SSRI drugs and violence VIDEO

[Th1onein]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S-7aNPf33A

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, these drugs can be held to account for the increase in mass murder in the past few years.

And, no, not ALL people take SSRI drugs and go out and commit a violent act. And, yes, SSRI drugs help a lot of people. But they are dangerous. And if we are to give them to people, then we need to find the link between violent behavior and these drugs' actions in the brain.

[UndertheOcean]

1. SSRIs saved my life , just stating this fact before watching the video

[Th1onein]

10. That's wonderful, Undertheocean, and they DO help many people....

but there is something wrong with a drug when it's wide dispensation causes an increase in mass murder. It puts us all at risk.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Cymbalta destabilized my undiagnosed bipolar condition. It would not

surprise me if this has happened other people and possibly caused them to act violently or dangerously.

[UndertheOcean]

3. Bingo ! Maybe it is the prescribing of SSRI's to Bipolar patients that is causing those outbursts

SSRI's will cause mania episodes most of the time if you are bipolar.

[Liberation Angel]

71. SSRI's can induce mania and bipolar-type episodes

It is a known side effect of SSRI's and not just in socalled bipolar people.

[sendero]

19. Folks with bipolar disorder..

... should never take SSRIs and if a doctor KNEW you were bipolar and prescribed them anyway, get another doctor quick.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. The Cymbalta reacion is how I was finally diagnosed correctly, but it was a hell of a way to do it.

[sendero]

42. My family doctor..

... laughed at me when I told him I had an immediate reaction to Paxil.

I'm not sure general practitioners should be prescribing stuff like SSRIs at all.

[lumpy]

76. In general family doctors don't know shit about pharmacueticals

and perhaps less about diagnosing anything more than a pregnacy or a broken arm (and even then will send you to a specialist with a broken arm).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Who misdiagnosed you?

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. Family doctors and 2 psychiatrists missed it because I am bipolar 2 and back

in the day they didn't look at it as a spectrum. I twas just black and white. Either you get so manic you have to be hospitalized or you are not bipolar. (Although I guessed on my own in college that it was what I probably had, despite that head doc saying it couldn't be that at all. :eyes:)

The family doc gave me the Cymbalta after Prozac seemed to do nothing for my latest deep depression. (My mom had died a couple of years before.) Once I got my head together enough to realize it was probably the Cymbalta that was screwing me up she decided that she was dealing with something other than depression alone and referred me to a psychiatrist, who luckily knew bipolar 2 when it blew into his office. :) (Of course the bugger is that just because you know what you have doesn't mean you can do much for it. Meds are a safety net but that seems to be about all they can do.)

[lumpy]

77. Curious. Had you tried Lithium ?

v

[bobbolink]

40. That must have been frightening.

:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. It sure was. It set me on a perfect 8 day cycle. Over the course of 6 weeks my family and I

could have told you that Sundays were the screaming days and Tuesdays were the crying days, but that Wednesdays were verrry happy. What a mess. I wouldn't wish mental illness on my worst enemy. :hug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. What increase in mass murder?

[Brickbat]

6. +1.

My response is lazy, but I can't do better than that right now.

[Th1onein]

8. Look it up. I already posted this information in a previous post on this topic weeks ago.

There IS an uptick in mass murders. I believe that it can be attributed to the increase in the use of SSRI drugs.

On edit: I did it for you--

Experts Explore Rise in Mass Murder
By FOX BUTTERFIELD,
Published: Saturday, October 19, 1991

The killing of 22 people at a Texas cafeteria Wednesday is only the latest incident showing a rapid increase in mass murder in the past decade, both in frequency and in the number of victims murdered in individual attacks.

LINK: http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/19/us/experts-explore-rise-in-mass-murder.html

This story from ABC News:

A brutal shooting spree in Alabama. A mass slaying in a nursing home on a Sunday morning. A bloody rampage at an immigration center.
As the public struggles to uncover the reasons behind the eight seemingly senseless mass murders so far this year, many researchers are working to determine whether this apparent surge in violence indicates a larger trend, and whether to expect more in the months to come.

LINK: http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/u-s-politics-issues/100618-8-counting-mass-murders-2009-a.html

The above are just a couple of articles about the increase in mass murder. You can, I'm sure, with a little effort, find more, all by yourself.

[mattvermont]

13. For christ's sake

what with all the societal and cultural issues we have, you have decided to hang your hat on SSRI's??

I am not interested in anecdotes.

[Th1onein]

15. If studies are not funded on this, the only evidence we will EVER have will be anecdotal.

After all, what drug company is willing to do this kind of study on their own products? Eli Lilly refused to do a correlational study on how many of the early Prozac users were still alive! This is one of the easiest numbers to come up with. Why would they refuse?

These drugs are dangerous. They are not just dangerous to those who take them, but to those of us who live and work with those who take them.

I "hang my hat" on SSRIs because they are doing a lot of harm. And many people don't know about this danger.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Anecdotal isn't evidence.

Oh, and if imagining conspiracy theories is not a good argument for forwarding a hypothesis on criminal psychology.

[Th1onein]

18. Anecdotal evidence IS evidence. It is not STRONG evidence.

But, enough of even anecdotal evidence and you have a link that you need to explore. I think that it is time to explore the link between violent behavior and these SSRI drugs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Um, no. It's not.

I think you need to put down the E-meter.

[Th1onein]

22. No personal attacks, please.

Instead of closing your mind and rudely insinuating that I am playing with a toy, instead of facts (what the hell is an "E-meter" anyway?), go to this site, access the stories. Below is an example of the headings of news stories where a judge or a jury found enough "evidence" to ascribe these violent acts to these SSRI drugs that the perpetrators were taking:

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

Murder Attempt Wellbutrin* 2006-02-12 Washington *82 Year Old Man Found Not Guilty: Med Defense
Air Rage Paxil* 2006-01-25 England *Diplomat Cleared of Drinking Charges: Drug Blamed
Murder-Suicide Paxil* 2001-08-09 Wyoming *Jury Finds Paxil Was Cause of Murder-Suicide
Shooting Antidepressant* 2005-03-05 Florida *Man Acquitted in Gas Station Shooting: Involuntary Intoxication by Med
Robbery/Armed Paxil WITHDRAWAL* 2003-08-10 England *Man Cleared of Charges by Using Paxil Defense
Assault Prozac* 2009-10-24 Kansas *Man Found Not Guilty of Assault Using Prozac Defense
Murder Zoloft* 2001-05-24 Australia *Man Found Not Guilty Using Zoloft Defense
Murder Attempt Zoloft* 2004-04-24 California *Man Found Not Guilty: Used Zoloft Defense
Murder Attempt-Suicide Attempt Effexor & Paxil* 2003-06-17 Australia *Mother Acquitted by Using SSRI Defense
Murder Attempt Antidepressants* 2002-11-04 Arizona *Mother Acquitted of Attempted Child Murder
Murder Paxil & ADHD Drug* 2000-05-18 Washington *Mother Stabs Daughter: Not Guilty by Reason of Drug Induced Insanity
Murder Attempt Prozac 2008-05-20 Connecticut *Not Guilty Because of Psychosis Brought On by Prozac & Adderall
Murder Cymbalta Antidepressant 2007-05-15 Texas *Not Guilty by Reason of Cymbalta Induced Insanity: Man Kills Wife
Embezzlement/Bizarre Behavior Paxil* 2006-11-17 Florida *Not Guilty by Reason of Paxil Induced Insanity
Bank Robbery Prozac* 2002-11-16 Connecticut *Not Guilty by Reason of Prozac Induced Insanity
Murder Prozac* 2003-07-11 Louisiana *Not Guilty by Reason of Prozac Induced Insanity: Mother Kills Daughter
Violence Prozac* 2000-06-30 England *Woman Acquitted in Stabbing Incident
Stabbing Prozac 1998-10-13 Scotland *Woman Stabs Boyfriend: Used Prozac Defense: Placed

Were you aware that Andrea Yates was on these drugs, and had just had her dosage adjusted the day before she killed her children? And how about those Columbine boys? Did you know that they were on SSRIs? And the Virginia Tech murderer? Yep.

[Forkboy]

That's a lot of stories but no science.

I clicked on 23 stories and not one had any evidence that the SSRI's were the cause of these. It's all anecdotal without any scientific evidence at. it's an impressive looking list, but it's all just what people think caused it, with no scientific data to support it. :shrug:

Were you aware that Andrea Yates was on these drugs, and had just had her dosage adjusted the day before she killed her children? And how about those Columbine boys? Did you know that they were on SSRIs? And the Virginia Tech murderer? Yep.

So there should be plenty of scientific data to support the idea that the reason these three incidents happened is because of these drugs.

[Th1onein]

37. I'm sure the drug companies said the same thing about thalidomide and birth defects.

It was licensed in the 50's. As a result, more than 10,000 children were born in 46 countries with deformities. Obstetrician William McBride and pediatrician Widukind Lenz suspected a link between birth defects and the drug, and this was proven by Lenz in 1961.

But it's all anecdotal, it's all anecdotal!

"In the spring of 1961, William McBride, an Australian physician, attended the births of three children born with phocomelia, a rare birth defect.

After an extended weekend of looking over patients' medical records, Dr. McBride came to the conclusion that thalidomide was the only associated common cause in all of these births. McBride called Distillers Ltd. and related his concerns. In Germany, Contergan was suspected as a cause of malformations as early as in 1958, but it was not until 1961 that Widukind Lenz was able to establish the use of thalidomide by pregnant women as the cause....

Dr. Widukind Lenz:

"I had suspected thalidomide to be the cause of an outbreak of limb and ear malformation in Western Germany for the first time on November 11, 1961, and by November 16, I felt sufficiently certain from continuing investigations to warn Chemie Gruenenthal by a phone call. It took ten more days of intensive discussions with representatives of the producer firm, of health authorities, and of experts before the drug was withdrawn, largely due to reports in the press. Dispute on the question, whether thalidomide did or did not cause malformations was going on for months, though independent confirmation of Dr. McBride's and my observations rapidly accumulated. Chemie Gruenenthal continued to deny the teratogenic effects of thalidomide for years, but there was a growing suspicion that this was not due to honest ignorance but to the purpose of weakening the accusations against the firm.
In some countries, e.g. Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Italy and Japan, thalidomide continued to be sold for several months (after withdrawal of the drug from West German and British markets). From an increasing number of well documented cases in which the mother had definitely taken thalidomide in early pregnancy it has become possible to delineate the spectrum of malformations attributable to the drug."

That bears repeating here: He "suspected" that, because there were an increasing number of well documented cases in which the mother had taken thalidomide in early pregnancy...that the malformations were attributable to the drug. Ring a bell?

There are an increasing number of well documented cases in which the perpetrators of mass murders have been on an SSRI drug. These facts, logically, lead one to believe that there is a LINK between these these drugs and these behaviors. It would be highly unethical to test this hypothesis in humans, but is there ANYONE doing studies in other primates? You think the pharmas, that makes billions off of these best sellers, that are marketed as making you "feel weller than well," are going to do these tests?

Are you REALLY trying to convince me, and others here, that these drugs, whcih have black box warnings on them, about suicide, aggression, and violence, in those that take them, had NOTHING to do with the actions of the mass murderers who were taking them?

Thank God Dr. Lenz didn't take that same view with thalidomide, or we'd still have doctors prescribing it to pregnant women.

[Forkboy]

43. Which doesn't change anything I said.

Are you REALLY trying to convince me, and others here, that these drugs, which have black box warnings on them, about suicide, aggression, and violence, in those that take them, had NOTHING to do with the actions of the mass murderers who were taking them?

The burden is on you to prove they did, not on me to prove they didn't. I don't know because it's all anecdotal evidence, including my own negative experience with them. But I have yet to see any causal evidence that directly ties the drugs with the actions. People who take these have issues to begin with. How do you know that the drugs caused it and not just their own predispositions? I can say that Paxil fucked me up, but that's not scientific fact. I can't say for sure that my depression got worse because of the Paxil, or if it was because I was just getting more and more depressed anyways. I don't feel the Paxil helped, but I can't prove it made things worse than they would have been if I hadn't been taking it. For all I know things may have been worse without it. :shrug:

[Th1onein]

45. Sorry, but when the package itself says it causes hostility, paranoid reactions, etc....

And the people who are taking it go out and kill people in masse, I think you got a link there, friend.

And, once again, it would be unethical to try to establish causality here. Unethical. So, your argument that there is no "causation" doesn't hold water.

[Forkboy]

46. Weak.

[HuckleB]

94. Incredibly weak.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chemisse]

67. It is unfortunate that all there is is anectodal

It would be helpful if there were studies. But there has to be a desire to study and funding to pay for it.

[superduperfarleft]

53. Paxil was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Then they recalled it (the CR, at least), and the shit I'm on now is about worthless.

[Confusious]

56. Paxil worked good for me

Except the sexual side effects. On zoloft now, works good too. Talk to your doc.

[Liberation Angel]

60. The dangers of Paxil

http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/paxil/dangers.html

"The potential side effects of taking Paxil are also a major concern surrounding the use of this drug. The dangers of Paxil side effects pose a threat to the physical and emotional well being of patients who take this medication. Dangers of Paxil side effects can include the development or worsening of emotional conditions, sexual dysfunction, aggression, agitation, anxiety, dizziness, drowsiness, gastrointestinal complications, and a variety of other concerns."

MUCH more at link

[Confusious]

90. You've taken it,

and been on it for a while, so you have first-hand experience, I hope?

I had no withdraw, I weaned off of it, if your smart, you can do that.

I didn't take too many, I took what the doctor and I agreed on.

It lifted me out of my living hell. Why do you want to put people back there?

Or is it just some knee-jerk reaction?

[lumpy]

78. There are many many anecdotal cases of misuse of SSRI

that have been the cause of suicide as well as violence acts. It is risky business when GP's prescribe these meds, many times trying different SSRIs to find the one that works. Believe me.

[Confusious]

30. I think the devil is doing it

there is anecdotal evidence.

And that the sun comes up because of a big jack under it.

there is anecdotal evidence.

And that monkeys can fly.

there is anecdotal evidence.

[Chemisse]

66. Is there evidence that these mass killers were even taking SSRIs? - nt

[Th1onein]

74. Yes, Chemisse.

Yes, there is not only evidence that these mass murderers were on these drugs, but that has been proven now.

Here's a list:

Steve Kazmierczak - NIU shooting killed five and then himself - Prozac

Jeffrey Weise - MN school shooting; ten dead - Prozac

Eric Harris - Columbine school shooting - Luvox and Zoloft

Seung-Hui Cho - Virginia Tech shooting; 33 dead - unknown SSRI

Andrea Yates - Drowned her five children - Effexor and Wellbutrin

The list is long. It includes Michael McDermott, the software engineer who went on a rampage in Wakefield, Massachusetts, killing seven; Byran Uyesugi, who shot eight of his colleagues in Hawaii (seven of them fatally); and Charles Carl Roberts IV, who assassinated five Amish school girls before shooting himself. All either on, or coming off of these types of drugs.

Remember the Atlanta day trader? SSRI meds.

When is enough enough?

[HuckleB]

93. Correlation is not causation.

What do you not understand about anecdotes, correlation, and the fact that people who take such medications are already dealing with mental illness. Perhaps mental illness is the culprit? Ever thought about that?

Here is evidence that another scientist thinks that psychiatric meds may be one reason why crime rates are actually down.

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2009/06/11/are-kids-safer-because-we-never-let-them-out-anymore/

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. The quote you just posted...

"many researchers are working to determine whether this apparent surge in violence indicates a larger trend, and whether to expect more in the months to come"

Suggests it's unknown if there is an increase in mass murders.

The link you post is from 1991. And it's quoting some nut who's blaming music lyrics and pornography.

Have you any evidence that the Alabama shooter was on SSRIs?

Do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?

[Th1onein]

23. Here you go.....

The FDA’s first advisory panel on Prozac met in 1992, it was already the record holder for adverse reaction reports at some 23,067. That included 1,436 suicide attempts and 1,313 deaths.

Is that good enough for you? The FDA's report? Back in 1992?

[Confusious]

31. That means one thing if you understand depression

Lots of shrinks will tell you, as soon as they start feeling better, they try to kill themselves. That's why hard cases must be monitored.

[Th1onein]

38. I understand that, Confusious, BUT

the criteria for depression is being expanded. And this means that more and more of these drugs are being prescribed for it, everyday.

NO ONE should have to worry about mass murder and suicide as a side effect of a drug. Any drug with these kinds of KNOWN side effects should be taken off of the market:

Manic Reaction (Mania, e.g., Kleptomania, Pyromania, Dipsomania)
Abnormal Thinking
Hallucinations
Personality Disorder
Amnesia
Agitation
Psychosis
Abnormal Dreams
Emotional Lability (Or Instability)
Alcohol Abuse and/or Craving
Hostility
Paranoid Reactions
Confusion
Delusions
Sleep Disorders
Akathisia (Severe Inner Restlessness)
Discontinuation (Withdrawal) Syndrome

[Confusious]

44. Ahh, I knew it

Well for your info, I take zoloft. I would rather die ( Which I probably would, by my own hand ) then go back to being the way I was.

All those side effects don't happen at the same time to the same person. Or to most people for that matter. Those are rare cases and should be seen as that. Do you read about these things? ( Besides the anti-SSRI sites ). And before you say it, allergies to penicillin are rare. I'm allergic to it. Should we take it off the market? I say no.

OH, look at the side effects of penicillin:

Black, hairy tongue; irritation of the mouth or throat; mild diarrhea; nausea; upset stomach; vomiting. Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); bloody stools or urine; fever, chills, or persistent sore throat; severe or persistent diarrhea; stomach pain or cramps; unusual bruising or bleeding; vaginal irritation or itching; worsening of skin lesions.

and another really common drug, and it's side effects:

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); black or bloody stools; confusion; diarrhea; dizziness; drowsiness; hearing loss; ringing in the ears; severe or persistent stomach pain; unusual bruising; vomiting.

Should we take it off the market?

"NO ONE should have to worry about mass murder and suicide"

Prove that mass murders are caused by SSRI's. How may are just copy cats? How many were there before 1987, when prozac came out? I would have probably committed suicide without the medication. I might have a few side effects (none on your list ), but It's the difference between night and day ( literally ) in my life.

I will fight to my last breath to keep from going into that hole again.

One more thing. You said it helped people, but now you want to ban it? Have you ever suffered through panic attacks that lasted 3 months, or depression that lasted years?

Do you *REALLY* have any clue? It doesn't sound like it from your posts.

[Odin2005]

48. Most of those are extremely rare.

Many of the rest are just temporary as the body adjusts to the change in serotonin levels

[superduperfarleft]

57. You do realize how side effect reporting works, right?

If, out of the entire study group, a single person has a headache, they have to report that as a side effect. And when you're dealing with psych drugs, your test group is going to inevitably have various psychiatric symptoms already present, regardless of the drug.


So, in conclusion, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you should stop peddling dangerous anti-med garbage.

[Th1onein]

75. I'm not concerned so much about their reports of side effects.

I'm concerned about the side effects that we are seeing in these people in their everyday lives, not during safety and efficacy testing. SSRI Stories has over three thousand incidents of violence archived from news stories. These drugs are known to cause hostility, violent behavior, and suicide in those that take them. Then, you've got an overwhelming number of incidences of violence in those who are taking them. At what point do you say that the two are connected?

And, by the way, I've alerted on you once, already, in this thread. Is there a way that you can tone down your rhetoric so as to not include personal attacks (ie., "you have no fucking idea what you're talking about")?

[Confusious]

89. You seemed concerned before

and posted a whole bunch of side effects. But now not so much. I see.

and I agree. you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. It's not a personal attack you see. It's my opinion, as someone who has taken the drugs.

[Th1onein]

26. See my post #25. Actual scientist who tracks these things.

He says there's been an increase in mass public shootings, alone. That's just one kind of mass murder.

[HuckleB]

82. +1

[HuckleB]

92. +1

[Odin2005]

5. maybe people with Bipolar II wrongly diagnosed with Depression?

It is very common for people with Bipolar II to be misdiagnosed with plain old Depression and be given SSRIs People with BiII generally get help because of their depressive episodes, they don't get the full blown mania, and so the cycling can be missed by psychs.

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. +1,000,000

[rollingrock]

7. That's why the FDA requires a suicide warning label on all SSRIs

they should probably add a homicide warning label as well. if these drugs can make you violent toward yourself, they can make you violent toward others. a large percentage of the high violent crime rate in this country could probably be linked to SSRI usage, since they are heavily prescribed and doctors pass them out almost like Halloween candy, as they have a high profit margin for the drug companies and nice kickbacks for the doctors.

[TexasObserver]

12. Recommend

[Confusious]

32. really

"a large percentage of the high violent crime rate in this country could probably be linked to SSRI usage"

And we never had violent crime before? Look up the black Delilah murder in the 1940's, or maybe john Dillinger in the 30's, or Al Capone.

[Euromutt]

69. Except the violent crime rate isn't increasing

In fact, the violent crime rate is dropped by more than 50% between 1991 and 2002, and has remained at around 2002 levels ever since (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm). It's roughly the same story for homicide; an almost 50% drop from 1991 to 2000, and fairly stable since then.

And the main reason SSRIs are prescribed so much is because it's what the insurance will pay for. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder last year, and my insurer (BCBS) would not cover my counseling, because it was way more expensive than antidepressants and less certain to yield results (even though, in my case, it was the counseling that helped me get on top of things). And SSRIs are actually quite cheap; a 30-day supply of generic sertraline costs about $6.

[superduperfarleft]

9. SSRIs help many people who would otherwise be disabled.

You should be fucking ashamed of yourself peddling this BS, especially based on nothing more than a fucking youtube clip from Fox News.

[Th1onein]

17. I never met a fact I didn't like. YOU might not like it, though.

You need to do some research into this topic before you counsel me to be ashamed of myself for bringing it up.

As I said in my original post, I am aware that these drugs help many people. I don't dispute that. But we need to be aware of the dangers of these drugs, as well. And they ARE dangerous.

Here's another video for ya:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k0Gq_yrZ_k

[superduperfarleft]

29. Great, another biased youtube video.

If I had a nickel for every time some woo-woo linked me to a youtube video as proof of their ridiculous assertion, I'd be a millionaire.

[Odin2005]

47. Fuck that shit. I haven't had a single panic attack since I started taking Paxil

used to have them constantly. Reduced my OCD behavior too.

[superduperfarleft]

55. Paxil is a bitch to get off, but it was truly a wonder drug while I was on it.

Life was never better than when I was one that. I thought they'd recalled it, though.

[lumpy]

79. I am sure you can handle the superduper jackass, but why

even reply to his/her uninformative puffery?

[Th1onein]

81. Because the buck stops here.

He can abuse, but not me.

[TexasObserver]

11. Recommend

[JackRiddler]

21. SSRIs may destabilize some people, but there hasn't been an increase in mass murder...

I presume you mean Columbine-type one-day murder rampages? Can you provide the numbers on those?

[Th1onein]

25. Increase in mass public shootings in the US

From 1900 to 1965, there were only 21 mass shootings in the US. From 1966 to 1999, there were 95.

I think I'd call that an increase.

[Codeine]

33. So you're blaming an "increase" that began in 1966

on a family of drugs that had its earliest release in 1982 and didn't see widespread use until the early 90s?

Yeeeeahhh.

[HuckleB]

83. +1

[Confusious]

34. Yes, and how many of those people see something on TV

And then emulate it? People who commit mass murders are usually attention whores. They want everyone to know they went out.

and for your info, Prozac, the first SSRI came out in Dec 1987, so what has been the number from 1900-1988, and 1988-1999?

[Euromutt]

70. I can produce Park Dietz saying something about that

This is from the first episode of Newswipe with Charlie Brooker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8IdK-T1Ew
From about the 5:40 mark, Brooker starts looking at coverage of the Winnenden shootings. The really good bit starts at about 7:30, when they show a clip of Park Dietz explaining the effect that media coverage, in the manner to which we've become accustomed, has. Money quote:

DIETZ: <...> because every time we have intense saturation coverage of a mass murder, we expect to see one or two more within a week.

There's probably a stronger correlation between the increase in mass public shootings and the advent and proliferation of dedicated 24-hour television news channels, starting with the launch of CNN in June 1980.

[trotsky]

68. I blame it on the space program.

I mean, as long as we're going for correlation = causation, that's just as good of a conclusion as yours.

[juno jones]

27. I know it's anecdotal

But I will add this. I know it is not an SSRI, but I had a nightmarish experience with xanax prescribed to me for depression. Two days of xanax and I had this sick and overpowering urge to harm my child. And kill myself. REALLY harm my child. And the fixation with death is something I never experienced in my deepest depressions. I'm lucky to be 'experienced'. I realized quickly that it was the drug that was doing it and sent my kid to my parents place for a week, until the stuff left my system.

I have depressive episodes, but I will never touch anti-depressants again. Nothing is worth that horror.

As long as I am relating anecdotes, I will tell a bit about the crazy rocket scientist who used to live next door to me. SSRI's were his drug of choice (he WAS nuts, they were scrip, but he knew the chemistry and was subtly abusing them by using them in an unintended combo) and he would go manic about once a week and threaten to kill his wife. The poor woman showed up on our doorstep once in nothing but a bra and panties. In Lake Tahoe. Snow, we're talking 5 above zero here. When he wasn't taking them he seemed a little strange, but no weirder than many geeks I've known, but get him on the SSRI's and he was nuts. I've read 'Tallking Back to Prozac' and many of the cocaine-like effects he used to describe jibe with the chemistry related in that book and others.

All anecdotal, caveat emptor.

[bobbolink]

50. That had to be really awful for you. I'm glad you came out of it OK, and

recognized what the problem was.

Can you imagine those who are FORCED to take this stuff, and have no choice, even if they have that kind of frightening experience?

~~shudder~~

[Confusious]

28. More crank bullshit

"we need to find the link between violent behavior and these drugs' actions in the brain"

We need to find it? and what if it's not there? will you believe it? What about all the mass murders *BEFORE* SSRI's? I seem to remember quite a few before them.

I've also never heard of people taking a mix of SSRI's. The doctors themselves should be held responsible if they are doping these kids up, and the parents, who want a quick fix. They are over prescribed, but ultimately, it comes down to the doctor and parent.

[lumpy]

80. A lot of the fault lies with the general practitioner who

prescribes these drugs with little knowledge of mental disorders as well as pharmaceudicals. An honest physician would send such patients to a specialist. This is a case of patient be aware.

[DireStrike]

35. SSRIs may lift certain depression symptoms first and enable people to act on their darkest fantasies

By weakening the disabling effect of depression, there will be some percentage of people who were just on the line of being able to act, who are pushed over the edge. If they do not have adequate support (family, friends, therapy), bad things can happen.

This is a danger of treatment, but it's far from an indictment of SSRIs.

If you want to blame something, you could just as well blame the deterioration of the extended family, or the community, or social ties in general.

[Liberation Angel]

72. Actually, the Doctor in the video has done much work on this

I recommend folks look at his work (I have linked some below).

Societal issues play a HUGE role in depression and need to be addressed in any treatment. Just popping a pill does not resolve the underlying causes and can worsen them.

[Liberation Angel]

36. SSRI's WILL F*** you up! (Link to Peer reviewed studies)

Having lived through the SSRI experience with a close family member I can say without equivocation that SSRI's MAY make depression temporarily less painful BUT the side effects can ruin your life and the lives of all those around you: spouses, loved ones, children, etc. It changes people - often for the worse.

That is NOT to say that there may be instances where it seems to help some people. But since alternative treatments NOT tried (cognitive behavioral. nutrition, natural healing, and misdiagnosed/undiagnosed hypothyroid disorder) will make it unknown if SSRI's actually worked where nothing else would --- and whether those who FEEL less depressed or in less depression pain are changing in other negative ways ---- it may NOT be that SSRI's actually SAVE people. It might help in the short term but may be far more harmful in the long run.

This is a difficult subject as, with many drugs, people become dependent and/or addicted to them (the withdrawal is horrific and can cause serious problems including violent ideation) so that those who are dependent on them or who used them feel it is essential to defend their use.

Again, i do not assert that SSRI's may not help in SOME situations - but it is impossible to really know if it does anything more than mask symptoms and exacerbate the underlying problems. That was what occurred in a close family member and it shattered the family. Things became much much worse.


I will simply let the research speak for itself at this point and urge those who have not used SSRI's to try at all costs to avoid them unless you have no viable medical alternative whatsoever.



"Suicidality, violence and mania caused by selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs): A review and analysis
http://www.breggin.com/31-49.pdf



Read the research and notes and make an informed decision. For those already addicted to SSRI's, look for help in getting off them safely and with as little pain as possible. Unfortunately, some side effects may be permanent, but there are ameliorative healing which you can engage in.

Many many people are falsely labeled as bipolar or diagnosed as clinically depressed and prescribed SSRI's for depression when, in fact, they have thyroid damage from environmental toxins such as toxic radiation/chemicals from industrial pollution/proliferation which CAUSES the feelings of depression and manic feelings/thoughts due to interference with one's brain chemistry.

[Confusious]

49. Yea, and other people have no thyroid problems

and are still depressed. I got tested, no problems

SSRI's are not addicting. I can stop, but I would rather keep living.

"(cognitive behavioral. nutrition, natural healing, and misdiagnosed/undiagnosed hypothyroid disorder)"

I had a friend whose boss tried "natural Healing" for his bipolar disorder. I asked her if it helped. A big fat "NO!".

Tried st. johns wort. Up-down-Up-down. That was 1 hour. Just wasn't powerful enough.

How long have I been on them? 12 years. 12 wonderful, fun, colorful years.

I looked up the doctor who made that paper you linked to:

"He uses terms like "fraud" to describe the biological and genetic theories of mental disorders."

"In 1994, the president of the American Psychiatric Association called Breggin a "flat-earther" (suggesting he embraced outdated theories); the head of the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) called Breggin "ignorant"; and the former head of the National Institute of Mental Health called him an "outlaw.""

"Breggin reinforces the myth that mental illness is not real, that you wouldn't be ill if you'd pull yourself up by the bootstraps...his views stop people from getting treatment. They could cost a life."

That one *REALLY* galls me.

Here's another lovely one:

According to an article in Forbes, Breggin has also expressed some controversial views that he later rejected, such as that "it can be okay for children to have sexual relationships, <...> and that the vast majority of women have been sexually abused in childhood".<30> Similarly, Steven Milloy strongly criticized Breggin for making the following statement in his book The Psychology of Freedom: "permitting children to have sex among themselves would go a long way toward liberating them from oppressive parental authority. This is the main reason that parents fight so hard to prevent sex between children. Sexual freedom would allow their children to become truly independent of them."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

[Liberation Angel]

65. Thyroid blood tests often fail and depression is misdiagnosedinstead of hypothyroidism

you might have been misdiagnosed.


"The biggest problem about thethyroid epidemic is that we aremissing the diagnosis. Frequentlythe routine blood test fails to detect an under-active thyroid. Routinethyroid blood testing, including TSH, T3, T4 is just not sensitiveenough to detect the complex problem of low thyroid.Since doctors are not picking up hypothyroidism as the cause of somany underlying problems patients are instead put on numerous med-ications to treat their symptoms. For example, an untold number ofpeople with high cholesterol also have a low thyroid, which is thecause of the high cholesterol, but doctors frequently fail to see this andinstead prescribe cholesterol medications. Millions of people who suf-fer from depression have a low thyroid as the cause of their problembut doctors that rely on the routine blood testing miss the diagnosis andtreat their patients instead with antidepressants, again treating thesymptom and not the cause"


http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:WaQlMCImTg4J:www.newlifemag.com/pdfs/19_2.pdf+thyroid+%22blood+test+fails%22&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

[Confusious]

85. Yes, I'm going to trust a website trying

To sell me soy cures.

I'm sure there's peer-reviewed articles somewhere on there, isn't there?

[superduperfarleft]

54. Please ignore the above post.

To anyone reading this, please do not consider getting off psych drugs because of some bullshit you read on the internet. Thank you.

[Liberation Angel]

59. Yeah - never trust anything you read on the internet

including this advice saying disregard my post

or info on studies showing the dangers of SSRI's

or any opinion here on anything...

seriously though

do your research

You MIGHT be able to get the help you really need instaed of an addiction to a drug that ultimately may harm you more than whatever you are taking it for.

Read the materials, the research and keep an open mind.

That is all I am saying.

I honestly believe these drugs do much more harm than good overall.

That does NOT mean that they may not help some people more than they hurt.

But trusting big pharma is crazy

and swallowing their bullshyte whole hog is ill advised

[Confusious]

86. From someone who has probably never had a panic attack

Much less one that lasted three months. Or depression that lasted years, or obsessive compulsive disorder, and tries to tell *ME* that I don't need them, or that they are dangerous.

"you have a thyroid condition". I grew up in Alaska, no radiation there. I weigh 180 pounds, been thin most of my life. Under active thyroid you usually put on weight.

The tests don't work, don't trust you doctor. Who should I trust a freaking Homeopath who's going to suck me dry and never even give me hope of fixing my problems? Or you? Do you have any sort of degree in medicine?

I'm take the meds, that you very much.

[HuckleB]

84. One study by Breggin.

And ignore the full spectrum of research on the matter.

It is ludicrous.

[HughMoran]

41. SSRI's saved my ass as well

I do agree that people should be monitored closely during the critical period when the effect starts to overcome the depression. I had a few hour period where I suddenly felt angry but suddenly strong. Close monitoring is the answer and I don't think my PCP should have been the one to prescribe these to me - in spite of the very low percent of people who actually act out when they start to feel better/more energetic.

[snagglepuss]

51. Read "Before You Take This Pill" by Dr Doug Bremner, Professor of Psychiatry and Radiology

at the Emory University School of Medicine and Atlanta VA Medical Center. He does research and lectures on posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression and drug safety with an active scientific career and history of training that has been funded by the NIH, VA, and foundations.



He very skeptical about meds, believes their over-prescribed and dangerous.



http://www.dougbremner.com/index.html

[Liberation Angel]

58. Dr Breggin's resume and bio (pretty impressive)

http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=127


Look, I am not a doctor of medicine (although I have a doctorate)

so I am not saying anything other than that people should do their research and look at what SOME doctors are saying. Be informed.

My own experience has been a terrible one with a loved one on SSRI's.

As for thyroid problems they are often misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all because of problems with the testing which most doctors are not aware of.

Mary Shomon's website touches on these issues. Blood tests are often faulty or misunderstood so that diagnosis/assessment could be wrong.

Natural remedies go way beyond st johnswort --- but people should look into them as one alternative.

The thing is that there ARE alternatives which may work and avoid having to be on SSRI's for the rest of your life.

Some people do not have all the dreadful side effects. Perhaps you are one of the lucky ones.

Doctors like Breggin have gon up against big pharma and are targets. I would need to see his rejected controversial ideas about kids in context before responding to that, but plenty of kids "play doctor" without harm, I am pretty sure. I do not swear by Breggin by any means. He is a licensed practicing psychiatrist and his article was peer reviewed with great citations and his credentials look pretty impeccable at first blush. But he is in the video so I searched him and found his peer reviewed article with solid data

But I appreciate your wiki link. It made it clear that the Foxnews source for the quote from the guy, Steve Milloy, who runs the junkscience website (probably a big pharma front), has an agenda to discredit Breggin. I could not find a direct source for the quote via google to see the context.

The fact that he is a target of business and big pharmacy for opposing ritalin and other drugs for kids, electro shock therapy and wrote the book "Talking back to prozac" AND the fact that he discusses the issue of those who get SSRI treatment cannot see where they may be "getting worse" is no surprise.

WIKI: "Breggin is the author of Toxic Psychiatry, Talking Back to Prozac, Talking Back to Ritalin, The Ritalin Fact Book, and The Heart of Being Helpful. His most recent book, the second edition of Brain-Disabling Treatments in Psychiatry, deals with the alleged brain-disabling features of psychiatric treatment, medication spellbinding, (in which patients who are doing worse after treatment fail to see that they are doing worse or recognize why),<3> the adverse effects of drugs and electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), the hazards of diagnosing and medicating children, the psychopharmaceutical complex, and guidelines for psychotherapy and counseling.

[Confusious]

87. He's a media whore

And will give anyone a bjob for a few bucks.

Get back to me when you have more then 1000 doctors and shrinks saying this.

I'll give it some attention then.

I looked up the doctor who made that paper you linked to:

"He uses terms like "fraud" to describe the biological and genetic theories of mental disorders."

"In 1994, the president of the American Psychiatric Association called Breggin a "flat-earther" (suggesting he embraced outdated theories); the head of the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) called Breggin "ignorant"; and the former head of the National Institute of Mental Health called him an "outlaw.""

"Breggin reinforces the myth that mental illness is not real, that you wouldn't be ill if you'd pull yourself up by the bootstraps...his views stop people from getting treatment. They could cost a life."

That one *REALLY* galls me.

Here's another lovely one:

According to an article in Forbes, Breggin has also expressed some controversial views that he later rejected, such as that "it can be okay for children to have sexual relationships, <...> and that the vast majority of women have been sexually abused in childhood".<30> Similarly, Steven Milloy strongly criticized Breggin for making the following statement in his book The Psychology of Freedom: "permitting children to have sex among themselves would go a long way toward liberating them from oppressive parental authority. This is the main reason that parents fight so hard to prevent sex between children. Sexual freedom would allow their children to become truly independent of them."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

[Liberation Angel]

61. Medication Spellbinding: When the drugs only make you BELIEVE you are better

http://books.google.com/books?id=4nwc3WhBxlgC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=medication+spellbinding&source=bl&ots=hsCRcX87jh&sig=cQh5OTTTw5_u2j3K1vb7DczFhYc&hl=en&ei=g2nuSpbXHNTblAedv9T_BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=medication%20spellbinding&f=false


This has been what we experienced.

People think they are fine when they are acting crazier than they ever did before the SSRI's and placing themselves and others at risk.

I never knew the name of this before.

The "medicine" makes you think you can do no wrong.

Of course if it causes a surge of "feel good" serotonin no matter what happens, then important things become insignificant and feel no different than anything else. No need to empathize with others. No need for discretion. No need to care.

Like being drunk without staggering. Or high on weed without the fog or red eyes.

or high on cocaine or pcp (which it is compared to) just not so speedy.

[Confusious]

88. Have you ever taken them?

Get back to me on that.

[Euromutt]

91. Hence the randomized clinical trial (RCT)

Preferably a double-blinded one, where both the researchers and the test subjects don't know whether they're getting the real thing or the placebo. This has proven quite effective for verifying whether a pharmaceutical works better than placebo or not. I'm surprised Mr. Breggin hasn't heard of it.

[ohheckyeah]

95. I was put on Deseryl

not for depression but for insomnia due to back pain. After 6 months on the Deseryl I started having panic attacks. Nobody told me a side effect of Deseryl is panic attacks. If I had known, I would have gone off the Deseryl. I was then put on Xanax. Nobody told me the side effects of Xanax include depression. I became depressed and the Deseryl was upped and I had more panic attacks. The Xanax was upped and I had more depression. Side effects of both drugs include weight loss or decrease in appetite. I went from 120 pounds to 89 pounds. The doctors then wanted to treat me for anorexia. I wasn't anorexia. I certainly ate when I was hungry but I wasn't hungry often and I lost weight even when I ate.

Even when I quit both drugs the panic attacks continued until I went through a behavior modification program. I no longer suffer from anxiety or panic attacks. I think it took quite awhile to get both drugs out of my system and to feel normal. Looking back, I felt I had lived in a fog for those 2 years and everyone who knew me told me they felt like the lights were on but nobody was at home. I didn't like the change in my personality.

Deseryl started a living hell for me that Xanax made worse and it lasted for 2 years. Going off both drugs saved my life. I gained some weight and I found other ways to deal with back pain.

There are certainly people who SSRI's are appropriate for, but there are certainly doctors prescribing the SSRI's inappropriately and people suffer because of them.