend to be very hazy on this, not willing to give the likelihood of early demise.

I do doubt I could do sub-q. No-one to help me on that on any kind of regular basis.
I would use vet if not too often. I know that would be expensive.

[glinda]

3. Yes. Follow the second answer and also put him on Renal Failure foods. NO treats!

There are some cats that like them. All five of mine are on Royal Canan Modified wet and dry. Make sure you give more wet food than dry. SubQ is EASY and cheap to do once you do it. Have the Vet show you how. My cat Buster is on SubQ. He ate poisoned petfood three years ago and went into renal failure. He eventually had the surgery that turned him into a girl so that he doe not block up.
Fresh water at all times! Make sure the water is run through something like a Brita filter or a water purifier. It helps to have good water.
Main things are :diet, put weight on kitty by small and frequent feedings, clean water, fresh litter box, sub-Q if you get to that point. Once in awhile take a nice wet and clean cloth and give a kitty bath by rubbing his fur. Toxins accumulate on the fur.
Please do not give up. They have made a lot of progress on this disease.
FANCY FREAST WILL KILL HIM btw.

[glinda]

5. Added note: My cat has lived three years with Renal failure. He is 15. we are grateful

every day that he is alive. Please do not give up hope.

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. I have a senior renal failure dog

He had a renal crisis with renal failure at 5 months of age. His best prognosis was wait and see. One vet recommended that he be euthanized. That was 7 years ago. He has eaten K/D ever since. He has lived a pretty normal doggie life with very few modifications required outside his diet. He does get a few treats but they are largely things like raw apple, carrot, or vanilla wafers. We do a full blood profoile every 6 months to monitor his health. His numbers have consistently been in the upper range of normal while on the K/D diet.

Good luck to you and your kitty.

[CC]

7. My cat made the switch from Evo to KD diet with

no problem. He doesn't like wet KD but never liked wet food much anyway. He will eat the dry with water on it and loves it. He also gets sub-q fluids everyday and it is a lot easier than you think. He doesn't mind getting the fluids at all and often purrs the whole time. Ayja is 14 years old and was diagnosed with CRF last May. Ask your vet about giving him vitamin b-12 from the beginning. CRF cats tend to become anemic and the b-12 can help you avoid that. I get his fluids online since it is much cheaper than the vets. Along with the sub-q fluids and B-12 Ayja gets a fish oil capsule every other day, Azodyl twice a day and benazepril once a day. He also gets 1/4 of a 10 mg pepcid tablet once a day since he was getting an upset stomach. I use a pill popper to give the pills and got empty gel caps to put the yucky tasting drugs (benazepril) in. Makes both our lives easier. He went from being at deaths door to doing really well now. You would never know he has CRF if you weren't told.

My vet couldn't tell me how long my cat would live but he did say he has some that are going on 5 plus years with renal failure yet others didn't last more than a couple months. A lot depends on the cat but also on how well you are at keeping up on meds, food etc.

[Orsino]

8. Our eldest cat has CRF...

...and at age 17.6 is also saddled with not-quite normal kidney function.

We have been carting him to the vet twice a week for subcutaneous fluid (Ringer's solution). It's something we ought to be able to do ourselves, but either our hands aren't steady or he senses our tension, and strugggles violently. Our vet says that kittehs can live for years with CRF. A kidney-support (low-protein) diet can help, and subq fluid can do the rest.

Now, we almost lost our old boy to pneumonia in recent weeks, but he seems to be coming back very well, and we expect to revert to a simple regimen of subq.

[virgdem]

9. My experiences with CRF cats...

4 out of my 6 cats had or currently have CRF. I have one cat left, Sammy, who is 18 years old. She was diagnosed in 2006 with the beginning stages of CRF when she had an attack of Pancreatitis, and we have given her 150 ml of Ringer's Lactate for the past 3.5 years every night without fail. She is doing great and has not lost hardly any weight at all. She was recently diagnosed with high blood pressure, which is very common with CRF kitties, and we give her 1/4 of Amplodipine (Norvasc), which you can get through your pharmacy. I feed her Royal Canin L/P (Low Phosphorus) dry food and Petguard canned food, which I can only get through a health food store. The key is to feed a very high quality food and give Sub-Q's and medication as necessary. Kitties can live for years with the proper medication and support.

[kimi]

10. I had a senior kitty with CRF

She lived another 6 months after diagnosis, and it was a decent quality of life for her. We put her on the K/D diet, she didn't like it too much so I also spiked it with a little bit of broth from her favorite senior food, and sometimes sprinkled a bit of catnip on top, sparingly. It did help her appetite to have those things, she wouldn't have touched the food otherwise. She also got sub-q fluids daily, and it sounds scary and difficult, but if you have a vet or vet tech come over and spend some time with you teaching you, that might help. I was a nurse, still couldn't do the fluids for her so my husband, with no medical training at all, did them. If he could do it, you surely could.:) And it did help her also, it became a routine every night, even when we went on vacation, she came along and got the fluids. This was in 2001, I believe that treatment and meds for the condition have advanced considerably since then. Towards the end, she became incontinent at times, and I would clean her off, and sit in the sun with her and gently comb her fur, she seemed to appreciate that, and looking back, I feel very grateful that we had that time. You'll get through this, my thoughts are with you and your kitty.

[kestrel91316]

11. My most recent mascot had renal issues the last 3 1/2 years of her life,

complicated by hyperthyroidism. With a renal diet, multiple medications, and diuresis (subcutaneous fluids), she had a very good and happy life until we put her to sleep a month ago at nearly 19.

If your cat has early CRF, I sure wouldn't be buying a coffin yet......you have work to do.

Of course, some DUers (militant vegans and animal rightists) proclaim that I "hate animals", so you should probably ignore everything I say or do the opposite, lol.

[Warpy]

12. What kills critters with CRF is a buildup in the blood of toxins

that the kidneys aren't eliminating. In people, it's mostly potassium and the byproducts of protein breakdown. Your vet can give you guidance on what the feline renal diet consists of, but basically, it will keep your kitty from being poisoned for a little bit longer. In addition, excessive urination might be flushing other essential nutrients out of its body, so a balancing act between the two is necessary.

As to the subcutaneous fluids, if the kitty is urinating excessively and unable to drink enough to compensate for the fluid loss, the subcutaneous fluids will keep the cat much more comfortable while preserving what renal function it still has.

Cats really, really hate having their diets changed but they do get used to it after a while. Just expect some sulking while the cat makes the transition.

[HERVEPA]

13. Follow up

I've ordered (on-line) pet scale to keep track of weight (his, not mine :-) )

Concerning the person who mentioned not ordering the coffin yet, I just want to have it available.
I hope it won't be needed for a long time. When the unhappy event does occur, I will be driving four hours with him to bury him at my daughter's house.

My vet has put my cat Tigger on
Eukanuba (now Iams) multi stage renal wet food. (He does not like dry food).

Anyone have any opinions or experience on this. It looks pretty disgusting and as I mix more of it in with his old food, he looks less and less pleased and is eating somewhat less.

I also remember, I believe, that Iams is a pretty terrible company, but don't recall why.

Any comments on any of this would be welcome.

[glinda]

14. My cat Buster had severe renal failure due to toxic pet food. He is 15-16 and almost died

four times. We have been stable the last 3 yrs. and two months with daily sub-Q fluids.
He ended up having surgery to make his pee hole bigger by turning him into a girl so that crystals do not block him. I bought a water purifier and only give him purified water. You have no idea how harsh city chemical water can be on kidneys.
He eats three varieties of wet renal food and RC Modified Renal.I never feed him treats or non-renal food ever. I sometimes put water drizzled over the top of that also. He suffers the occasional infection mostly due to his surgery but we take him in and get his urine tested periodically and give the proper antibiotic. I make sure he has clean as possible litter box and blankets as everything they have on their coat will go into their mouth and body and I do not want the kidneys to suffer more. We are grateful for every day with him. And to see him happy, content, hungry and urinating is a joy!
Try also a little hand feeding of wet to encourage him to eat. They like attention.

[HERVEPA]

15. Thanks for your info

And I'm glad he is doing pretty well.