The *real* facts about Mercola's H1N1 vaccine "facts" poster

[salvorhardin]

OK...there's a huge Mercola article alleging that the H1N1 pandemic is a "massive" illusion (created by, presumably, very large magicians with great big scary magic wands). I'm pondering tackling the entire article, but meanwhile, I think it'd be OK if I took on the "fact" sheet they offer to anyone who'd like to print it and hang it up in their communities. See below each "fact" (there's really only one true--in intent and content--fact on there) and my parsing of it. I'd aver that if this list of 10 "facts" has something squirrelly about it, that lengthy tome accompanying it might have a wee bit o' the rodent about it, too. We could start with their obvious incapacity to understand the definition of "pandemic."

Also...what is up with the creepy alien hand on that "fact" sheet? Is that what getting a vaccine does to you? It makes your hands transparent and boneless?

Anyway...

1. "Fact": Multidose vials of seasonal and injectable H1N1 swine flu vaccines contain MERCURY (all caps theirs), which is a "known neurotoxin."
Observations: The actual compound of the preservative in question is called thimerosal. It consists in part (about half) of a kind of mercury called ethylmercury. Millions of doses of the seasonal vaccine are made available that do not have thimerosal. If you're concerned about the multidose formulation, ask about single-dose formulations. Or get the nasal vaccine, which is not made using thimerosal. And "mercury" is not a monolithic term describing any and all forms of mercury. Routes of exposure, chemical composition, and concentrations all play a role in whether or not it will cause harm. Water is a great example. Ingested, it's OK...unless you ingest too much. Inhaled, it'll kill you. Topical exposure is OK...unless you're exposed over a very long term. Oh, and molecular content matters, too. The difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury is a matter of a couple of atoms. No biggie? Well, the difference between H2O (good old water) and D2O (heavy water) is a matter of a neutron...yet heavy water is highly toxic in any number of ways in sufficient concentrations. In biochemical reactions, a small change can make a huge difference.

2. "Fact": Some "swine flu" (quotes mine) vaccines contain formaldehyde and exposure to formaldehyde has been shown to increase the risk of developing certain CANCERS (all caps theirs).
Observations: This old chestnut? Still? Formaldehyde is a carcinogen. So is estrogen. Oh, and enjoy this little read about the naturally occurring carcinogens in our diet. Or google "aflatoxins" and then stop eating peanut butter. The issue is, once again, that it's the dose that makes the poison. Oh, and the fact that the body actually makes formaldehyde, too, more than you ever receive in a vaccine. Bottom line: the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines ain't gonna give you cancer any more than that peanut butter sandwich will.

3. "Fact": It is unknown whether or not it is safe to give the "swine flu" vaccine to all pregnant women, children, and adults especially if they are chronically ill or sick at the time of the vaccine.
Observations: First of all, look at this list of clinical trials. And then check out the results of this trial. Looks like (a) we've got trials people establishing the safety and (b) we've got trials specific to pregnant women with real numbers and real results, not made-up "facts." This "fact" is also misleading because no one claims that it is safe to give any vaccine to "all" individuals in a given population, and there are clear clinical guidelines for determining who should receive a vaccine and who can have a nasal vs. jab vaccination. ...
All 10 of Mercola's "facts" debunked: http://daisymayfattypants.blogspot.com/2009/11/mercola-facts-poster.html

[mhatrw]

1. How can you "debunk" a list of indisputably true facts?

I guess Big Pharma acolytes can do anything.

Let's start with fact one.

Multidose vials of seasonal and injectable H1N1 swine flu vaccines contain MERCURY, which is a "known neurotoxin."

This is a fact. Multidose vials of seasonal and injectable H1N1 swine flu vaccines contain thimerosal which is about 50% mercury by weight. And thimerosal is indisputably a known neurotoxin. So how can you "debunk" a clearly indisputable, admitted fact?

[trotsky]

4. My Koresh, you are incapable of basic comprehension.

You just keep proving it over and over and over.

[mhatrw]

6. How can you explain away a simple, indisputable fact?

Let's start with fact one.

Multidose vials of seasonal and injectable H1N1 swine flu vaccines contain MERCURY, which is a known neurotoxin.

This is a fact.

Multidose vials of seasonal and injectable H1N1 swine flu vaccines contain thimerosal which is about 50% mercury by weight. Is this not a fact?

And thimerosal is indisputably a known neurotoxin. Is this also not a fact?

How can you "debunk" basic, indisputable, admitted facts?

[trotsky]

7. Because you don't even understand that fact.

It is evidenced by your post. Simple as that. You evidently choose to ignore what's in the article, and launch into one of your wild-eyed tirades.

You discredit yourself. Which is a great thing.

[mhatrw]

13. Only in the Big Pharma cheering section can indisputable facts be "debunked."

[trotsky]

14. Answer just one thing:

The dose makes the poison. True or False?

Show me you understand one of the most basic concepts of toxicology. Because what you've shown so far is that you clearly and embarrassingly do not.

[mhatrw]

17. Where did the poster state that the dose is poison?

The poster merely stated that all multivial doses of H1N1 & seasonal flu vaccine contain mercury in a form that is known to be neurotoxic.

How in the hell can you dispute those simple, indisputable facts?

[trotsky]

21. True or false?

The dose makes the poison.

True or false?

Can you answer? Will you answer? Or are you too cowardly?

[mhatrw]

22. What hell is that supposed to mean? The PPM of mercury in a flu injection is

more than 100 times higher than necessary to be declared toxic waste.

[trotsky]

23. True or false?

Answer the question.

Your refusal to answer the question speaks VOLUMES of your ignorance.

[mhatrw]

26. Again, what is that supposed to mean in this context? Seriously.

What is the meaning of the aphorism you keep repeating? Certainly, if any dangerous substance -- even plutonium, for example -- is diluted enough, it becomes relatively harmless. Is this what you keep asking me or are you speaking some sort of Big Pharma cheerleader codespeak?

[trotsky]

28. So is the statement true or false?

"The dose makes the poison."

True or false?

[mhatrw]

39. True or false?

Every multidose injection of seasonal or H1N1 flu contains .0245 milligrams of mercury per 0.5 ml of vaccine.

True or false?

The EPA's standard for undrinkable mercury contamination in our drinking water is 0.002 milligrams per liter of water.

True or false?

Every liter of vaccine contains 49 milligrams of mercury.

True or false?

If a liter of water contained 49 milligrams of mercury, it would have 24,500 times the amount of mercury that the FDA says is safe to drink.

True or false?

[gkhouston]

43. I'll take "irrelevant bullshit for $1000", Alex. The EPA's standard is likely set

bearing in mind that people will drink a goodly amount of water each day. If I drink only a liter of borderline-toxic water per day (and that's a low estimate), that's 2 milligrams, which is already an unsafe amount. One dose of the H1N1 vaccine is .0245 milligrams, and I'll only be doing that once.

Sounds like it would make more sense for me to spend my time worrying about the local water supply and what's in the fish I eat on a regular basis than in a one-time injection.

[salvorhardin]

45. Not to mention that ethyl mercury is not methyl mercury

Ethyl vs. Methyl Mercury
Mercury is a naturally occurring chemical element found throughout the environment. Mercury is found in three forms: as a pure metal (as found in thermometers), as inorganic salts, and as an organic derivative. Humans and wildlife are exposed to all three forms, though most of the mercury in the environment is in metallic or inorganic forms. Organic forms of mercury are more easily absorbed when ingested and some forms are eliminated from the body very slowly. Because mercury is everywhere, it is not possible to prevent all exposure to it. Exposure to high levels of mercury can be toxic.

Methyl mercury is the most common organic derivative of mercury and is mainly produced by microorganisms in water and soil. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s safe exposure guidelines for mercury are based on exposure to methyl mercury.

There are important differences, however, between methyl mercury exposure and thimerosal exposure.

* Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury, which is chemically different from methyl mercury.
* The timing and route of exposure are different for these two chemicals.
http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/research/vaccines.htm

[mhatrw]

50. Tell us the what all the "safe" forms of mercury are, salvorhardin.

This should be good.

[trotsky]

55. Tell us what the "safe" forms of water are.

A baby can drown in one inch of water. Too much water in our bodies, throwing off the electrolyte balance, is fatal.

What are the "safe" forms of water that cannot result in these fatal complications?

Tell us!

[mhatrw]

71. LOL. You are too much. Let's see. Water without too much mercury in it?

[Chemisse]

51. The difference between these 2 molecules is just one carbon atom

Not very reassuring to me.

[trotsky]

54. There is one carbon atom of difference or less between thousands of organic chemicals.

Resulting in vastly different chemical, physical, and biological properties.

[mhatrw]

58. Tell us the what all the "safe" forms of mercury are.

Seriously. List all the "safe" forms of mercury for us, trotsky.

[trotsky]

59. The dose makes the poison.

True or false?

[Chemisse]

65. Better yet - show us which you are willing to inject

I supply the mercury compounds, you bring the syringes.

[trotsky]

66. I've gotten a MERCURY-LADEN flu shot for myself and my children...

every year of their lives, and every year for myself since 2000.

ZOMG HOW AM I STILL ALIVE?!?!?!?!?

On edit: Will you answer my question? The dose makes the poison - true or false? I just want someone to answer, will you be brave enough?

[mhatrw]

72. The dose makes the poison

http://www.actionbioscience.org/environment/trautmann.html">or does it?

Now, what are all those safe forms of mercury again?

[trotsky]

75. So what's your answer?

Still waiting!

[mhatrw]

47. Check your math. You have to drink 1000 liters of borderline toxic water to get 2 mg of mercury.

You would have to drink over 3 gallons of borderline toxic water to receive the mercury equivalent of a single flu shot that is injected straight into your body.

Do you think it would be a good idea to drink 3 gallons of borderline mercury-toxic water in one minute if you could somehow avoid it?

How about chugging one gallon of water that is more than 3 times over the EPA's limit for mercury. Are you up for that today?

[gkhouston]

56. Whoa. Didn't get my caffeine yesterday. Yeah, that math was wrong,

but yes, I'd still take the vaccine. It's not the same thing as mercury-toxic water, and no amount of emotional language will make it so. "Injected straight into your body" um, yeah, like people usually get flu shots painted on their toenails or something? :eyes:

[mhatrw]

57. Would you like to drink a gallon of water contaminated with 3 times over the EPA's mercury limit

right now?



mmmmm ... mercury

[gkhouston]

62. What relationship does hypothetically contaminated water bear to vaccines? Oh, right. None.

Not even the same form of mercury. Nice cartoon, though.

[mhatrw]

68. What makes you say it is "not even the same form of mercury"?

The EPA does not have a different standard for ethylmercury contamination than it has for methylmercury contamination or elemental mercury contamination. You know this. You must know this. If you somehow do not know this, then use some common sense. If you have no common sense, then try using google.

[LeftishBrit]

67. Actually I wouldn't like to drink a gallon of water at one go at all!

[trotsky]

46. Answered on this thread below.

Now answer me.

No more distractions.

No more red herrings.

Answer me.

[mhatrw]

48. LOL.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

8. Answer me this

Water causes over 3,000 deaths in the U.S. every year - thus, it is a dangerous chemical. True or false.

Is that a basic, undisputable fact? If not, can you explain the nuances of the argument that caused you to differentiate between safe water and dangerous water?

[mhatrw]

12. Facts are facts. Fact 1: Thimerosal is in all US multidose vial flu vaccines.

Fact 2: Thimerosal is an indisputable neurotoxin.

No other claims were made. So deal with the facts.

[trotsky]

16. Fact 1: Sodium is an explosive metal.

Fact 2: Chlorine is a poisonous gas.

Why do you allow Morton's to poison you and your family with this combination of toxic substances? Deal with the facts.

[mhatrw]

18. Salt is not a known neurotoxin. Thimerosal is a known neurotoxin.

[trotsky]

20. Sodium is an explosive metal.

Chlorine is a deadly gas.

These are facts. And you look more and more foolish with your total inability to understand them.

[mhatrw]

24. Thimerosal is a neurotoxin. Salt is not.

These are facts. And you look more and more foolish with your total inability to understand them.

[trotsky]

25. Nice try.

Your colossal ignorance of basic chemistry, biology, and toxicology is stupefying.

Sodium is an explosive metal. Chlorine is a toxic gas. By your logic, salt should kill us. One day, I hope, you will understand.

[mhatrw]

27. Thimerosal is a neurotoxin. Salt is not. My logic is sound. You analogy is not.

Deal with it.

[trotsky]

29. Sodium is deadly.

If you put a crystal in your mouth, your head would explode.

Breathe in some chlorine gas sometime. It's toxic as hell.

THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.

You are dangerously close to actually learning something. I believe in you.

[mhatrw]

37. Yes, but sodium ions and chlorine ions are not deadly.

What forms of mercury are perfectly safe for humans to ingest and/or inject?

Is there any forms of mercury that are perfectly safe to sprinkle all over my food, for example?

Could you please educate me about all of the perfectly safe forms of mercury?

Meanwhile, when it comes to thimerosal itself ...

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf

The Eli Lilly Manufacturer’s Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for thimerosal states: "exposure in-utero can cause mild to severe mental retardation and motor coordination impairment." The National Toxicology Program (NTP) states that thimerosal is a "poison by ingestion, subcutaneous, intravenous and possibly other routes," classifies it as an experimental carcinogen and teratogen, and concludes that childhood exposures result in "mental retardation in children, loss of coordination in speech, writing, gait, stupor, and irritability and bad temper progressing to mania."

The Eli Lilly MSDS further states that thimerosal "is known to cause birth defects and other reproductive harm." The NTP broadly classifies thimerosal as a teratogen capable of other adverse reproductive effects.

The California EPA has proclaimed that thimerosal is a human reproductive toxin. When denying a request from Bayer, Inc., to reclassify thimerosal as harmless, its report concluded: "The scientific evidence that ... thimerosal causes reproductive toxicity is clear and voluminous. Thimerosal dissociates in the body to ethyl mercury. The evidence for its reproductive toxicity includes severe mental retardation or malformations in human offspring who were poisoned when their mothers were exposed to ethyl mercury or thimerosal while pregnant, studies in animals demonstrating developmental toxicity after exposure to either ethyl mercury or thimerosal, and data showing interconversion to other forms of mercury that also clearly cause reproductive toxicity."

[trotsky]

38. Ooh, you're getting dangerously close to understanding things!

The dose makes the poison. True or false?

[mhatrw]

40. What forms of mercury are perfectly safe for humans to ingest and/or inject?

Every multidose injection of seasonal or H1N1 flu contains .0245 milligrams of mercury per 0.5 ml of vaccine.

True or false?

The EPA's standard for undrinkable mercury contamination in our drinking water is 0.002 milligrams per liter of water.

True or false?

Every liter of vaccine contains 49 milligrams of mercury.

True or false?

If a liter of water contained 49 milligrams of mercury, it would have 24,500 times the amount of mercury that the FDA says is safe to drink.

True or false?

[trotsky]

42. And just as you get close, you pull right back.

You must realize just how fatal understanding that principle is to your arguments.

I'll even indulge your red herrings so you have no excuse!

Every multidose injection of seasonal or H1N1 flu contains .0245 milligrams of mercury per 0.5 ml of vaccine.
True or false?

False. Some have just .012 mg Hg/0.25ml. Some flu shots have none. But I'll roll with the largest amount for the rest of your false analogy.

The EPA's standard for undrinkable mercury contamination in our drinking water is 0.002 milligrams per liter of water.
True or false?

I would imagine this depends on whether it's elemental mercury or a mercury compound. You don't say, but let's assume you are correct in some way.

Every liter of vaccine contains 49 milligrams of mercury.
True or false?

True in one sense, but irrelevant because no one gets injected with a liter of vaccine. False in another sense because EPA regulations certainly concern elemental mercury or methylmercury. The compound thimerosal is an ethylmercury, which is processed differently by the body. Its half-life for removal is about an order of magnitude less.

If a liter of water contained 49 milligrams of mercury, it would have 24,500 times the amount of mercury that the FDA says is safe to drink.
True or false?

False because you are confusing the types, amounts, and methods of delivery to the body. And you still have yet to demonstrate you understand what the difference is between an element and a compound.

THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON.

TRUE OR FALSE?

I answered you, now answer me.

TRUE OR FALSE?

[mhatrw]

49. You are priceless.

False. Some have just .012 mg Hg/0.25ml. Some flu shots have none. But I'll roll with the largest amount for the rest of your false analogy.

What level of mercury do the multidose H1N1 vaccines have?

I would imagine this depends on whether it's elemental mercury or a mercury compound. You don't say, but let's assume you are correct in some way.

LOL. I would imagine that you are 100% wrong. There is no "safe" form of mercury and you know it.

False in another sense because EPA regulations certainly concern elemental mercury or methylmercury. The compound thimerosal is an ethylmercury, which is processed differently by the body. Its half-life for removal is about an order of magnitude less.

LOL. Post the links that show that that EPA treats ethylmercury contamination differently from elemental mercury or methylmercury contamination. The manner in which you convey pure, unadulterated bullshit is completely shameless.

What's funny is that it is in fact true that there is indeed evidence that a large percentage of ethylmercury does clear the body quicker than does methylmercury. But to insinuate that this single recent study informs the EPA's safety standards for mercury contamination is completely ludicrous. And you must know this is completely ludicrous. So why did you propose it?

Your purpose is to do anything but engage in a reasonable discussion because you know that you will lose any such debate. Instead you wish to grandstand about a meaningless generalization. Have at it. Anyone stupid enough to fall for your tactics deserves the end of Big Pharma's needle.

[trotsky]

53. You can't answer me because you know it destroys your argument.

And so you throw out red herrings, you attack me personally, you do everything possible to avoid answering a very simple question.

The dose makes the poison. TRUE or FALSE?

[mhatrw]

60. So a vague, meaningless generalizing aphorism "destroys" my argument. LOL.

As I said, please feel free to keep "cornering" me with this question. Please feel free to keep claiming that a vague, meaningless generalizing aphorism "destroys" my argument. Have at it. I find it amusing. And anyone stupid enough to fall for your "debating" tactics deserves the end of Big Pharma's needle.

[trotsky]

61. The dose makes the poison. True or false?

Why won't you answer this very simple question?

All I'm trying to do is get you on record to find out if you accept basic rules of toxicology before we talk about the toxicity of one particular substance. There are no tricks here, I just want to determine whether you accept the science of toxicology.

So do you? Will you answer the question? Or do you reject toxicology, and make up your own rules about what can harm us and how?

[mhatrw]

63. Keep it up.

http://www.epa.gov/waste/hazard/tsd/mercury/regs.htm

If mercury levels in a waste exceed the Toxicity Characteristic Leach Test (TCLP) level of 0.2 mg/L for mercury, then the waste is identified as a hazardous waste based on the toxicity characteristic.

The mercury level of any CDC-approved multivial H1N1 vaccine is 49 mg/L. That's 245 times greater than the EPA's standard for toxic waste. Multidose flu vaccines are toxic waste.

[trotsky]

64. The dose makes the poison. True or false?

Just answer the question. That's all you need to do. So simple, and your continued refusal makes you look more and more ridiculous.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trotsky]

70. So instead of resorting to weak personal insults,

how about YOU answer the question?

THE DOSE MAKES THE POISON: TRUE OR FALSE?

[mhatrw]

73. The dose makes the poison

http://www.actionbioscience.org/environment/trautmann.html">or does it?

[trotsky]

74. This is really the best you can do?

You are so AFRAID of one simple question, that you've latched on to an article that really doesn't answer the question in the way you want, and you think that's going to be your answer?

BWWAAAAAAAWK!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

19. Are you scared to answer the question?

Before this conversation can go further, please answer the question.

[HuckleB]

35. So red herring BS is all you can offer?

If that's true, then you don't care about discussion.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

36. Can you answer the question?

I proposed an analogy that included a valid comparison to your position. I'm hoping you'll follow the analogy to its conclusion.

[HuckleB]

41. You're spinning.

Your question is ludicrous.

[slutticus]

30. The vaccines contain 0.01% thimerosal

Thimerosal is about 50% mercury by weight, therefore you're getting about 0.005% mercury by weight.


Also, why do people like to pretend that the organic form of mercury used as the preservative is just as toxic as inorganic mercury? These aren't really "facts" in your post...more like half-truths.

[HuckleB]

34. ROTFLMAO!

Are you for real, or are you a parody?

[SkyIsGrey]

77. Hey you, yes you over there in the...

shitty seats.

From WHO.

Statement on thiomersal
The Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety concludes that there is no evidence of toxicity in infants, children or adults exposed to thiomersal (containing ethyl mercury) in vaccines.

In 1999, concerns were raised in the United States of America about exposure to mercury in vaccines. This was based on the realization that the cumulative amount of mercury in the infant immunization schedule potentially exceeded the recommended threshold set by the United States government for methyl mercury. However, thiomersal, the preservative in some vaccines, contains ethyl mercury not methyl mercury. The Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) first assessed this issue at a special meeting in August 2000. The Committee review has been ongoing since then.

Expert consultation and data presented to the GACVS indicate that the pharmacokinetic profile of ethyl mercury is substantially different from that of methyl mercury. The half-life of ethyl mercury is short (less than one week) compared to methyl mercury (1.5 months) making exposure to ethyl mercury in blood comparatively brief. Further, ethyl mercury is actively excreted via the gut unlike methyl mercury that accumulates in the body.

Four independently conducted epidemiological studies investigating associations and frequency of neurobehavioural disorders in relation to vaccination with thiomersal-containing vaccines have been completed in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Denmark. The findings from these studies do not challenge the safety of existing thiomersal-containing vaccines in infants. Recently two studies were published alleging reduction of neurodevelopmental disorders in the United States of America following discontinuation of thiomersal-containing vaccines in the national immunization programme. The Committee found the conclusions made by the authors unconvincing due to the study design, and the data source.

[Celebration]

2. Are H1N1 vaccines available without thimerosal?

I know the seasonal flu has some available. But a lot of places don't carry them. I know that because my daughter couldn't find a place that carried the flu vaccine sans thimerosal when she was pregnant. She should have checked the pediatricians' offices I guess. No adult doctor or clinic had them available.

I'm not sure non thimerosal H1N1 vaccines are available at all.

[mhatrw]

3. I called the CDC and they said thimerosal-free injectable versions were available. But when I called

my doctor's office, they told me that the only kind of injectable H1N1 vaccines available are the multidose vials that contain thimerosal.

[Orrex]

5. K&R

[CoffeeCat]

9. The H1N1 vaccine is bird, human and pig virus combined...

...and there are absolutely no long-term studies on this vaccine. So the long-term effects, good or bad,
are unknown.

That is a fact.

Combine that fact with problems with the last Swine Flu vaccine--and I won't be getting it. Neither will my children.

And before the knee-jerk name callers start flailing about in hysterics--calling me "an anti-vaccer", I proudly say that
all of my children are up-to-date on all of their vaccines. I am not an "anti-vaccer" or a "vax hater" or a pixie from
the planet Pookiebear.

The decision to not get myself or my kids the H1N1 virus was a quiet decision--made after weighing our options and speaking with
friends and family members who are in the healthcare profession.

I'm just a caring mom and science writer who believes that each family has to weigh the pros and cons and do what is best
for themselves and their family members.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. I would also err on the side of caution.

I do not plan on getting the vaccine. I have never gotten a flu shot..and never plan to.

[salvorhardin]

11. What problems with the 1976 swine flu vaccine are you concerned about?

The increase in GBS cases? That was largely overblown by the media I think as the increase was roughly only 1 additional case per 100,000 people over the baseline. That seems like a pretty minimal risk considering only one to two people per 100,000 contract GBS each year normally. And of course, as the article notes, this vaccine is not that vaccine.

And just for the record, I don't think you're a vaccination denialist. Mercola on the other hand, is the worst sort of liar.

[trotsky]

15. The vaccine is made from inactivated virus.

I.e., dead. Killed. It's an ex-virus. It is a virus no more. It's not pining for the fjords. There will be no long-term effects because the virus particles in the vaccine are not alive, do not come alive in your body, and are identified and swept up by your immune system.

THAT is a fact.

You may not be an anti-vaxer, but you have gotten misinformation and fear from them. Keep in mind that everyone around you will bear a slightly higher risk because you choose not to vaccinate. That's just a simple fact - look up "herd immunity" sometime.

[mzmolly]

32. I agree with you and I think your sentiments should extend to all

vaccines. :hi:

[HuckleB]

44. Why does the 1970s vaccine have anything to do with your decision on the current vaccine?

I presume you refuse to give your children seasonal vaccine shots as well. Is that right?

[LeftishBrit]

76. Fair enough; I don't get every treatment or vaccine that I could get either

I will get this vaccine (as soon as I've recovered from a current cold); but I tend not to get the seasonal flu one.

I don't have any problem with people making their own personal decisions; my problem is mainly with those who oppose governments making the vaccine *available* for those who want it. As I've said earlier, it is one thing to oppose vaccine mandates, and another to support mandates to *not* get vaccines. (Especially as the latter is often associated with a fundamental opposition to all government involvement in healthcare provision). I realize that you are not doing this; I am just explaining why I enter these debates.

[mzmolly]

31. Yes, let's put carcinogens in our bodies by choice because we already

have estrogen as a risk factor.

:eyes:

FYI, formaldehyde used in the manufacture of the nasal version of the H1N1 vaccine. As to the notion that we should dismiss formaldehyde as a concern, I'll post an answer to this question from a toxicologist I've corresponded with:

"The formaldehyde that our bodies make is during metabolism and therefore, is bound to enzymes and is not free. The actual free amount of formaldehyde in organs, blood etc is in the picogram range or less."

[mzmolly]

33. Meant to say "formaldehyde is NOT used in the manufacture of the nasal version of the H1N1 vaccine."

:blush:

[Chemisse]

52. Clever of Mercola to use actual, verifiable facts

To support something really absurd like swine flu pandemic is all an illusion.