VAERS reported adverse effects for FLUMIST, the inhaled seasonal flu vaccine

[mhatrw]

Most experts estimate that adverse effects are underreported to VAERS by at least a factor of 10.

http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

2 deaths
3 life threatening incidents
6 other hospitalizations
69 emergency room visits
242 not serious

322 adverse event reports, so far

Well, at least it doesn't have the thimerosal in it that all the commonly available injectable vaccines have. Right?

[stray cat]

1. Chosen parameters?

[mhatrw]

4. Incorrect. See my edit.

[StarryNite]

2. Lovely

And just when we find this out...

Will Fed.Government’s Proposed Mandatory Health Insurance Work?
October 29th, 2009 | By Robert Fredricks Posted in Health Insurance News

~snip~

What Will Be Considered Mandatory

The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current.

http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/health-insurance/will-fed-governments-proposed-mandatory-health-insurance-work-141/#comment-9

But the anti-choicers will be screaming that the government should be allowed to make them mandatory.

[TZ]

7. How many pf the 36,000 who die from influenza

Every year can be laid at anti-vax woos feet! Yay for infectious disease! It's all about my rights, eh? Anti vaxxers are selfish and dangerous

[StarryNite]

9. How many of

the people that died from influenza had received a vaccination for influenza?

Anti-choicers are dangerous and selfish people.

[mhatrw]

19. You're right. Those who ask for the medical rewards they gain to outweigh the medical risks

they take are all cold blooded, genocidal murderers!

[pnwmom]

18. Don't believe anything on that site. It's insurance industry propaganda. n/t

[StarryNite]

20. Do you have proof

or another link that says the CDC never said that? I'm being serious here. I would hate to think that this is what they have in mind. I've been digging around and so far haven't come up with anything saying otherwise though.

[pnwmom]

23. How could I prove that the CDC never said it? Logically, that's impossible.

But think about it. No final bill has yet been passed by either the House or the Senate. The CDC wouldn't be making pronouncements about a bill that doesn't even exist yet.

And your only source is an insurance company site opposing health reform. Don't believe them.

This is no more true than if they had said: "The CDC says under health reform, doctors will be required to kill your grandparents." And yet, you couldn't prove that the CDC had NEVER said that. Could you?

[StarryNite]

26. Well of course not

but I was hoping you had some hard evidence to prove that it is not going to be in the bill. I'm more proactive and don't like having to sit around until it's too late to do anything. Not that there really is anything we can do anyway.

[pnwmom]

32. There's a lot of fearmongering going on about health care reform, more on the

other side of the aisle, but some on both sides, unfortunately. It's really important to consider your sources, IMHO.

[laconicsax]

3. 2232 events out of more than 10 million doses

With those numbers, you have a slightly better chance of being hit by lightning once in your lifetime than having an adverse reaction to the vaccine.

[mhatrw]

6. And what is your chance of going to hospital for the swine flu?

Do you know how many people have opted for FLUMIST over injectable vaccinations? I cannot find that breakdown anywhere.

[TZ]

8. Pretty high for certain groups

Including pregnant women and young children. BTW you reLize that the groups that get flymist are different from the injectible. But considering how many young healthy people have fucking DIED from swine flu it's not even close. Plus by healthy people getting the vaccine they protect those who are unable to get the vaccine, typhoid Mary.

[mhatrw]

17. Show us the evidence that pregnant women are more likely to get

hospitalized because of the influenza virus rather than just because they are pregnant and are thus taking every precaution whenever they get sick.

Here is what the product insert for every CDC approved H1N1 flu vaccine has to say about pregnant women:

Pregnancy Category C: Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with (the new swine flu vaccine) or (the seasonal flu vaccine it is based on). It is also not known whether these vaccines can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity. (The new swine flu vaccine) should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

As for young children, the H1N1 vaccine works very poorly for them:

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/qaH1N1pedvax.htm

The preliminary results are based on blood samples taken 8 to 10 days after the first vaccination. Immune responses were strongest among the oldest children, those 10-to 17-years old. In this group of 25 children, a strong immune response was seen in 76 percent who received one 15-microgram dose of 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine. Among 25 volunteers aged 3 to 9 years old, a strong immune response was seen in 36 percent of those given 15 micrograms of vaccine. In the youngest group, 20 children between 6 months and 35 months old, a single 15-microgram dose of vaccine produced a strong immune response in 25 percent of recipients.

Translation: A strong immune response to vaccination was NOT seen in 64% of 3 to 9 year olds and 75% of 6 to 35 month olds.

I really don't expect a response.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

14. Making a personal attack adds nothing to your argument. I, for one, stopped at your subject line.

[mhatrw]

21. Why do 99% of seasonal and H1N1 injectable flu vaccines administered in this country

still contain thimerosal even though every manufacturer also makes single dose versions that do not contain thimerosal?

Here's my problem.

The trade off here is to receive an unknown factor of short term protection against a sickness that you probably won't get anyway and that you almost certainly will recover from completely if you do get (while gaining a measure of natural immunity) by accepting an admittedly small immediate but also unknown long term health risk in exchange for this promise of protection.

Given the small nature of the promised, but as of yet unproven, measure of protection, why is it so unspeakably crazy to want to accept the least possible risk?

I mean, can we have a reasonable discussion about this or not?

I don't want a vaccination inhaler because it is far less proven and far more problematic method of vaccination. What I want is my H1N1 flu shot without thimerosal. And all three manufacturers make these flu shots without thimerosal. So why can't I get what I want?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. You can't always get what you want.

[Warpy]

10. Most reported incidents are never linked to the vaccine.

You do know at least that much, don't you?

[mhatrw]

12. And most adverse effects go unreported.

You do know at least that much, don't you?

[HuckleB]

42. Prove it.

[pnwmom]

13. True. And most real adverse effects are never reported. It goes both ways.

The system as it is set up is not helpful. It is not designed to collect reports of all adverse effects and it is not designed to follow-up on reported adverse effects -- even deaths -- to determine if they were actually caused by the vaccine. (Researchers, including with the CDC and FDA, do not have access to subjects names and contact info, so they can't follow up on reports.)

So the fact that "most reported incidents are never linked to the vaccine" is true -- but meaningless. If there is no attempt to look for a causal link, then none will ever be found.

[kimmerspixelated]

11. Why is it when it comes to anything being discussed as negative

towards vaccines or Big Pharma in general, the mods feel the need to either move the discussion out of plain sight or kick it in the dungeon? As far as I can tell, other than the people I have on ignore, no one has gotten nasty yet, so why the cover-up from something reported from the cdc? I'd really like to know.

[StarryNite]

16. Good question! N/T

[pnwmom]

15. Actually, it is possible to get the injectable flu vaccine without thimerosal. n/t

[mhatrw]

22. That's what I thought. But the way the Big Pharma crowd around here is acting

as if asking for such a thimerosal-free vaccination is equivalent to Oliver asking for more gruel.

[pnwmom]

33. Yeah, I know. They can't stand to have anyone question any aspect of

the safety of any vaccine. As if every vaccine was equally vital and equally safe.

The thought that people might actually want to do their own thinking on this issue, in collaboration with their doctors, is deeply upsetting to them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Please tell her where she can get an injectable H1N1 vaccine so she'll quit asking everyone.

[trotsky]

24. Once again, people: VAERS is unverified.

It's open to any submission. A guy once reported to VAERS that a vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. It was logged and could not be removed from the database until he had given his permission.

NO ONE can make ANY conclusions on raw VAERS data. This is why the anti-vax loons love it, they can reach in there and grab whatever they want.

[mhatrw]

25. Just like the safety and efficacy of the new H1N1 vaccines.

[trotsky]

28. If only VAERS were as closely studied as the flu vaccine.

Then conclusions from it would be justified.

Keep trying!

[mhatrw]

29. Where can I get a single dose injectable H1N1 vaccine without thimerosal?

Can you help me me with this?

[trotsky]

30. Do you care to stay on topic?

Or do you realize you're defeated, and all you have left is red herrings?

[mhatrw]

34. Just wondering if you could help me. I guess not.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. See post #36.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. If you need it now you'll have to get the H1N1 flumist.

Clinical trials are being conducted on an injectable H1N1 vaccine without thimerosal.

[mhatrw]

41. What you actually mean is NO clinical trials have been conducted on ANY H1N1 vaccine WITH THIMEROSAL

Right?

Isn't that what you really mean?

[HuckleB]

44. Are you making a claim?

Or just spreading BS?

[mhatrw]

45. I am stating a fact.

This is just more typical CDC/Big Pharma "science." All of us get the shots with mercury, while CDC's safety trials are being done using shots without mercury. The http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/vteuH1N1qa.htm">CDC's safety trials on these new H1N1 vaccines are being done using the thimerosal-free or thimerosal-removed single dose versions of these vaccines. For example:

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/qaH1N1pedvax.htm

Do the vaccines used in the pediatric trials contain thimerosal or adjuvants?

No. The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine and the seasonal influenza vaccine used in these trials do not contain thimerosal or adjuvants.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1pregnanttrials.htm

Does the vaccine contain either the preservative thimerosal or an adjuvant?

No. The vaccine does not contain thimerosal, a preservative.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1VacASTHMAqa.htm

During the production of the vaccine, thimerosal, a chemical that prevents bacterial contamination, is required. This chemical is removed in the preparation of the single-dose syringes containing the vaccine, which will be used in this clinical trial.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1VacHIVChildYouthPregWomenqa.htm

The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine manufactured by Novartis contains a trace amount of thimerosal, a mercury derivative used in the manufacture of the vaccine and removed by subsequent purification steps.


But thanks for asking so nicely!

[HuckleB]

46. No, you're not.

We've been down this road far too many times on this board.

[mhatrw]

47. So that's it? I supply the CDC's own links proving I am right and you just close your eyes and

plug your ears to the facts? How typical.

[HuckleB]

48. You keep telling yourself that.

Your repeated obfuscations offer nothing but dangerous claims. And, again, you've proven nothing.

[mhatrw]

49. LOL.

BTW, how are your Big Pharma stocks doing?

[HuckleB]

50. And more red herrings from the conspiracy crowd.

ROTLFMAO!

[mhatrw]

51. Why isn't the CDC using the same thimerosal-spiked vaccines the public gets in its safety tests?

Answer the question.

All of us get the shots with mercury, while CDC's safety trials are being done using shots without mercury. The CDC's safety trials on these new H1N1 vaccines are being done using the thimerosal-free or thimerosal-removed single dose versions of these vaccines. For example:

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/qaH1N1pedvax.htm

Do the vaccines used in the pediatric trials contain thimerosal or adjuvants?

No. The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine and the seasonal influenza vaccine used in these trials do not contain thimerosal or adjuvants.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1pregnanttrials.htm

Does the vaccine contain either the preservative thimerosal or an adjuvant?

No. The vaccine does not contain thimerosal, a preservative.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1VacASTHMAqa.htm

During the production of the vaccine, thimerosal, a chemical that prevents bacterial contamination, is required. This chemical is removed in the preparation of the single-dose syringes containing the vaccine, which will be used in this clinical trial.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/QA/H1N1VacHIVChildYouthPregWomenqa.htm

The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine manufactured by Novartis contains a trace amount of thimerosal, a mercury derivative used in the manufacture of the vaccine and removed by subsequent purification steps.

[HuckleB]

52. Your response is to repeat the same BS?

Wow!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. 1: Case of Hulkism

[HuckleB]

43. +1

[Chemisse]

27. Isn't this just preliminary data?

How many of these incidents are related to the vaccine? I don't think anybody can know the answer to that until they investigate further.

For example, if I got the vaccine, then later that day was rushed to the hospital with appendicitis, it could be listed as an adverse event, yet turn out to be completely unrelated to the vaccine. Now if all 69 emergency visits were appendicitis also, then it would arouse a suspicion that it was somehow related to the vaccine, but not necessarily the cause of it (like perhaps the vaccine somehow put the body in a state that encouraged the emergence of a problem that was going to happen anyway).

So until the incidents have been studied, we really can't make assumptions.

[trotsky]

31. How DARE you bring facts & reasoning into an anti-vax thread!

They have no place here!

[mzmolly]

53. The problem is that most events are not investigated further.

eom

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. So 11 serious reactions. Wow that is remarkably safe. Thanks for posting.

[mzmolly]

54. How many vaccines have been given

do we know?

Thanks for the info mhatrw.

[HuckleB]

55. Pseudo-expertise versus science-based medicine

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2525