Only three countries recommend vaccinating children against the seasonal flu: USA, Mexico & Finland

[mhatrw]

http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/2009/10/h1n1-vaccination-in-children.html

I found it interesting to learn (in http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/326/5949/50">Science magazine) that only 3 countries recommend seasonal flu vaccinations in children: the US, Mexico and Finland.

[Oregone]

1. Here in BC they are pairing them up with H1N1s all at once

Maybe they aren't "recommending", but their policies result this year in all children getting them

[mhatrw]

5. And they are using adjuvants in Canada's H1N1 vaccines.

[Oregone]

6. Yep, BUT, what's the bigger problem? Adjuvants or vaccine shortages?

The US could of stretched their supply by 400% perhaps with adjuvants. Canada has the highest vaccine to population ratio of any country in the world now.

[mhatrw]

8. I guess we'll find out when this experiment is over. In the meantime, vaccine manufacturers

reap huge profits while countries relieve them of all their product liability risks. Swine flu, right up there with leprosy as a world health risk.

[Oregone]

9. Tell that to the 30 year olds on vents in your local ICU

Fuckn fakers. Get out of bed and be happy you don't have Jp. Encephalitits.

[mhatrw]

10. You can justify any health policy you want, no matter how dangerous, counterproductive or expensive

by using anecdotes of sick people.

For example, why don't we ban all automobiles?

How can you disagree with this considering all the horribly maimed 30 year olds on vents in your local ICU?

[Oregone]

11. anecdotes?

The numbers show the median age in ICU is 32 (29 in one US study). This segment of the population is disproportionally affected by this.

Since its my ass on the line, everyone else should get a dirty, non-tested fucked up vaccine to slow the epidemic and make me feel safe. That better?

[mhatrw]

12. How about if you just get one yourself since they are so safe and effective?

And I take it you won't be traveling in any motorized vehicles for the rest of your young life, either, considering it is your ass on the line there as well?

[Oregone]

13. No, because that exposes me to the harm and no one else

Doesn't seem fair. I like it the other way around actually

[mhatrw]

14. You would make a great member of the elite.

Unfortunately, they are not currently taking applications, as far as I can tell.

[Oregone]

15. Chaps my ass, it does

Well, I'm always willing, though it seems like hard work

[Chemisse]

31. That graph sure puts it in perspective

We certainly are very anxious about something that is a very tiny risk compared to heart disease and cancer.

So far it looks as though seasonal flu will still dwarf the H1N1 as a cause of death. Hopefully we won't be surprised by a nasty mutation.

[DesertFlower]

2. interesting. nt

[d_r]

3. Herd immunity

I remember last year that Japan found that vaccinating all school children for the flu that the death rate went down in the elderly, due to herd immunity.

[kimmerspixelated]

4. Risk vs effectiveness?

Also maybe the old fashioned idea of building immunity up through getting the flu and getting over it is the natural course of things and maybe most other countries know this. Maybe other countries rely on some strong herbals to get them through the season??? Finland...I am surprised.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

7. Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see where your link says that

In the first link, an obvious anti-vax site, it notes that "{they were} interested to learn that only 3 countries recommend seasonal flu vaccinations...", and link to the Science Magazine page that you also provide in your post.

But, that Science Magazine page doesn't say anywhere that the only 3 countries to recommend flu vaccinations in children are the U.S., Mexico, and Finland.

The entire text of the Science Magazine page:

Today, we are better prepared to face the H1N1 influenza A 2009 virus than we were for any other previous pandemic. Although the present manufacturing capacity is unlikely to have all the vaccines needed before the peak of the next wave of cases, the potential output of vaccine manufacturing has increased from 400 to 900 million (1). A vaccine will be produced in Europe with modern cell culture technology instead of eggs. A large facility for cell culture production under construction in the United States is expected to improve the current limited production capacity. Although vaccines against avian H5N1 are not highly immunogenic, this shortcoming can be overcome by using adjuvants or reverting to using whole-virus vaccines (2–5).

I'm not paying a subscription to read the entire text of the article, so tell me where it says that.

[HuckleB]

16. There is no point in discussing anything with this poster.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

18. Once again, you couldn't be more wrong...

Canada recommends seasonal flu vaccinations for children over the age of 6 months.

Flu shot offers the best protection
Combined with regular hand washing, the flu shot is the best way to protect yourself and others from the virus. Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) encourages all Canadians over age six months to get a flu shot. It is particularly important for health professionals to be immunized to protect themselves and their patients

Emphasis added.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/iif-vcg/index-eng.php

That's an indisputable fact that you've got wrong.

Sid

[mhatrw]

19. When did Canada first issue this recommendation?

Why didn't the editors at Science catch this error during peer review?

[SidDithers]

20. It's been recommended as long as I can remember...

We've taken our kids (11 & 9) for seasonal flu immunizations, as recommended by Health Canada, for as long as I can remember.

Here's the Statement on Influenza Vaccination for the 2000-2001 Season
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/00vol26/26sup/acs2.html

Current influenza vaccines licensed in Canada are immunogenic, safe, and associated with minimal side effects (see "Adverse reactions" and "Contraindications and precautions" below). Influenza vaccine may be administered to any healthy child, adolescent, or adult for whom contraindications are not present.

It's not a new recommendation.

Sid

[mhatrw]

21. "may" is not a recommendation. n/t

[SidDithers]

22. And you're still wrong...

Edit:

full paragraph from link above

RECOMMENDED RECIPIENTS

Current influenza vaccines licensed in Canada are immunogenic, safe, and associated with minimal side effects (see "Adverse reactions" and "Contraindications and precautions" below). Influenza vaccine may be administered to any healthy child, adolescent, or adult for whom contraindications are not present.

To reduce the morbidity and mortality associated with influenza and the impact of illness in our communities, immunization programs should focus on those at high risk for influenza-related complications, those capable of transmitting influenza to individuals at high risk for complications, and those who provide essential community services. However, significant morbidity and societal costs are also associated with seasonal interpandemic influenza illness and its complications occurring in healthy children and adults(1). For this reason, healthy adults and their children who wish to protect themselves from influenza should be encouraged to receive the vaccine (see "Immunization of healthy persons" below).

Sid

[mhatrw]

23. Again the language is subtlety not actually recommending vaccination for children.

For this reason, healthy adults and their children who wish to protect themselves from influenza should be encouraged to receive the vaccine.

WTF is that even supposed to mean? Are only the children of healthy adults being encouraged to receive the vaccine? If so, why not hw healthy children of less than healthy adults? Are the sick children of healthy adults recommended for vaccination? Or is it only the children of healthy adults who want to protect themselves (from their own children's potential influenza)? Or is it just the children who wish to protect themselves from influenza (as well as healthy adults who wish the same) who should be vaccinated?

[SidDithers]

24. I used 2000 so you could see how far back the recommendation went...

here's this year's statement,

Flu shot offers the best protection
Combined with regular hand washing, the flu shot is the best way to protect yourself and others from the virus. Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) encourages all Canadians over age six months to get a flu shot.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/iif-vcg/index-eng.php

It's an indisputable fact that you're wrong.

Sid

[mhatrw]

26. "Science" magazine's article was either wrong or is just now outdated. That is clear.

I am the first to admit the information I supplied is clearly wrong. I was just trying to figure out why/how Science published something wrong/outdated.

I suspect that the recommendation part is new for this year, perhaps due to the H1N1 scare.

[SidDithers]

27. Not new this year...

From last year:

General considerations

The national goal of the influenza immunization program in Canada is to prevent serious illness caused by influenza and its complications, including death(19). In keeping with this, NACI recommends that priority be given to immunization of those persons at high risk of influenza-related complications, those capable of transmitting influenza to individuals at high risk of complications, and those who provide essential community services. However, influenza vaccine is encouraged for all Canadians who have no contraindication.

From 2007:

General considerations

The national goal of influenza immunization programs is to prevent serious illness caused by influenza and its complications, including death. NACI therefore recommends that priority be given to immunization of those persons at high risk of influenza-related complications, those capable of transmitting influenza to individuals at high risk of complications, and those who provide essential community services; however, NACI encourages annual vaccine for all Canadians.

From 2006:

General considerations

The national goal of influenza immunization programs is to prevent serious illness caused by influenza and its complications, including death. NACI therefore recommends that immunization programs target vaccine delivery, as a priority, to those persons at high risk of influenza-related complications, those capable of transmitting influenza to individuals at high risk of complications, and those who provide essential community services; however, NACI encourages annual vaccine for all Canadians.

etc.


Sid

[mhatrw]

28. OK, you convinced me. Canada, USA, Mexico & Finland it is.

I sincerely apologize for providing misinformation. It was not my purpose to do so.

[HuckleB]

25. Let's see the links to the policies of the rest of the world's nations.

You got those available?

[HuckleB]

29. Yup. Crickets.

That's what I expected.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=301

[mhatrw]

30. Let's see those toddler seasonal flu shot recommendations from the rest of the world's nations.

[HuckleB]

32. Nice game playing.

You made the claim, but you haven't done the research.

Now that's just plain pitiful.

[mhatrw]

33. Read the OP. The research was done by an article in "Science" magazine.

[HuckleB]

34. Actually, your post doesn't link to any such research.

Try again.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

35. You don't link to any "research" showing any such thing

Can you provide evidence for the claim you make in your OP? Or are you making it up based off of an error (or dishonesty) from an anti-vax site?

[trotsky]

36. Articles can report on research, but articles don't "do" research.

And the article you linked to doesn't have anything to do with your claim. Are you just posting random links with your bullshit and hoping people don't actually click on them to fact-check you?