What about Zool?!

[EFerrari]

Zool does not double. He can't be bothered. He's got nice clean little bubbles and a great sour smell but does.not.double.

I've been pouring him out but for one cup and feeding him in the amounts directed by housewolf. Unbleached bread flour and warm not hot water. Yesterday I added a pinch of sugar which he seemed to enjoy.

He's now three weeks old.

[hippywife]

1. I really wish I knew what to tell you.

I have yet to attempt a sourdough, and always take the easy way out by making the Ain5 with a few tweaks and letting it ferment in the fridge until it somewhat takes on that smell and flavor.

[Warpy]

2. First, you fed him warm water

and, like I keep trying to tell everybody, that's the quickest way I know of to kill yeast.

Second, some of my sourdough starters have had great flavor but wimpy bubbles and have failed to make bread rise. I've used them in the bread dough for flavor but tossed in some regular bread yeast for oomph. The combination gives a great loaf of sourdough bread. Feeding a starter is worth it just for the flavor.

And I never use warm water. Tap water works just fine.

[EFerrari]

3. Zool has great flavor. I know that from the batch of bread that didn't rise

but that I baked anyway.

He doesn't seem dead to me although I'd like to kill him. lol

He's eating and doing something but he doesn't seem very activated or motivated. :)

[Warpy]

4. That's been my problem

so I've always added a pinch of bread yeast to the flour before I dumped in any starter.

That way I get the best of both: good sourdough flavor and bread instead of a cookie.

[EFerrari]

5. I'm going to have to make SOMETHING out of this soon or lie that I did

or my poor mom is going to start worrying about me.

lol

[housewolf]

6. A couple of questions and a suggestion

I had a lot of trouble trying to get a starter to double when I lived in Phoenix. After trying all sorts of things, I finally found 1 brand of bottled water that worked. It seems that there was something going on with either the cholorine, minerals or pH of the water in the area that just inhibited the yeast. Even filtered water wouldn't work, I needed to use a water sourced from somewhere else.

So, I'm wondering... are you using bottled water or tap water? You might want to try some very good bottled water and see if that helps. Warpy mentioned your water temp - I agree with her that room temperature water is fine, up to about 90 degrees. For sourdough, you don't want it to be any warmer than that.

Here's another suggestion... since you are new to sourdough you might have quicker success by obtaining a good, proven starter to work with until you are more familiar with the differences between working with a sourdough starter and baker's yeast. There are a number of sources for sourdough starters but here's one I particularly recommend - the Oregon Trail starter. It has a heritage that goes back to 1847 in continuous production. It's well-tested and very reliable. It will just take you a few days to bring the dried starter up and active. I've known many bakers who have used it and swear by it.

Carl Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail Sourdough Starter - http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

The starter itself is free providing you send a self-addressed stamped envelope. The group that makes the starter available is all volunteer, so if you can afford a small donation to help defray their expenses it will be appreciated. I think it's worth a try for you.

[Warpy]

7. The water might be the problem

Water here in the southwest is loaded with minerals and the mineral salts could very well be inhibiting the yeast, although it doesn't seem to be a problem with my voracious Red Star health food store yeast.

Just don't use bottled mineral water, it defeats the purpose.

You could use distilled water, but that gets a bit expensive. Room temperature is best, though, don't even think of putting it in the fridge.

[EFerrari]

8. I don't see what else it can be. The little guy is trying so hard

and is still clean. We have some good distilled water here. I'm going to try it. Thanks.

[housewolf]

10. I used Arrowhead drinking water when I was having problems

I tried many brands and it worked the best.

Good luck to you. If you're doubling your starter quantity each time you feed and keeping just a small quantity, it really should double in volume for you. If it's a thinner consistency, there should be more bubbles on top but it still should bubble up to double the volume of the level you had right after feeding. If it's a thicker consistency (like equal weights of flour & water), the entire batter should rise to double. If it doesn't, it won't be able to rise a bread dough to where it should be. :-(

[EFerrari]

12. It's so weird ( to me, anyway), the little guy bubbles up a storm

but does not rise. He will not lift. Let's see if the different water helps. :)

[housewolf]

14. Any chance you could take a picture when he's at his max bubbling?

That might help us figure out what's going on.

[EFerrari]

15. I can try. Just fed him about 10 minutes ago. Maybe, in a few hours.

[housewolf]

11. Yeah, baker's yeast is pretty tolerant

it's a lot heartier and way less finicky than sourdough yeast. Red Star and other baker's yeast can tolerate a much greater range of temperature and stuff in their water - that's why it's so much more reliable than sourdough yeast. It's not alway easy to get a good sourdough going but once you do, once you learn its cycle and keep it well-maintained, it can reward you mightily! I didn't have any trouble with starters in Colorado Springs, but Phoenix... now that was a very different story!

[EFerrari]

13. We belong to a water co-op as we're up in the hills and don't have city water.

This water will make your hair feel as if it's been bleached and your skin feel like rice paper if you're not careful. Duh, I should have thought of this.

[EFerrari]

9. I've been using tap water. Good call.

The Oregon Trail starter sounds really interesting! I may ask for some independent of what happens with this experiment. Thanks, housewolf.

[tigereye]

16. this is so funny!

I'm not the yeast baker in the house, my husband is. But we aren't brave enough to try sour-dough. Thanks for making me laugh and good luck to you and Zool!


:rofl:

[EFerrari]

17. Happy Thanksgiving, tigereye!

lol

I really just figured that if people scrambling to keep body and soul together out here in the 19th century wild west could do it, I could at least try it. If I fail, I can buy some bread at the store, grab a drink on the way home and call my therapist.

:rofl:

[Warpy]

18. People who settled the west kept their bread yeast going

from back home via a crock in the wagon. They used it daily and fed it daily, just like you do a sourdough. My guess is that they ate a lot of bread cookies as they crossed the Rockies, although the surface water they used isn't nearly as hard as the deep well water we use now.

In other words, if you want to play pioneer, use bread yeast in your starter. If you really want to play pioneer, just make up a bread and water paste and let it sit until it starts to bubble from wild yeast. Sometimes it will make bread and sometimes it will be so funky you'll just toss it.

My guess is that the first sourdough starter in California was an accident, probably caused when a baker's relative was laid up with childbirth or pneumonia, and found her home starter soured but smelling kinda nice. She baked the bread with it, the baker saw the possibilities, and the sourdough bread tradition was born.

It was a fortuitous combination of exactly the right yeast with exactly the right period of time.