Needing Good, Relatively Inexpensive Knives:

[bicentennial_baby]

Yeah, that's what I need...I'm a college student, so go easy on me in the price dept...Suggestions welcome :D

and Thank You :)

[Stinky The Clown]

1. These are of *excellent* quality for a *very* fair price

If these look too pricey, I understand. There are other choices, too. Let me know and I'll point you to some other choices.

Fantes' house brand are really a terrific value. They sell for half to two-thirds what a comparable name brand version of the same knife would sell for. These will last you a lifetime with ordinary care and regular sharpening. There is **no** compromise in these knives as compared to, say, Henkels, Sabatier, or Wustoff. If you go less expensive, you start give up something to quality, too. You can still find serviceable knives for as low as $15 or $20, but not nearly of the same quality as these.

http://fantes.com/fantes_pro.htm

Here are some earlier posts about knives.

I know this sounds dumb, but just buy "good" knives ....

and

Let's talk cutlery

In both of those threads there was discussion of what makes a good knife. The recommendations, however, were maybe for knives more expensive than you wanted. Read them, though, just so understand the trade-offs if you need to go downmarket a bit.

[NMDemDist2]

2. i may need some too

if a box doesn't disgorge my good carbons soon

:cry:

[Warpy]

3. Check out the sales at Amazon.com

I got a set of Sabatier knives complete with a storage block for $39.00 a couple of years ago. They were an unpopular design, but they are superior knives. Deals like that are pretty frequent.

http://www.overstock.com and http://www.ubid.com are also good sources for knife sets.

I'd suggest MAC knives (also available at Amazon), but they've gotten pricey. My favorite is their Granton edge Santoku knife, set me back $80. I have some from the 70s that I still use daily.

A superior chef's knife will usually run at least $100, but it will last you for your lifetime.

[Richard Steele]

4. A good ULTRA-low-budget option:

Check out thrift stores/Salvation Army types of places.
Apparently there's no real significant market for secondhand
cutlery, so they don't bother to sort the good stuff from
the cheap junk.
There's GOLD in them boxes of rusty junk! (sometimes)


I found my 8" Sabatier Classic Chef in a box of random
kitchen utensils; I had to pay $3 for the entire box.
Since it currently retails for $80 + S&H at the Sabatier website,
it was worth the 20 minutes to clean it and touch up the edge.
I put the rest of the box right back into their donation bin
in the parking lot.

I have found a few good quality no-names the same way
for $2 or less.
One thing to look for is a blade THICKNESS that tapers
evenly from grip to tip; that's usually a sign of a good
forged blade.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. If you live near a Marshalls or Home Goods ......

.... shop there. The stock changes frequently and the best way is to jump on a buy when you see it, cuz it may not be there tomorrow.

I've seen all manner of knives there. They have overstocks of big name stuff for reasonable prices and they often have a huge inventory of lower end name brand stuff.

Last year I bought a bunch of 7" Wusthoff Santoku knives as gifts. They were from their "European" (I think it was) line, made in Spain. They cost the princely sum of 12 bux each.

I'd try to avoid most (but not all) of what is made in China. The low price is not so much the result of cheap labor as it is lower quality metal. They'll dull faster. To be sure, they are, in fact, quite serviceable. But they really lack the quality metalurgy of European steel. The upside is that they're very inexpensive and they are a whoooooole lot better than true junk knives of the same price.

Another place to look is a restaurant supply house. Most are open to the public like any other retail store. (I'm not talking about yuppieville kitchen places, but true commercial restaurant supply places, often in seedy neighborhoods.) One excellent brand not available anywhere else is Dexter/Russell. They have two lines. One is made in the US and is top quality, albeit not fancy-pretty. It is, I think, the 'Professional' line. The other line is made in China and is called 'International'. Both have funny looking white plastic handles instead of the stylish and more common black.

Here's a picture that shows the handle on an assortment of knife styles.



One thing to note about this line ..... they do not make a bolstered knife.

[NMDemDist2]

6. whatis a "bolstered" knife?

my education continues....

[Stinky The Clown]

7. The bolster is the thick heavy part between the handle and the blade

I stole this picture from DickSteele's post, above. It is a bolstered knife.



The chef's knife (leftmost) in my picture of the four knives, posted above, has no bolster.

I think there was a more detailed discussion of bolsters in the links in my earlier post, above.

[bicentennial_baby]

8. Wow, thank you all!

Great info and suggestions!! :bounce:

[mike_c]

9. one other point about knives is that you can do an awful lot...

...with the right knife. I got by for several years with one good chef's knife and one good chinese cleaver. The chefs knife is a 10 incher but that's just because it fits my hand and feels better than an 8 inch knife. I have a bunch more good knives today, but most of them stay on the rack semipermanently-- that chef's knife hardly ever goes back on the rack-- I just leave it on the cutting board because it is still my knife of choice 99 times out of 100.

So what I'm trying to say is that if you can conjure a hundred dollars to spend on a some decent knives, you might be better off spending it all on one really good knife (and a steel, of course). Learn how to keep it sharp and do it religiously, then wait and buy another knife later when you get a real feel for what your one good one doesn't do well.

on edit-- I should say too that I bought the cleaver first-- a well made thin blade carbon steel chinese cleaver is an amazing tool. Not good for whacking soup bones like a french cleaver, but once you get used to using it you can do a lot with it, including surprisingly delicate jobs. Nonetheless, a really good chef's knife ought to be at the top of everyone's list, IMO.

[TygrBright]

10. I could get by on three knives...

...one cheap and two the best money can buy.

The cheap one (not really cheap except compared to the others) is a straight, serrated knife usually called a "bread knife" but as far as I'm concerned it's the only way to slice maters.

The others are a really good chef's knife and a really good paring knife.

With those three I can do just about anything that needs doing.

That said, given druthers I'm happy I have a couple of extra good-quality parers, also an excellent cleaver, a 6-in utility knife, and a carving set. One of these days I'll get around to buying a good kitchen shears and a steel that has a handle that stays on, and then I'll have nothing more to want...

dreamily,
Bright

[mike_c]

12. slicing 'maters....

What I do is make sure my chef's knife is good and sharp, then steel it. Unless the edge is dulled and worn, it's actually "serrated" at a micro level, i.e. has very fine imperfections. That's why it needs to be sharp-- if it is it will have a distinctive feel when I strop it against a finger tip-- I liken it to feeling "tingly." I give it a brief polishing on a sharpening stone if it needs it. A couple of strokes on the steel straighten the edge out so those micro imperfections point downward rather than being curled. Such a knife strokes through tomatoes like soft air.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. mike, I agree with your and Bright's response, below ......

I have a pretty extensive knife selection (remember, I went to chef's school and worked in the field for a while), but that Chef/French knife is my go-to guy. My curent one is an 8" Sabatier. But I also have a 10" and a 12". I used to use the 10, but it just got to be too heavy now that I only cook for two of us more often than not.

And I agree completely, that one knife is the workhorse. In fact, I would bet you've even done finer paring knife work with it on occasion. I know I have. I've even boned out whole chickens while leaving the skin intact; most people tell you this has to be done with a boning kinfe or even a paring kinfe - piffle!

There is only one knife I have that can't be substituted for. My long, ultra flexy fish fileting knife. I don't use it all that often, but it is one knife for which nothing can substitute.

Your advice is good for a new cook - buy the very best chef's knife and a steel and punt for the rest.

[mike_c]

13. lol-- you know, I just can't seem to get used to an 8 inch knife....

I have eight and ten inch Henckels Four Stars-- I love that handle-- but I've had the ten inch knife the longest. I bought it because it felt right in my hand in the store, I dunno, ten years ago? I bought the eight inch knife a couple of years ago, just because a smaller, lighter knife seemed somehow necessary (and I was going through a knife buying phase anyway, LOL). The smaller knife IS lighter, but the bigger blade seems better balanced and it seems like an extention of my hand. Design and balance is everything in a good knife. I've never used a Sabatier.

And yeah, you're right-- I can peel citrus zest with it up near the bolster, holding the knife like a plane iron, and bone a chicken with the tip edge.

BTW, have you seen the Zwilling J. A. Henckels web pages lately? Now THAT'S advertising! http://www.zwilling.com/country/ww/language/en/home

Hubba hubba.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Fatal Attraction Meets Food Network

Sex sells, I guess :)

[Warpy]

18. Agreed about the Chinese cleaver

Once you get the hang of using one, it's hard to go back to western knives.

I noticed that I stopped slicing my fingers once I'd gotten the cleaver and leaned how to use it.

I have two. The two cleaver method is the easiest way out there to grind meat, just alternate whacks between them until you've got the texture you want. Cleanup is a board and two knives, much easier than a grinder or food processor!

I use mine constantly. It is a way to scoop the veggies off the board after you've chopped them as well as a way to chop everything. It's what I use to peel ginger and water chestnuts without slicing fingers.

One cleaver is from China, from their version of a neighborhood Woolworth's. The other is from a knife store, one of my big purchases about 30 years ago when I was first learning how to cook Chinese food. They are my most prized kinives, followed by the MACs and Sabatiers.

[bicentennial_baby]

15. I'm loving this thread!

Now I've got y'all talking! :bounce:

:D

Thanks :)

[midnight armadillo]

16. how is $50?

knife ratings:
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=129&title=Chef%27s+Knives+Rated

Tojiro DP F-808, $50 from JapaneseChefsKnife.com. I plan on getting one soon.

[politicat]

17. Get used to using a steel and stone, no matter what you end up with.

Standing in the kitchen, looking at the block, I've got a rather odd assortment of knives. I use cheap, Chefsmate paring knives (serrated edge, short blades) instead of those horrid things people call steak knives. They're $1.50 at Target. We have an ancient thing that DH adores (some serrated thing from long ago.) It cuts tomatoes nicely. Everything else... not so much. The bread knife is a heavy bladed serrated knife from Farberware. I've got an Oneida carving knife and fork, and a couple of unknowns that are carbon steel and a Hampton Forge (Target's house brand, I think) chef knife and a cleaver and set of sushi knives I got at the Asian housewares and grocery store. And I have a box of single edged razor blades and those metal, semi-disposable box cutters that I use for really fine work; the metal case is on a magnet glued to the side of the block. Oh, and I have two pairs of kitchen scissors - both Fiskars and both from a gardening set that I bought specifically for the kitchen. The shears are used for most things that don't require a lot of force, and I have a small pruner that I use for cutting up chickens and things like that.

In other words, I don't have a set, unless you want to call having mostly black handles (that old thing DH loves isn't black) and full tangs a set. I will say that the most expensive knife in the collection was less than $50.

I am not a professional - I leave that side of the house to Husb2Sparkly. But I am picky about my knives and until not terribly long ago, was on the type of budget that you're on now... or possibly smaller. (Really. Shrinks don't make much in their first few years of practice, and most of that money goes to paying the malpractice insurance. The rest goes to student loans, and if we're lucky, the Feds let us keep enough to eat on... but not pay rent.) What I do have is a triangular sharpening stone and a very good steel. I got the stone at the Asian store; it's Japanese and has three grades on one block. It came with a wooden stand that holds it in the right position so I'm not trying to juggle stone and knife in my hands. The steel was a present from my grandfather and has been around forever and a day, but it's basically the same design as is available now for $10 at Bed Bath & Beyond Reason.

There are several online tutorials on how to sharpen knives, but if you can find someone local who knows how to do so, get him or her to teach you. There's only so much you can learn from reading and looking at pictures. I learned from my grandfather who was an absolute demon about sharpening knives - every Saturday morning while my grandmother took the car to the grocery. She used a steel to set the edge every time she used the knives during the week. That's the routine - sharpen regularly and use a steel in between. Since I'm not cooking for an army, I can get away with sharpening every 2 weeks or so, and having the edges reground once a year. My hardware store offers this as a service. (That's another discussion entirely.)

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Lots of good stuff ... and lots of personal stuff ......

This has been a good thread so far. Lots of good info and some really fun insight into how personal is one's relationship with one's tools.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Buy one good knife.

I second H2S's suggestion to scout out places like Marshall's. Building 19 is where I used to buy high quality kitchenware and linens when I lived in Boston -- definitely give them a look. When I was barely beyond college student I bought Henckel paring and utility knifes at discount stores and saved my money until I could afford a good chef's knife. These days I probably would have sprung for a Santoku style knife before a chef's knife as the first 'good' knife.

There used to be a restaurant supply house on the edge of Chinatown (maybe on Washington St, but I can't recall) --- if it's still there, check out their offerings.

[Warpy]

21. Remember the Quincy Bargain Center?

That's where I got my Sabatier cleaver for two bucks.

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Wrong end of town for me.

I was on the Cambridge side of the river. China Fair was a great local place for us. Do you remember the Chinatown place? I'm blanking out on the name but it was a restaurant supply outlet and was loaded with good stuff.

[Warpy]

25. I use to go to the Asian Supermarket

I left town the day after the place burned down <sniff>.

I always took the T out to the Bargain Center. It closed in the early 80s, bought out by Building 19 and sold for condos.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I was in Home Goods this afternoon.

They had a very nice selection of what all appeared to be very serviceable knives, including 8" and 10" chef's knives and larger Santokus (a reasonable alternative to a chef's knife). None were more than $30. Some were from China, some from Spain, some from Portugal. They had a few of some name I never heard of, but they were from Germany.

[bicentennial_baby]

24. Sweet, thanks

:D