Autism Spikes, Toxins Suspected - Mercury Rising

[ensho]

http://counterpunch.com/


As the national focus on the H1N1 pandemic rages, additional evidence of a more insidious epidemic has emerged, with an all-too-expected shrug from the mainstream media. Results from two federal studies announced in October say parents have a 1-in-100-or-greater chance of having a child with an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Since boys are four times more likely to have an ASD, their odds are as high as 1 in 60.

On Oct. 2, Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told the press and about 50 members of the autism community that an unreleased Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study shows the incidence of 8-year-olds born in 1996 with ASDs is 1 in 100. The agency's last two studies of children born in 1992 and 1994 put the chance at 1 in 150.

On Oct. 5, the journal Pediatrics published the results of HHS's Maternal and Child Health Bureau's "2007 National Survey of Children's Health," which showed 1 in 91 children between the ages of 3 and 17 had autism.

-snip-

In Indiana, a grossly polluted state with comparatively high rates of autism, data reported to the Indiana Department of Education, by every public school system in the state, have shown spikes in the numbers of children enrolled in special education under the category "autistic" over the past three years. The federally required counts are called Child Count Data.

"Last year 1 in 128 students were served under the eligibility category of Autism Spectrum Disorders," Cathy Pratt, director of the Indiana Resource Center and chair of the National Autism Society of America, said for a story last spring. "This year's identification rate is 1 in 113."

-snip-

And federal officials' reported response to the new numbers suggests drama. In an Oct. 5 piece in Age of Autism, Kirby described Sebelius's call to the autism community as a "hastily arranged telephone 'visit,'" during which she announced that the "prevalence of autism might be even higher than previously thought."

The secretary then hedged a bit -- "We don't know if it has gone up, and we are hoping to unlock these mysteries." -- declared autism an "urgent public health challenge" and "promptly ended her visit," Kirby continued.

-snip-

“Some have called it ‘good news’ that doctors are now so proficient at diagnosing the milder forms of ASD,” Kirby wrote in the Huffington Post. “… Many will call me an alarmist, but I believe that 1-in-60 boys with an autism spectrum disorder is a national crisis -- and not just a reassuring confirmation of how things have always been.”

Plus, he added, to buy that argument is to accept the conclusion that 1-in-60 American males, young and old, have an ASD. “Do you really believe that 1 in 60 American men are autistic?” he asked.

For Kirby, the parallel rise in environmental pollution and autism rates are related. And federal officials need to shift their focus accordingly.
-snip-
--------------------------


something is happening and it is happening more often which is bad!

should women stop getting pregnant until the source is found?

[Taverner]

1. If we spent our time looking more at pollution and less at vaccines

This could have been prevented

[Junkdrawer]

2. The Coal Barrons say otherwise....

That's where the lions share of the mercury comes from.

[Taverner]

5. Yes - exactly

[KittyWampus]

3. Vaccines are one part of an entire whole where the human immunity system is subjected

to more and more stress.

One hundred years ago, the human environment, both outside and inside the body, had less pollutants, toxins and petrochemicals.

People being vaccinated 75-50 years were living in a different world with less stress to their immune systems AND getting fewer vaccines.

So to think that vaccines exist in some kind of conceptual vacuum where their effect is going to be the same to the human immunity system throughout time is absurd from a logical and scientific standpoint.

[Taverner]

4. There is no danger in vaccinations; the whole thing is a sham

There never has been, and there is not a link between Vaccines and Autism

Environment, however, different story

[KittyWampus]

7. Except some kids have what is quite like an allergic reaction to them. So you are WRONG.

That is why scientists are now working on ways of determining which kids might have an allergic reaction to vaccines.

[Taverner]

9. Yes, but those allergic reations do not cause AUTISM

So you are wrong

[KittyWampus]

11. You don't know what you are talking about. Child progresses normally in development-

gets vaccinated- has extreme physical responseto vaccine - child's developmental progress reverses or becomes retarded = vaccine caused a response which caused autism.

[Taverner]

12. I think its the other way around pally

[KittyWampus]

13. I am decidedly not your pal. And simple logic and empirical facts prove my statements.

[Taverner]

14. No you're my 'pally' - kind of like 'friendo' or 'bud'

As in "Hey bud, stop being such a dumbass"


And no there are no facts that show that vaccines cause autism. Unless you consider Jenny McCarthy a credible source. And from you're childish petulant attitude, I would assume you do, pally.



Sorry, you're wrong.

[Chemisse]

121. Perhaps you could try making your point in a more respectful way

[PVnRT]

58. You have neither empirical DATA (facts are not empirical) nor simple logic

So, yeah.

[NickB79]

16. Except that no scientific study has come to that conclusion

All they have found is that most autism symptoms begin to manifest around the SAME TIME as most major childhood vaccinations are given. Many children begin showing autistic behavior BEFORE they have their major vaccinations. At best, you have anecdotal evidence and not scientific evidence.

[Taverner]

18. Oh KittyWampus doesn't care about studies and facts

KW would have to leave their mother's basement for that

Either that or Kitty Wampus really is....Jenny McCarthy!!!

[KittyWampus]

27. hilarious, and you used the adjective "childish" in reference to me. You are a perfect example

of the assholish behavior that has made DU less and less worthwhile to me after all these years.

[Taverner]

30. There is this 'ignore' feature you know...

I am saying this now, since you're going on MY ignore list for being, well, a petulant child who's argumentative style like is very much like "Nuh-uh! That's what you are but what am I?"

Enjoy my ignore list, pally...

[KittyWampus]

26. Scientists don't really pay attention to parents reporting what is going on. I know half a dozen

parents, all of whom had a previous child and knew developmental issues, all of whom had pediatricians marking said progress of a child which had an extreme physical reaction AFTER THE VACCINATION and then either had progress reverse or become retarded.

And from what they glean from networking is that many other parents and their pediatricians observed this same sequence of events.

That the vaccines are obviously triggering something akin to an allergic reaction is like saying 1+1=2.

And it doesn't preclude kids becoming autistic outside of a vaccine being a trigger.

What is insane is that is proven unequivocally that environmental toxins cause problems in various species and yet the scientific establishment seems to have its head up its ass when it comes to fully admitting and studying how humans are being adversely effected. And I used the word FULLY. There are studies that pick around the edges and focus on this separate thing and that separate thing. But Science is so Reductionist a holistic view and approach is beyond most researchers capabilities.

Children and their immune systems are, from conception to birth and throughout their lives, being subjected to more and more toxins and pollutants.

To say a the immune system of a fetus, newborn, infant, toddler is under more an more stress now ais a statement of fact. That increases in stress cause a decrease in the function of our immune system is a fact. That compromised immune systems have extreme reactions to various substances is a statement of fact.

Something is triggering what is akin to an allergic reaction in kids that causes autism.

For some kids with hyper-sensitive immune systems, it might not even have to be a vaccine.

For some kids with immune systems on the verge of being hyper-sensitive it might be a vaccine that pushed their system over the edge.

[NickB79]

46. Scientists don't pay attention to what parents report? Bull

Numerous studies done to attempt to correlate autism and vaccinations have relied upon parental observations to come to their conclusions. How else do you think they perform their studies? Have a researcher move in with each of the tens of thousands of families in the studies so they can observe the child 24/7? Put tens of thousands of children in giant hamster cages for years on end?

Also, your anecdotal reports aren't even about research scientists. What you are doing is discussing the behaviors of pediatricians working in clinics as though it is interchangeable with the behavior of research scientists.

[Voice for Peace]

47. Support for your point of view

from this parent. Based on intuition and common sense, as well as research I did when my kids were small.

(And.. I think that arrogance ultimately leads to rude awakenings. edit to add, I'm not referring to you. :)

[Odin2005]

70. The kid had "developmental issues because they were ALREADY AUTISTIC AT BIRTH

and then the most obvious traits appeared when they usually do, which is around the same time kids get the MMR vaccine, which leads to people that don;t have a grasp of logic to equate correlation with causation. This this BS mass hysteria.

[NeedleCast]

77. Good, scienctists shouldn't pay attention to parents to get medical data

Your "six friends" are a perfect example of anecdotal evidence. Most people couldn't pass a 9th grade physical science class, so I'll leave the science to the scientists, the doctoring to the doctors and ignore your "six friends" who know dick-all about medicine.

[sendero]

99. You could fill an encyclopedia....

... with cases where medical "science" was not only wrong but dead wrong.

The fat lady has not sung on autism, period - and even when medical "science" says it has sung, wait another 20 years for the full truth.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Any scientific evidence to back that anecdote up?

[Taverner]

31. Nope - all KW has is "a friend of a friend who has this cousin..."

[KittyWampus]

36. what? That stress compromises the immune system function? That a compromised immune system

over-reacts to environmental factors and can even turn our own body against itself?

That the human immune system is now subjected to more and more environmental toxins and pollutants?

And your DU name includes the word "medic"?

[NickB79]

49. Stress on the immune system isn't necessarily a bad thing

If anything, we are seeing problems arising from a LACK of stress in some children due to their growing up in an environment with too few environmental factors to challenge and strengthen their immune systems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

What you are describing ("a compromised immune system over-reacts to environmental factors and can even turn our own body against itself") is actually indicative of an UNDERSTRESSED immune system. This is all explained very well in the Wiki link I provided for you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. So that would be no studies or scientific evidence? Thanks.

[Confusious]

90. Where's your proof?

Where's the studies that back up your claim?

Medic Dave probably uses techniques and medicine that have been *PROVEN* to work, not wave burning clove over the accident victim and *HOPE* his l33t shaman skills save them.

[alarimer]

52. There is no proven link there.

What you are describing is a logical fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Just because one thing follows another, it does not mean that they are linked. Those symptoms are entirely coincidental. There is no scientifically valid link between vaccines and autism. NONE WHATSOEVER. Only scientifically illiterate, ignorant people think. Learn some science and read people other than David Kirby. He is a crank. Anti-vaccine people are complete fucking idiots.

I am so tired of unscientific bullshit.

[KamaAina]

67. PSA: We don't say "retarded" any more.

Most self-advocates view that word as an offensive slur akin to the N-word. The PC term is "intellectual disability" or "cognitive disability".

Now I have to run out and get a big tub of :popcorn: ...

[Odin2005]

72. You noticed the demeaning language used by the anti-vaxers and pro-cure bigots, too, eh?

Fuck them.

[Chemisse]

122. Yeah until some kid tells another kid he has a 'cognitive disability'

Then that will become a nasty word, and a new one will be foisted upon us, hopefully one with fewer syllables.

[Odin2005]

69. Those cases were manufactured lies.

The most obvious autistic traits do not appear until about the same time kids the the MMR vaccine. Perfect recipe for people falling for correlation-causation fallacies, followed by verification bias and then mass hysteria whipped by by frauds like David Kirby we manipulated parents and created lies.

[Confusious]

89. I call bullshit

There is study that says there is no difference in autism between vaccinated and vaccinated kids.

The original study faked results:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece

[Odin2005]

105. Ephasis on "THE ORIGINAL STUDY FAKED RESULTS".

Like I said, this anti-vax BS is based on FRAUD and HUCKSTERISM.

Wakefield should be in prison.

[LeftishBrit]

143. Autism usually does not involve a regression in a totally typically developing child..

but autism first becoming obvious at an age (typically 2nd year of life), when typically developing children meet crucial milestones in social interaction and communication. A younger autistic child may seem 'normal' until that age, if their IQ is average, because that *is* the time when typical children start showing the abilities that autistic children have particular problems in developing.

There are some children who show a real regression, but that is very rare, and has not been linked to vaccines despite extensive study.

Vaccines (like any medicine) can rarely cause severe reactions; bad illnesses; and on extremely rare occasions death - but they are not the cause of autism.

[defendandprotect]

25. Our immune systems are already compromised .... agree --

Nor do we know the long term effects of these vaccines --

It is the living conditions, culture and standards which have to be changed.

When e-coli breaks out they decide to radiate ground "meat" --

rather than changing the environment of the slaughter houses, etal --

We have to begin to understand why these things happen rather than responding

with idiotic new programs.

Vaccines haven't been studied enough, obviously.

[seabeyond]

29. big difference gettin 3 or 4 when we were kids and getting 30 something now.

not to mention all the other stuff you say.

[TZ]

81. BWAHAHA!

Typical ignorant post...Did you know that there are scientific studies which show that the more one's immune system is stimulated in childhood the less likely you are to get chronically ill later in life from things like asthma and allergies! Its why doctors tell children to go play in the dirt. And the idea that our immune systems are exposed to more stuff now? HAHAHAHAHA!
I guess sanitation and controlled environments like heating and air conditioning existed during the stone age too.
You seriously have NO KNOWLEDGE OF SCIENCE OR RATIONALITY. So easy to mock.
I bet your anscestors would have been urging the Europeans to kill cats because everyone KNEW the black plague was caused by demons!

[SoCalDem]

83. "...go play in the dirt..." unless that dirt is full of toxins n/t

[laughingliberal]

135. Not sure heating and air conditioning have improved our protection from disease

Didn't Legionnaire's originate in an air conditioning system?

[salvorhardin]

136. Legionellosis is caused by a bacteria

Prior to 1976 it was unknown, but the bacteria didn't spontaneously appear in the water tower of the Bellevue Stratford Hotel (the A/C system pumped it in). It was likely in the environment for a long time prior to the Philadelphia outbreak. I fail to see how you can blame air conditioning for the origin of Legionella.

Legionella only affects between 8,000 and 18,000 people a year in the United States (between 0.002% and 0.006% of the U.S. population). Your chances are contracting it are extraordinarily small, yet air conditioning is wide-spread in U.S. homes, and nearly ubiquitous in commercial buildings.

Even if you do contract Legionellosis, it's not terribly deadly. In the Philadelphia outbreak, about 15% of the people who contracted it died. That was before we knew how to identify and treat Legionellosis. Also, as a result of the Philadelphia outbreak, health departments have much more stringent regulations regarding cleaning of cooling towers and A/C systems.

Putting aside that it's incredibly unlikely that Legionella originated in the Bellevue Stratford's cooling tower, given the incredibly small odds of any particular person contracting Legionellosis I think the benefits of modern heating and air conditioning far outweigh the risks.

[laughingliberal]

137. I am aware Legionnaires is a bacteria. I am also aware it was spread by a contaminated...

air conditioning system. Also molds and fungi develop in the ducts. Just wasn't sure why heating, air-conditioning, and controlled environments offered us protection from disease. Perhaps, people do not die of exposure as often and, certainly, we are more comfortable. But I don't see it being much protection against communicable diseases.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. I have always felt it was a mistake not to look at environmental factors, which not only

affect the kids after they are born but the parents who made them.

[Taverner]

19. I think its the 800lb gorilla in the room

Even some "safe" areas like, say New Almaden in San Jose have higher rates of autism. A little research shows that whole area was mined for Mercury at the turn of the century.

So even in "safe" places there is a spike, think about the Coal Mining towns...

[KamaAina]

65. Lots of California was mined for mercury around then

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/18/health/main5319444.shtml

Abandoned mercury mines throughout central California's rugged coastal mountains are polluting the state's major waterways, rendering fish unsafe to eat and risking the health of at least 100,000 impoverished people....

While millions live in the affected Delta region, the pollution disproportionately hurts the poor and immigrants who rely on local fish as part of their diet, according to a study conducted by University of California, Davis ecologist Fraser Shilling. His research found that 100,000 people, which he calls a conservative estimate, regularly eat tainted fish at levels deemed unsafe by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency....

But neither the state nor federal government has studied long-term health effects of mercury on the people who regularly eat fish from these waters....

Mercury from mine waste travels up the food chain through bacteria, which converts it to methylmercury - a potent toxin that can permanently damage the brain and nervous system, especially in fetuses and children.

edit: Sure would be interesting to find out if there's a cluster of autism in the Delta...

[LeftishBrit]

144. I agree with this

Although there is a strong genetic component to autism, there is evidence that prenatal factors (such as illnesses in the mother) can increase the risk of autism in the infant. It would certainly be worth looking more at the effects of maternal nutrition, as well as prenatal exposure to pollutants.

There is no *solid* evidence that pollution increases the risk of autism - but unlike the situation with vaccines, the pollution factor has received very little study so far and should get a lot more.

[MercutioATC]

6. Hmmm...we used to play with mercury as kids.

And if you broke a thermometer, you just wiped up the spilled mercury with a dish towel and threw the towel in the laundry.


Perhaps SOME of the increase in children diagnosed with autism is environmental...however, a great deal of it is also due to increased identification.

[Posteritatis]

10. Isn't it interesting how we've gone from that to getting autism from single atoms of the stuff? (nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Agreed, I think there is some increase in ID that may be adding to the issue.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Certainly the rise is diagnosis can be partly attributed to increased ID.

But most of the rate of increase cannot.

It's clear that an environmental trigger plays a role. It is too soon to focus on, or rule out, any specific cause.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Agreed

[MercutioATC]

120. There used to be 9 "types" of autism. Now there are something like 26.

"Autism" is a catchall diagnosis that covers a lot of issues...and the scope of what qualifies as autism is expanding.

[BeFree]

24. Gawd

Having mercury in its solid state and having it disbursed through the air and water
in soluble and minute particles is like night and day.

We breathe mercury now, and we ingest it on a regular basis. I can't believe I have to tell you this....

On Edit:
The above was a reply to post #6 as quoted here....
"6. Hmmm...we used to play with mercury as kids.

And if you broke a thermometer, you just wiped up the spilled mercury with a dish towel and threw the towel in the laundry.


Perhaps SOME of the increase in children diagnosed with autism is environmental...however, a great deal of it is also due to increased identification."

[gimberly]

57. Maybe mercury has a bigger effect in vitro? as does alcohol

Just wondering.

[AspenRose]

8. I wish I could remember where I saw the stat

that there seemed to be more children under the autism spectrum in states where there were higher rates of environmental pollution and toxins

The rates were lowest in the south and west and highest in the northeast

There are probably many contributing factors, but I wouldn't be surprised if environmental pollution is one of the factors. Autism was almost unheard of in the 40s and 50s.

[ensho]

21. back then 40', 50' I never was in a class room where a student couldn't

sit still and be quiet. there were no special classes for special needs kids.

I never knew or heard of a woman having an autism child.

[seabeyond]

32. i knew one autistic child and so severe was not part of school system. and yes

to the rest of your post.

when i first started son about 4 in preschool, spent a lot of time with his classmates over next four years, nieces adn nephews, i saw such a change in childrens behavior, and no.... it was not parenting. it was visible the differences. and have since spent a lot of time reading, and talking to teachers over last decade

[northzax]

39. of course there were

don't be silly. they just weren't in the same schools as the 'normal' kids. they were in special schools and institutions, or kept at home because they were 'retarded' and many high functioning autism spectra children were simply forced into the mainstream to sink or swim (see Professor Temple Grandin of Colorado State University, born 1947) luckily, her parents could afford to send her to private schools specializing in 'difficult' children. google them, and find how many of these schools existed before WWII, I can think of a dozen off the top of my head right now, mostly in New England, mostly very expensive.

plus, since the term Autism wasn't even coined until 1943, not all that many people were on the lookout for the diagnosis.

[LeftyMom]

44. That's because disabled kids weren't integrated into normal schools.

Usually they were sent away to institutions.

[donco6]

85. It wasn't because they didn't exist.

They just didn't go to school. The lucky ones stayed home. The unlucky were sent to mental institutions.

[unc70]

139. You were never in a class with me. You would have remembered.

Really bad ADD, really smart, and really bored. Could not keep quiet, fidgeted, distracted by classmates. I often had to sit in a desk at the front and away from my classmates. I was a teacher's nightmare, made worse since my mother taught in the same school and knew how much disruption I caused her fellow teachers. There were a lot of other kids with "special needs" in every class, even excluding those in institutions or special schools.

My school had 50-60 kids in each grade (2 classrooms). In any grade, there might be 2-3 who would now be classified as ADD/ADHD, 1-3 needing speech therapy (including me), 3-4 dyslectics, 1-2 mentally ill (the ones who enjoyed torturing animals and other kids, or with uncontrolled rage leading to physically attacking others), and many dealing with problems at home - physical abuse, molestation, hunger, severe poverty, alcohol, drugs, violence, ...

Most people still saw autism as another example of bad parenting and a moral failing, and only Eric Schopler and a few others saw it as a disease. Autism and related conditions were probably obscured by polio, MD, injuries from accidents and war, childhood diseases and complications, birth defects, leukemia, and a lot of other things.

Current research at Duke, UNC, and elsewhere will soon unravel this disease and many others. When that happens, it might still take years before most people believe the research. It took twenty years after scientific proof was published that bacteria cause gastric ulcers before antibiotics became the standard treatment. Likely longer to accept that an adenovirus that jumped from birds to mammals about 1978 is resonsible for much of the dramatic increase in morbid obesity. (It resembles the protein used to regulate fat retention in cells.)

[LeftishBrit]

145. Children with severe problems weren't included in mainstream schools then..

and it's a bit of a myth that children in the 40s and 50s were always able to 'sit still and be quiet' in school. There may have been more separation of able from less able children even in 'normal' schools - certainly this was true in the UK, where 'streaming' was common from an early age - so that the abler pupils may not have encountered the less able/more difficult children. But I have just been reading "This Right Soft Lot" and "Roaring Boys", autobiographical novels by Edward Blishen about his experiences as a teacher in a tough inner-city English secondary school in the 1950s. It is obvious from his accounts that behaviour problems ranging from ordinary rowdiness to deeply disturbed behaviour were very common. A lot of this would have been due to social factors and negative cultural attitudes to education, but some of the problems clearly went beyond that.

[Confusious]

91. In the 40's and 50's if you had mental problems

they threw you in an asylum in a padded room, who cares what you got? case closed.

[Common Sense Party]

119. Except that autism rates have been spiking in the last 20 years

even in areas where pollution has been drastically reduced.

Something's going on, and we'd all like to know what it is, but we tend to want simple answers, often ones that coincide with our predetermined biases.

[wroberts189]

20. I have read woman should not eat tuna and other ocean fish while pregnant....

They spit mercury out of the smokestacks to rain on the ocean. It builds up in the tissues of fish.

I find a small bottle ...perhaps an 8th of an once in my basement left from the old owner ..and its treated like plutonium at the yearly haphazardness waste collection point.

Stop burning the trash.

[seabeyond]

23. i have one child effected by it. came evident immediately after 2 yr old shots as people demand i

refuse what my experience and eyes saw.

a couple years ago i noticed the increase in his behavior after tuna. tried it again a couple months later and saw for sure. we havent eaten tuna since

i have also seen behavorial changes after some of the fish i serve. so i work hard at keeping updated on ok fish to eat, and not ok.

i have another son that isnt effected at all.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. If he had been diagnosed with cancer after the vaccines would that prove a link?

How is he doing now? What is the diagnosis? It is good that you have been able to identify certain triggers. What year was he given the shots?

[seabeyond]

35. nothing would matter to you what i say, what i experienced what i saw.

you are as closed to it as so many on this board. as the people that refuse to do a trustworthy study, above board, where there wont be any doubt.

you dont even know what the experience was. you dont know anything, and you dont ask. just rejection.

it is nice to have such convictions, in dealing with kids health. to be so unconcerned because you are so very sure and trust... whatever.

i dont have that confidence and faith. but i do have experience, you are clueless about. so i have to wonder each time i get the kid another vaccination, i know isn't necessary, if i am doing more prolong damage to the essence of who he is, because people are protecting the whole vaccination process. a few at the expense for the whole. not an unknown concept in human experience

unless of course, it is your child you are fuckin with.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. Yet when asked questions about your experience you refuse to answer.

[seabeyond]

96. you are right on. my bad

i mean,... my really really bad. i read subject only, lol lol. and i will tell you, every once in a while i am caught with pants down so blatantly it makes me stay on toes for a long long time. i will in the future.

they start getting shots at newborn. within days. shots that they dont need that young. they get them like three times first year. then it starts slowing down. two. then four. and then they started requiring four different vacs, so he has gotten them last five years.

he was always different. sensitive to stimuluses. noise, lights. didn't sleep like newborns and other kids. so yes... there had always been things with the kids

at two though, he got his shots. late that night and four, five nights after he laid in bed doing this game with the hand like you saw in movies of autism. eyes open but would break focus into space, pick up us talking to him. just laid there doing a pattern with hand. (and however long after i didn't see, late into night) from that point on i saw he could not follow my fingers when i would point at something. he is almost 15 and still cannot. i will point to a plane and he will be looking in other direction. once walking to me i held up hand said stop and counted. took 8 steps to register the word and hand signal to stop. these were before school

it was also the time they were drugging all the kids. labeling the kids. i didn't want him a part of that. we worked on the weaknesses at home finding tools for him.

his kindergarten teacher gave me an excellent book on different learning styles. he cant do sequential thinking. she would have 5 steps in direction. he would start in middle, #3. if there is noise or action in class he it is a fuzzy brain and cannot here or focus on words being said to his. up until high school, i have talked to teachers and they work with him. he is the easiest child. so smart, grades are easy for him.

i have not gotten him diagnosed. i dont want him diagnosed. he doesn't get to use an excuse. his play has always been used to help him with structure and organization.

we use to eat tuna often. i started noticing after tuna he would be exceptionally bad in focusing for days. i fed him it and watched. took tuna out. we eat fish often. started picking up sometimes with fish. did research and saw like cod would be heavy in mercury. so now i am particular what and where the fish comes from.

i am sure other things does it to him too.

i have never been anti vac. but i do believe that during his time, in 90's kids who were prone were triggered.

they have lowered the amounts in them. they have done studies, i read again today to validate what i remembered. though people like to say it is a for sure it isn't.

they did the first study in 2001. came out non conclusive. did another in 2004 and this is the resulting statement that so many insist means... there is no problem.

http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228

In 2004, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee issued its final report, examining the hypothesis that vaccines, specifically the MMR vaccines and thimerosal containing vaccines, are causally associated with autism. In this report, the committee incorporated new epidemiological evidence from the U.S., Denmark, Sweden, and the United Kingdom, and studies of biologic mechanisms related to vaccines and autism since its report in 2001. The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.



"The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only"

that doesn't sound to me like the definite that people insist on. so if people are not totally convinced, i think that is understandable. next paragraph

"The FDA is continuing its efforts to reduce the exposure of infants, children, and pregnant women to mercury from various sources. Discussions with the manufacturers of influenza virus vaccines (which are now routinely recommended for pregnant women and children 6-23 months of age) regarding their capacity to potentially increase the supply of thimerosal-reduced and thimerosal-free presentations are ongoing. Discussions are also underway with regard to other vaccines. Of note, all hepatitis B vaccines for the U.S., including for adults, are now available only as thimerosal-free or trace-thimerosal-containing formulatons. In addition, all immune globulin preparations including hepatitis B immune globulin, and Rho(D) immune globulin preparations are manufactured without thimerosal. For additional information on the issue of thimerosal in vaccines,"

now they have it out or trace amount, a big difference from my sons time.

i would like to find what they have in the chicken pox shot. but haven't found the info yet.

*a note: there is 15 yr info of watching, listening, observing, reading, on this child. maybe that is why i dont bother. even with all this crap, it barely touches the subject

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

100. Thanks. Very informative.

A former colleague of mine had a nephew that was autistic. His parents both have PhDs in Chemistry. They treated him much as you have decided to. He has done extremely well and although I was able to pick up on something when I met him, the other guys at the station had no idea. He's been able to stay at the same grade level as his twin. You really seem like a good parent, your son is lucky to have you.

[seabeyond]

103. he told me years ago, 7 or 8

i was the perfect mom for him. hands down NOT the perfect mom by any means. but for him with all his oddities. he couldnt imagine any mom being able to do him the way i do. many adults were bothered with this little adult. and he picked up on it easily. we work well together

they are interesting kids. i tell him, i am so lucky to have him. he makes me laugh.... i will drive him to store to have him pick up something. pull into space and turn everything off and just sit there. waiting for him to realize it is time to get out of car. we could sit there five, ten minutes easy. lol. just sit there. then he realizes and i laugh. and he will giggle.

a trip

thanks fire medic dave

i havent talked about him in a while. generally keep mouth shut about all this. every once in a while i have to just say something. appreciate you being so nice.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

109. Thank you for sharing.

I have a severely mentally handicapped niece, she's 22 now. I grew up with a moderately mentally handicapped friend, my mom brought him to the Fire Station about 7 years ago. I took him for a ride, let him ride in the captains seat and blow the siren. The expression of joy on his face was so pure it brings tears to my eyes now writing about it. Looking back on when I was in school I can think of many kids that would now be diagnosed with something. I'm curious about the causes of autism. I not saying that vaccines couldn't contribute to problems in a child with a previously undiagnosed problem like the Hannah Poling case. I just haven't seen the evidence of anything widespread. It also is bothersome that while Thimerosal has been removed from routine childhood vaccines since 2001 the rates of autism have continued to rise. The blame on vaccines may confuse and delay other research. Of course the brain is still uncharted territory in many regards there are still plenty of doctors that don't believe in depression, etc. I wish the best for you and your family.

David

[Chemisse]

125. He sounds like a great kid

Congrats on doing your very best for him; it's great that he knows how lucky he is!

[juno jones]

34. My eldest son is aspberger's.

He reacted badly to his 8 weeks shots. My father, who worked with the disabled and dealt with small children with similar problems became concerned that he had bagun to hold himself 'funny' and 'stiffly' (noticable by grandpa because he loved babies and was the one who would stay up and rock them every night).

I'm willing to say something set off a genetic thing, because both my dad and I would probably be considered aspberger's (I scored pretty high on the test that is circulated on the internet) but neither of us had any physical symptoms, like rocking or tiptoeing like my son. But the fact remains, something set it off about that time and my dad made mention of when my son's behavior changed...right after those shots.

[seabeyond]

37. my husband and i noticed it about 1 a.m. day of shot. check on him before bed.

actually i was watching the behavior and called hubby in. i stated autism, as we stood there watching. this was in 97. well before any info came my way. it was years before we heard autism or other related to vaccinations.

[juno jones]

40. Yeah, same here.

In '90 there was no outcry about the shots. Not on the radar at all. But my son immediately changed his behavior after having them.
And we noticed at the time. Edit to add behavioral changes noticed by two professionals in the field of childhood development who specialized in working with the handicapped including autistic children. My parents were no slouches (one a master's in education, the other a physical therapist who both worked for the state of IL) and my son is probably sucessful at college because my mom worked with him and fought for him for years.

But y'know, thats all anecdotal thus it didn't happen. :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

41. and parent, what ever you do, just shut the fuck up, you dont know shit. nt

[msanthrope]

43. Don't shut up, just base your speculations on something that

isn't woo based.


Seriously.

[seabeyond]

45. right. i will just keep telling myself i really didnt see what i saw.

i try. i try year after year listening to you people on the board so i dont get this crap of "woo base" like that isnt exactly telling a person to shut the fuck up. but hell, sometimes i actually say out loud what i experienced, saw.

my bad

if it isnt you saying shut the fuck up, what are you saying. all i am saying is this is what i saw after two year old shots.

so are you saying that is "woo based"

[msanthrope]

48. What you saw has a fairly simple explanation---

At eighteen months to two years, most children with autism begin to exhibit symptoms that make their autism noticeable. Prior to 18 months-two years, their developmental issues are often masked by the fact that they only slightly lag behind their peers, or are otherwise considered on the slow end of development--but normal, given the wide ranges for certain milestones.

If you are honest with yourself, you will probably remember that your child didn't make their developmental milestones ahead of the curve, but either solidly in the middle of the curve or lagging at the end.

But it became really noticeable at two years--which is when you probably had the two-year old well check and realized just how far your kid was behind.

Happened to me, too. Parents often conflate, looking back over time. It's easy to do.

Thing is, there's nothing you did, or could do. It wasn't your fault--injecting your child with anything. There is no explanation right now, so try to forgive yourself and move on.

[seabeyond]

50. totally respect you post. it is off, but i respect.... lol

this is a uniquely different child. he wasnt behind the curve, he was in front of it in most things, or the important things. the odd ball things he was behind in just left us amazed and curious. it is much bigger to me than any one thing. that is why i watch different things that escalate it even at this age. yes he was different even as a baby.

this isnt a thread to discuss it. i try, try, try to stay off these threads. was pulled in cause of mercury in pollutants today and i am a believer it effects some kids significantly

anytime we are on a thread discussing our different children, i will value your wealth of knowledge, i am sure you have.

[msanthrope]

56. Right there---you have your answer....

My kid was ahead of the curve in what mattered--a sense of love, empathy, and joy. She's amazingly funny and an endearing odd ball.

She was behind the curve in milestones like making eye contact, appropriate response to stimuli, communication.....

She was a kid who had perfect, and amusing enunciation as she played along, completely oblivious to her teachers....and even now, she is just amazing, I would not change a thing.

So I respect your experience, too, and I do not discount it--I merely view it differently.

We did not fuck up our children. We got dealt a shitty hand, (which could be faaaaar worse!) and you, like me, are just trying to do what is best.

[Chemisse]

126. That must be incredibly frustrating

To have your observations treated with such disdain.

Nobody knows a baby - or a child - better than its parents, and if so many parents say they noticed an abrupt change just after a vaccination, it should at the very least arouse one's suspicions.

[trotsky]

134. But that's just it, no one has disregarded these claims.

To the contrary, they've investigated them. And found nothing.

[Flying Dream Blues]

104. Self-delete of misdirected post. nt

[msanthrope]

42. You are right--anecdote isn't data. My autistic kid had

no reaction to her preservative free, single shot vaccines.

I get that you need to point the finger at something definite, something to make order out of the chaos, but this isn't it.

There is not a single, credible source that backs the autism/vaccine insanity. Accept the fact that you may never know why, stop blaming yourself, and move on.

[juno jones]

51. I would love to see what my parents would have made of all of this.

Your kid had preservative free vaccines. Good for her. Mine didn't.

It just seems weird that my father noticied the dystonia of my son's muscles the night of the shot. He said it felt like he was holding the center of his gravity somewhere outside his body and he was holding himself too stiffly for a newborn. From a specialist in early childhood education who had held that child every night since he had been born. (And many normal babies as well, he was the gentle soul who sat up all night with all the babies in the family).

I am not arguing about autism having a genetic component. I'm on the spectrum too. But there seems to be evidence that something was triggering episodes like this in the 90's before the big-to-do about vacs even came to pass.

As far as blaming myself, I never do. Aspberger's ain't a death sentence although you get to know who your friends are really quickly. I blame the companies and the public health center my poverty forced me to go to that stuck mercury in their vials so they could be used multiple times in an assembly line fashion, cha-ching cha-ching...

PS: I don't mean to come off coldly. I am sorry your daughter is autistic. It's hard for any family to deal with.

[msanthrope]

59. Sometimes, when you hold hammer all day, everything is a nail.

I am not suggesting that your father is 'wrong.' But his obvious closeness to the case doesn't make for dispassionate, scientific observation. The 'triggering episode' phenomena is commonly reported, but isn't borne out by science.


You do not come off coldly. We are all parents, trying to do the best in a not-the-greatest situation. I reserve my true anger for shitheads like McCarthy and Carrey, who can afford 24 hr OT and care, and preach their Scientology bullshit.

[Confusious]

92. Sorry for your problems

But the mercury in thermisol is not *FREE* mercury. It's located within a compound, so it has a completely different effect. It's also been around since the late 1920's, and was placed in alot of consumer products.

If you got a preservative free vaccine, you probably have a higher chance of dying, due to bacterium growing in the vaccine.

[Chemisse]

123. That could go along with theory that

Children with autism cannot clear mercury like normal kids do. Otherwise it is hard to imagine how tuna could affect him on the spot like that.

I read this somewhere last week, but forget where.

[alarimer]

53. Not all fish, not even all marine fish carry mercury in their tissues.

Again the environmental alarmists have confused the issue beyond all reason.

SOME fish, especially those at the top of the food chain (some tuna, mackerel, sharks especially) CAN have higher levels of mercury.

Fish that feed lower on the food chain are okay to eat or those that are FARM-RAISED are okay to eat. Catfish, Tilapia, salmon, trout, etc.

And, on edit, the real problem with consuming mercury is that it is a potent neurotoxin. It does not cause autism no matter how much you might eat. There is simply no such link. Google Minimata Bay for a look at what it can really do.

[wroberts189]

54. Thanks for the clarification... I was wondering about Tilapia and farm raised..nt

[seabeyond]

55. talipia from china is high. you have to see where the fish is from

we have found most all farm fish ok.

[earth mom]

60. The pharma giants are makng sure that they muddy the waters enough to NEVER find the cause

of the Autism epidemic.

As well, the * administration made sure that they can't be sued either, so it's all good for them.

So no doubt, the pharma giants are loving the "environmental pollution" angle being pushed here.

Even though it does NOT explain as to why thousands of parents of children with autism noticed an EXTREME before and after once their children were given vaccinations.

Yeah, let's just brush that major part of the story aside.

Who cares really, except the parents & families of these kids?

And it works for the pharma giants quite perfectly, doesn't it? :puke:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chemisse]

127. Well fortunately the mercury has been removed from the vaccines

So if it did contribute to development of autism, it won't be doing that anymore.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

61. from iaomt.org and Consumers for Dental Choice

Is there a concern about the use of mercury in dentistry?
Many people do not realize the "silver" amalgam fillings are 50% mercury. A large filling may contain as much mercury as a thermometer. Mercury vaporizes easily at room temperature, and in this state, is odorless, colorless and tasteless. Inhaled mercury vapor is readily absorbed into the bloodstream. The World Health Organization has concluded that dental fillings contribute more mercury to a person's body than all other sources of mercury combined. Mercury is a powerful poison. Published research demonstrates that mercury is more toxic than lead, cadmium or arsenic. No amount of exposure to mercury vapor can be considered harmless. Especially considering its cumulative effect.

Is there an associated health risk?
Mercury is the most toxic, non-radioactive element on the earth. Most medical and scientific researchers have called for a ban on the use of mercury in all products. However, the potential harmful effects of mercury fillings have been ignored by the U.S. Government. Due to its poisonous nature, mercury can adversely affect the immune, urinary, cardiac, respiratory and digestive systems. Under laboratory conditions, mercury has produced brain cell deterioration identical to that seen in victims of Alzheimer's disease.

Should I have my mercury fillings removed?
The IAOMT believes you should (unless you are pregnant or lactating). Mercury vapor is continuously emitted from dental fillings and accumulates in the body over time. The damaging effects of this exposure may not manifest for years or even decades. Studies repeatedly demonstrate that even low levels of mercury cause measurable adverse health effects. Mercury in the tissues of a fetus or infant correlates significantly with the number of dental amalgam fillings in the mother. Newborns may be at risk for learning disabilities because of mercury their mother absorbed during pregnancy. Many physicians are testing their patients for mercury toxicity and referring them to biological dentists. Across scientific disciplines, health professionals are realizing that mercury may adversely impact patient health.

Should I take supplements prior to mercury filling removal?
Most biological dentists work in conjunction with physicians, who may prescribe supplements prior to the removal of mercury fillings. It is imperative that chronically ill patients seek advice from a physician knowledgeable in mercury toxicity issues.

Is there a proper way to remove mercury fillings?
To prevent additional mercury exposure, find a biological dentist properly trained in mercury filling removal. Patients should inquire about the following amalgam removal protocols:


Utilizing an efficient suction system in the oral cavity with a special tip or its equivalent to contain amalgam particles and mercury vapors.

Operating a vacuum system at maximum efficiency.

Applying copious amounts of water to the filling during removal.

Removing the amalgam in large segments to minimize the generation of mercury vapor and amalgam particulate.

Providing the patient and dental staff with a mercury-free source of air.
================================================


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/the-mercury-mischief-as-o_b_271520.html

As Obama Warns of Hazards, the FDA approves Mercury Dental Fillings
By Ellen Brown

The 2008 Obama/Biden Plan for a Healthy America also stressed preventive approaches to disease, including the reduction of toxins to which the body is exposed; and chief among these toxins was mercury. The Plan stated as a fundamental goal:

Reduce Risks of Mercury Pollution. More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood, and approximately 630,000 newborns are born at risk every year. The EPA estimates that every year, more than one in six children could be at risk for developmental disorders because of mercury exposure in the mother's womb.

As a Senator, Obama was responsible for extensive legislation reducing environmental exposure to mercury, including a ban on the export of elemental mercury, and legislation to phase out the use of mercury in the manufacture of chlorine.

Mercury can get into the blood by various routes, and one that has been lately in the news is the mercury found in the thimerosol in vaccines. Another source that made the news in July is the mercury released from dental fillings by chewing. The World Health Organization has stated that between 3-17 micrograms of mercury are released into the body each day by chewing, compared to only 2-5 micrograms from fish and all other environmental sources combined. In 1990, the New England Journal of Medicine published an editorial calling mercury amalgam fillings "possibly the chief source of exposure of a large segment of the U.S. population".

Surprise FDA Ruling

When mercury amalgam made the news on July 29, 2009, however, it was not to warn of its hazards. Rather, it was to report the FDA's surprise ruling that mercury fillings are safe. The ruling came after years of foot dragging by the FDA and a wave of consumer lawsuits. A growing consumer movement had amassed so much evidence for the dangers posed by mercury dental fillings that when a court finally ordered the FDA to come out with a ruling, the plaintiffs announced, "We won!" But instead of the declaration they expected, the FDA imposed no restrictions on the use of mercury amalgam. Dentists were not even required to inform their patients that "silver" fillings are composed mostly of mercury. The FDA conceded that it did not know if amalgam was harmful to children under six, pregnant women, or nursing mothers, but it took no steps to protect them. It even pulled from its website an existing neurological risk advisory that said, "Dental amalgams contain mercury, which may have neurotoxic effects on the nervous systems of developing children and fetuses."

Consumer advocates were stunned, as the FDA had earlier agreed to strengthen its warnings against mercury amalgam fillings. The evidence against mercury amalgam dental fillings was considered so compelling that Sweden, Norway, and other countries had already banned their use entirely. Degussa, Germany's largest producer of amalgam and the world's largest producer of metals for dentistry, completely shut down its amalgam production after a federal court ruled that dentists who used it faced legal liability. The FDA was expected to follow suit.

Why its unexpected about-face? Charles Brown, of the National Counsel for consumers for Dental Choice, suggests it had to do with a change in personnel. In May 2009, Dr. Margaret Hamburg succeeded to the post of FDA Commissioner. The Wall Street Journal noted that for five years before that, she served on the board of Henry Schein Inc., a $4 billion firm that distributes medical and dental supplies, including vaccines. Brown wrote skeptically:

Washington is famous for the revolving door -- those in the party out of power take highly paid corporate positions, then return to government to bail out their benefactors. The new FDA Commissioner, Margaret Hamburg, worked in the Clinton Administration, then went out and became a director at the dental products colossus Henry Schein, earning a quarter million dollars a year for the handful of hours it takes to be a director. Corporations do this because they know the other party will return to power, at which time the corporations will call in their chits.


Science or Politics? The Liability Question

Beyond that potential conflict of interest, there was likely to have been heavy pressure from the American Dental Association, the professional union of dentists. If mercury amalgam were officially declared to be toxic, an estimated two billion mercury amalgam fillings might have to be replaced at practitioners' or insurers' expense, not to mention the flood of lawsuits for medical injuries that would follow.



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/the-mercury-mischief-as-o_b_271520.html

[cpompilo]

62. Many austic kids do very well on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet

www.BreakingTheViciousCycle.info and www.PecanBread.com
Also, read the book 'Children With Starving Brains' by Dr. Jaquelyn McCandless
<snip> "...in many autistic children, bacterial and fungal overgrowths are etiologically significant in the cascade of events that result in autism or one of the other autism spectrum disorders."
There is also the GAPS diet.

[msanthrope]

101. Sweet non-existent Jeebus......what a load of shite.

Do you really think diet cures autism?

Is there a single, peer reviewed study in a respectable journal that supports any of this?

Or just testimonials from the same people who sell the supplements you are supposed to take?

[Odin2005]

63. KIRBY IS A FUCKING FRAUD. I AM NOT A "NATIONAL CRISIS"

There is no Epidemic. It is fucking MASS HYSTERIA pushed on FRAUDS like Kirby and McCarthy and bigoted pro-cure organizations like Autism Speaks.

Autistic traits are genetic, that is a FACT. I am not "poisoned", I am not a "tragedy", I do not need a fucking "cure", so all you anti-vax nuts and pro-cure BIGOTS can go STFU!

[Orrex]

68. Maybe you are, and you just don't know it?

Everybody run for the hills! Hide in your basements! A fiendish Odin2005 is rampaging across the countryside!

Protect yourselves before it's too late!!!!!1!

[Odin2005]

71. Well many of us on the spectrum are getting pissed off at being called "broken" and "brain damaged".

I call people that think I am a "problem" and should not exist what they are, BIGOTS.

[Orrex]

73. You're absolutely right, of course, but...

that's not as funny to me as an image of you stomping on buildings and breathing radioactive fire all over everything.


You're in the comparatively rare position of standing on the front lines against people eager to tell you that you're defective. Frankly, I don't think that I could display the same patience and restraint as you. I'd go on a rampage.

[earth mom]

80. Get a fucking clue. NO ONE is talking about you or your situation.

:eyes:

[KamaAina]

78. And the nefarious KamaAina is right behind him!

:scared: :scared: :scared:

Turns out quite a few of us who you have thought of as quiet, (usually) well-behaved DUers are in fact EVIL AUTISM MONSTERS!!111!!11!!

:sarcasm:

[Orrex]

79. Oh god! I think I PMed you once!

Does that mean that I'm going to catch teh autisms???

[KamaAina]

82. I couldn't find it. Looks like you're safe as a neurotypical for now.

But you might want to be careful how many times you click on this thread. :P

edit: header

[Odin2005]

106. LOL!

:hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

84. It is interesting

I'm not autistic, and have no family incidence (that I know of). But a few friends have helped me to look at this in a different light - at least where autism doesn't severely limit a person's life. It's a little unnerving that being different is always something that needs curing.

[Odin2005]

107. Interesting fact: 2/3 of the livestock-handling facilities were designed by an autistic woman.

Professor of animal behavior Temple Grandin.

I fear that instead of helping their autistic kids to function in a neurotypical world like Grandin's mother did, the quackery and lies being shilled to many parents and relatives of "low functioning" autistics will damage these kids out of deluded notions that they can be "cured" and made neurotypical.

[Chemisse]

128. Perhaps you should not take all this so personally

They are not all talking about you.

And frankly it IS a tragedy when a healthy child cannot speak or control their behaviors or interact with other people, and cannot ever dream of a normal life.

[TeeYiYi]

64. Relevant article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from 2005...

Deadly Immunity

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal

In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Georgia. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session -- only private invitations to fifty-two attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal -- appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

<snip>

The story of how government health agencies colluded with Big Pharma to hide the risks of thimerosal from the public is a chilling case study of institutional arrogance, power and greed. I was drawn into the controversy only reluctantly. As an attorney and environmentalist who has spent years working on issues of mercury toxicity, I frequently met mothers of autistic children who were absolutely convinced that their kids had been injured by vaccines. Privately, I was skeptical.

I doubted that autism could be blamed on a single source, and I certainly understood the government's need to reassure parents that vaccinations are safe; the eradication of deadly childhood diseases depends on it. I tended to agree with skeptics like Rep. Henry Waxman, a Democrat from California, who criticized his colleagues on the House Government Reform Committee for leaping to conclusions about autism and vaccinations. "Why should we scare people about immunization," Waxman pointed out at one hearing, "until we know the facts?"

It was only after reading the Simpsonwood transcripts, studying the leading scientific research and talking with many of the nation's pre-eminent authorities on mercury that I became convinced that the link between thimerosal and the epidemic of childhood neurological disorders is real....

More at http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/?commentPage=2#rate

TYY

[Odin2005]

66. Sad that RFK jr. has fallen for this hysterical BS.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

74. Thimoseral has mercury in it. You think we should EVER ingest mercury?

The EPA has already said Hg is more toxic than lead, cadmium and anything else that is non-radioactive.

Not good enough for you?

[Odin2005]

76. And it's been proven to be harmless in that form.

Chlorine is a toxic gas, but it's perfectly harmless when its in the form of sodium chloride.

[Junkdrawer]

102. Harmless?????

The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. There are some data and studies bearing directly on thimerosal toxicity and these are summarized in this Section.

...


http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228#tox

[Confusious]

111. Yea well, have to much vitamin C

and you crap your brains out. Have to much of certain vitamins, your liver fails.

"There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury"

Basically, they are saying there is no data on the toxicity. Probably because no one worried about it, since its been around since the late 1920's. It's just the anti-vacc crowd that have got their panties in a bind.

"Magos concluded that ethylmercury, the mercury derivative found in thimerosal, is less neurotoxic than methylmercury, the mercury derivative for which the various guidelines are based."

"Blood levels of mercury did not exceed safety guidelines for methyl mercury for all infants in these studies. Further, mercury was cleared from the blood in infants exposed to thimerosal faster than would be predicted for methyl mercury; infants excreted significant amounts of mercury in stool after thimerosal exposure, thus removing mercury from their bodies"

Didn't read the article either did you? Or you did and thought we wouldn't check.


PH34R!!!!!!!!!

Bla bla bla, cut & paste.

[Junkdrawer]

114. Oh, I see.. Mostly Harmless....

Got it, chief.

[Confusious]

118. No, I don't think you do

thermisol hasn't been used in vaccines since 1999.

I have a friend whose daughter is 5 years old, and she has *GASP* autism.

That means she was born in 2004, *AFTER* they stopped using thermisol. *GASP**GASP**GASP*

So, basically your expending massive amounts of energy to demonize something that has *NOTHING* to do with the cause,
when you could be looking for the real problem.

[Chemisse]

130. But what if a baby inherits a defect in which he or she cannot

remove the mercury from its little body?

[Confusious]

142. What the child has no liver?

What defect would that be?

If I speculated about everything that could happen to me if I stepped outside, I'd never go anywhere.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

146. Metallothionein.... look it up.

[Confusious]

147. Yes, and there is no disease

where a person is missing those proteins. If they did, it would probably never even get a start, because they could not handle zinc, copper, selenium which the body needs.

So again, what disease would that be?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

148. Confuzious doesn't know what that disease would be.... it would

be a disease characterized by a damaged nervous system. You most certainly should have been able to find this on your own, again, do I need to spell it out for you??


Crit Rev Eukaryot Gene Expr. 2009;19(4):301-17.
Human metallothionein expression under normal and pathological conditions: mechanisms of gene regulation based on in silico promoter analysis.

Laukens D, Waeytens A, De Bleser P, Cuvelier C, De Vos M.

Department of Gastroenterology, Ghent University,Gent, Belgium. [e-mail]

Metallothioneins (MTs) are ubiquitous metal-binding proteins that have been highly conserved throughout evolution. Although their physiological function is not completely understood, they are involved in diverse processes including metal homeostasis and detoxification, the oxidative stress response, inflammation, and cell proliferation.

The human MT gene family consists of at least 18 isoforms, containing pseudogenes as well as genes encoding functional proteins. Most of the MT isoforms can be induced by a wide variety of substances, such as metals, cytokines, and hormones. Different cell types express discrete MT isoforms, which reflects the specifically adapted functions of MTs and a divergence in their regulation.

The aberrant expression of MTs has been described in a number of diseases, including Crohn's disease, cancer, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Menkes disease, and Wilson's disease. Therefore, a thorough understanding of MT gene regulation is imperative. To date, the transcriptional regulation of MTs has primarily been studied in mice.

While only four murine MT isoforms exist, the homology between murine and human MTs allows for the evaluation of the regulatory regions in their respective promoters. Here, we review the aberrant expression of MTs in human diseases and the mechanisms that regulate MT1 expression based on an in silico evaluation of transcription factor binding sites.

PMID: 19817707

[trotsky]

149. However the wiki for metallothionein says...

...However, MT dysfunction has not specifically been linked to autistic spectrum disorders. A 2006 study, investigating children exposed to the ethylmercury vaccine preservative thiomersal, found that levels of MT and antibodies to MT in autistic children did not differ significantly from normal children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallothionein

Keep grasping. Keep wasting time, effort, and funding dollars disproving something that isn't even in the routine immunizations anymore - yet autism continues.

[Confusious]

150. We weren't talking about a disease with a damaged nervous system

we were talking about a disease ( I include genetic defects under that ) where a baby couldn't remove Mercury from its system. None of those describes that type of disease. If you have one, I would like to see it.

Otherwise, you're off on your own tangent.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

151. Open your eyes or keep them closed.... makes little difference.

The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio as a biomarker in children with autism spectrum disorders.

Faber S, Zinn GM, Kern JC 2nd, Kingston HM.

The Children's Institute, 1405 Shady Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15217, USA. [e-mail]

The frequency of zinc deficiency, copper toxicity and low zinc/copper in children with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) may indicate decrement in metallothionein system functioning. A retrospective review of plasma zinc, serum copper and zinc/copper was performed on data from 230 children with autistic disorder, pervasive developmental disorder-NOS and Asperger's syndrome. The entire cohort's mean zinc level was 77.2 microg dl(-1), mean copper level was 131.5 microg dl(-1), and mean Zn/Cu was 0.608, which was below the 0.7 cut-off of the lowest 2.5% of healthy children. The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio may be a biomarker of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxicity in children with ASDs.

PMID: 19280374

[Confusious]

152. So a person with autism has low zinc/ copper ratio

Still has nothing to do with thermisol in vaccines, and removing that thermisol from their system, which IS not free mercury, it is ethyl mercury, which has completely different properties then mercury, I might add.

"The plasma zinc/serum copper ratio may be a biomarker of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxicity in children with ASDs."

And where do you get so much mercury that it causes these problems? From the mother, who probably took enough in to damage the baby somehow. And where did she get it? from the power plants burning coal and dumping it into the environment. *NOT* from vaccines which is what this entire thread is about.

It *STILL* does not mean that the child can't remove free mercury from it's system. It means it was hurt by mercury inutero somehow.

Thanks for the info, but you're still off on a tangent.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

153. All I am saying is that some persons accumulate toxins and heavy metals while others

slough them off. Some have "illnesses/disorders" others do not. There is a connection to the environment we have created, there is no doubt about that.

[Chemisse]

129. The nervous system is very sensitive to ALL forms of mercury.

"Exposure to high levels of ANY types of mercury can permanently damage the brain, kidneys, and developing foetus. Effects on brain functions may result in irritability, shyness, tremors, changes in vision or hearing and memory problems. High exposures of mercury vapour may cause chest pain, shortness of breath, and a build up of fluids in the lungs (pulmonary oedema) that can be fatal."

"Mercury and mercury containing products will enter the body if we breathe in contaminated air, drink contaminated water, eat contaminated food, or have our skin come into contact with it. Mercury may be absorbed through the skin. Mercury released into the environment is converted into methyl mercury by bacteria. The methyl mercury will then build up in the tissues of fish and shellfish. Humans (and other animals) may also be poisoned by eating these fish or shellfish."

http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/53.html

[Confusious]

95. Thermisol has no free mercury in it.

Are you afraid of sodium?

If you put a large piece of it in your mouth, it would blow your head off.

You eat sodium when you eat salt.

Shouldn't we talk about the dangers of you blowing your head off when you eat salt?

No. Because when you eat salt, it also has chlorine. completely different effect.

[sudopod]

97. Carbon dioxide has carbon monoxide in it.

Should we inhale it?

[SidDithers]

133. No, that's not good enough...

you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Sid

[Confusious]

94. Why is he talking about mercury toxicity?

thimerosal is a compound, and has no free mercury in it.

Do we talk about the fact that sodium could blow your head off if you put a piece of it in your mouth when we talk about salt?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

98. All those fillings leak mercury fumes, in spite of what the ADA says..

I wouldn't have anything to do with ANY mercury, bound chemically or unbound.

[Odin2005]

108. Your scientific ignorance is showing.

[Confusious]

112. Lets talk about the dangers of salt

it has *SODIUM*

"Sodium reacts exothermically with water: small pea-sized pieces will bounce across the surface of the water until they are consumed by it, whereas large pieces will explode."

You could *DIE*


PH34R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Chemisse]

132. That would only be a problem if NaCl (salt) was likely to dissociate

and form the pure element. But it doesn't. The Na and the Cl are strongly attracted each other, so you have nothing to worry about.

But organic mercury compounds are more readily broken apart into their components. The covalent bonds holding them together are weaker than the ionic bonds holding salt together.

[Confusious]

140. and a link to this is where?

Covalent bonds are almost always stronger then ionic.

When you put salt in water it dissolves into Sodium and chlorine, breaking the bond.

The entire point of my post was sarcasm also, in case you missed it.

I thought it was obvious.

[Chemisse]

131. It does not need to be pure mercury to hurt you

"Compounds of mercury tend to be much more toxic than the element itself, and organic compounds of mercury are often extremely toxic and have been implicated in causing brain and liver damage. The most dangerous mercury compound, dimethylmercury, is so toxic that even a few microliters spilled on the skin, or even a latex glove, can cause death.<23><24>" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning


Ethyl mercury differs from methyl mercury by only one carbon and 3 hydrogens. It is very similar, which is probably why they feel they can make somewhat of an assumption on the risk of this compound.

[Confusious]

141. Yes, but suprisingly

ethyl mercury does not act the same as methyl mercury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylmercury

[chatnoir]

116. Bookmarked to read later

Thanks for the link. Compelling stuff.

[Book Lover]

86. And yet a census of autistic adults shows no epidemic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=250x3830

Please, if you want to help those affected by this condition and their families/friends, use your energy writing letters for more special ed funding and more stringent requirements for schools to offer and insurance companies to pay for ABA therapies. Work for funding group homes for when these kids graduate from school. Support businesses that hire autistic people. *These* are the things that matter.

[Odin2005]

110. Yep!

:hi:

[TheWraith]

93. Actually, there's NO scientific evidence of a real rise in autism cases.

What's happening is that more kids are being diagnosed as autistic who in the bad old days would have been considered mentally ill, stupid, or developmentally disabled.

[Hekate]

113. "For Kirby, the parallel rise in environmental pollution and autism rates are related"

I think he's right. We have poisoned our own children and the results are tragic beyond belief. :cry:

Hekate

[Bombero1956]

115. you know what?

My grandson is autistic and I really don't give a rat's ass how it happened. I just want this to stop and I want him to lead a normal a life as possible.

[Jennicut]

117. There have been many studies on the relationship between toxins and auto immune diseases.

I think there is some kind of relationship there. I wonder about it often having diabetes.

Vaccines prevent me and my asthmatic daughter from getting the seasonal flu. There are many positive things about vaccines. If there is a real issue there it should be investigated but honestly investigated without fear mongering.

[uppityperson]

124. Autism DIAGNOSES spikes. eom

[tova]

138. autism

I know most of you seem to think that autism has nothing to do with shots or environment and is genetic. Like many I can only speak from personal experience. My 6 year old son is high functioning autistic. He had gastroentestinal problems since birth. He was throwing up his first 3 days at the hospital and projectile vomiting at home. He also had full body rashes. He was on various meds for reflux almost starting from the time he came home. Despite his gastro. problems he was a sweet tempered baby. At 18 months I took him in for an exam and he had his MMR and DTP shots. He had a fever that night and an immediate temperment change. His personality became angry and explosive. He has been seen by numerous neurologists and a pediatric geneticist (Dr. David Feingold). Every possible genetic test has been done and they have all come back negative. One of his neurologists, Dr. Scott Faber, believes that the increase in autism is being caused by invironmental polutants. Like most parents I just want the best for my son and I have spent countless hours trying to figure out what I might have done to have caused this. I know that some have already said that those who try to fix autism are little more then bigots who look down our noses at those who are different. My son is wonderful and very smart. I do not think that he is feeling so lucky when he is having one of his explosive and violent outbursts.