Mumps Outbreak related to...well, you know.

[cosmik debris]

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=8994b1f9-15d0-46cd-9ef1-3bfaf0ee1835

CHILLIWACK, B.C. - With the number of confirmed and suspected mumps cases in the Fraser Valley nearing 200, public health officials worry the disease will spread throughout the rest of the Lower Mainland.

Since the outbreak began in Chilliwack in February, cases have been spreading rapidly through the Fraser Valley, fuelled by a high rate of transmission among vaccine objectors from unnamed Christian fundamentalist groups that are against vaccines of all kinds.

About half of the 190 confirmed and suspected cases are individuals who have never been immunized, either on religious or philosophical grounds, said Dr. Elizabeth Brodkin.

More at the link.

[lapfog_1]

1. I'm not against vaccination

however, I'm also open examining how vaccines are made and what are the potential risks.

If you think that corporations wouldn't use a slightly more risky method to produce their vaccines or to prolong the shelf life of some vaccines that results in lower costs to them, you would be naive.

[cosmik debris]

2. It's a shame you don't want to respond to the OP.

This is not a thread about how terrible the drug companies are.

If that is what you wish to discuss, please start your own thread.

Thank you.

[lapfog_1]

3. Wow, not surprised you don't have more responses

given your knee jerk (emphasis on jerk) reaction to my reply.

[cosmik debris]

4. I responded politely to your attempted hijack

If you are not interested in polite discussion, There is no point in continuing this conversation..

[Orrex]

53. Ladies and gentlemen, may I present yet another case of

I'm only sorry that I didn't spot it and identify it yesterday.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

56. you broke rules 1 and 2 in the health forum - you sir/madame, are insubordinate!

# 1, you said you were "open" to examining how vaccines are made and what the potential risks are.

# 2. you expressed skepticism with corporations.

Both violations can get you labeled as rude, insubordinate, puritanical,unscientific, close minded, and lacking of proper credentials to post in DU's "Health" forum.

Anyone who doesn't lavish praise on any and all vaccines is treated as a heretic, as being every bit as crazy as those who dared say the world was not flat!




Even the shiniest of cat turds could get lost in the intellectual darkness of this forum.

[xchrom]

5. recommend

[mhatrw]

6. Who did the first one this season in BC to get the mumps catch it from?

I'm just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.

Why can some infectious diseases like small pox and polio get completely eliminated while others such as mumps and measles always recur every year in a small number of individuals in disparate regions? Are these diseases coming in from other countries or are there other explanations?

[cosmik debris]

7. You should have read the article.

And by the way, People who teach writing don't use obtuse sentence structure like that without punctuation. And they certainly wouldn't leave a dangling preposition.

If you did teach writing, it must have been on a grade school level, and you must have been a second rate teacher.

Since I never saw that claim that you were a teacher, I will assume you never said it. All the evidence indicates that it could not possibly be true.

[HamdenRice]

9. Wrong again. Winston Churchill: "bloody nonsense up with which ...

You may have heard of the famous story about Winston Churchill. Although told in various versions, the gist of it is that an aid went through one of his speeches or memos correcting it so that none of his sentences ended in prepositions.

Churchill wrote angrily: "This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I shall not put," showing thereby how preposterous the alleged rule was in common English.

The novelist, Kingsley Amis, presciently perhaps, called the alleged and false rule, "one of those fancied prohibitions dear to ignorant slobs."

It is a myth that it is grammatically incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition. Many such "rules," such as the false rule against split infinitives, came from the attempt to import Latin grammar into English; but English is still a very Germanic language and ending sentences with prepositions is perfectly fine.

Once again ignorance is paraded as self-righteous enlightenment.

[cosmik debris]

10. Ah yes, the false choice argument with a side order of ad hom.

If the only two choices you can think of are dangling prepositions or awkward sentence structure, then you are not a very good writer.

Mr. Churchill could have quite easily said that the nonsense was intolerable, but he and you, have chosen to make the false choice argument.

And thanks for the insults. Every time you verbally assault me without provocation, you show that you are not only closed minded, but bitterly vindictive as well. Nice going!

[HamdenRice]

You stated the preposition rule as a true rule

That rule is false. It's not a false choice argument. It's simply a statement of fact -- that you were wrong.

No insult was intended. Churchill was making fun of his aid, and Amis was aiming his barb at pretentious people in general.

The rule parades itself as knowledge but is actually an example of ignorance.

There was nothing unclear in the sentence you decided to pedantically criticize.

Btw, you really shouldn't throw accusations of ad hom around because the irony will make our heads explode.

[cosmik debris]

12. LOL! "ignorance is paraded as self-righteous enlightenment"

Nope, no ad hom there. :rofl:

You present only two choices without consideration for other possibilities. That is indeed a false choice argument. Mr. Churchill used it for dramatic effect. You use it for spite. But it is still a false choice argument.

Oh, and by the way, we have been through this before. YOU DON"T MAKE THE RULES.

I know how that can be a bitter disappointment to you, but that's the fact.

Keep digging.

[HamdenRice]

14. So yes or no? Is the preposition rule a rule or a fake rule?

Were you wrong or right?

I think it's obvious you were wrong.

[cosmik debris]

15. And I think it is obvious that you are stalking me.

And I find it quite flattering that I am such an important figure in your life that you would devote so much effort in harassing me.

[mhatrw]

17. You constantly project your own faults onto others.

Why is it so hard to just admit that you were wrong?

[cosmik debris]

18. .

[HamdenRice]

19. Trust me, no one would every stalk you

You're not interesting enough. Who on earth (or on DU) would want to provoke any conversation or interaction with you? You've never written anything interesting or informative.

Just insults and invective.

So no, you can be assured no one is stalking you.

[cosmik debris]

31. I'm flattered that you are still making me such an important part

of your life.

You say you are not stalking me but your actions betray your words.

[HamdenRice]

11. delete dupe nt

[mhatrw]

16. The "preposition rule" is bullshit, but I should have used "whom."

If you wish to turn this forum into a grammar correcting competition, I assure you that you will lose that battle as well.

[HamdenRice]

13. The answer to this question might have created some common ground on this forum

Basically, small pox was eradicated because the world -- its governments, the UN and health institutions -- made a commitment to universal vaccination and eradication.

The global public was terrified of small pox, and largely complied.

Many people think that the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) diseases are not serious, and they weigh the cost/benefit to themselves of innoculation differently. Hence the diseases persist.



Polio has been largely eradicated from North America, but it persists in pockets of poor countries. Yet, it is feared and hated much more than MMR. This shows why universal vaccination of some diseases is necessary; otherwise there will always be well springs for their resurgence. The world community has adopted polio eradication as a formal goal.

To eradicate polio would require wealthy disease free countries to help poor countries achieve universal vaccination. New cases in North America of serious diseases that have been eradicated in North America are usually the result of travel or immigration -- hence the need for international cooperation across the poverty line.

Your good question might have created some common ground and discussion if it hadn't been greeted with an ad hominem attack and a pedantic but incorrect grammar lesson.

[Tumbulu]

51. Good question

Is it the nature of these viruses - are they mutating more often? Would the immunity be better if the vaccines were given separately? or at a different age?

Only 50% of the people getting mumps are un vaccinated the article states.50% were partially or completely vaccinated. So, why and what should be done about it. Why get vaccinated if it does not produce an effective immune response?

And please please no one pick on my writing skills or lack thereof.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

57. Notice when you ask a reasonable question that the reply is a nasty personal attack?

Its caused by the some missing the ever so popular and profitable "anti hate" vaccine.

[chicagomd]

8. Bump

for great justice.

[mhatrw]

20. "When you get your 'science' from newspapers, you end up with

astounding ignorance."

Who once said that?

[cosmik debris]

21. This is not science, this is news.

I have made no claims about the science of mumps or the mumps vaccine.

It is a real shame you couldn't see that for all the bile in your eyes.

By the way, did you ever prove your statement about the vaccine being more dangerous than cancer?

Do you have any more made up facts to support your theory?

:rofl:

[mhatrw]

22. You made a claim that this outbreak was related to people foregoing vaccinations.

Now prove your claim. The "burden of proof" is on you. Or don't you know what that means?

[cosmik debris]

23. I made no such claim.

But since you say I did, I'm sure you can cut and paste the quote from me that makes that claim.

Cite your references. Give me a link to where you found the quote from me that makes that claim.

(this is gonna be fun to watch)

[HamdenRice]

25. "related to...well, you know."

Your OP says the outbreak was related to "related to...well, you know." The article then goes on to discuss the outbreak and people who forgo vaccinations.

Either you are not being truthful or your attempts at innuendo are hopelessly ineffectual.

So what was the "you know" the outbreak was related to if not about people who forgo immunization?

Please try to be honest for a change.

[cosmik debris]

27. You do love that false choice fallacy. n/t

[HamdenRice]

28. Busted!

Big time!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cosmik debris]

29. Well, that's your SOP declare victory even when you haven't won

You presented a false choice fallacy and you pretend that it is a victory. But it is just a repeat of your bad logic.

You never learn any new tricks. We have already seen that one, and it doesn't work.

[HamdenRice]

38. Fare thee well ...

black knight! I knew thou wouldst appear at any minute!

[cosmik debris]

39. Honestly, you are my favorite stalker.

Your love is all that keeps me going.:loveya:

[beam me up scottie]

35. How does that that compare to your "back of the envelope" research?

Still waiting for you to prove your claim that vaccines do more harm than good.

[mhatrw]

24. See the title of this thread.

To what were you referring? Nothing?

[cosmik debris]

26. I left that blank so that you could fill in your prejudice there.

That seems to have worked well.

[mhatrw]

30. So your defense is that your posts are always wholly without substance?

It's a great game you and bmus have going here.

If anyone says actually says anything of substance, you get to parrot off your "prove your claim" shtick in stereo.

And since neither of you ever posts anything of substance, nobody gets to pull the same trick on you!

Hooray for sophistry and disruption!

[cosmik debris]

32. You've built a might big straw man there

I hope it doesn't fall on you. That could hurt.

[xchrom]

33. kick

[cosmik debris]

34. Thanks, It is a shame that my stalkers want to personalize this

But the OP stands on its own merit.

[beam me up scottie]

36. They're hoping the smoke they're blowing will distract us from asking for proof of their claims.

Doesn't seem to be working, though.

[cosmik debris]

37. We caught her TWICE using made up facts,

And the third catch is just waiting for verification.

Sometimes a tantrum is the last resort. I hope so.

[xchrom]

40. it's horrifying and bad medical advice she is spreading.

and it shouldn't be allowed -- and the making shit up just underlines that fact.

[xchrom]

41. this speaks volumes for the kind of person this is.

 i was the primary care taker for a woman friend who had her asshole radiated TWICE.
siply nothing more grotesque -- and this from someone who cared for and buried plenty of friends who died from hiv.
i'm hereto tell the anti-vax gardasil folks are just the anti-gay phelps peeps.
period and end of conversation.


the response:

mhatrw (1000+ posts) Tue Aug-26-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Sorry to hear that she did that to you. n/t






http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=43009&mesg_id=43665

[cosmik debris]

42. It makes me wonder if

Even global warming could melt that heart.

[xchrom]

45. probably doesn't believe in global warming.

somebody's disguised idea of a profit.

[beam me up scottie]

43. And they have the nerve to ask why it pisses us off.

Same talking points, same message: if you don't abstain or have the "proper" kind of sex you don't deserve a vaccine or a cure.

[xchrom]

44. it's nuts and hateful is what it is. nt

[cosmik debris]

46. That is putting it mildly. n/t

[HamdenRice]

47. like that you can't end a sentence with a preposition?

or any of the many other falsehoods you've propogated?

Pot.

Kettle.

Black.

[cosmik debris]

48. Aw, you're just bitter because nobody likes you

But I still like you, You're my favorite stalker.:loveya:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

58. its the lack of vaccination causing this

there's a shortage cause of all the money spent on the
"uh you know" vaccine - not enough money left to pay for the anti hating vaccine.

[xchrom]

49. kick

[Hannah Bell]

50. a news report. meaningless, per you. why did you post it?

[cosmik debris]

52. Thanks for kicking my thread n/t

[xchrom]

54. kick

[Dorian Gray]

55. How the hell did this thread devolve into a grammar argument?

I think it's foolish not to get vaccines, and I don't understand what Christianity has to do with it. Apparently, it's Christian fundamentalist groups who are doing it. It may be the Shakers/Amish groups that populate different enclaves in Canada. And I don't think they should be forced to get the vaccines. But I think it's irresponsible for people not to get their children innoculated, no matter the reason. Just my opinion.