Flush Those Toxins! Eh, Not So Fast

[groovedaddy]

DIOXINS. PCBs. Phthalates. Those are the reasons Randall Hansen and his wife, Katharine, embark on an annual detoxification program.

The Hansens, who live in DeLand, Fla., have made a ritual of doing the “Fat Flush Plan” at least once a year “to cleanse our bodies and help break some bad habits,” said Mr. Hansen, 48, president of Quintessential Careers, a career guidance Web site.

The regimen, made famous by the nutritionist Ann Louise Gittleman in a 2001 book, mostly targets the liver, which Ms. Gittleman believes is less able to metabolize fat because of toxins absorbed orally or through the skin. Her plan includes a low-carbohydrate, high-protein menu of about 1,200 calories a day, with no alcohol, caffeine, sugar, grains, bread, starchy vegetables, dairy products, fats or oils (save flaxseed oil). She also recommends a “Long Life Cocktail” of diluted cranberry juice and ground flaxseeds, or a teaspoon of psyllium husks, in the morning and evening; and a mixture of cranberry juice and water throughout the day. Ms. Gittleman sells a Fat Flush kit for $112.50 with herbs and nutrients like dandelion root, milk thistle and Oregon grape root.
>
But many Western doctors question the legitimacy of the regimens and their claims of promoting good health, believing detoxification does little to no good, and is possibly harmful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/fashion/22skin.html?th&emc=th

[trotsky]

1. No surprises there.

If there's something "stuck" in your GI tract, you have far more serious problems than any amount of cranberry juice or Oregon grape root can fix.

[Why Syzygy]

43. There's nothing controversial here..

Her plan includes a low-carbohydrate, high-protein menu of about 1,200 calories a day, with no alcohol, caffeine, sugar, grains, bread, starchy vegetables, dairy products, fats or oils (save flaxseed oil). She also recommends a “Long Life Cocktail” of diluted cranberry juice and ground flaxseeds, or a teaspoon of psyllium husks, in the morning and evening; and a mixture of cranberry juice and water throughout the day.

.. other than she sells a kit! No one has to buy her kit to follow those dietary guidelines. Plenty of medical professionals recommend something other than the perverse "food pyramid" offered by our long suffering, purely patriotic, selfless Government.
That's right. It's the Government's plan or no plan? Is that it?

Personally, I think it might be a bit low in calories. It's true that some people don't tolerate carbohydrates well. They make me apple shaped.

It takes a lot of discipline to follow procedures, no matter WHAT they are, or who "prescribes" them, in order to enhance one's experience of living.
It takes little effort to cast stones.

If this HARMLESS protocol (there are always some doctors who abhor "high protein", others are on the opposite end of the spectrum) improves someone's life, whether by their own perception, or some LAB tests, why would people want to bitch about it?
For all the ranting you all do about "fundies", and look at yourselves!
:MIRROR:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. There is a protocol for detox

One is to test, usually through urine analysis, for toxins such as heavy metals. The detox can take several forms, depending on the individual case, and can include chelation, IVs, herbs, sauna therapy, and more. And after the detox, it is wise to do the lab work again. All this should be done under a doctor's supervision.

[cosmik debris]

3. psyllium husks and hocus pocus

And that's all you get.

In the first place, there are not nearly as many toxins in your body as the con men would have you believe.

Second, the only ingredient that really makes much difference is the psyllium husks which help cleanse your bowel. But you don't have to pay $112 for that, you can get it for $5.95 at Walgreen's.

This whole scam is based on the ability of the scam artist to convince you that your body harbors toxins. But that's not true. Your body has several methods of removing toxins, and if they are not doing the job, YOU NEED A DOCTOR not a dietitian.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HamdenRice]

12. Absolutely and preposterously wrong

Your claim, "the only ingredient that really makes much difference is the psyllium husks," is simply wrong.

Many forms of fiber work in the gut -- not just psyllium. Also, many other foods reduce toxins in the rest of the body. You seem to be confusing digestive toxins with metabolic toxins. It should be obvious to anyone who understands basic biology that psyllium fiber only works in the gut and cannot dilute a metabolic toxin in the blood and tissue, such as urea, but that substances as simple as water can.

So do you see why your claim is wrong?


(Now that the mods have cleaned out all the junk in this thread, maybe you will limit your response to defending or abandoning this self-evidently, preposterously wrong statement.)

[cosmik debris]

13. You are stalking me again.

[HamdenRice]

15. Correcting misleading information in the health forum is not stalking

It's participating in the market place of ideas.

[greyl]

16. Do you recommend people buy the Fat Flush Kit?

www.annlouise.com/fat-flush/fat-flush-kit/the-fat-flush-kit.html

[HamdenRice]

19. Do you believe that water dilutes urea?

If not, then you don't understand one of the most basic facts of biology. If you do, then you are posting complete non sequitur nonsense.

I'll assume it's the latter.

[greyl]

21. Irrelevant. I wouldn't want your comments to be misunderstood, therefore misleading.

The OP looks to be focused on a specific product that is for sale, for a substantial amount of money.
I'm not talking about water.

Your post comes off as if you're defending Gittleman's product. I asked a simple and straightforward question. Why avoid answering it?

[cosmik debris]

22. Isn't it ironic

That his obsessive hatred for me has led him to defend a detox scam?!!!

[greyl]

27. Is it still irony when one has learned to expect it?

I've seen it dozens & dozens of times. Defending the idea that humans evolved from modern apes, that controlled demolitions destroyed the World Trade Center towers on 9/11, that the USA has a moral imperative to consume every other culture on Earth, that it doesn't matter if hundreds of species go extinct every day, that people who are employed in the food service industry are second class citizens, that the physically disabled are deserving of ridicule, that characters in novels are real, that Mel Gibson makes great movies, that ad hominem is a way to attack an idea...

[HamdenRice]

28. Wow, there's basically nothing remotely true in your post

par for the course, sadly. In fact it's so loopy it's hard to know what on earth you are talking about. Is this something your imaginary talking gorilla told you to say?

[greyl]

29. So, it IS irony then?

Everything in my post is true. Funny how you deny it, then edit your post and slip-up to include evidence that what I said is true.

Where did you get the idea characters in novels, such as a "talking gorilla" can actually talk to real people?

[HamdenRice]

31. What does any of this have to do with body toxicity? Nothing, then ...

you are hijacking this thread with irrelevant past debates, which is clearly against DU rules.

If you would like to re-litigate our past debates about your ludicrous theories, which were refuted not only by me but shouted down as utterly absurd by many, many other DUers, I invite you to post an appropriate OP in the Environment Forum or the Economy Forum.

But your bizarre attempt to mischaracterize my factual refutations of your wing nut theories in the terms you have here, is simply misplaced, dishonest and disruptive. If you do post such an OP (and of course you won't, you've always been afraid to do so) it will be in that thread that I would ask for links to back up any of your blatantly false claims.

[greyl]

32. Oh, that's rich.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you bring up imaginary talking gorillas?
There are no imaginary talking gorillas!

Haven't you brought up that straw argument in the middle of totally unrelated discussions in at least 4 different forums at DU after having the simple truth of the matter patiently explained to you more than once?
I'll go with "no longer ironic".

[HamdenRice]

33. Go ahead, post your talking gorilla/environment hypothesis in Environment or better GD

rather than debate it here. Otherwise, you're just showing that you're all misdirection and afraid to debate the substance. I for one am not going to continue here in a thread about body toxins.

[greyl]

34. I don't have a talking gorilla/environment hypothesis. You made that up.

Nor, as you have claimed in the past, am I a spy for the NSA/CIA or live in a little wooden shack.

I'm very proud of you for wanting to stay on topic now.

[HamdenRice]

36. I acknowledge I made a mistake

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're right, to be fair, I should have mentioned the gorilla from whom you purport to get your ideas teaches by talking telepathically.

:silly: :crazy:

:crazy: :silly:

:silly: :crazy:

:crazy: :silly:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=292&topic_id=1261&mesg_id=1261

greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts)

"Teacher seeks pupil. Must have an earnest desire to save the world."

"Seeking a direction for his life, a young man answers the ad and is startled to find that the teacher is a lowland gorilla named Ishmael, a creature uniquely placed to vision anew the human story."
http://www.ishmael.org/Origins/Ishmael/about_ishmael.ht...

...

Seeking a direction for his life, a young man answers the ad and is startled to find that the teacher is a lowland gorilla named Ishmael, a creature uniquely placed to vision anew the human story.

<end quotes>

This is just one cite to one of the many posts you were spamming DU with at the time, saying many preposterous things about the environment that you learned from the teaching (OK not talking) gorilla.

[greyl]

37. Well, shame on me for being proud of you for wanting to stay on topic.

You seem to know much more about devices used in disruptive online discussions than you know about devices used in literature.

[HamdenRice]

24. Because it's an incredibly irrelevant question

I have no opinion on that product. But if the regimen includes water as well as juice (which includes water), then it necessarily dilutes toxins.

I realize that this fact was not whispered to you by an imaginary talking gorilla, but there are other sources of information, you know. For example, the rest of the NY Times article cited in the OP:

While Dr. Lipman says footbaths are “nonsense” and calls skin scrubs “third-level detox,” he does think there is a place for chelation therapy (a way of removing heavy metals from the body, either intravenously or through oral supplements) and colonics (a manner of irrigating the bowels), mainly for patients with chronic digestive problems. He says he is also concerned about exposure to toxins, adding that a typical home has more than 1,000 of them, including cleaning chemicals, formaldehydes and paint.

There is reason for his concern. In its ongoing National Biomonitoring Program, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tests for select environmental chemicals in the urine and blood samples of United States residents. In its 2003-04 study, for example, it found concentrations of chemicals like the sunscreen agent benzophenone-3 and triclosan, a synthetic chemical in personal-care items and other products, in significant percentages of the more than 2,500 people tested.

Epidemiological studies have shown that exposure to high levels of PCBs and dioxins absorbed through food, water and air may contribute to cancers and reproductive damage in animals, but human clinical studies are limited, said Roger A. Clemens, a professor at the University of Southern California School of Pharmacy.

In 2002 the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine and the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, both components of the National Institutes of Health, began a large-scale study to find out if the detoxification treatment EDTA chelation therapy is safe and effective for people age 50 and over with coronary heart disease, a condition for which chelation is often used. The study is expected to be completed in 2010.

Meanwhile, critics say that although detoxification regimens claim to eliminate toxins, most people’s bodies are capable of doing that on their own. Dr. Clemens said that consuming copious amounts of fluids might help eliminate water-soluble chemicals like, say, arsenic, but it does nothing for fat-soluble chemicals, meaning those stored in fat. Colonics and laxatives, so-called purifying agents, can lead to fainting, muscle cramps and dehydration. What’s more, high-volume consumption of liquids can cause hyponatremia, or low sodium in the blood, said Dr. Clemens.

<end quote>

[greyl]

25. Missing a very simple point isn't exactly a display of intelligence.

Your first reply in this thread took issue with a statement made by cosmik debris regarding a commercial product. He wasn't talking about water. Water is free.

[HamdenRice]

26. You're failing to read or understand cd's post

The regimen is explained in the article. The regimen includes fiber and copious amounts of juice and water.

Therefore, an ingredient other than fiber is actively involved.

Unlike you and cd, I don't make judgments about products about which I have no data.

[greyl]

30. No, I suspected I knew what he was talking about, so asked for clarification.

If you read the thread for comprehension, objectively, you might discover what he meant.
Please don't be too hard on me for using the phrase "I suspect", then requesting clarification to dispel or confirm my suspicion.

[cosmik debris]

35. You suspect?

Be careful. I made the statement (on another subject) "I suspect that this is a crock-o-shit," and he said i was not being scientific enough.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=22351&mesg_id=22379

But then he's not stalking you--yet.

[cosmik debris]

17. You are an obsessed stalker.

that is why your previous sub thread got deleted.

[greyl]

14. "The only ingredient" in what? nt

[cosmik debris]

18. cited from the OP

"The regimen, made famous by the nutritionist Ann Louise Gittleman in a 2001 book,"

[greyl]

20. Thanks for the clarification.

I just know it will help!

[trotsky]

23. Hahaha

We can always hope, but our buddy LUUUUUUUVS his strawmen.

[Beregond2]

4. No one could live long

if the body really harbored all the toxins these quacks claim. I'm a massage therapist, and one of the ridiculous claims in my field is that massage releases a lot of toxins into the system, so you should drink a lot of water after, to flush them out. In truth, there is a chenical reaction that happens in response to massage, but it has nothing to do with toxins, which I always make clear to my clients.

[Celebration]

5. what's the chemical reaction? n/t

[uppityperson]

6. I know what you mean, have ranted about that one for yrs.

The reason to drink water after a massage is because most of us are chronically under-hydrated, and you are in a state of mind after a massage that may leave you open to following suggestions. However, saying that "toxins released, flush them rather than reabsorb them" sounds so much more Highly Enlightened and Educated.

I really hate trying to pass myself off as Learned(tm), perhaps why I don't make so much doing massage, not conning anyone. More pragmatic here.

Reactions after a massage can include increased circulation to capillaries and within muscles, lowered blood pressue, release of endorphins, better electro/chemical reactions within muscles (calcium, ATP production issues) perhaps. There are lots of claims, but not a lot scientifically proven though more studies are showing up interesting things.

[uppityperson]

7. Young woman I know personally got very sick doing one of these flushes.

Ended up in the ER, but said if she didn't have so many toxins in her body she wouldn't have gotten so sick. That what made her sick was that the toxins were overwhelming her by being flushed out too fast. Big sigh from me. I am glad she didn't die.

[trotsky]

8. "But it's natural!"

"It can't hurt anything!"
"What harm could it do?"
"Why are you mean science bullies putting down natural cures all the time?"

etc., etc.

[Liberal Veteran]

10. Natural = Always Good = Scam.

Radon is perfectly "natural", but not exactly what one would think of as healthy.

Equating natural with good is 10 to 20 twenty pounds of bullshit trapped in the brain like spackle or paste.

[uppityperson]

11. Exactly, well put.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

40. That happens.

It's called a Herxheimer reaction. Lots of people get them. Does not mean that you shouldn't try to get the gunk out of your body.

[cosmik debris]

41. But you need not pay $112 for a $5 bottle of laxative. n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

42. True. Psillium fiber and juice are cheap.

Sounds like the product in the OP Is a scam.

That is not to say that cleaning your guts out by a juice fast or whatever is necessarily a bad idea.

Some people get all sorts of gunk out of their bods.

[cosmik debris]

44. A diet high in fruits, vegetables, nuts and whole grains

will save you the trouble of buying laxatives.

The con men trying to push detox products and procedures have little or no science behind their claims.

[fadedrose]

38. "Search" led me here....

I think it was a bum steer.

All there is in this thread is fighting. I wanted to ask if anyone among you wiser than me people knew the effectiveness or lack of it in using flaxseed oil to reduce cholesterol.

Put "flaxseed oil" in the search box...

Hi Debris, Hi Uppity...

[cosmik debris]

39. I'd suggest that you start your own thread for that question.

This is a good place for it. Just don't ask for medical advice, that's against the rules.