My son's Osgood-Schlatters was helped by acupuncture.

[mzteris]

I don't care what those who "don't believe in it say" about this subject.

FlAME AWAY because I DON"T CARE what you say about it.

Before acupuncture - pain.

After acupuncture - NO PAIN.

My son was in excruciating pain for over a year and was taking a daily regimen of painkillers two and three times a day. He saw two sports doctors and received physical therapy.

Maybe it's a "coincidence" - that after starting acupuncture - he became pain free.

Maybe we're deranged.

Maybe we're delusional.

Maybe I don't give a damn. My son isn't taking ibuprofen, acetaminophen, nsaids three times a day and still crying in pain.


YMMV - and I don't give a rats patootie if you don't "believe" in acupuncture.

sp.

[Skittles]

1. you want I should kick anti-acupuncture ass, mzteris?

I believe in it because I've known people it has helped; yes INDEED

[mzteris]

6. thanks skittles

I get sick of people mouthing off about things they are incapable of comprehending.

[elleng]

2. To 'not believe in acupuncture' is to disregard centuries of experience,

and is extremely foolish, imo.

GOOD NEWS!

[laconicsax]

14. Same with geocentrism!

We can elect to view the world as it appears or as research has revealed it to be.

[Odin2005]

15. Astrology is based on 3000 of expereince, but it's still complete BS.

[elleng]

17. Guess what, Odin: Experience means A LOT.

'Jupiter, Neptune, and Chiron have been traveling together in late Aquarius during the past year and a half. It is what has brought us a new “wind of change” with Obama and the Health Care movement and all the political upheaval. These changes have manifested on many, many levels besides politics. Mostly, since it really directs itself towards the collective, we are changing from within. Whether you like it or not, the winds of change are powerfully amidst us now. Granted, you may or may not care for the way they are manifesting, nevertheless, they are here because they need to be. Clearly and somewhat ironically, these new “spiritual upthrust” energies “just so happen” to be occurring during one of the darkest astrological periods of the past century, i.e., Saturn traveling opposite Uranus and Jupiter, all making a right-angle, or T-square to Pluto. So, we have the heavyweight Plutonian T-square along with the Neptune-Chiron conjunction.

Jupiter moved on just about the time of the death of Teddy Kennedy, almost as if he wasn’t “needed” anymore. Now, renegade and newbie “planetoid,” Chiron is paired with ye ole mystical cloud called Neptune. As Neptune was highlighted in last month’s newsletter, we can see just how hard it is to measure or delineate Neptune fuzzy spiritual effects.


Make no mistake about it: Neptune’s effects are always great and quite widespread


It is a major contributor the prevailing feeling of insanity in this land. Make no mistake about it. We are in a new world. It has never occurred before.'

http://www.starself.com/newsletter59.html

[Odin2005]

18. Oh what bullshit.

[laconicsax]

24. If Neptune's effects are always great and quite widespread...

Why didn't anyone within the astrology community know the planet even existed until AFTER it was discovered in 1846?

Same goes for Uranus--if it has any real effects, why didn't astrologers include it in their charts until AFTER it was discovered in 1781?

Why wasn't Pluto included in Astrological predictions until AFTER it was discovered in 1930?

[elleng]

27. Rick responds:

Good questions, beautiful language, astrology is
FEEL it, don't intellectualize it. . .

The planets didn't "exist" until they were found. Out of consciousness means out of consciousness.
We weren't "ready" for their corresponding archetypal energies until we were.

Same for the demotion of Pluto, in someway, somehow, we're DONE with Pluto. We don't know yet b/c it's too early.

Just like our "discovery" of Chiron in 1977, we became ready , one and the same. That's when healing went beyond he hands of the Doctors

[laconicsax]

28. Sorry, wrong. Reality operates independently of our beliefs.

Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto existed for billions of years before they were discovered. Arguing that something didn't exist until it was discovered is a self-defeating argument. For example, how could Hershel have discovered Uranus if it didn't exist prior to him training his telescope on it?

You might as well argue object impermanence.

Astrology is pre-scientific nonsense having zero basis in reality.

[superduperfarleft]

42. .

:wow:

Do you really believe any of that, or are you just being cute?

[HuckleB]

31. Pure hogwash.

Acupuncture and history: The “ancient” therapy that’s been around for several decades
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=7660

Astrology with needles
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=583

Oriental Medicine or Medical Orientalism?
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=930

Modern Bloodletting
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099

[jemsan]

3. I'm with you. Acupuncture is amazing and Osgood-Schlatters is VERY painful.

Acupuncture is great for many things. People need to keep an open mind!

[mzteris]

7. exactly.

I'm happy to share my experience.

Doctors will tell you there is "NO TREATMENT' for Osgood-Schlatters - you have to outgrow it and just suffer in the meantime.

Bulls---.

I don't care if it's a "placebo" or a jedi-freaking-mind-trick - it WORKED.

[monmouth]

4. I had a friend years ago with psoriasis, acupuncture helped her greatly...n/t

[MineralMan]

5. I had Osgood-Schlatter's when I was a kid.

It did hurt. I ignored it. It went away. Does acupuncture help. Apparently so. Why so defensive about it?

If it works, go ahead and use it. I just dealt when I was a kid. I didn't take anything. It hurt. I got on with it. It stopped hurting when I was 16. I still have a prominent bump on my knee. It doesn't hurt now.

Note: You might want to correct the spelling while you can still edit your post.

[mzteris]

10. why so defensive indeed?

:rofl:

Some people have more pain than others.

My son "got on with it, too". He REFUSED to stop doing his activities - for a number of reasons. but he did them in the face of great pain. He was ELEVEN - and watching him cry from the pain - watching him have severe stomach upset on top of it because of all the painkillers - was just too much.

I figured, what did we have to lose? So what if it costs money? There comes a point where $$ doesn't matter anymore, ya know?

I just want people to know that there is another option to try for this.

[MineralMan]

12. By defensive, I mean attacking those who would poo-poo

your story, long before anyone did. Did I not say that if it works, that's good? My problem with your post is that you assumed that you were going to be attacked for your story. Why? I'm as opposed to quackery as anyone, but acupuncture seems to produce results for some people. Why would you not try it?

O-S is a self-limiting syndrome, pretty much. It goes away in adolescence, almost 100% of the time. I remember my doctor, back in the late 1950s, identifying why my knee hurt all the time, and why there was a big painful bump on it. He couldn't really do anything about it, but told me to avoid banging my knee on stuff, since that would aggravate the pain.

Eventually it got better. I would have tried acupuncture, but it wasn't around back then. I took aspiring, and used hot compresses. They both helped.

Oddly enough, later in life, that bump developed a chronic infection, which persisted because I kept banging my knee. That went away, too, with antibiotics and hot compresses.

I'm sorry your kid has O-S. It will almost certainly go away in his teens.

On edit: You'll notice that nobody has said anything against this treatment, have they? Your last sentence in the OP was just simply defensive, and for no reason. Now, if you mentioned that you used some homeopathic medication, I'd have been all over it. Acupuncture? Not so much. It works for some people on some things.

[mzteris]

19. I had just been

attacked repeatedly in another thread about this is why. Anyone who dares post anything positive about acupuncture is attacked and derided and insulted ad nauseum . . .

And you're right - it *could* be coincidental - I've stated that repeatedly, too - but surprisingly coincidental. And - the nuances of pain here pain gone that almost exactly dovetailed missed appointments, etc - well :shrug: - seems a wee bit too coincidental, doncha know? but still - it could be. And it *could* be a "placebo effect" as some claim - and as I've states - so what? It worked and that's all that matters when you have a kid in pain, you know?

I didn't mean to come off as being upset with you, but my dander was considerably raised from earlier exchanges on the subject. Sorry you got caught in the cross-fire.

[HuckleB]

40. Funny that you insist on posting your anecdote sans context in every acupuncture thread.

And you wonder why people point out the worthlessness of a single anecdote?

:eyes:

As for your "So what?" There is no evidence to support the practice, thus it's a legal scam. Unless we are going to make all scams legal, there is no basis for acupuncturists to get away with selling a worthless product.

[Kali]

8. "believing in" = faith

I am pretty sure pain relief with acupuncture has been pretty well accepted by the scientific community.

Now will it work for everybody or cure everything under the sun? Hell no, but then what will?

[HuckleB]

22. Actually, it has not been accepted by the scientific community.

The evidence indicates that acupuncture equates to placebo at best.

[Kali]

25. really?

I don't know that much about it but do know it is used quite a bit in veterinary medicine for lameness in horses and hip problems in dogs so that is where I came to the conclusion it had become pretty much accepted...

[HuckleB]

30. Very few vets buy into the scam.

Animal acupuncture
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=519

Is There a Placebo Effect for Animals?
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=263

More on the matter, in general:

CONTROLS FOR ACUPUNCTURE STUDIES ARE IMPROVING. THEIR RESULTS ARE NOT. HOW ARE PEER REVIEWERS REACTING?
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/acupuncture_real_or_sham/

[Kali]

33. well the very few that we HAVE around here seem to

thanks for the articles though - like I said it isn't anything I have personal experience with, but thought it had become more acceptable...

[HuckleB]

34. We seem to be living in an age where many buy into practices without evidence.

What's scary, is that many of those who do are among those who should understand the scientific method.

[Kali]

35. well that makes a certain amount of sense

my impression of the "effectiveness" was for dogs and horses - the horsey crowd can be REALLY into alternative BS and they tend to have a lot of extra cash, and obviously MANY Americans often blur the line between human and pet, so almost can't blame the vets for letting the gullible pay for harmless (?) "treatments"

Still it seems like I read something recently (in Science News?) about acupuncture and pain relief or was it anesthesia? I tend to be mostly science based, but willing to let the oddball things get looked at and tested...sometimes the conventional science dogma gets a shake-up.

[HuckleB]

36. That study showed that acupuncture can be seen having an effect on the brain for acute pain.

Another study that came out last spring, showed the exact same effect for simple touch.

In other words, if you poke a needle into someone, his or her brain registers the fact, just as it does if you touch someone, or if an individual touches himself.

Somehow, the researchers try to pretend that the study shows more than that.

[ZombieHorde]

9. I have kids; I am really glad your son is no longer in pain.

Though I don't think the argument is the needles don't help, I think the argument is the placement of the needles doesn't really matter. According to my understanding of the argument, you are just as qualified to perform this treatment as your son's acupuncturist.

[laconicsax]

13. +1

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laconicsax]

21. That's your opinion, and it isn't backed up by facts. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

26. I have never seen a deleted message off of a "+1" reply before.

Strange. I wish I saw it.

[blue neen]

11. Hey, whatever works.

I'm glad to hear that he's pain free. The toughest thing in the world is to watch your child suffer.

From one mom to another...:fistbump:

[Odin2005]

16. Yeah, and those delusional parents are SO SURE that vaccines made their kids autistic.

That doesn't mean they are right. :eyes:

the human mind is easily deluded and deceived by BS

[HuckleB]

23. +1

[Codeine]

41. Pre-fucking-cisely. nt

[Celebration]

29. So glad it helped him

That can be so painful.

[HuckleB]

32. Reality check.

There is no scientific basis for using acupuncture to treat Osgood-Schlatters. Further, the inflammation diminishes for the majority of patients, with time. The likely reality is that your son's body healed just like the majority of other patients with Osgood-Schlatters. Unfortunately, you got stuck with a bill you didn't need to pay.

[HuckleB]

37. It's painfully easy to trick the mind into seeing things that aren't there

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/03/bad-science-manipulate-mind-causality

[uppityperson]

38. I'm glad it worked and he got relief from his pain. Pain really sucks.

[BuddhaGirl]

39. It's great that the acupuncture gave him relief

Acupuncture is amazing! Just keep doing what works for you and your son, that's all that matters. :thumbsup: