My personal opinion on what's going wrong with the health care debate.

[Joanne98]

First off it's too complicated. I think the Republicans have trapped the Dems into a complicated debate. Example:

We can cut costs thru wellness programs. Dobb is actually on Fox with Grassley right now and they both agree on that. THE PROBLEM IS people either don't have primary care doctors to find out what their conditions are or they don't have the money for tests. We have fifty million people who we don't even have data on. We know there are four or five diseases sucking up all the money but how can you get people to change their behavior when they aren't aware they have an illness?

High blood pressure for instance. My son just found out, thru the VA that he has high blood pressure. During a routine exam he got for bi-polar disorder. He had no idea. He's only in his thirty's. He's now on medication and he's changed his diet but if he hadn't got the checkup for free he would be clueless. How many people have problems like this. Diabetes, cancer, heart diease... If there's not just plain old regular checkups that people can afford then you have a huge problem. What's wrong with somebody, anybody, giving checkups for free just to get the information flowing.

They still aren't addressing the problem of the problems patients are having. The system isn't patient friendly. If our healthcare system was the internet, we would be using Windows without all the free software computer geeks invented to make it run right. Where's the goodwill? Where's the problems solvers who aren't just out to make a buck? Should we ask Slashdot to help? Maybe Wikipedia or Craig's list...

It's becoming perfectly clear that the politicians are trying to protect the special economic interests who make a living off a broken system.

Everybody's protecting their piece of the pie. They don't give a fuck if it works or not. Just whether their guys are in or out.

It's a hodgepodge of chaos and it's 16% OF our GDP!

What has happened is that Washington is more concerned with the GDP numbers than they are with providing healthcare. Really! Something they will never admit. It probably has to do with our country's credit rating or China but it's NOT how you provide healthcare.

I'm as upset as anybody else about the fact that we live in a hollowed out country. No manufacturing base, shrinking service sector etc... But you are killing your people when you deliberately inflate healthcare costs to compete with other countries on GDP numbers.

What our politicians are doing is nothing less than mass murder of their own citizens because it artificially inflates our successes.

My father died in 1996. He had throat cancer. He had medicare and AARP but after he was diagnosed we went thru something I called the gantlet. He was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and we still had to go to a nutritionist? WTF? Everybody had to get a little piece of my father before he died. Even though everybody knew he wasn't going to live, they milked it for every penny.

My mother died in 2003. It wasn't that bad with her but 2 days before she died, some internist gave her an operation to stop a bleeding ulcer. I still ashamed to this day that I didn't Punch his lights out.

It's amazing that the Republicans are saying we have the best healthcare in the world. NOBODY dies with dignity in this county. You want to save some money? Just tell people you know are dying the truth and quit trying to make a buck off them before they die. It's cruel!

You know I've started thinking about Doctor Kevorkian lately. He was on to something and they put him in prison. ALL the healthcare costs come at the end of life and all the vultures are there to get a piece of the dying body. It's a crime.

And last but not least.. The dreaded PPP. Public and Private Partnerships. Something the fucking DLC stuck us with. The PPP always fail. They are always worse than the more pure systems. You can't save than profits of the insurance companies if you are trying to provide affordable healthcare. You can't do it. You can't cut costs if you aren't trying to protect the profits of the drug companies.

They are either going to provide healthcare or NOT!

You can't have it both ways. You can't protect the patient and the disease profiteers at the same time. It's the patients or nothing.

It's really sad that we live in a country so warped by Wall Street that we can't even treat the sick. They have made that impossible. If we are still left with this system at the end of this process than at least let the sick kill themselves in peace without the threat of their family members going to jail.

[williesgirl]

1. Boy did you nail this one! Thanks. rec'd

[Joanne98]

2. Thankyou. I don't like to get personal but I'm really unhappy about the direction of this debate.

What about the patient? They're totally getting left out. It's shocking to me.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

3. I got a lot of flack a couple of weeks ago in a discussion

about "concierge" primary practices. The basics are that you pay a primary MD $1200 - $1800 a year for unlimited care. You are entitled to a comprehensive physical every year. The one doc I know of locally who is doing this says she spends more time with her patients now that she doesn't have to process insurance paperwork.

I still think there is a germ of a good idea there. If the MD's were paid by the government in this manner, they wouldn't have to spend time and money dealing with the bean-counters at the insurance companies. Everyone could be assigned to a primary MD. Some of us would utilize the system more than others, but at least we'd know it was there if we needed it.

The one negative I can think of is that there may not be enough primaries practicing right now. But I think a system like this could attract them.

This isn't thee whole answer. You'd still need a system to pay for lab tests, specialists, hospitalizations, etc. But I think it could be part of a solution.

[Joanne98]

5. I hate to say this but I'm beginning to support the idea of a "Walmart" for tests.

Tests are everything. Where's the beef? Where's the easy cheap way to get a test?

[napi21]

6. So,e tests could be performed quite inexpensively. The reg. blood

tests, cholesterol levels, urine, etx, but some simply cannot be. Any tests that require very expensive equipment are expensive because the equipment to do them is VERY VERY expensive. MRI's, neuclear medicine tests, etc. The equipment to do them costs millions of dollars each!

Some states we've lived in have individual clinics that do nothing but xrays, or blood work, or some other specialty, and I think that probably is more economical than areas that don't, but I still believe there are way too many unnecessary tests being done.

A close friend of mine is a Dir. of Finance for a very large hospital system, and when I conp,ained about that to her, she said "The malpractice insurance co's demand the Drs have all those tests done so there's no chance they will have to pay a claim. I believe her because several years ago I had been fighting off a bad cold that finally resulted in an ongoing feaver and severe congestion. I finally went to the Dr. and although I KNOW he knew I had pneumonia while I was in his office, he insisted I go to an xray clinic to determine the problem. The next day, the Drs office called to say I had pneumonia and they'd call in a prescription. WHY PAY FOR THE DAMN XRAY? There's a lot of this kind of crap going on that only adds to unnecessary costs!

[Joanne98]

7. Well, you're talking about tort reform, A biggie with Republicans BUT

A large amount of quack doctors repeat all the problems. Why doesn't the AMA help us create transparency so the bad doctors could have all the lawsuits filed on the internet so people could protect themselves before they go to them.

And what difference does expensive test do if nobody can afford to have them done? I suspect that a lot of hospitals got talked into shit they couldn't afford by Wall Street hacks!

Why is it that people in the medical field know so little about finance? Doesn't this make them sitting ducks for scam artists? It sounds like they are getting BLACKMAILED. They need to learn more about high finance. EVERYBODY IS INVESTED IN EVER BODY ELSE! It's a lose lose situation. Your friend needs be fired for being NAIVE!

They are muddying the waters. All this chaos is making big bucks for the people causing it.

[Joanne98]

8. PS We need and outside audit of just how "expensive" these test really are.

I have my doubts!

[napi21]

11. My friend is NOT ignorant of finance! I said the insurance cos that issue the

malpractice ins. are the ones that demand the drs have the tests done or they won't insure them! This has nothing to do with the hospital!

[Joanne98]

13. Remember the pirate incident? Guess why they can't have guns on board.

Because the insurance companies who insure their machinery said no. They said a stray bullet make hurt the machines and if they took guns on board they would cancel their contracts. BUT they were kind enough to sell them PIRATE INSURANCE. Nice of them don't ya think?

Sometimes it's easier to see how you're being scamed when you look at it another way.

The insurance companies ARE the problem. And yes I would support tort reform IF the AMA stopped protecting quacks.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Something like 65% of mal practice suit are generated by 5% of physician. A huge cost of many

mal practice awards is that the patient is so messed up they require health care for the rest of their lives because of the mal-practice done to them.

And the total cost of mal-practice a year is like one to two percent of the total spent on health care.


Mal practice is another right wing diversion that could be 99% solved with a single payer system that also tracked which doctors keep repeatedly fucking people up. And of course I would suggest that physicians need single payer non-profit mal-practice insurance, too. That would save them a bundle.

[Joanne98]

4. I love the nurses and doctors who are fighting for their patients but they don't understand

what's going on in Washington behind the scenes. The GDP numbers are EVERYTHING! When you talk about delivering healthcare that works, you're talking about wrecking the economy as far as they're concerned.

16% of the GDP. Think about that. Can you imagine what would happen if that number was brought down? Face it. Healthcare that works is bad for the economy! The sad fact is that the healthier Americans are BAD for the GDP. It's a fact.

I can't express how much admiration I have for the doctors and nurses who got arrested fighting for patients. God bless them but they are up against a solid wall of resistance that I'm not sure they even know exists.

I would like to see just ONE Congressperson get on the floor and accuse the lobbyists are trying to keep a system that artically inflates our numbers, They are literally making healthcare cost expensive on purpose because it's one of the only industries we have left. No joke.

I know that doesn't make sense but it's true.

Sick people who can't be cured and die a long and expensive death is our most important growth product.

[Kablooie]

9. Our government is by and for the corporations - ONLY! People, especially poor, are valueless.

[truedelphi]

10. Boy are we in agreement. You say:

We know there are four or five diseases sucking up all the money but how can you get people to change their behavior when they aren't aware they have an illness?

And what if it is not their behavior but Corporate Behavior that is the problem?

If you live in an area where there are oil refineries (or where the air blows from those refineries - in some cases - air blows from Texas refinery cities clear to Ohio!) your healthy choice lifestyle is challenged every time you breathe.

I think the People In Power are trying to propagandize the fact that it is "our choices" that make us sick. Is it? To work in a well paying career, most Americans live in polluted cities - this is a given.

My health got better once I moved away from a big metropolitian area. But most people there have to stay put - they need their careers, the kids need the schools etc. Should I be given an A# for cleaner lungs just because of my great luck in ending up somewhere healthy. (I never even realized how big an effect smog has on one's health till I moved outside the smog belt. I blamed my feeling yucky on mold, and what I ate and a half dozen other things. But in the end - it was the smog!)

[Joanne98]

14. Well that's a whole different subject. That's something most people can't do anything about.

But if you want to talk about choices in behavior, I think it's safe to say that when corporations shove advertising for fast food in the faces of people night and day it's makes it hard for people to quit bad habits.

Junk food is probably have of the problem. Advertising works and people are weak.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Amen sister, you got it right.!

[Joanne98]

15. thanks

[John Q. Citizen]

16. Please cross post your OP to the DU single payer group. It's worth archiving and retrieving