Metallothionein, genetics and why the argument against heavy

[HysteryDiagnosis]

metal toxicity persists. The argument persists because people fail to understand that genetics can make you able to handle environmental insults as well as make you unable to handle them. This research is RECENT.... and it is true in the extreme.

Biomarkers. 2009 May;14(3):171-80.
The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio as a biomarker in children with autism spectrum disorders.

Faber S, Zinn GM, Kern JC 2nd, Kingston HM.

The Children's Institute, 1405 Shady Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA. [e-mail]

The frequency of zinc deficiency, copper toxicity and low zinc/copper in children with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) may indicate decrement in metallothionein system functioning. A retrospective review of plasma zinc, serum copper and zinc/copper was performed on data from 230 children with autistic disorder, pervasive developmental disorder-NOS and Asperger's syndrome. The entire cohort's mean zinc level was 77.2 microg dl(-1), mean copper level was 131.5 microg dl(-1), and mean Zn/Cu was 0.608, which was below the 0.7 cut-off of the lowest 2.5% of healthy children. The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio may be a biomarker of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxicity in children with ASDs.

PMID: 19280374

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Continuing with the theme.

Curr Med Chem. 2009;16(2):157-70.
Immune-glutamatergic dysfunction as a central mechanism of the autism spectrum disorders.

Blaylock RL, Strunecka A.

Belhaven College, Jackson, Mississippi, USA.

Despite the great number of observations being made concerning cellular and the molecular dysfunctions associated with autism spectrum disorders (ASD), the basic central mechanism of these disorders has not been proposed in the major scientific literature. Our review brings evidence that most heterogeneous symptoms of ASD have a common set of events closely connected with dysregulation of glutamatergic neurotransmission in the brain with enhancement of excitatory receptor function by pro-inflammatory immune cytokines as the underlying mechanism.

We suggest that environmental and dietary excitotoxins, mercury, fluoride, and aluminum can exacerbate the pathological and clinical problems by worsening excitotoxicity and by microglial priming. In addition, each has effects on cell signaling that can affect neurodevelopment and neuronal function. Our hypothesis opens the door to a number of new treatment modes, including the nutritional factors that naturally reduce excitotoxicity and brain inflammation.

PMID: 19149568

[Th1onein]

2. Cool. I'm into metallothionein....

My screen name, th1onein, is the apo form (without metals attached) of the protein. I've studied this protein for years.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. An interesting point regarding this protein or the poorly formed

versions of it is that it is involved in gastrointestinal inflammatory processes, a hallmark of various autistic spectrum disorders. I have become extremely interested in finding ways to enhance MT's function... supplements or drugs.

I see the word "potential" and do understand its meaning.... however, one does tend to see "potential" connections when the gastro issues in ASD are considered.

Mediators Inflamm. 2009;2009:729172. Epub 2009 Aug 26.
Evidence for a potential role of metallothioneins in inflammatory bowel diseases.

Waeytens A, De Vos M, Laukens D.

Department of Gastroenterology, Ghent University, De Pintelaan 185, 9000 Gent, Belgium. [e-mail]

Inflammatory bowel diseases (IBDs) are a group of chronic, relapsing, immune-mediated disorders of the intestine, including Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. Recent studies underscore the importance of the damaged epithelial barrier and the dysregulated innate immune system in their pathogenesis. Metallothioneins (MTs) are a family of small proteins with a high and conserved cysteine content that are rapidly upregulated in response to an inflammatory stimulus. Herein, we review the current knowledge regarding the expression and potential role of MTs in IBD. MTs exert a central position in zinc homeostasis, modulate the activation of the transcription factor nuclear factor (NF)-kappaB, and serve as antioxidants. In addition, MTs could be involved in IBD through their antiapoptotic effects or through specific immunomodulating extracellular effects. Reports on MT expression in IBD are contradictory but clearly demonstrate a deviant MT expression supporting the idea that these aberrations in IBD require further clarification.

PMID: 19727408

[tavalon]

7. As I'm sure you know, DU is not a place where people are interested in autism

and its causes and potential treatments. But I've been looking at the metallothionine dysfunction for quite a while. I'd love to talk to you by PM.

My son has the gut issues from his autism. We have had good luck controlling the symptoms with a gluten/casein free diet but I am quite aware that we are controlling the symptoms while not dealing with the direct issue. Honestly, just trying to keep our heads above water with a severely autistic teenager has made tackling this issue with so little medical support rather daunting.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. I don't see why you wouldn't find some good information at

the site dedicated to Dr. Rimland.


www.autism.com

[tavalon]

12. Yeah, I have, actually. I know the DAN protocol well though I prefer Andy Cutler's protocol

But, I haven't put as much into practice as I would like. We're on megavitamins, zinc, antiepileptics, diet,etc. We haven't had the gumption to restart the chelation and really, he's almost 15. While they've now discovered that brains retain their plasticity more than we used to think, the magic years are far behind us. Frankly, a good day is one where our son doesn't poop on his bedroom floor and a great day is one where he uses words to get something he wants. When I first researched all of this, I had endless attention and interest and a huge fire in my belly. Now, I just try to get through the day. Autism has really taken it's toll on this family.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

20. At the risk of sounding like a quack or a network marketer......

have you ever looked into glyconutrients to see if they might help?

http://www.glyconutrientsreference.com/whoneedsglyconutrients/medicalconditions/autism.html

Disclaimer: I have absolutely nothing to do with this site nor this product, I do however take it on a daily basis.

[trotsky]

22. Hehe

At the risk of sounding like a quack or a network marketer...

Oh I'm pretty sure you turned that corner a long, long time ago.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. Denmark is interested as well.... it's interesting that when clinics

that were ahead of their time looking into the role of MTs in neurological disorders developed programs to help deal with said disorders, they were pilloried and labeled quacks. Seems to me they were just ahead of their time.


Biofactors. 2009 Jul-Aug;35(4):315-25.
Metallothionein-I+II in neuroprotection.

Pedersen MØ, Jensen R, Pedersen DS, Skjolding AD, Hempel C, Maretty L, Penkowa M.

Section of Neuroprotection, Institute of Neuroscience and Pharmacology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, Denmark.

Metallothionein (MT)-I+II synthesis is induced in the central nervous system (CNS) in response to practically any pathogen or disorder, where it is increased mainly in reactive glia. MT-I+II are involved in host defence reactions and neuroprotection during neuropathological conditions, in which MT-I+II decrease inflammation and secondary tissue damage (oxidative stress, neurodegeneration, and apoptosis) and promote post-injury repair and regeneration (angiogenesis, neurogenesis, neuronal sprouting and tissue remodelling).

Intracellularly the molecular MT-I+II actions involve metal ion control and scavenging of reactive oxygen species (ROS) leading to cellular redox control.

By regulating metal ions, MT-I+II can control metal-containing transcription factors, zinc-finger proteins and p53. However, the neuroprotective functions of MT-I+II also involve an extracellular component. MT-I+II protects the neurons by signal transduction through the low-density lipoprotein family of receptors on the cell surface involving lipoprotein receptor-1 (LRP1) and megalin (LRP2). In this review we discuss the newest data on cerebral MT-I+II functions following brain injury and experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis.

PMID: 19655389

[trotsky]

37. This is simply not true.

they were pilloried and labeled quacks

Totally false. Heavy metal poisoning and the body's ability to excrete said metals have always been valid science. You do not get to rewrite history to create martyrs and thereby bash the establishment.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Link to another thread, important paper for you....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=75176&mesg_id=77364

[tavalon]

6. I've known that for years

The fact that scientists didn't is testament to their ability not to look in places their employers don't want them to.

Autism is the a perfect storm of genetics related to metallothionein function (or, in the case of autism, dysfunction) and the early introduction of heavy metals from the environment (including ethyl mercury injected into their muscles at an early age).

My generation had less autism and as much or more ADHD than the current generation. We got far fewer vaccines at later ages but we had the same genetics but the environmental insults at a later age caused those of us with the genetics to get ADHD. Nowadays, those with the genetic markers for being on the autism spectrum generally manifest full blown autism because the environmental insults or earlier and more numerous.

[trotsky]

8. Except they've looked into that, and found no link.

...However, MT dysfunction has not specifically been linked to autistic spectrum disorders. A 2006 study, investigating children exposed to the ethylmercury vaccine preservative thiomersal, found that levels of MT and antibodies to MT in autistic children did not differ significantly from normal children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallothionein

[tavalon]

11. Always the same names on these threads

Look, I did my research and you did yours and we've come to different conclusions.

[trotsky]

13. Just like the right-wingers who deny climate change!

Phooey on those pointy-headed scientists - you know the TROOF! Gotta love how FAUX news has dumbed down and "equalized" the debate.

[tavalon]

14. I am a medical professional

I don't suppose you knew that, eh?

Thanks for the ad hominem. I'm sure you'll convince plenty of people with that.

[trotsky]

17. I have no pretenses of convincing the TROOFERS in this forum.

They are wedded to their beliefs and their desire to BLAME someone.

I only want other observers to see that the real science and real data tell a different story than what the fearmongers and conspiracy theorists are pushing.

[HuckleB]

15. More like you've chosen to ignore all research that doesn't agree with your preconceived notions.

[tavalon]

16. Oh, shit!

Two years of extensive research down the toilet! All that time spent at the UW medical library destroyed by my inability to understand research! I just needed to hear it from you. Thanks so much.

:sarcasm:

[HuckleB]

18. You can make whatever claims you want to make.

And you can pretend to be sarcastic. You may even believe that you have reason to be sarcastic.

That doesn't mean you aren't pushing quack BS.

[trotsky]

9. As I pointed out to you in the other thread, they've looked into this, and found no link.

...However, MT dysfunction has not specifically been linked to autistic spectrum disorders. A 2006 study, investigating children exposed to the ethylmercury vaccine preservative thiomersal, found that levels of MT and antibodies to MT in autistic children did not differ significantly from normal children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallothionein

So while you continue to beat the dead horse of thimerosal, which isn't even in the routine immunizations anymore yet hasn't resulted in any decrease in autism, real research is impeded. Way to go!

[HuckleB]

19. And back to the bigger picture.

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=940

"The BBC reports today of a National Health Service study that shows that autism rates are consistent at about 1% among all age groups. If true, this has profound implications for the now-discredited notion that autism rates are rising and that this rise is linked to vaccines.

..."

[trotsky]

21. Looking to be more and more that ASDs are normal genetic occurrences.

And that autistic people should be embraced and loved, rather than blaming someone or something for their traits, and attempting to "cure" them by being subjected to potentially fatal medical experiments like chelation or just using them as lab rats with dietary experimentation.

[HuckleB]

23. Indeed.

I certainly have no problems with investigating dietary issues, but once a road has been proven to be a dead end, it seems like it's time to go in another direction. One does wonder what role some of the "treatments" play in the development process of kids undergoing such treatments. I mean, we know the toll that life with a child with autism can take on a family, but we also know the toll that life with a child with chronic illness can take. If one treats autism as chronic illness, via multiple unproven "medical" treatments, does that increase the toll on the family? And how about the child?

[trotsky]

24. Great questions.

If one treats autism as chronic illness, via multiple unproven "medical" treatments, does that increase the toll on the family?

Hard to see how it wouldn't. Now you're getting on and off a different roller coaster all the time, maybe THIS one will work, and with confirmation bias maybe you think you see some improvement and get your hopes up only to have them dashed again. I can't imagine that NOT increasing stress for the family and the child.

[HuckleB]

A couple of pieces that address this issue, though not entirely.

Truth and Consequences – The Anti-Vaccination Movement Exacts a Price

Read more: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=3144#ixzz0XZaQhMpD

"...

But behind the scientific and legal consensus that vaccines do not cause autism lies a hidden world, the autism “biomedical” yahoo- and chat-group world. There is no decline in the number of posts in this world. It’s a thriving, and growing community, one that has fueled the popularity of the anti-vaxers, and the certainty of those parents who consider their child “vaccine-injured”. It has spurred the spending of millions of dollars on supplements, hyperbaric treatments, off-label prescription medications, and myriad other autism “biomedical treatments”. These “treatments” are almost all of no proven benefit, some are ridiculous, some relatively benign, and many potentially dangerous. This article will explore the journey of one mother, “Mary” in her efforts to cure her son “Saul”. While the case of Mary and Saul, documented in her own words is shocking and appalling, Mary is not alone nor is she an extreme case. She is one of thousands of parents seeking autism “biomedical treatments” on the internet.

..."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The price of anti-vaccine fanaticism: Case histories
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=510#more-510

"...

There is another price, however. There is a price that is paid by autistic children themselves and their parents. It is a price paid in money and lost time. It is a price paid in being subjected to treatments that are highly implausible from a scientific standpoint and for which there is no good scientific evidence. It is a price that can result in bankruptcy, suffering, and, yes, even death.

...

The other harm, however, is directly to autistic children themselves. The anti-vaccine movement paints them as being “toxic” and “vaccine damaged,” with the “real child” hiding within, waiting to come out if only just the right combination of “biomedical” woo can be found to reverse the “damage” done by vaccines. This view results in a false hope that leads parents to subject their children to an ever lengthening list of dubious and unproven treatments, as Kent Heckenlively, “Mary,” and the parents of Abubakar Tariq Nadama did. Many of these treatments are not benign. Some are painful and invasive, as injecting “stem cells” into the central nervous system or, as was described on an NBC news special about Andrew Wakefield and Thoughtful House, subjecting autistic children to unnecessary colonoscopies. Meanwhile, parents who buy into the “vaccines cause autism” myth torture feel duped and themselves with guilt over having had their children vaccinated, thus “causing” autism.

These are the harms that result from believing the unsupported myth that vaccines cause autism and that dubious therapies unsupported by science can do anything other than enrich the “practitioners” who sell them."

[HysteryDiagnosis]

25. You can listen, you can read. These parents and their children were

fortunate enough to have the toll reduced.

http://www.autism.com/treatable/recovered/recovered.htm


Recovery

Drastic increases in autism rates suggest there have been recent changes in the environment that are injuring our children. ARI believes these injuries can be treated, and, in the best circumstances reversed using biomedical interventions developed by Defeat Autism Now! researchers and practitioners, intensive behavioral intervention, and other effective therapies.

Mark Blaxill, father of an autistic daughter and co-founder of SafeMinds, has summed it up this way: "The goal of treatment is recovery: defined as a more rapid developmental trajectory, restoration of specific functions and, in the best case, a normal life. Recovery is not the same as a cure."

ARI has received reports of more than 1,000 children who've recovered from ASD using intensive combined interventions. Video presentations of parents of recovered children - including before and after video clips - from the October 2006 DAN conference are available for viewing.

Editorial: Talk about "Recovery"

Parent's stories of recovering their children:

* Selected Chapters from the book, Recovering Autistic Children
o Dr. Green's "Joining Hands to Overcome Autism"
o Natasha Campbell-McBride - "My Son"
o Lynn Hamilton - "There is Hope"
o Amy Holmes - "The King of Metals"
o Amy Lansky - "A Homeopathic Cure"
o Kelli Miller - "Hope Renewed"
o Diane Savage - "Matthew's Story"
o Karen Seroussi - "We Rescued Our Child from Autism"
o Robin and George Young, MD - "A story about Nicolai Young"
* Edward Arranga: Autism Treatment and Recovery
* Christina Adams: More Than Enough I Can't See Anything Else
* Generation Rescue
* Recovered From Autism
* Treating Autism (Great Britian)

* Recovered Autistic Children Videos

[HuckleB]

31. I've been down that road, already.

Fundamentalism is not my thing.

[Confusious]

33. Oh now I know you're full of it

Homeopathic cures and generation rescue

[HysteryDiagnosis]

35. Autoimmunity.... there is no treatment for autoimmunity says

who? If you say so... well what can I say. You claim homeopathy and generation rescue is the answer when these children were helped through individual biochemical analysis and individualized treatment programs.... such as the ones found here: www.hriptc.org I'll give you an E for effort though.

http://www.hriptc.org/schizophreniahome.html
>>What do you hope for?
Less dependence on medications? A more normal life and future for someone you love?

Welcome to Pfeiffer Treatment Center. We are pioneers in the development of biochemical therapies for behavioral, and cognitive disorders. Our approach restores hope, health and balance for children, teens and adults who suffer from depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety, post partum depression*, mood disorders and schizophrenia. Our method is based on the science of the relationship between brain chemistry and neurotransmitter function. Our technique brings relief to people who may have lost hope - and gives them a chance to lead a more normal life.

Pfeiffer provides a world of relief for Depression, Mood Disorders and Schizophrenia. Here is how. We provide a personalized approach. Each of us has an individual biochemical make-up that influences mood and behavior. Pfeiffer's personalized diagnostic and therapeutic approach identifies specific biochemical imbalances and provides therapies that improve mental health, behavior and cognitive function.

Care surrounds you and your family. Our physicians, nurses and other medical professionals take the time to work with you, re-balancing biochemistry and restoring functional behavior.

Customized therapies without side effects typically experienced with drugs. Expertly-trained pharmacists compound individualized therapies from only the purest vitamins, minerals and other nutrient products available worldwide.

Partnership with your physician. Biochemical therapies complement and augment treatments provided by your primary doctor and other medical professionals.

Supporting you with resources. Support groups, educational conferences and professional resources provide the services you need.

*Post Partum Depression therapy is available for women who have consulted their Obstetrician or their primary physician.<<

Int J Immunopathol Pharmacol. 2009 Jan-Mar;22(1):15-9.
Autism and immunity: revisited study.

Castellani ML, Conti CM, Kempuraj DJ, Salini V, Vecchiet J, Tete S, Ciampoli C, Conti F, Cerulli G, Caraffa A, Antinolfi P, Galzio R, Shaik Y, Theoharides TC, De Amicis D, Perrella A, Cuccurullo C, Boscolo P, Felaco M, Doyle R, Verrocchio C, Fulcheri M.

Autism spectrum disorder is of interest neurochemically because it represents a relatively homogeneous disorder with regard to disease development, abnormal cognitive development and intellectual development disturbance. A consistent finding in autistic children is a high number of mast cells and a high level of serotonin which is also found at elevated concentrations in the urine of autistic patients. In addition, a dysfunction of clinical conditions, such as gastrointestinal and immunological symptoms, is frequently noted in autistic children, however, IgE does not appear to be prevalent in these children but probably an increase of cytokines/chemokines produced by mast cells at an early age may play an important role. Therefore an immune hypothesis, involving also autoimmunity, is one possible pathogenetic mechanism in autism. In conclusion, mast cell activation could contribute to immune and neuroinflammatory abnormalities that are evident in patients with autism spectrum disorders.

PMID: 19309548


Association of family history of autoimmune diseases and autism spectrum disorders.

Atladóttir HO, Pedersen MG, Thorsen P, Mortensen PB, Deleuran B, Eaton WW, Parner ET.

Nanea, Department of Epidemiology, Institute of Public Health, bNational Centre for Register-Based Research, and eInstitute of Medical Microbiology and Immunology, University of Aarhus, Aarhus, Denmark. [e-mail]

OBJECTIVES: Recent studies suggest that familial autoimmunity plays a part in the pathogenesis of ASDs. In this study we investigated the association between family history of autoimmune diseases (ADs) and ASDs/infantile autism. We perform confirmatory analyses based on results from previous studies, as well as various explorative analyses. METHODS: The study cohort consisted of all of the children born in Denmark from 1993 through 2004 (689 196 children). Outcome data consisted of both inpatient and outpatient diagnoses reported to the Danish National Psychiatric Registry. Information on ADs in parents and siblings of the cohort members was obtained from the Danish National Hospital Register. The incidence rate ratio of autism was estimated by using log-linear Poisson regression. RESULTS: A total of 3325 children were diagnosed with ASDs, of which 1089 had an infantile autism diagnosis. Increased risk of ASDs was observed for children with a maternal history of rheumatoid arthritis and celiac disease. Also, increased risk of infantile autism was observed for children with a family history of type 1 diabetes. CONCLUSIONS: Associations regarding family history of type 1 diabetes and infantile autism and maternal history of rheumatoid arthritis and ASDs were confirmed from previous studies. A significant association between maternal history of celiac disease and ASDs was observed for the first time. The observed associations between familial autoimmunity and ASDs/infantile autism are probably attributable to a combination of a common genetic background and a possible prenatal antibody exposure or alteration in fetal environment during pregnancy.

PMID: 19581261

Autoimmunity in autism.

Enstrom AM, Van de Water JA, Ashwood P.

University of California at Davis, Department of Medical Microbiology and Immunology/UC Davis MIND Institute, 2805 50th Street, Sacramento, CA 95817, USA.

Autism spectrum disorders is a heterogenous group of neurodevelopmental disorders, the etiology or etiologies of which remain unknown. Increasing evidence of autoimmune phenomena in individuals with autism could represent the presence of altered or inappropriate immune responses in this disorder, and this immune system dysfunction may represent novel targets for treatment. Furthermore, in recent studies, antibodies directed against the fetal brain have been detected in some mothers of children with autism; these antibodies have the ability to alter behavioral outcomes in the offspring of animal models. A better understanding of the involvement of the immune response in early brain development, with respect to autism, may have important therapeutic implications.

PMID: 19431079

[Confusious]

38. Hmm, I said nothing of the sort

I said you where full of it because homeopathy is crap an generation rescue is a anti-vaxx group.

You didn't have to go through all the trouble of posting something I'm not going to read because it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

39. You won't read it because you don't want to know. Homeopathy is

used by the royal family in England and Gen Res is out to promote alternative vaccination schedules. Apparently you don't know squat about either one.

[Confusious]

41. So? Tom cruise is a scientologist

Doesn't mean squat to me. He's a crazy little man with lots of money. Don't give two dog turds what he does or the queen does.

Homeopathy is bullshit. Why did we still have disease, when homeopathy has been around since the mid-19th century?

Why was there still smallpox, polio, rubella, mumps, etc, etc, etc. It took modern medicine, science and the vaccine.

Thanks to vaccines and modern medicine, no more smallpox. No more alot of things that used to kill people.

Why is it still around now? because we have rubes who give money to these people for sugar pills, and then pass the disease along.

Homeopathy = faith healer, I have the same contempt for both.

"Gen Res is out to promote alternative vaccination schedules."

A former porn star and actor talking about science. Hmmm, that'll work out well. They also blame vaccines for everything. If you don't know that then your the one who doesn't know squat.

[Chemisse]

26. I find this line of thinking very intriguing

We are all exposed to heavy metals in our daily lives, increasingly so in recent decades. If someone was less unable to clear them, it makes sense that they could do some damage.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

27. Take a look at this and see if the naysayers have a leg to stand

on concerning these issues.


Environ Res. 2003 Jul;92(3):197-206.
Lead exposure potentiates predatory attack behavior in the cat.

Li W, Han S, Gregg TR, Kemp FW, Davidow AL, Louria DB, Siegel A, Bogden JD.

Department of Preventive Medicine and Community Health, UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School, 185 South Orange Avenue, Newark, NJ 07103-2714, USA.

Epidemiologic studies have demonstrated that environmental lead exposure is associated with aggressive behavior in children; however, numerous confounding variables limit the ability of these studies to establish a causal relationship. The study of aggressive behavior using a validated animal model was used to test the hypothesis that there is a causal relationship between lead exposure and aggression in the absence of confounding variables. We studied the effects of lead exposure on a feline model of aggression: predatory (quiet biting) attack of an anesthetized rat. Five cats were stimulated with a precisely controlled electrical current via electrodes inserted into the lateral hypothalamus. The response measure was the predatory attack threshold current (i.e., the current required to elicit an attack response on 50% of the trials). Blocks of trials were administered in which predatory attack threshold currents were measured three times a week for a total of 6-10 weeks, including before, during, and after lead exposure.

Lead was incorporated into cat food "treats" at doses of 50-150 mg/kg/day. Two of the five cats received a second period of lead exposure. Blood lead concentrations were measured twice a week and were <1, 21-77, and <20 micro g/dL prior to, during, and after lead exposure, respectively. The predatory attack threshold decreased significantly during initial lead exposure in three of five cats and increased after the cessation of lead exposure in four of the five cats (P<0.01). The predatory attack thresholds and blood lead concentrations for each cat were inversely correlated (r=-0.35 to -0.74). A random-effects mixed model demonstrated a significant (P=0.0019) negative association between threshold current and blood lead concentration. The data of this study demonstrate that lead exposure enhances predatory aggression in the cat and provide experimental support for a causal relationship between lead exposure and aggressive behavior in humans.

[Chemisse]

28. Ok, so the 'naysayers' would say it was not proven

That the lead was causal in such behavior in humans, which is true. So they would then say that studies show no link, therefore there is no link and if you still think there could be, then you are anti-science.

Some people have no intellectual curiosity.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

29. Mmmmmm could be the lead..... it drove the Romans crazy...

at least we know what is up with that.... and can do something about it.

[HuckleB]

30. Nice red herring.

Do either of you see the ludicrous nature of your discussion?

If you don't, I have no need to discuss anything further with either of you.

[Chemisse]

34. Do you recognize how rigid you are?

It hurts no one to speculate, and it is good to have an open mind.

“An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it”

[trotsky]

36. On the other hand, it's possible to have a mind so open...

that your brains fall out.

Not every wacky idea that comes along has equal weight. This is the trap of postmodernism, and it's ironically most exemplified by FAUX News, which gives "equal" value to "both sides" of a debate, regardless of one side having all the evidence on its side.

[HuckleB]

40. No, I don't.

Because I'm not rigid. I am disciplined enough to see through repetitive crap.

When the same speculation repeats itself ad nauseum, despite the evidence piling against it, one must make a decision to move to other areas of speculation.

That's what I do. Thank you very much.

[DU GrovelBot]

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