First Flu Death Provides Clues to Mexico Toll (delay in getting med help)

[uppityperson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/health/01oaxaca.html?scp=1&sq=Adela%20Maria%20Guti%C3%A9rrez%20&st=cse

Adela María Gutiérrez fell ill in the beginning of April with what she thought was a bad cold. She tried aspirin and antibiotics, bed rest and moist towels, but nothing brought down her soaring fever, reduced her aches and pains, or boosted her energy level. It would be more than a week before Mrs. Gutiérrez went to Oaxaca’s General Hospital, where she arrived listless and barely able to breathe, her extremities blue from a lack of oxygen. That delay in getting expert help may explain why Mrs. Gutiérrez, 39, a mother of daughters ages 10, 17 and 20, became Mexico’s first death from a new, virulent strain of influenza A(H1N1). It may also suggest why this country’s death toll from the virus is higher than any other’s.

Epidemiologists are still puzzled by the virus, its origins and its modes of transmission. But they agree that prompt medical attention is crucial to treating it. That has been where Mexico, which the Health Ministry said Thursday had 312 confirmed cases and 12 deaths, lags far behind. “People wait too long to go to doctors,” said Dr. Marcelo Noguera, undersecretary of health for the state of Oaxaca. “That’s a problem here in Mexico,” he continued. “If we can treat a disease like this early, we can stay ahead.”

There may well be other factors to explain why patients like Mrs. Gutiérrez, whose medical records show a desperate, belated scramble by doctors to keep her alive, are dying in Mexico at a higher rate than flu patients elsewhere. Mexicans may have been hit by a different, deadlier strain, or the flu may have infected more people who had other health problems, researchers speculate.

But one important factor may be the eclectic approach to health care in Mexico, where large numbers of people self-prescribe antibiotics, take only homeopathic medicine, or seek out mysterious vitamin injections. For many, only when all else fails do they go to a doctor, who may or may not be well prepared....

[Jeep789]

1. Going to the doctor for a cold or flu is generally discouraged

even in the US. I don't know how one can blame the victim for not knowing that in this case she should have gone.

[uppityperson]

2. A 21 yr old cousin died a couple yrs back from pneumonia. Didn't want to

bother the doctors.

The article is not just abut her, but about the others who died.

"But one important factor may be the eclectic approach to health care in Mexico, where large numbers of people self-prescribe antibiotics, take only homeopathic medicine, or seek out mysterious vitamin injections. For many, only when all else fails do they go to a doctor, who may or may not be well prepared...."

Ever see a copy of "Where There is No Doctor"? "Donde no Hay Doctor"? It is a good book.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-No-Doctor-Handbook/dp/0942364155
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_There_is_No_Doctor

[Jeep789]

5. Sorry to hear about your cousin. That is tragic.

I'm just saying that it is not clear to most people when they should seek professional help and when they shouldn't.

Aside from that, the article seems to be justifying taking health care decisions away from individuals and I disagree.

[hedgehog]

3. Even the CDC doesn't recomend anything outside normal

home care unless someone is having trouble breathing/turning blue.

When to Seek Emergency Medical Care

Get medical care right away if the sick person at home:

* has difficulty breathing or chest pain
* has purple or blue discoloration of the lips
* is vomiting and unable to keep liquids down
* has signs of dehydration such as dizziness when standing, absence of urination, or in infants, a lack of tears when they cry
* has seizures (for example, uncontrolled convulsions)
* is less responsive than normal or becomes confused
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidance_homecare.htm

[uppityperson]

8. imho, one of the reasons they are just not diagnosing flu in people is that

why go get tested, pay to be told "yes, you have the flu. no go home and take care of yourself"? Now people are going in to get tested and so more positive diagnoses based on tests are showing up.

However, I took article in Op to mean that people that wait longer, whether due to not having access, finances, treating self longer, go in sicker and are more apt to die. Which is generally true with most everything everywhere. But which could give a hint as to why people WERE dying of this and aren't so much now.

[Why Syzygy]

9. Culture, overcrowding, underfunding, medical sytem failure ...

(...) “I think it has to do with the culture, the idiosyncrasies of Mexicans,” said Dr. Nicolas Padilla, an epidemiologist at the University of Guanajuato. “The idea is that I don’t go to the doctor until I feel very bad.”

There also are logistical reasons that compel Mexicans to steer clear of hospitals. At overcrowded public facilities, they complain, they are often turned away, treated by indifferent doctors or made to wait endlessly.

Mrs. Gutiérrez’s husband, Luis, said Thursday in an interview in his home that when she arrived at the hospital, no bed was available, and no respirator. They give preference to people who are bleeding, who are near death, he said. (...)

Mrs. Gutiérrez, in contrast, continued working as a field worker for the national tax agency after first showing symptoms. It took her three days to go to a doctor at a small clinic a few blocks from her home. She was told she had a throat infection and should take antibiotics. As her condition worsened, she sought other opinions but still avoided the hospital. On her third consultation, a doctor told her she had pneumonia and sent her to the hospital. (...)

You sure you didn't take the article as an excuse to make an attempt at ridicule for people with whom you disagree?
More fodder for your group, perhaps? Motives are more transparent than you might assume.

Did you finish reading the article, or just stop when you thought you had your "gotcha"? I'd really like to know just how deeply this dishonest reporting runs.

[uppityperson]

10. Don't you get tired of jumping to those conclusions? I copy/pasted first few paragraphs

assuming that anyone interested would go read the whole thing. Also complying with the rules of the forum.

Working for universal health care, and trying to work at getting more accessible affordable health care for all. Your accusations tell me you know little about me. And that you didn't read my whole post which included this:

"people that wait longer, whether due to not having access, finances, treating self longer, go in sicker and are more apt to die. Which is generally true with most everything everywhere. But which could give a hint as to why people WERE dying of this and aren't so much now."

[Why Syzygy]

11. You did not make an honest attempt

to explore the entire array of contributing factors. You've posted three times including the OP with the canard you are pushing.
"People who self treat are gonna DIE!"

Actually, I read that sentence about three times due to your misuse of sentence structure and commas.

[uppityperson]

12. No, I have posted this...and moved the word "AND" to clarify

people that wait longer, whether due to not having access, finances, treating self longer, AND go in sicker, are more apt to die. Which is generally true with most everything everywhere. But which could give a hint as to why people WERE dying of this and aren't so much now.

The depression is also causing this amongst people I know. Clinics here are concerned because people are waiting until they are sicker to be seen.

JCOATH, self treat all you want. It is a fact though that the sicker someone is, the more apt they are to die. As my 21 yr old cousin with pneumonia showed. By the time went to the ER, lungs were too full of gunk to allow oxygen to get in and died.

Sounds like you have a problem with "Dr. Marcelo Noguera, undersecretary of health for the state of Oaxaca"s statement in the OP. take it up with him. I copy/pasted the bit per rules.

[Why Syzygy]

14. You are talking to someone

who was doped up with Demerol (when that's the ONLY thing I asked them not to give me) and sent home with a ruptured appendix sitting in my gut. The ONLY reason I did not die is because I disobeyed orders and returned to the ER. Yeah. I'll watch out for my own health, thanks.

[uppityperson]

17. I hope you managed to get to a place that treated you better

glad you went back in to get checked out before you died

[Why Syzygy]

22. I would have been dead

four years before that had it not been for surgery to get the baby out. I resent black and white attitudes that treat anyone who would dare question a doctor or take a "non-approved" remedy as a dumb-f*ck hillbilly. I LIKE surgeons. I owe my life a few times over to them.

[uppityperson]

13. Your complaint is with my grammar and punctuation? bwhahahhahaha

"Actually, I read that sentence about three times due to your misuse of sentence structure and commas."

Poor baby

[Why Syzygy]

16. You said I didn't read it.

:shrug: I read it THREE times. You were wrong! Jump to all the conclusions you want.

[uppityperson]

18. did not

[uppityperson]

19. did too

[uppityperson]

20. mom, he's looking at me

[uppityperson]

21. no, I'm not!

[Why Syzygy]

23. Step away from the spaz juice. You've had enough. nt

[54anickel]

4. Add to that the increasing number of uninsured here in the US and you know even more will put off

getting medical attention. I was sicker than a dog earlier in April but didn't seek out the Urgent Care Clinic until I exhausted the usual OTC remedies in an attempt to relieve the symptoms.

OTC remedies tried +/- $35

Urgent Care visit = $150
Prescriptions = +/- $100

on edit: Was sick almost 3 weeks with no sign of improvement and actually worsening when I went in

[Jeep789]

6. Of course they will. Nobody wants to put out $150 to be told,

"You have the flu go home and rest."

[Why Syzygy]

7. I don't go unless I start feeling

it moving into my chest (bronchitis). The only times I get sick are when I've been under a lot of stress.

The last time I had bronchitis was shortly after my wisdom teeth were cut out and someone at work was giving me a hard time.

[uppityperson]

15. Sent my kid to clinic with severe flu symptoms, had to wait 4 hours to be seen

Kept calling me on my cell phone, feeling worse and worse, having difficulty breathing. I said to go in hall and tell any staff that felt was going to vomit and pass out and would get help. Pissed me off.

OK, now you get to mock my grammar and punctuation and I'm gonna leave off the final period just to bug you

[mzmolly]

25. The local Minute Clinics are great. Just took my dd to one for

bronchitis, no wait and meds on the spot.

[mzmolly]

24. "Mexicans may have been hit by a different, deadlier strain, or the flu may have infected more ..

people."

The article is speculating on various reasons why the Swine Flu appears to be deadlier in Mexico. One of which you note above.

My Mother wondered if perhaps the water in Mexico complicates matters?