Dr. Weil being attacked by the FDA for comments KNOWN TO BE TRUE.

[astral]

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm186837.htm

_______________________________
"Astragalus ... is ... used traditionally to ward off colds and flu, and has demonstrated both antiviral and immune-boosting effects in scientific investigation."
_______________________________
This is in the herbal version of the Physician's Desk Reference --- the fact that astragalus is known to be antiviral and immune-boosting is information that it is not legal for Dr. Weil to share -- because he sells a supplement that contains this natural item.

I know there are alot of quacks out there, and there are people here on the forum who believe the FDA is here to protect us, but who doesn't know about Dr. Andrew Weil? Who doesn't expect him to know what he is talking about? Are we going to stand up and say, "ENOUGH ALREADY!!" yet?

I sure hope so.

[SidDithers]

1. Sounds like he's saying Astralagus is an antiviral...

perhaps you can highlight "scientific investigation" that supports that claim.

Sid

[vadawg]

3. the evidence will be some dude or chick who recovered from a life threatening case of Ebola

or hanta virus or some other such nonsense...

[laughingliberal]

15. Univiersity of Maryland Medical Center's website said so, too

Astragalus has antibacterial, and anti-inflammatory properties. It is sometimes used topically for wounds. In addition, studies have shown that astragalus has antiviral properties and stimulates the immune system, suggesting that it is indeed effective at preventing colds.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/astragalus-000223.htm

They look pretty credible to me:


About the University of Maryland Medical Center
Vea esta página en español


UMMC One of Nation's Top 26 Acute Care Hospitals for Safety and Quality

The University of Maryland Medical Center (UMMC) is the heart of the University of Maryland Medical System's downtown campus.

The hospital provides comprehensive care for the West Baltimore community and tertiary care for Maryland and the surrounding area. The hospital has more intensive care beds than any other hospital in Maryland.

For a list of the specialty services and departments available at University Hospital, see our Specialty Services section.

[WhiteTara]

23. the google is your friend

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=Astralagus+is+an+antiviral&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Trillo]

25. in vitro cytopathic effect antiviral "experimental" study

Experimental study of the effect of Astragalus membranaceus against herpes simplex virus type 1

Sun Y, Yang J.

Department of Pharmaceutics, General Hospital of PLA, Beijing 100853, China.

OBJECTIVE: To study the inhibitory effects of Astragalus membranaceus on herpes simplex virus type 1(HSV-1). METHODS: In the 2BS cells infected with HSV-1, the antiviral effect of Astragalus membranaceus decoction was investigated by observing the inhibition of HSV-1-induced cytopathic effect in response to treatment with the decoction. RESULTS: The half inhibition concentration (IC50) and minimal inhibition concentration (MIC) of Astragalus membranaceus were 0.98 and 1.95 g/ml respectively, with the therapeutic index (TI) of 128. CONCLUSION: Astragalus membranaceus has obvious HSV-1-inhibiting efficacy and low cytotoxicity.

PMID: 14724098

[MH1]

2. We need to find a way that natural substances can have certain claims verified

and "approved" by the FDA, despite that the profit potential isn't like what it is for pharmaceuticals.

i.e. "open-source" substances need to be able to be promoted by TRUE statements (or statements that have been reasonably verified), not just the proprietary substances.

[vadawg]

4. yup, if you want to let the general public use it for sure, though if you want to take it youself

then you are free to knock yourself out as long as you are not selling it to others...

[laughingliberal]

5. Some information found on Astragalus

Memorial Sloan Kettering:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69128.cfm

University of Maryland Medical Center:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/astragalus-000223.htm

[Trillo]

17. (Astragalus) Evaluation of Widely Consumed Botanicals as Immunological Adjuvants

Evaluation of Widely Consumed Botanicals as Immunological Adjuvants
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2565601/

Results
Consistent significant adjuvant activity was observed after s.c vaccination with the Coriolus extracts (especially PSK), a 95% ethanol extract of astragalus and yeast β-glucan, and (to a lesser extent) Maitake. Antibodies against KLH in all cases and against globo H in most cases were induced by these botanicals. Little or no adjuvant activity was demonstrated with H48 or Echinacea extracts or the astragalus water extract. Experiments with GD3-KLH as immunogen confirmed the adjuvant activity of the Coriolus, yeast β-glucan and Astragalus extracts. While extraction with ethanol concentrated the active ingredients in astragalus, it had no impact on coriolus where the 90% ethanol precipitate and solute were equally active.
Conclusions
Some, but not all, botanicals purported to be immune stimulants had adjuvant activity in our model. PSK and astragalus were surprisingly active and are being further fractionated to identify the most active adjuvant components.

[Liberation Angel]

6. Dr Weil's response (he supports FDA action). Plus: I use Astragalus

Dr Weil's response is here (at his website):



Dr. Weil's Response to Today Show Story, 10/16/2009
For immediate release.

TUCSON, Ariz, Oct. 16, 2009 - I have received several inquiries regarding a segment on NBC's Today Show that aired Friday, Oct. 16, 2009. The segment was about an FDA/FTC warning that was issued to numerous websites and other media outlets. The warning stated that the recipients had made marketing claims that "unapproved/uncleared/unauthorized" products could "diagnose, mitigate, prevent, treat or cure" the H1N1 flu virus in human beings. My website, www.drweil.com, was included in the list.

Many of the outlets on the list promoted products that were unethical and clearly egregious violations of FDA standards, including counterfeit versions of pharmaceuticals such as Tamiflu. Weil Lifestyle, LLC, the company that sells vitamins and herbal supplements under my name, has never made or marketed a product of that nature.



The content that was called into question in the warning was primarily educational, including appropriate strategies to avoid getting the flu this season. It included the official recommendations for H1N1 flu vaccination from the Centers for Disease Control. The content also included comments about ingredients in Weil Lifestyle and other supplements which may help support a healthy immune system.

Because these products and the flu (which is a medical diagnosis) were both mentioned in editorial content on the site, and it was suggested that particular traditional herbal ingredients may provide some protection against flu, it was the opinion of the FDA/FTC that the language was in violation of current standards.

All Weil editorial content is reviewed for compliance with FDA /FTC guidelines. I directed the website team to remove the FDA/FTC-referenced content for review, and they have done so. I fully support the FDA/FTC task force in its efforts.


My experience:

Astragalus is cheap at Asian markets (expensive at health food stores) and I have found it very helpful and I use it regularly (I buy the whole root and make tea with it or put it in soup etc as the Asians do (it tastes okay but is tricky to cook, like burdock, so is easiest to consume in tea). Dr Weil's product looks really good, but it does appear that advertising that something will prevent or treat the swine flu WILL get you busted if you are not FDA approved.

As much as I believe this is an overreaction, Weil is a casualty here of the fact that there WILL be junk sold as a remedy or cure.

Astragalus, as the last post shows, is very useful to protect one's immune system. When mixed with mushroom (which i also use) as Weil's product is, I am sure it would probably significantly help protect one form the "swine flu" (which i believe is probably a mutated military bioweapon or other accidental byproduct of bioweapons) and its ramifications.

Using immune enhancing phytocemicals from plants which kill kill viruses and bacteria is a GOOD idea.

BUT there are idiots who will buy crap and thus they need some protection from patently false or unPROVEN claims.

Weil simply got his product TOO hyped for swine flu (whether it works or not, whic i believe it probably does) but since it is NOT FDA approved for swine flu he prety much HAS to pul this promotion.

Too bad though for him. And for those whose lives might be saved by using that product.

[vadawg]

9. any proof that it will significally protect from swine flu, or is that just made up shit

Astragalus, as the last post shows, is very useful to protect one's immune system. When mixed with mushroom (which i also use) as Weil's product is, I am sure it would probably significantly help protect one form the "swine flu" (which i believe is probably a mutated military bioweapon or other accidental byproduct of bioweapons) and its ramifications.


i cant figure out if your actually trying to convince people its a good product or if you are trying to make it look like only loons would use it... :shrug:

[Liberation Angel]

11. "Significantly protect"? I dunno. But I think it would certainly HELP bolster the immune system

and kill viruses and bacteria.

That can't hurt.

I think it MIGHT significantly protect if used sufficienty and regularly.

I love its effect and it helps reduce stress too.

[vadawg]

12. so does masturbating whilst wearing a sheepskin rug, but i dont know if i would bet my life on it

i appreciate your belief in it, but i would urge you to get the vaccine if you can... i dont want this post to be your famous last words....

[Liberation Angel]

26. No vaccine for me, dawg...

I would'nt trust these companies marketting these vaccine products or Rumsfeld's Tamiflu crap to protect me ever.

The best protection after smart exposure precautions is a healthy immune system and anti-viral, antimicrobial and anti-bacterial medicinal plants.

Bacterial infections are what is killing most people secondary to the flu so strong antibacterial/antimicrobial medicinals are called for.

I highly recommend maitaki mushrooms (which you can find at whole foods). Wiki them. Shitake too.

Injecting the virus (dead or alive) into me is not gonna happen.

And your analogy sucks.

I would bet my life on my experience with medicinal plants (my father was a practitioner and I have been working with medicinal plants my entire adult life - and not just the fun/funny ones).

Golden Seal and Myrrh will help lots if you get sick IMHO.

One thing I learned from a doctor years ago: if your sinuses start to feel icky swab a q-tip soaked in peroxide in the nostrils (salt water also works but peroxide is stronger) - it kills the infection on contact. It hurts like hell but it also hurts/kills the nasty bacteria buggers that are multiplying in your sinus cavities. THAT can save your life.

[vadawg]

39. sorry but i watched to many people die from the lack of those simple modern medicines

good luck if you want to go that route, but as i always ask if smallpox was prevelant again would you want the vaccine or would you just eat some herbs or boost your vitamin d or something, so though i know of many plants etc that can help minor ailments when it comes to the big IT COULD KILL YOU stuff i go with what ive seen working...

[Liberation Angel]

45. I am not opposed to all vaccines by any means, but I prefer to enhance my immune system

and some exposure to the flu helps if you have a strong enough immune system enhanced with phytochemicals.

Some folsk do not have that.

But I see it as Russian Roulette either way.

I prefer to trust my own instincts.

Not big pharma....

besides...

as I have said elsewhere in this thread, I honestly believe this is probably an out of control (or maybe even a controlled release) bioweapon - like the weaponized anthrax released after 9-11.

So tusting the military corporations that brought us that stuff is not really my thing.

I'd like to be protected without reliance on corporate influence or hype.

[vadawg]

47. once again i hope this thread dosent become part of your eulogy

:)

[DireStrike]

66. You've seen people die of the flu?

Wow. That sucks.

[arikara]

22. They do stuff they have no business doing

The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

They just got caught that time. Only a loon *would* trust them.

Tamiflu which is FDA approved only shortens the duration by one day and has potentially horrendous side effects. FDA is not working for the people.

[Cha]

19. Thanks for that

additional info, LA.

[LeftyMom]

27. The swine flu is an escaped bioweapon now?

Oh ffs, I had it last month. It was, if anything, a bit milder than the typical seasonal flu.

Escaped bioweapon. :rofl:

[Liberation Angel]

28. CIA used Swine Flu varient as bio weapon in 1971

CIA used Swine Flu varient as bio weapon in 1971


San Francisco Chronicle
January 10, 1977 Front page
CIA Link to Cuban Pig Virus Reported
New York

With at least the tacit backing of U.S. Central Intelligence Agency officials, operatives linked to anti-Castro terrorists introduced African swine fever virus into Cuba in 1971.
Six weeks later an outbreak of the disease forced the slaughter of 500,000 pigs to prevent a nationwide animal epidemic.

A U.S. intelligence source told Newsday last week he was given the virus in a sealed, unmarked container at a U.S. Army base and CIA training ground in the Panama Canal Zone, with instructions to turn it over to the anti-Castro group. The 1971 outbreak, the first and only time the disease has hit the Western Hemisphere, was labeled the “most alarming event” of 1971 by the United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization. African swine fever is a highly contagious and usually lethal viral disease that infects only pigs and, unlike swine flu, cannot be transmitted to humans.
All production of pork, a Cuban staple, halted, apparently for several months.

A CIA spokesman, Dennis Berend, in response to a Newsday request for comment, said, “We don’t comment on information from unnamed and, at best, obscure sources.”
Why the virus turned up in Cuba has been a mystery to animal investigators ever since the outbreak. Informed speculation assumed that the virus entered Cuba either in garbage from a commercial airliner or in sausages brought in by merchant seamen. However, on the basis of numerous interviews over four months with U.S. intelligence sources, Cuban exiles and scientists concerning the outbreak — which occurred two years after then-President Nixon had banned the use of offensive chemical and biological warfare — Newsday was able to piece together this account of events leading up to the outbreak.

The U.S. intelligence source said that early in 1971 he was given the virus in a sealed, unmarked container at Ft. Gulick, an Army base in the Panama Canal Zone. The CIA also operates a paramilitary training center for career personnel and mercenaries at Ft. Gulick. The source said he was given instructions to turn the container with the virus over to members of an anti-Castro group.
The container then was given to a person in the Canal Zone, who took it by boat and turned it over to persons aboard a fishing trawler off the Panamanian coast. The source said the substance was not identified to him until months after the outbreak in Cuba. He would not elaborate further.

Another man involved in the operation, a Cuban exile who asked not to be identified, said he was on the trawler when the virus was put aboard at a rendezvous point off Bocas del Toro, Panama. He said the trawler carried the virus to Navassa Island, a tiny, deserted, U.S.-owned island between Jamaica and Haiti. From there, after the trawler made a brief stopover, the container was taken to Cuba and given to other operatives on the southern coast near the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay in late March, according to the source on the trawler.

[LeftyMom]

30. That wasn't "swine flu" and it wasn't used to infect humans.

Moreover, I'm not sure how a nearly 40 year old conspiracy to harm the Cuban pork industry indicates that a current unrelated flu virus is somehow a secret government-produced bioweapon. I'm also fairly sure that if the gov't bioweapons people wanted to release a weapon they could manage to do a better job that spreading something a bit milder than the typical seasonal flu.

[Liberation Angel]

41. Shortly after this CIA operation, swine flu crossed over to humans

This is well known history. The first outbreak of swine flu in humans was only a few years after the release of the virus in Cuba (and interestingly near the US military base in Cuba.

Evidence that this was "blowback" is out there: i.e. the US military-intel used "swine flu" as a bioweapon and it crossed over to humans.

I am not alone in believing that this is a likely scenario.

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/04/28/cia-link-to-cuban-pig-virus-reported

That is just a sample of some perspectives on this.

When you look closely at the evidence it is a very plausible persepective.

And I am not saying that this release was intentional (althugh who knows, it did appear first largely in Mexico when Obama was there and a member of his staff was infected - indicating it might even have been an assassination attempt imho)

[LeftyMom]

53. Your own freakin' link says it's not the same disease.

Moreover, flu spreads cross-species all the time! Do you know how the flu strains for each year's shot are determined? They're based on the prevalent flu strains in migratory birds in Asia the year before. Because most common flu strains come from birds. Swine flu such as the 1976 outbreak, comes from pigs and generally isn't real catching in humans and sticks to people who handle pigs and their close contacts. What makes H1N1 interesting is that it combines some traits of swine flu and bird-based strains, which isn't really surprising because viruses mutate all the damned time, but it's novel enough that a lot of people don't have much defense against it.

As far as your absolutely crazy idea that H1N1 constituted an assassination attempt on Obama, potentially exposing a healthy adult male to a mild flu variant would be about as effective an assassination attempt as one involving Nerf darts.

[Liberation Angel]

58. Its a variant and 1000 Americans are dead already

Who the hell knows whether this came from a bioweapons lab or not? I believe there is plenty of evidence that it MAY have.

And since those who have controlled these viruses and have weaponized them in the past do have a motive to harm our commander in chief imho.

That said - if Obama had not been in Mexico when the viruses began to spread like wildfire and if a member of his own retinue was not infected, i would say my idea is totally far fetched.

To me the very fact that this MIGHT be a weaponized or bioweapon strain first "blossoming" within breathing distance of the President makes ME suspicious. It was close enough to make someone close to him sick.

As for the severity and the danger comparing it to nerf darts, tell that to the dead and the sick. Healthy people die from this.


I suppose you are not suspicious of the anthrax exposures either.

sheesh

I just said it is a POSSIBILITY. It IS suspicious to ME, but this is an area where I have some expertise. These fascists might try anything to stop Obama. Deny that?

[LeftyMom]

63. One more post on this and I'm done:

1. Really, not everything is about US politics. Viruses mutated, a new strain of a common disease popped up. The fact that an American politician was in the same country as the initial outbreak does not mean this has something to do with him.

2. You fail to read and understand your own links. You're conflating three different diseases in order to justify your nonsense conspiracy theory.

3. The H1N1 variant has so far had a lower fatality rate than typical seasonal flu. I know that doesn't make getting it any fun (BTDT) but it's not especially dangerous compared to other common flu strains except that some populations have reduced immunity because they haven't been exposed to similar strains.

4. Nobody would create a mild strain of flu to release somewhere near the president to try to kill him when there's roughly zero chance of killing a healthy man of his age with the flu. Bioweapons researchers have access to scary shit, why on earth would a rogue one make H1N1 when they have any number of nastier things in the freezer? That would be the stupidest, most wasteful and predictably impotent conspiracy ever.

5. Reports from the area where the strain likely started suggest people had been getting sick with it for months before anybody really noticed. So the timing doesn't even work with your crazy idea. Sorry.

[Liberation Angel]

75. H1Ni is Not a common disease

These diseases are not different they are VARIANTS.

The fact is that the US/CIA DID and still does engage in bioweapons research and has used them in the past, including the swine flu. Some people believe this variant may have mutated into what we see now. No conspiracy theory just a theory. It is not nonsensical, it is one theory. You cannot prove it or disprove it.

There may be other agendas at work. It may have been a coincidence or not that Obama was there, but, again, this is just a theory - a possibility - which made it suspicious to me, with my background in research on intellligence- military and fascist operations like COINTELPRO etc. It MIGHT be that this was designed to SCARE the president into doing what he is doing now: waiving restrictions on vaccine companies to make pharmaceutical industries to sell MILLIONS of doses. It is, again, just a theory.

Who knows what creepy bad people might try? We do know that a lot of threats and attempts have been made against this president. Again, there is no way to say it could NOT have been an effort to harm the president or scare him into approving these vaccines which put millions or bilions into the pockets of those who oppose his policies.

You may well be right that the flu was around long before Obama arrived there. No need to be sorry. It was just suspicious timing to me. But if you are right it is not so suspicious.

NONE of this makes it knowable by either of us whether this is an escaped bioweapon product or not. I think it MAY be. You can believe otherwise, but I fail to see how you can be so certain unless you have much greater knowledge than I do.


As FDR is said to have said: "nothing in politics happens by accident. If it happened you can bet it was planned that way." (paraphrase)

In military and intel ops accidents happen. Blowback happens.

I tend to be alert for these possibilities.

There is nothing crazy about that. it is our history. Conspiracies happen all the time. To deny that is foolish and naive and dangerously so.

[anigbrowl]

83. Not even wrong

The fact is that the US/CIA DID and still does engage in bioweapons research and has used them in the past, including the swine flu. Some people believe this variant may have mutated into what we see now. No conspiracy theory just a theory. It is not nonsensical, it is one theory. You cannot prove it or disprove it.

It is not a theory, at least it is not a scientific one. By definition, a scientific theory is falsifiable. Throwing out statements that 'cannot (be) proved or disproved' is nothing more than had-waving. You might as well start speculating that H1N1 was created by aliens or fairies.

There may be other agendas at work. It may have been a coincidence or not that Obama was there, but, again, this is just a theory - a possibility - which made it suspicious to me, with my background in research on intellligence- military and fascist operations like COINTELPRO etc.

What background is this, pray tell? Does it amount to anything more than reading books and websites?

It MIGHT be that this was designed to SCARE the president into doing what he is doing now: waiving restrictions on vaccine companies to make pharmaceutical industries to sell MILLIONS of doses. It is, again, just a theory.

Riiiight. Just like bird flu was a plot to scare W or (insert other recent communicable disease here). Look, diseases mutate in the wild and throw up new strains without any help from bioweapons labs. This is basic stuff, which we've known since not long after we developed the germ theory of disease. There are worries about a superflu every few years because such mutations are a fact of life and epidemiologists have long been aware of this.

And again, it's not a theory without evidence and some kind of falsifiability. All you are doing is fear-mongering, and asuming that anything bad, even if it appears to have entirely natural causes, is somehow the result of malice.

Who knows what creepy bad people might try? We do know that a lot of threats and attempts have been made against this president. Again, there is no way to say it could NOT have been an effort to harm the president or scare him into approving these vaccines which put millions or bilions into the pockets of those who oppose his policies.

No, let's blame aliens. I mean they could exist, who's to say they don't?

There is nothing crazy about that. it is our history. Conspiracies happen all the time. To deny that is foolish and naive and dangerously so.

So is to label everything you don't understand as a possible conspiracy, without proper supporting evidence. That's basically the way lynch mobs operate.

[Dorian Gray]

79. So you think that it's the nefarious

plan of evil minions to kill President Obama with the flu?

[Liberation Angel]

80. not really

but I wouldn't put it past them

there may have been some other motive (make money) for the coinciding in time of the outbreak, Obama's visit, and the infection of one of his staff on the Mexico trip (meaning the flu was THISCLOSE to the president when it first began to appear/spread).

But they might have tried to infect him.

They certainly have the track record for such things.

[boppers]

56. Your history is totally wrong. 1918 was when this was first noticed.

We didn't even really understand what DNA was yet, and yet cross species infections were noticed in the 1918 pandemic. The current H1N1 strain is a descendant of the 1918 strain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

edit: clarify strains

[Liberation Angel]

76. No - its not. If you read the wiki article lined there's NO AGREEMENT swine flu appeared in 1918

Again, these new ones are variants and mutated varieties.

Interesting again that the flu outbreak DID occur on a military base in Kansas in 1918 as did the outbreak in the 1970's which led to mass vaccinations where more people died from the vaccines than rom the disease.

I just can't ignore the fact that these strains and variants arise on military bases.

Besides, my point was that the 1970's outbreak followed the release of swine flu by the CIA and after experiments where they were testing it in the US. The NEW outbreaks of the new variant occurred shortly after these events (within a few years - although it may not have been noticed for awhile in general).

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberation Angel]

81. Alerted - personal attack

but in the meantime - more people did die from the vaccine in the 1970's outbreak than died from the flu. That is public record.

Swine flu was also released by the CIA as a bioweapon. That is also a matter of public record.

When someone starts attacking me personally in the way you do here: I alert.

It is uncool.

[anigbrowl]

82. Oh god

[Dorian Gray]

37. Why do you think that swine flu

is a mutated military bioweapon? It's a flu. There are flus every year.

[Liberation Angel]

42. The US was experimenting and using swine flu as a bioweapon

since Nixon's years. It crosssed to humans aroud that time

I am not alone in believing this possibility:

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/04/28/cia-link-to-cuban-pig-virus-reported

[snagglepuss]

7. The issue is he is flogging his immune supplements. Quackwatch

has interesting article on Weil and if you google "Dr Weil critics" there is lots of choices.

I am as skeptical about Big Herbal as I am about Big Pharma. I avoid drugs unless absolutely necessary, for instance, a doctor insisted that I immediately take Lipitor because cholesterol went through the roof.
She insisted I didn't have time to try alternatives like diet. No way I was going to take Lipitor.

In 4 months my numbers were cut by half with diet alone, no Lipitor So I assure you I'm no dupe of Big Pharma and I do use home remedies I've found effective. I just am skeptical of people who have a vested interest in whatever they are promoting.




Quack Watch: A Trip to Stonesville: Some Notes on Andrew Weil (1998)

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/weil.html

[eShirl]

8. "I just am skeptical of people who have a vested interest in whatever they are promoting."

Me too, whether it's a doctor, hair stylist, whatever.

Also, Weil's products are slightly overpriced, as one can see if one comparison shops.

[Liberation Angel]

10. Asian markets sell a pound of astragalus for $6.00. Natural foods for $60.00

I imagine the supplements are okay but it is much cheaper to make tea or even make your own capsules with this stuff.

It is, from my experience and from thousand of years of Asian use, excellent healing root. So are the mushrooms in Weil's supplement but you can find them in the woods or even at Wholefoods (Maitake, for example, or even Shitake)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. Thanks for this info. How do you prepare the root to make tea? Do you grind it?

Thanks in advance and :hi:

[Liberation Angel]

44. Actually, my local Oriental market sells it in dried sliced root ---

in one pound packages.

I usually just rinse the slices (one or two) and cut them with scissors into a cup of tea or simmer them for a few minutes to soften them. You can chew them up.

As they are fibrous they are hard to grind up so cutting them into small pieces (1/4 inch square) works best for me.

They taste a bit like burdock (a little earthy) but not bitter at all.

The imported kind are preserved with sulfites (which I tolerate well) but you can find them online in powdered or root slices for less than $20.00 a pound. With my budget the oriental market prices are the best, but some folks may want to bypass the sulfites and get it elsewhere --- it is just at least 2 or 3 times more expensive or more. The powdered can be simmered and drunk as tea or put into soup etc.

I do believe that the Maitake and shitake mushrooms may be the best protection I have found so far, but combining them as Dr Weil does is not a bad idea IMHO. (I do)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

50. Thanks again! I don't have an oriental market where I live and I did

look on eBay. It seems that there are several sellers of this there with a price range from $20-$30 per pound root.
There is also a supplement that has it with mushrooms.
I am definitely going to look into try it out. :)
:hi:

[Liberation Angel]

52. I found this which may be cheaper but google!

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:OzbeBiH3c1MJ:www.frontiercoop.com/products.php%3Fct%3Dhchhaz%26cn%3DAstragalus%2BRoot+astragalus+sulfites&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

[eShirl]

62. the place I get herbs & spices has it a bit cheaper

http://www.herbalcom.com/

[Liberation Angel]

74. Thanks - that is an awesome source -- because...awesome great prices

I usually buy my herbs etc at stores and not online I haven't searched these but am very familiar with many prices in stores and these pries are really really good.

The only questions I have is the purity of the herb sources and whether they are irradiated or otherwise preserved.

Organics are obviously preferred and may be owrth the higher price --- but this is a great source to do comparison pricing an if you are on a busget, as I am, some herbs are so important that I can overlook the fact that they are not organic (at least until i can afford those that are organic or which have a comparable price).

It is very hard to tell the quality of such items without trying them and still it is hard to tell whether the "negatives" (irradiation, not organic sources) are outweighed by the positive effects. With some herbs I would say they are so important that the positives outweigh the negatives --- but that is a judgment call.

But I really appreciate this source.

Thanks

On Edit: I just reread the info and this site DOES provide non-irradiated and organic products

AWESOME!

Thanks

Best prices I have seen (with the exception of some oriental markets but their quality control is suspect imho and they do not demonstrate organic sources)

[kickysnana]

24. Quackwatch was shut down in Canada because they give false information.

By their High Court.

Quackwatch is a propaganda tool started by the people who were shut down for libeling any alternative medicines in the third quarter of the last century. At that time they were funded by the AMA. They are now funded by big pharma to attack anything that deflects profits from big pharma.

It is a bad source for information.

[snagglepuss]

29. Thanks for the heads up. That is astounding. However I remain as

skeptical of Big Herbal as I do of Big Pharma and Weil IMO is part of BigHerbal.

[SidDithers]

49. It's astounding, because it's not true....nt

Sid

[DeltaLitProf]

32. This is simply not true

There has never been any AMA funding, nor is there any big pharma funding. They operate on a shoestring.

I challenge this poster to produce his/her sources.

[kickysnana]

34. Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases

http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html

At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training.

The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within the past few years and had not won one single one at trial.

During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA)....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Ties to the FDA? AMA? My goodness.

Well, his site's been recognized by the AMA as a reliable source of information. And the FDA has given him an award for his public service in fighting quackery.

As if that's a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quackwatch

[DeltaLitProf]

77. Not a good source

Sorry. Your source is not exactly disinterested. And it's not exactly showing us court transcripts. Surely, you have better ones.

[kickysnana]

35. "Quackpot Menace" CLUBBED in Canada...

http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20010107a.html

Polevoy, who operates Canada's version of Barrett's "quackwatch.com," a propaganda website aimed at discrediting leading-edge health practitioners, and health philosophies Barrett doesn't agree with, was dealt the biggest blow the "quackbuster conspiracy" has ever been given. Barrett, and his minions, label leading edge health professionals "quacks."

The Ontario government, in an official action, has formally declared the quackbuster philosophy as "bunk." Ontario holds one-third of Canada's entire population.

Polevoy's website, "healthwatcher.com" is even more strident than Barrett's in its efforts to discredit and belittle health humanitarians who embrace natural approaches to health.

The "quackbuster" organization, is sort of an organized idiocy, an attempt to legitimize medical backwardness. It is epitomized by the writings of "chief quackpot" Stephen Barrett. The government of New Zealand officially labeled Barrett's writings as "propaganda, and of no evidentiary value."

Health leaders call Barrett, and company, "quackpots," and their organization "The Quackpot Menace."

Both Barrett and Polevoy have been besieged with problems of late. Draft dodging Polevoy was under investigation by the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario over charges filed against him raising issueS of professional misconduct due to his website activities, and his "stalking" of Canadian Radio personality Christine McPhee, and other females.

more from court records:
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/quackbusters_barrett.htm

[SidDithers]

48. That looks like a civil suit to me...

nothing to do with the Ontario government.

I don't think you've got your facts correct.

Sid

[SidDithers]

46. And yet here I am, sitting in Ontario...

and able to access both quackwatch and healthwatcher.net.

So, what was shut down?

Sid

[Trillo]

13. "herbal version of the Physician's Desk Reference"

In thinking about one difference between Big Pharma's strategy and Weil's strategy, because doctors don't sell pharmaceuticals (occasionally they give away "samples"), they are allowed to recommend Big Pharma's drugs.

It seems this is aided by a large, existing network of pharmacies.

Just a thought: One wonders how such corporate structures such as most corporate stocks being narrowly controlled by the same few folks even though non-controlling ownership is broad might work into this if, say, the doc is working for or is a contractor of a hospital and the pharmacist similarly for a pharmacy. It seems like it may be an unfair setup, to allow what may be a "single entity" corporate person's agents to do something that "single entity" humans are prohibited from doing.

[laughingliberal]

14. Unless, of course, the doctor is an oncologist

Trillo writes:

"In thinking about one difference between Big Pharma's strategy and Weil's strategy, because doctors don't sell pharmaceuticals (occasionally they give away "samples"), they are allowed to recommend Big Pharma's drugs."

Oncoloists do sell pharmaceuticals which caused me no small amount of alarm as an oncology nurse when I saw patients I believed were not always given accurate risk/benefit information about the expensive/profitable chemo treatments they were taking. Not saying all or even most oncologists would do this but the incentive certainly exists.

[Trillo]

16. So docs do sell drugs?

A sports medicine doc I recently saw injected one of my joints with cortisone to reduce some swelling. I'm quite certain some of the various fees I paid must have paid for the cortisone, even though I didn't separately go to a pharmacy and buy it and bring it back to the doc for his use. I'm not sure how that was "accounted" for in billing, as billing is typically a bit opaque (deductibles and copays are transparent).

I suppose it's possible the injectible was provided to the doc's clinic for free. There's either a freebie incentive to favor those kinds of treatments over any alternatives that may exist, or the docs are recommending and selling drugs and accounting for those sales in some way.

[laughingliberal]

21. Yes, they do

An excerpt from an open letter from an oncologist:


It has taken me a while to sort out how I feel about the drugs we use. I began practicing in the late 1970s, and I remember the increasing role and influence of chemotherapy. As more drugs became available, with more evidence that they were effective, our optimism increased --and use increased as well.
It became clear to many physicians—consciously or not--that selling chemotherapy was really the business they ought to be in as we were compensated so very well for it. The time one spent with patients was not compensated nearly as well. This is not unlike the rewards bestowed upon those who perform operations (at least historically), pass tubes into orifices (GI) or make holes for tubes (cardiology & orthopedics), purchase and use their own imaging machines etc.

When doctors are paid to “do more” there is always the potential for conflict of interest. Keep in mind that physicians are human beings with the same kinds of responses to financial incentives as everyone else. Despite our training and promise to put our patient’s interest first, we succumb to incentives that often come in the form of more revenue.

As time went on and science grew, we became increasingly more successful in providing chemotherapy that actually worked, and it was a lot easier for doctors to sell chemotherapy than it was for them to spend the kind of time necessary to give patients choices.

http://www.healthbeatblog.org/2009/01/a-very-open-letter-from-an-oncologist.html

As for other specialties and medications, I can not say with certainty. But I would have to believe they purchase the cortisone, flu shots, etc...they administer in their offices. And it would only make sense they are reimbursed at a rate which would cover the cost of the drug. I am not speaking to the ethics of this one way or the other. Just pointing out the fallacy in dismissing an alternative remedy recommended by a physician just because he happens to market the product.

edited for clarity

[northzax]

31. Well (Weill?), there's a key difference

An Oncologist selling you chemotherapy is doing so because first, she diagnosed you with cancer (or someone else did and she confirmed the diagnosis) and second: that this particular chemcical compound has been demonstrated in supervised, published clinical trials to have an effect on others with a similar diagnosis. Not a similar compound, the same compound. And then she administers it herself (or under her direct supervision) and if she made a mistake, she is legally and financially liable for it.

If Dr. Weill said, for instance, 'my asperaglas compound has been shown to reduce viral infections' and it wasn't, he'd be liable, right? If you were his patient, and he sold it to you, he'd be liable if he was wrong. But, of course, he can't say that, because his compound hasn't been tested like that. So he can't tell you his will work, becaus he has no real clinical data to back it up. He can say that other versions have been shown to work, if they have (clinically, not just anecdotally) but even that's dangerous, because who knows what formulations are actually available? So you are supposed to see him say this and then go buy HIS version which by dint of association must be the best (otherwise, why would he make it?) his plan is to make you associate him with the right formula, the trusted source. When he has no data to back that up. That's the FDA's problem. He's making a claim that could be reasonably inferred to mean that his supplement does this, when he can't back that up clinically.

[laughingliberal]

38. I believe it is accurate to say Astragalus has been shown to have antiviral properties

University of Maryland Medical Center's website says it. I think one could say this product contains Astragalus which has been shown to have antiviral properties. As long as there is Astragalus in the product the statement is accurate. Now, if there is no astragalus present it would not be accurate. It is not different than saying a product contains fiber and probiotics which have been shown to promote digestive health and product manufacturers make this claim all the time. I assume they are able to say this as long as there really are probiotics and fiber in the product.


Here is the statement from the University of Maryland Medical Center's website:

Astragalus has antibacterial, and anti-inflammatory properties. It is sometimes used topically for wounds. In addition, studies have shown that astragalus has antiviral properties and stimulates the immune system, suggesting that it is indeed effective at preventing colds.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/astragalus-000223.htm

[northzax]

51. I have no doubt

But has the compound Dr. Weill sells shown this? What's the therapeutic dose? The toxic dose? The known side effects? Potential cross indications for medications, either OTC or prescribed? What preexisting conditions may be exacerbated by ingestion?

[JTFrog]

36. Thank you for that link.

Some very good info there.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shanti Mama]

33. Does it have to be "discovered" by allopathic medicine to work?

What many Asians have known for 1,000s of years counts not at all, because substances they use weren't "discovered" and "proven" by western research. It's really insulting to the vast majority of the world that doesn't regularly turn to pharmaceuticals.

[BuddhaGirl]

40. +1

[rucky]

43. And herbs are being tested extensively in labs.

The FDA does not recognize overseas studies, but there's plenty here that's updated every year in the Materia Medica: www.pubmed.com

[boppers]

54. No, it has to actually be tested for the things it claims, regardess of where it came from.

Weil got busted for making snake-oil claims.

It doesn't matter if people "know" it works or not, it has to actually be tested to make specific medical claims. Sometimes the testing shows the claims are true, sometimes the testing shows the claims are false, sometimes the testing shows the claims are only true in specific circumstances.

[trotsky]

55. I find it astonishing that the very same people who bash the FDA...

for supposedly not testing things like the H1N1 vaccine enough will turn around and in the same breath bash the FDA for insisting claims like Dr. Weil's be tested.

:crazy:

[Liberation Angel]

59. Really? You trust the government, Trotsky? The Bush-Cheney sleeper cells?

There is plenty of testing for astragalus and for the mushrooms in his product. He claimed it MAY help which isn't much of a claim, frankly to prove.

But Obama just lifted restrictions on flu vaccines and Bush gave them immunity; it is wise to be cautious with the pharmaceutical companies which are among the biggest criminals in history commercially and they have killed many many patients.

The law is so vague that it covers Weil's meager claim alls within it - BUT it is okay with Weil to remove the claim and try to fix the product promotion on his website.

Why would you be astonished that we would support an alternative practitioner and NOT corporate fascists?

[trotsky]

61. Why does it have to be all or none?

Either I distrust the government, or I trust everything it does implicitly? Is that the deal?

I won't even answer such a ridiculous strawman charge.

[boppers]

64. Weil made H1N1-specific claims.

There isn't a whole lot of testing on astragalus and H1N1, unless you know about some paper that I don't.

I don't support liars selling "herbs", or "drugs", or "supplements", or any other marginally laughable crap. Sometimes those liars package themselves as corporations, sometimes as doctors, sometimes as alternative practitioners. Sometimes, as all 3.

I'm astonished that folks would prefer "alternative practitioners" *instead* of stuff that's actually proven to work. I'm mildly amused when people combine the two, without ill effect. I'm happy when folks find stuff that works.

[Trillo]

67. You mean like this "H1N1-specific claim"?

Seasonal influenza vaccines are highly effective in preventing influenza disease. The expectation is that a vaccine against 2009 H1N1 influenza would probably work in a similar fashion to the seasonal influenza vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_safety_qa.htm

[boppers]

70. Yes, yes I do.

Had Weil said "this product will probably work in a similar fashion", he would be in the clear.

Good science is often about very clear wording.

[northzax]

72. actually, he wouldn't be

if you sell herbal remedies, you can't actually make claims like this. the law is remarkably clear on this. if you don't sell them, you can make all the claims you want. (I can say publicly that garlic cures cancer. no problem. I don't sell garlic. if I did, I couldn't say that)

[anigbrowl]

84. No, but it has to be testable in a controlled environment

My in-laws are Asian and know all kinds of folk-medicinal stuff. We love them, but we don't trust their diagnoses for anything more than superficial matters. Asian medical researchers and pharmaceutical manufacturers are building on many years of cultural knowledge, but they're doing with controlled experimentation like any other scientist would: because that's the surest route to reproducible results.

[Lex]

60. penacillin is made from mold

I know it sounds crazy!

[boppers]

65. Aspirin is from tree bark.... eom

[northzax]

68. no it isn't

sorry, it's a fun myth and all, but acetylsalicylic acid was invented in a french chemistry lab in the 1850s, then finally developed as a medication by Bayer in the 1890s. sorry to burst your bubble on this one, but it is a product of big pharma.

[boppers]

69. Wikipedia disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin

Feel free to edit it, though.

[northzax]

71. one source of salicylic acid is willow bark, yes

Hippocrates wrote about it, even. but aspirin is completely artificially synthesized these days, and has been since Bayer figured out how to do it and made up the name 'Aspirin'.

[boppers]

73. I don't get your point.

If water is "completely artificially synthesized these days", is it not water?

[trotsky]

85. acetylsalicylic acid is not salicylic acid

You took some basic chemistry at some point, right?

[anigbrowl]

86. That's your problem

You're saying two similar things are the same.

Willow bark contains salicylic acid. Aspirin is Acetylsalicylic acid. There are strongly related, but not the same. Acetylization causes drugs to work differently (and largely, more effectively) in the human body, an doesn't occur naturally with willow bark. It's like the way grape juice and wine are superficially similar - they both taste of grape and have sugar in them, but ignoring the diference of the wine containing alcohol.