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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 11:32 PM
Original message
What You Need to Know about Linux
This post is partly a response to a question in this forum located here, but I'm actually commenting writ REALLY REALLY LARGE on a broader topic. I'm going to approach this differently than I normally do and attempt to address specific issues that interest many people in a non-specific way, in direct response to the questions asked in that post and some that derive from it. This is not intended to be comprehensive nor a guide to using a Linux. It is, however, my general thoughts on the subject of switching and comparing Linux and Windows. I will make four points.

This is longer than I initially intended, and I got a bit playful, so I'm putting the (*) notes up front to convey the specific information requested:

(*) ClamAv is adequate for a virus scanner under Linux. It comes standard with most distributions (distros), but you'll probably have to install and activate it yourself since the default for most distros is not to bother. Doing so is no different than installing any other software. In Ubuntu, with the command line, it's simply:

sudo apt-get install clamav

It runs silently, in the background. You'll never notice it unless something bad happens. You *can* install a GUI for it that allows you to do scans and such in a graphical, user-controlled environment, but I have found little utility in doing this.

You'll also want to run the command line application chkrootkit or rkhunter (or have them run automatically in a cronjob as part of the daily system maintenance) to check for rootkits every so often.

(**) Open Office can open pretty much anything its Microsoft Office counterparts can produce, particularly the older (pre-2007) versions, although the current incarnation of Open Office can open standard 2007 Word and Excel documents without a problem. In a Linux environment, one may have some trouble with exotic formatting, colors, tables, and various functions of spreadsheets. The fonts may be off because of proprietary MS fonts only available from Microsoft. All of that can be overcome.

Where problems start to arise is when switching back and forth with some regularity. Open Office allows you to save in MS format, but it warns you. MS Office does not allow you to save in Open Office (.ODF) format at all. So, if you want to switch between them, you generally will end up using the .DOC or .XLS formats for their respective types of programs. I've personally experienced this on multiple levels, some of which I've related in this forum.

For example, because Excel 2003 limits IF() nesting to a certain level (6, I think), I can create a function in an Open Office document that will *open* fine in Excel 2003, but when I save it in the .XLS format, if the function has greater than 7 levels of nesting, it will screw it up such than when I then open it again in either Excel or Calc (Open Office's spreadsheet), my equation will be screwed.

As another example, in Word, I may create lovely tables and colors and shading and save it in .DOCX format. Open Office will open it, but it may not look the same, and if I then save it again, it definitely won't look the same when I open it again in Word 2007.

Do note that these problems don't generally arise with basic stuff, rather the more advanced features.


Now, on to my lengthy opus ...

Be Prepared to Change

When considering a switch to Linux, or even using Linux side-by-side with Windows, the first thing anyone needs to understand is that Linux is NOT Windows. Neither is it OSX or AmigaDOS or whatever. It's it's own thing, and it will be different. This may seem a self-evident point, but it's important to understand because many people approach using an operating system as though Windows is The Way Things Should Be. Moreover, Windows is The Way Things Are for many people, and switching to any other operating system can be traumatic, a bit like going from driving a gasoline powered automobile with the steering wheel on the left in the US to flying a whirlymagig that runs on blue cheese dressing and can fly through mountains on Europa. Both will get you where you want to go, but the experience of getting there is entirely different. As the linked article states, the more of a Windows expert you are, the more difficult using Linux on the desktop can be. You must be prepared to change your way of thinking about doing things with a computer.

Point #1: If you are accustomed to Windows, like the way things are done on Windows, and have few complaints about the software you use under Windows that cannot clearly be answered by using another operating system, switching to Linux may not be the best idea in the world.

System Philosophy and Security

Linux is based on Unix. Unix was designed as a multi-user system. A multi-user system is then based on the idea that The System has its own space, and the users have their own space. Users do not directly interact with The System, so if a user screws up, the system doesn't care. It goes merrily along even though the user is dead. In part because of this, Linux is less susceptible to the common modes of infection from malware seen today, today being February 19th, 2010. What is common today may change tomorrow. What becomes more possible may change two weeks from Tuesday at 2:27pm, EST. Furthermore, Linux is not as popular on the desktop as is Windows. That fact combined with the more difficult-to-infiltrate structure of a Linux system makes it less viable a target for script kiddies and other random purveyors of malicious software.

For a committed hacker, no system is secure. Believe it.

What this means in practical terms for our purposes here is that the malware (viruses, trojans, spyware, adware, rootkits, crippleware, javascript shenanigans, and just plain bad software that doesn't do anything but try to get you to give up your wallet) commonly experienced in the wild are less common and/or do not function well, or at all, in a Linux environment.

You *can* run Linux on a desktop all day long, every day, for years, regularly visiting sites known to be cesspools of malicious code just waiting to rob Grandma's life savings and have nothing happen to you. You might also visit a site that just has pictures of bunnies sleeping and end up causing NORAD to declare DEFCON 1 and end all life on the planet.

Point #2: The question is often asked, "Do I need virus protection if I use Linux?" The answer: Yes, you do ... probably not need it, but you should have it anyway(*). There are two basic reasons.

First, nothing inherently prevents malware from running on Linux. What prevents most malware that is common today from doing anything with a Linux system is that a) it is written to work on a Windows machine and b) the security structure of a Linux machine makes writing malware that works on it more difficult, which is also a reason why most malware is written to work on a Windows machine. The malware may kill the user, or it may turn the user into a zombie, but you can kill the user, and The System survives. Of course, in the process, the user may have his bank account emptied. The System, which is free and doesn't understand money, still doesn't care. Second, even if malware cannot run on your machine, that does not prevent said malware from being passed on to others. Every time you connect to a computer, you are connecting to every other computer that computer has connected to. Use standard STD prevention advice. Protecting yourself protects everyone. Run a virus scanner. Occasionally run a rootkit scanner. Avoid HackersRUs.com.org.net.info unless you know what the hell you are doing, and avoid hubris at all costs.

Software

Deep down in the basement of the fundamentals, there's nothing really different about software for Linux and software for Windows. All software is a bunch of codes that tells different bits of electronic equipment how to function, and whether you're running Linux or Windows or AmigaDOS, the hardware is, for all intents and purposes, just one more collection of silicon and copper. Using a different operating system is just using a different language. People who speak Spanish and people who speak English both get along just fine in the world.

However, because Windows is so ubiquitous, concepts such as word processor have become synonymous with individual software packages such as Word. In a different universe in a different time or maybe in the same time and the same universe at a different lunch counter, EMACS is Word Processor. Excel is Spreadsheet. LOTUS 123 is Spreadsheet. Media Player is Media Player or MPlayer is Media Player. It's all just different ways of doing the same thing. Whether one is better depends largely on your priorities.

The differences between software under Linux and Windows very often boils down to problems that arise because certain software packages only run on Windows due to the Single Commandment of the God of Proprietary Oneness: Thou shalt pay Bill Gates and his minions and not complain. By contrast, most major software packages that run under Linux also run under Windows. The Penguin is cool like that, or more specifically, the OpenSource philosophy, of which Linux is a function not a cause, is cool like that. MPlayer, OpenOffice, VLC, Firefox, GNU tools, etc. all run perfectly fine under Windows because the electrons are freeeeee, man, meaning the source is freely available and has been constructed so that it can. Word and Windows Media Player, however, can't do the same trick. They're slaves and don't get out much.

The question is asked, "How does OpenOffice compare with Microsoft Office?" The answer is that it compares well(**), but there are differences and potential problems if one intends to switch back and forth, just the same as there would be if one intended to use Microsoft Movie Maker and Cinerella at the same time to try to render a movie. They both do the same thing, but they do it differently, and they don't talk to each other much at breakfast.

That said, some software that works under Linux only works under Linux, not because it cannot work under Windows but because, most often, legalities or profit motive make it less likely a candidate for being ported to Windows. That is, the source is available and there to be used, but the people that wrote it did so for Linux, and no one bothered to make a version that works with Windows or didn't do so because they didn't want to be hunted down by a Scandinavian police department and forced to lick the toes of INTERPOL's new recruits. There are, then, some cases where you'll find Linux software you really, really like that you can't find for Windows, and in those cases, you'll have to try Linux to try that software.

Point #3: If one wants to compare how well they can function with the software that is available to them in a Linux environment while contemplating a switch from Windows, just download and install that very same software while still using Windows if it's available. It's the same. It works the same. If you like it, great. If not, stick with what you do like. If what you do like only works with Windows, stay with Windows. If what you like works only with Linux, read on ...

Either/Or

The era of the Operating System Wars has left us with a false dichotomy. The common perception is that one must choose to use Linux, or they must choose to use Windows. That philosophy only works in the Apple universe. The Mac is a closed system for which hardware and software have been joined in an arranged marriage from birth. They work well together, but choice is not a word in the language. In the so-called PC world (which is a misnomer, but one I will not delve into right now), one can use either, or both, or neither.

I have personally installed Linux on dozens of people's systems, and I have helped hundreds of others install Linux themselves. In the vast majority of these cases, Linux was installed at the same time as Windows. The system then was granted the Holy Boot Loader, from which the user could choose which operating system to use when they turned on (a shiny new HD empowered graphics card works nicely for this, much better than roses or chocolate) or rebooted their machine. I myself have five different operating systems on my machine at home: Linux Mint KDE CE, Linux Mint Fluxbox CE, Slackware, Windows XP, Windows Vista. At one time I had seven. At another I had two. I change occasionally, in other words.

Point #4: In the most fanciful terms possible, open source software is about the freedom to choose, and Linux is open source. Sounds nice, eh? Well, it is. Linux doesn't care if you use Windows. Windows may care if you use Linux, but just tell it to shut up or ignore it entirely and learn to deal with the temper tantrum it throws occasionally. It's not much different than dealing with a toddler, actually. The best option, in my experience, for anyone who wants to get the most out of their system is to configure their system to use as many different operating systems as they might want to. And, that odd combination of words is chosen intentionally. If you think you might want to use Linux, try it. If you like it, keep it. If you still like Windows, keep it also. If you don't, get rid of it. If you don't like either of them, buy a Mac.

It's just software, not a religion ... or Republican.

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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Overview is helpfull
And I definitely fell into the "windows is how its done, this is just a new version" mindset trap. it got me some momentary frustration.

As a reasonably adept windows user, learning a new language is turning out to be more of a shock than I had expected. My normal method with something new is do things and see what happens. Its how I learn, and I make sure not to start that proscess if there is a question of whether I can afford the potential results. So far I am meeting with very mixed luck.

Some darn simple things are eluding me.

Some issues with the placement of the bars (dont even know what to call them) for applications and menu's, relating to a dual screen setup.

I tend to like medium long titles on files. Everything is aligning to a grid. Short titled things are fine, really long titled things are ok because they wrap to multiple lines. but moderately long file titles are causing some very odd alignments that are driving my inner perfectionist absolutely bonkers.

The games. What the hell. I have never lost so many computer games in such a short time.

Numberlock goes away every time the computer is restarted.

In my reading, I see the command line mentioned frequently. Where, what, help.

It has been an aweful long time since I truely had the "noob" feeling like i do now. But I am determined to at least become moderately competent at this, so I have an accurate baseline for comparison.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. NumLock, etc. ...

Yeah, having Numlock off at startup is a decision made by the Ubuntu distribution. I don't know why. I typically just turn it on as soon as I boot, but you can have it done automatically at boot (well, technically at login) if you want.

There are instructions here: http://myubuntublog.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/jaunty-enabling-num-lock-at-boot-after-login/

I don't know what the "keeping numlock on after login" advice is about. I've never had a problem with it staying on after I turn it on.

Command Line:

You don't have to do anything with the command line (CLI), but it makes many things a lot easier. Plus, Linux people tend to give advice by telling you what to do from the CLI because it's more universal than pointing you to GUI apps. The CLI is accessed via a terminal emulator, something like Konsole or Xterm, which will be listed in your programs under System.



Note that this menu will look different from what you have because I'm using KDE, and Ubuntu uses Gnome as a desktop manager. I'm just giving you a general idea of where to look.

When you open your terminal program, you'll have a screen that looks something like this:



That's where you'll ender commands that you see advised to use here and there.

Regarding games, Ubuntu doesn't install very many by default. Look for a program called Synaptic Package Manager under System also, and you can search for some games to install. There are a lot of them.

Finally, about your dual monitor issue, I can't be much direct help there as I've never set up dual monitors on any system and am only vaguely familiar with the process. It sounds like what you're wanting to do is create a new panel on the other monitor. The "bar" I think you're talking about is the panel, and you can put whatever you want on it and place several other them in various places. Here's a discussion that might address your issue:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=663564


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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I got the panels thing. Thank you
I fell into thinking windows again, rather than accepting it as something new. Once I tossed that and dug around the help a little, it was easy to move the panels where I wanted them. Now I need to play with them a little more to make them look just as I want.

The factory restore discs just arrived, much faster than expected. Now I am torn. Do I scrap what I have been doing so far, and make sure that it can still work as it was originally made, then add ubunto back, or do I keep this longer and play with it more, chancing that I will get harder and harder to eventually use the restore discs and loose everything I have done?

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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hard Drives are cheap both laptop and PC. A 40GB/60GB drive will backup most OS's
can be found on eBay for about 29.95. A device with cloning software that is Vista/Win 7 ready can be found here for about 40.00,

<http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=39>
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I thought about that. Not sure how picky the restoration discs are.
meh. I am taking my first vacation since 2005. All decisions are hereby postponed until Thursday.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. One way to try different Linux distributions if one is currently using OSX or Windows
is to install VirtualBox on your machine. This is a great free product from the (now-absorbed) Sun Micro, and it's a nice way to try out different distros. For most distros (I've had trouble with Debian), you will also want to install the Guest Additions, which will allow your emulation to run in full-screen mode and will enable your pointer to pass seamlessly between your OS and the virtual OS.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. +1
I have 8 computers I use on a regular basis. Depending on the specific purpose i use each one for determines the OS. I have XP, XP X64, 7 Ultimate X64, Ubuntu 9.10, Linux Mint 7, Mandriva 2009 and Ubuntu Studio 9.10. some things are easier to do in a Windows environment and some things are easier in Linux. I have a couple of windows apps that I like that won't work under either WINE or Virtual Box so I leave then on an XP machine.

Since I make a living(?) fixing computers I need Windows just to keep my hand in. Most of the apps I use are Open Source so I can run them on different machines. At one time for laughs I had a 2.5GHz box running DOS. You'd be surprised at how many times booting with FreeDOS and some oldfashioned DOS editing skills can fix some nasty malware/virus problems
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. People are looking for an appliance, not something I need to learn to do.
Linux needs to take a lesson from The VCR fail, no one ever learned to program it.

People want a gadget to do one thing and would buy a 100 things than something that does 100 things. We as a nation have become intellectually lazy and that does not seem to be improving.

With the advent of USB 3.0 (HP shipped this past week) Linux is lost. To me USB 3.0 is a breakout concept of everything on the outside, no hardware on the inside. The ultimate plug and play. This means vendors will completely ignore the linux kernel. Like hackers avoid it because of market share so will hardware vendors because there will be no money in it.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Linux is not lost ...

What you just said is the product of an absolute idea. Linux isn't trying to win. It's not about market share. The same thing was said about 3D graphics and Linux. Linux still is and will be until something better comes along. Windows and OSX aren't it, but there's no problem using them when necessary.

What is lost, or should be, is this idea that a single operating system "rules the world" or even that the real battle is about that.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Broswers are the future and will replace OS's. n/t
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You really want to trust an offsite with your data and apps?
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It has nothing to do with what I want or need, it is the direction I think IT is moving toward.n/t
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I'm so slow to adopt new technologies there are many that have come and gone without me.
I started using Unix more than thirty years ago and my transition to Linux was pretty seamless. Meanwhile I've seen hardware firms come and go -- entire factories and office complexes built up and torn down in the Silicon Valley. Hardware is ephemeral, software lasts forever.

Three "breakout concepts" I've experienced were the opening up of the internet to the great unwashed, cell phones, and digital photography. Those are now all merging into a single device which will also include books and television. That's the market Google is aiming for -- supporting this single device, be it a cell phone, netbook, laptop, or "home entertainment system" and they are doing it largely with open source software.

In the future I'm pretty sure I'll still be using Linux when Windows 7 is as unused and useless as Windows 3.1 is now. Eventually I believe Windows will merge with the open source WINE giving Microsoft the freedom to do something else.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. In my case
I went from using Firefox, Open Office and VLC (media player) under Windows to using Firefox, Open Office and VLC under Linux.

Not a big change at all.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I am finding that firefox is not firefox.
Thus far I am having no end of troubles with anything flash. Youtube is virtually nonfunctional to me as yet, despite several hours of reading and tinkering. So far that is my only real complaint.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. How did you install it?

This should work:

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-linux-how-to-install-flash-player-for-firefox/

Do this from the CLI, as mentioned above.

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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. ok.
First, what does "sudo" mean.

That worked. Sort of. I can watch at least the first few trial kittehs. But as for continuing on my Samurai Champloo journey via youtube, no. it seems to load superiorly slow, with frequent freezing and after about the 10 minute mark, it locks and stops.

and when it comes to the daily show via http://www.thedailyshow.com/, fergidabout it. Nada.

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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. sudo = substitute user do
This gives you a bunch of things: unrar, Java Runtime Environment, restricted codecs, and flash.

sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras

or you can simply select it from the software center:


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