DNA explodes Greek myth about women

[BadgerKid]

...

'The problem has been that up until recently our interpretation of life in Ancient Greece has been the work of a previous generations of archaeologists, then a male-oriented profession and who interpreted their findings in a male-oriented way. That is changing now and women in Ancient Greece are being seen in a new light.'

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/01/genetics.sciencenews?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

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A summary doesn't do the fine narrative justice. Just read the article :hi:

[Lorien]

1. Here's three paragraphs from the article:

Women in Ancient Greece were major power brokers in their own right, researchers have discovered, and often played key roles in running affairs of state. Until now it was thought they were treated little better than servants.

The discovery is part of an investigation by Manchester researchers into the founders of Mycenae, Europe's first great city-state and capital of King Agamemnon's domains.

'It was thought that in those days women were rated as little more than chattels in Ancient Greece,' said Professor Terry Brown, of the faculty of life sciences at Manchester University. 'Our work now suggests that notion is wrong.'

[roguevalley]

6. during the golden age, a woman was muy powerful, Pericles'

mistress. what a gal she was. :)

[NMDemDist2]

2. fascinating, thanks! n/t

[JDPriestly]

3. That is a wonderful find. Thanks for posting this.

[JDPriestly]

4. I have to add to my own post. Isn't the powerful role of women obvious from the story of Antigone,

in fact do the stories in so many of the Greek comedies and tragedies.

[midnight]

5. man and the woman were of equal status and had equal power.

this discovery shows both the man and the woman were of equal status and had equal power,' he said. 'Women in Ancient Greece held positions of power by right of birth, it now appears.

'The problem has been that up until recently our interpretation of life in Ancient Greece has been the work of a previous generations of archaeologists, then a male-oriented profession and who interpreted their findings in a male-oriented way.

Most women already knew this-that women have equal power and status. Women in ancient Ireland had all it's power stripped away via Rome. It happened little by little like what is happening to our constitution. So women we are coming full circle to our power.

[roguevalley]

7. this is great news. I wonder what they will find about Roman women.

i bet they truly were second class. (Sorry. I have a problem with the Roman Empire and historians, et al stating that no matter how much slaughter and destruction and oppression they made of the cultures and people they invaded, it was all for the good. You see, they got roads and big buildings out of the deal) Sheesh!

[Prophet 451]

8. Probably

There's a lot more surviving material from Rome so it's easier to make an educated guess. Chances are that Roman women were generally (not always but mostly) treated as second-class. Some would have amassed power behind the scenes in the way that the politically minded always do but for the most part, their major worth was either their family name (since nobility could transmit through marriage) or ability to produce offspring.

On the subject of the Roman legacy, I'd say it's mixed. The good bits aren't big buildings and roads but formalised law (stolen from Hammurabi by way of the Greeks), organised knowledge (ditto) and politics and the invention of the professional army (admittedly, a double-edged sword). On the bad side, there's lots of blood, death, slavery and slaughter. Whether one outweighs the other is up to you.

[Raster]

9. There is a reason "his story" is called history.

[Beregond2]

10. They found one pair of siblings buried together,

and from that they extrapolate all these assumptions? Give me a break. No reputable archeoloist would begin to posit a theory until they had lots and lot of evidence in support of it. This is ridiculous.

[slay]

11. I agree - this article doesn't seem to prove anything

But hey if it makes people feel better to believe that women ran Greece in some way, whatever, I could care less, but the proof is sooooo not there in this article.

[truedelphi]

12. Badger Kid, can I relate a personal experience with the "myths" of the male viewpoint

With regards to anthopology?

For a while, I had this book 'Origins" and it had many fine photographs and also many fine discussions of the work of Leakey.

There was a centerfold photo - and the photo was the portrait of perhaps two Bushmen, one male, one female. Both were travelling through the brush.

They were scantily clad, wearing only G strings really.

The woman preceeded the man on the trail, and she carried a machete with which she was clearly hacking the brush aside so they could continue their travels.

on her head was a basket with all their worldly goods. And she was about seven to nine months pregnant, to boot!

Meanwhile, he was carrying a dainty little bow and quiver with arrows, and he held a cigarette.

Now get this: the caption read - "In all the societies and cultures in the world, the man is bigger, and faster and stronger than the female."

To which I could only roll my eyes and think, "If he's so friggin' strong, why doesn't he carry the basket and hack the brush and ...!"

[Indenturedebtor]

13. True there is definately a bias out there

But that still doesn't make it ok to say that this find should change our entire view of Greek history. No matter how much we may want something to be true, we can't just throw the rules of good scientific analysis out the window.

[truedelphi]

14. Well now that ancient videos of

"I love Lucieleisis" have been discovered, it is clear that the husband had to pay attention to the little woman or else (Like, or else she would appear on his band stage dressed in a tutu with her friend Ethelmennian)
:-)

[Indenturedebtor]

15. Lol too funny

What this article also failed to mention is that we do um kinda have lots and lots of Greek Literature lying around that's um rather androcentric.

[BadgerKid]

17. She's such a slacker.

:sarcasm:

In stories such as this we see only a slice of the truth. Here, the hunter has to be mobile enough to carry on with the chase.

I think the notion of slice of the truth also applies to history. I've commented elsewhere about "revisionist history in the making" which drew criticism (and I just haven't gotten around to responding yet -- sorry!). What bothers me about history is that the truth we know today will be attempted to be rewritten. With the internet, maybe that will have less of a chance from happening.

[YankeyMCC]

22. Well of course - he's mnaged to make the poor woman to do all the work

:eyes:

PS: I know exactly what you mean.

[Book Lover]

16. Whoa, extrapolate much?

One gravesite of one rich woman does not outweigh all the literary evidence contradicting the assertion in this article.

[SteppingRazor]

18. I gotta agree with that. I think this says more about class than about gender.

If this was a royal or aristocratic family, it's not surprising that all of them wear buried in opulence. The same was true for Romans, Egyptians and a whole host of ancient civilizations -- what passed for normal among the upper class did not necessarily reflect the views and customs of the lower classes, especially in the extreme social stratification of an extremely early European civilization (read: Mycenae, as opposed to the larger Greek civilization that would come much later.)

[pokerfan]

19. I thought this was going to be about teeth

Aristotle, though married twice, said that men have more teeth than women. :wtf:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. As I recall, Mycenean Greece was a long time before the

heyday of the Athenians.

You might as well try to prove something about modern Europe from unearthing one medieval tomb.

[pokerfan]

21. deleted