Veterinary Studies doc. vaccines common cause of neurological,immune, A I conditions and cancer

[philb]

Veterinary Studies document vaccines common cause of neurological, immune, autoimmune conditions and cancer in pets

A team at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine conducted several studies (1,2)
1 The vaccinated, but not the non-vaccinated, dogs in the Purdue studies developed autoantibodies to many of their own biochemicals, including fibronectin, laminin, DNA, albumin, cytochrome C, cardiolipin and collagen. 9981. “Effects of Vaccination on the Endocrine and Immune Systems of Dogs, Phase II", Purdue University, November 1,1999, at http://www.homestead.com/vonhapsburg/haywardstudyonvaccines.html.
2. See www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/gdhstudy.htm.

“Our ongoing studies of dogs show that following routine vaccination, there is a significant rise in the level of antibodies dogs produce against their own tissues. Some of these antibodies have been shown to target the thyroid gland, connective tissue such as that found in the valves of the heart, red blood cells, DNA, etc
http://www.afghanhoundreview.com/Vaccine.html
20. Canine Health Concern, study of health of 4000 dogs and survey of owners, 1997


American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force found vaccines commonly cause cancer at vaccination site.(3,4) In America, in an attempt to mitigate the problem, they’re vaccinating cats in the tail or leg so they can amputate when cancer appears.
In August 2003, the Journal of Veterinary Medicine carried an Italian study which showed that dogs also develop vaccine-induced cancers at their injection sites.(5) We already know that vaccine-site cancer is a possible sequel to human vaccines, too, since the Salk polio vaccine was said to carry a monkey retrovirus (from cultivating the vaccine on monkey organs) that produces inheritable cancer. The monkey retrovirus SV40 keeps turning up in human cancer sites.

3. See http://www.avma.org/vafstf/default.asp.
4. Veterinary Products Committee (VPC) Working Group on Feline and Canine Vaccination, DEFRA, May 2001.
5. JVM Series A 50(6):286-291, August 2003.

It is also widely acknowledged that vaccines can cause a fast-acting, usually fatal, disease called autoimmune haemolytic anaemia (AIHA). Merck, itself a multinational vaccine manufacturer, states in The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy that autoimmune haemolytic anaemia may be caused by modified live-virus vaccines, as do Tizard’s Veterinary Immunology (4th edition) and the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine.(6) The British Government’s Working Group, despite being staffed by vaccine-industry consultants who say they are independent, also acknowledged this fact.

6. Duval, D. and Giger,U. (1996). “Vaccine-Associated Immune-Mediated Hemolytic Anemia in the Dog", Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine 10:290-295.


Studies in NEJM, Merck Mannual(7) and veterinary studies and surveys (8,20) document that vaccines cause arthritic conditions.

7. New England Journal of Medicine, vol.313,1985. See also Clin Exp Rheumatol 20(6):767-71, Nov-Dec 2002.
8. Am Coll Vet Intern Med 14:381,2000. http://www.afghanhoundreview.com/Vaccine.html
20. Canine Health Concern, study of health of 4000 dogs and survey of owners, 1997

A large survey of dog owners found the majority of dogs suffer from ADHD, epilepsy, and/or anxiety for the period following vaccination(20). Other studies have supported this(10,etc.)

20. Canine Health Concern, study of health of 4000 dogs and survey of owners, 1997
10. Wolf Clan magazine, April/May 1995


Vaccines Stimulate an Inflammatory Response which is a factor in many chronic conditions (14,15). Many veterinarians trace the present problems with allergic and immunologic diseases to the introduction of MLV vaccines...” (9) Christina Chambreau, DVM: “Routine vaccinations are probably the worst thing that we do for our animals. They cause all types of illnesses, but not directly to where we would relate them definitely to be caused by the vaccine.” (10) Martin Goldstein, DVM: “I think that vaccines...are leading killers of dogs and cats in America today.”(11)

9. Dodds, Jean W.,DVM, “Immune System and Disease Resistance", at http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm.
10. Wolf Clan magazine, April/May 1995.
11. Goldstein, Martin, The Nature of Animal Healing, Borzoi/Alfred A. Knopf, Inc., 1999
14. Journal of Inflammation 1:3,2004, at http://www.journal-inflammation.com content/1/1/3.
15. Klingborg, D.J., Hustead, D.R. and Curry-Galvin, E. et al., “AVMA Council on Biologic and Therapeutic Agents’ report on cat and dog vaccines", Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 221(10):1401-1407, November 15,2002,
http://www.avma.org/policies/vaccination.htm.

Inflammation is a major major in many chronic conditions such as Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, rheumatoid arthritis, cancer. (14) Not only are annual boosters unnecessary, but they subject the pet to potential risks such as neurological, immune, and autoimmune conditions (15,17-19)
17. Schultz, R.D., “Current and future canine and feline vaccination programs", Vet Med 93:233-254,1998.
18. Schultz, R.D., Ford, R.B., Olsen, J. and Scott, P., “Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices", Vet Med 97:1-13, 2002 (insert).
19. Twark, L. and Dodds, W.J., “Clinical application of serum parvovirus and distemper virus antibody liters for determining revaccination strategies in healthy dogs", J Am Vet Med Assoc 217:1021-1024,2000. **********


http://www.afghanhoundreview.com/Vaccine.html

[kestrel91316]

1. Vaccines do NOT "commonly" cause cancer at the vaccination site.

I have been in practice 26 years come May (17 years in a feline practice) and have seen exactly TWO cases of vaccine-associated sarcoma (both cats are still alive, BTW, one of them 8 years later). It is now known that adjuvant in the vaccine is likely responsible for the chronic inflammation that leads to the cancer. I use exclusively adjuvant-free vaccines.

I have seen orders of magnitude more cases of FATAL infectious disease that could have been prevented entirely by appropriate vaccinations than I will ever see VSAs, but nobody ever wants to talk about THAT inconvenient little truth. Rabies is out there waiting for us to slip up, and it's a killer. Ditto for panleukopenia and Feline Leukemia virus. Respiratory viruses are a major cause of severe and often chronic illness.

Your post is a major disservice to pets and their owners, in that it causes them to irrationally fear something which is not to be feared. It also deters them from coming in for routine exams prior to illness, which give us our best chance at preventing noninfectious diseases. Furthermore, your post serves to make people fear and hate veterinarians as ignorant, greedy charlatans, which we most certainly are not. Shame on you.

FYI, I vaccinate all my personal kitties annually and have NO fear about doing so. I know what suffering can happen when vaccinations lapse, and it can be very ugly.

You might want to also note that none of this is news. We have known about VSAs for YEARS. They were first reported in 1991, when the connection was made between this type of cancer and certain brands of FeLV and rabies vaccines. Check out the old dating on your articles cited.

VSAs are why Merial has come out with their line of cat vaccines that have no adjuvants. These are the preferred vaccines in cats now, though many veterinarians use other brands still.

I have seen at least a dozen cases of fibrosarcoma that were clearly related to penetrating trauma and suspected foreign body irritation based on their location in front paws. Going outdoors where they can step on thorns and such is a FAR greater cancer risk to cats than vaccination, but nobody wants to talk about that, either.

[philb]

3. VAFSTF: increase in the incidence of sarcoma formation at commonly used feline vaccine sites

For the last several years, veterinarians have noticed an increase in the incidence of sarcoma formation at commonly used feline vaccine sites. The Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force (VAFSTF), formed to address this evolving and important issue, consists of representatives from the American Animal Hospital Association, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Veterinary Cancer Society, the American Association of Feline Practitioners, the Animal Health Institute, and the Cornell Feline Health Center.

The task force has made initial vaccine-site recommendations in concert with the American Association of Feline Practitioners (Feline Sarcoma Task Force Meets. J.Amer.Vet.Med.Assn. 210, 310-311). In short, the task force recommends that vaccines containing rabies antigen be given as distally as possible in the right rear limb, vaccines containing feline leukemia virus antigen (unless containing rabies antigen as well) be given as distally as possible in the left rear limb, and vaccines containing any other antigens except rabies or feline leukemia virus be given on the right shoulder, being careful to avoid the midline or interscapular space.

http://www.avma.org/vafstf/sitercmnd.asp

[kestrel91316]

5. An excerpt from the 2006 AAFP Feline Vaccination Guidelines:

Vaccine-associated sarcomas--Although regarded as rare (estimated to be approx 1 to 2 cases/10,000 vaccinated cats201,202), vaccine-associated sarcomas are arguably the most serious vaccine adverse events reported in cats. The Vaccine-Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force was formed in 1996 to address the issue203; although no longer seeking funding or financially supporting research, The Task Force continues to provide information to cat owners and veterinarians. For more information about vaccine-associated sarcomas, the reader is referred to extensive reviews published elsewhere.204-206

The precise cause of vaccine-associated sarcomas is not currently known. Vaccine-associated sarcomas were recognized in 1991 following the introduction of an aluminum adjuvanted FeLV vaccine and the transition from modified-live rabies virus vaccines to adjuvanted killed rabies virus vaccines in the mid 1980s. In 1993, epidemiologic evidence of a causal association between vaccination with aluminum adjuvanted rabies virus and FeLV vaccines was established,201 and authors of several studies207-209 have implicated vaccine adjuvant-induced inflammation at the injection site as the inciting cause. Chronic inflammation and wound healing can contribute to oncogenesis in many mammalian species, and by some unknown mechanism, inflammation induced by leakage of lens material after trauma can lead to development of ocular sarcomas in cats.210

________________

The enemy is not the vaccine per se, it is the chronic inflammation that some vaccine preparations set up. Hence the opposition to adjuvanted vaccines, which set up unnecessary chronic inflammation.

_______________

BTW, you are citing an OLD document there, from the VAFSTF. They have been disbanded.

[varkam]

14. Old citations are Dr. Google's speciality, didn't you know? eom

[philb]

31. Its true I do google but also search National Library of Medicine Medline

and most of my references are from peer-reviewed studies abstracted in Medline or from Gov't agencies, as anyone can confirm. though some in the original post were from Veterinary Task Forces investingating these conditions.

But I always cite the references and look at most articles to see if they appear credible before citing them.
I also try to look at articles others cite that they think contradict my postings and have found no credible evidence so far that contradict my main conclusions, which I believe I've cited full credible evidence that supports them. I can provide evidence that we've read and analyzed thousands of studies over a period of years, and I don't think that there is anyone who could find signif. problems with our analyses. But that goes a bit afield from this topic.

Most of our research has been on exposure levels and effects of mercury from dental amaglams, which have been documented to be the largest source of mercury in most adults who have mercury amalgam fillings, on average 10 times more than those without, according to thousands of medical lab tests, etc. - due to the high mercury releases from "modern" high copper amalgam fillngs that cause high levels of mercury to be excreted into sewers by those with such, approx. 30 micrograms per day, hugely over gov't health guidelines and putting high levels of mercury into water bodies, fish, sludge, emissions.
www.flcv.com/damspr1.html
www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html

I'm still willing to look at evidence that what I post is inaccurate, but still have not seen such. I know there could not be such since we have many years of combined research and clinical experience, including trying to look at everything posted in NIH National Library of Medicine Medline.
We have reviews of thousands of such articles we and others (including the few by opponents) have supplied to FDA docket on URLs if anyone wants to review the reviews.

[cosmik debris]

49. Just the same old shit

Pathetic, that's all.

[Warpy]

50. Dangerous shit if fools try to apply it to humans

and even if it should pan out (which it shows absolutely no sign of doing so, or 100% of us would develop cancer in our 40s or so), a value judgment would need to be made between risking a child's death before the age of five versus vaccinations that would allow him/her to live long enough to grow up, have children, and watch those children grow up.

The OP is utter rubbish. I did have two continually vaccinated cats die of neoplasm, but both were in extreme old age, over 17. If that's how long it takes for a feline vaccination induced neoplasm to manifest, well goody for it. At that point, the kitty is going to die of something, and a relatively quick death from cancer beats the hell out of a slow one from diabetes and attendant kidney disease.

[cosmik debris]

51. But he has such an emotional investment in being right

That he can't see how foolishly dangerous his position is.

It's like he is in love with his theory and he is afraid to admit that it is cheating on him.

:rofl:

[Warpy]

52. A little battered spouse syndrome?

"Yeah, I keep getting beaten up, but that period between beatings, before rational people tell me how full of shit I am is just SO GOOD!"

[cosmik debris]

53. That works,

But I was thinking of the person who falls in love with a habitual philanderer. They just can't see that they are not the only one.

philb has been cuckolded by his theory so many times that a moose would be jealous of his antlers! But he keeps going back because love has blinded him to the truth that he married a prostitute.

Meanwhile, all his friends giggle at him behind his back and no one wants to be the one to tell him that they slept with that theory and passed it around for everyone to enjoy. And then moved on.

[TZ]

66. Nobody light a match here!

The methane coming out from someones ass/brain might blow up the whole joint!!!:rofl:

[philb]

73. More vaccine reactions reported in small dogs and young animals than older-ML study

Vaccine safety in the neonatal period.
Day MJ. J Comp Pathol. 2007 Jul;137 Suppl 1:S51-6. Epub 2007 Jun 11

Results: It would seem that there is a higher prevalence of suspected adverse reactions (SARs) following vaccination in the neonatal period than in adult animals. The range of reported adverse reactions in neonates is broad, and includes: suspected lack of efficacy, mild non-specific and transient illness post-vaccination, and the development of hypersensitivity or autoimmune reactions. The most common reactions in both species are the various clinical manifestations of type I hypersensitivity. That such reactions are most prevalent in small breed dogs, that also make the highest serological responses to vaccination, suggests a case for the formulation of low-dose products for miniature breeds. At least a proportion of neonatal vaccine SARs are related to the use of potent immunological adjuvants in certain products. A recent study in neonatal kittens has confirmed that non-adjuvanted vaccine induces significantly less local vaccine site inflammation than comparable adjuvanted products.
*************
There is a lot of documentation in the Medical Literature that a signif. percentage of people are immune reactive to thimerosal, and likewise to aluminum. www.melisa.org and lots of Patch test data by allergy docs in the literature.
These are likely to get reactions when vaccinated with high level of something they are immune reactive to; in humans such exposures have been documented to cause autoimmune conditions and other lesser inflammatory conditions. (I've previosuly posted doc.)

But though its harder to assess conditions in animals since they cant talk and aren't commonly tested like infants,
it is known that animals are also subject to immune reactions to immune reactive substance like mercury and aluminum.

[cosmik debris]

75. What a HOOT!

"...its harder to assess conditions in animals since they cant talk..."

But they are perfect candidates for Emotional Freedom Therapy. :rofl:


The more you post the funnier you get.

[lizerdbits]

76. ...

[philb]

4. When did mercury thimerosal get taken out of animal vaccines?

What level of mercury thimerosal is found in animal vaccines?

[kestrel91316]

6. I have no idea. The subject has never come up to my knowledge.

Do you have some sort of evidence that animals are being harmed by mercury in vaccines??

My guess is that the only animal vaccines with mercury (which is put there as a preservative) are the ones in the multi-dose "tanks". Merial has a 3-year adjuvanted rabies in a tank that might have mercury? I haven't used that one in over ten years due to the concerns about its possible link to VSAs. Livestock vaccines also typically come in tanks. Everything I use is lyophilized (freeze-dried) single-dose vials where there would be no rationale for mercury use.

But again, what disease problems are occuring in animals that can be attributed to mercury toxicity? Enquiring minds want to know.

[lizerdbits]

8. Evidence? Philb?

:rofl:

[philb]

16. Everything has references sited, including the top researchers in their field & Gov't sources

and National Cancer Institute sources

You are the one who never seems to have any real evidence- so you have to resort to sillyness

more:
Vaccines: What CDC Documents and Science Reveal, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny

Review: I have a degree in Microbiology and I did vaccine research as an undergraduate student. That said, I believed, as did Dr. Tenpenny, the common "truths" about vaccine efficacy. There are 3 points that shake the pillars of common beliefs about vaccines: (1) many of the diseases that vaccines were produced to eliminate were already dying out before the vaccine was widely used; therefore, the diseases were eradicated by something other than the vaccines. That something was quarantine. (2) The emergence of diseases among a vaccinated population; the very thing the vaccine is designed to prevent. (3) Virus reproduction occur only inside of cells. In order for an antibody to destroy or prevent a virus from reproducing, it must be able to "get" inside a cell. The method used to introduce the infectious agent, known as an antigen, into a living body is not the way the natural infection enters a body. The nature of the antibody response is dependent upon the portal of entry: the body will respond differently to an infectious agent injected into a muscle, the usual method of vaccination, than it will when it enters through the nose or bronchial tubes, the method flu and respiratory infections use.
This theoretical discussion pales next to this final point. The preservatives used by vaccine production are worse than the disease they are designed to treat. I would not allow my child to receive any vaccine that contained mercury at any level. With the media hysteria over Bird Flu and smallpox a while back, I would strongly suggest no one rely on advise from any source that stands to gain financially or politically from it's acceptance. Educate yourself on the facts. Make your decision based on science, not fear.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaccines-What-Documents-Science-Reveal/dp/B0007QQW5O



Int J Cancer. 2006 Jan 15;118(2):498-504
Schüler F, Dölken SC, Hirt C, Dölken MT, Mentel R, Gürtler LG, Dölken G.
Clinic for Internal Medicine C, Hematology/Oncology, University Greifswald, Greifswald, Germany. [e-mail]
DNA sequences coding for simian virus 40 (SV40) large T antigen have been detected at different frequencies in human non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (NHL) by PCR techniques as well as immunohistochemistry. A highly sensitive quantitative real-time PCR specific for a sequence of SV40 large T antigen was established to test whether SV40 DNA is present in malignant lymphomas of German patients. Thirty-three lymph node samples obtained from 27 patients with NHL and 6 patients with Hodgkin's disease (HD) were tested in addition to 48 samples of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMNC) from patients with NHL containing between 0.1% and >90% circulating lymphoma cells determined by PCR. Fourteen lymph nodes obtained from patients with other diseases than malignant lymphomas and 47 PBMNC samples from healthy volunteers served as controls. All samples from patients with malignant lymphomas and all controls were negative for SV40 DNA by quantitative real-time. In contrast, EBV-DNA could be detected in 29 of 46 DNA preparations isolated from lymph nodes (63%) and in 20 of 47 DNA preparations from PBMNC. EBV-positive samples contained between 5 and 80,000 EBV copies per 100,000 cells. Our results do not support the hypothesis that SV40 plays a major role in the etiology of malignant lymphomas and, in addition, they exclude a clonal SV 40 infection of malignant lymphoma cells in all samples investigated

[cosmik debris]

20. Bullshit! You didn't even read your own citations.

You cite one source with no credentials at all except that she is a sales person for her own brand of natural cures.

There is no need to find sources that refute yours because your own sources refute you as I have posted in this thread.

Do you even bother to read the stuff you copy and paste? It really makes you look silly when your own sources refute you wacky positions.

[philb]

25. to the contrary I've cited peer-reviewed studies, Gov't agencies, NCI, top medical researchers, etc.

Are you not reading the posts?
for example I cited the Dept. Head of the Baylor Medical School, other top researchers in their fields including Dr. Garth Nicholson, Gov't Agency researchers, etc. National Cancer Institute, NEJM, JAMA, etc.

Do you have a problem with such sources?

[cosmik debris]

30. I checked out this source

http://www.afghanhoundreview.com/Vaccine.html

This author has absolutely no medical or veterinarian credentials at all.

ZERO.

She is a shill for her own products. Just a sales person, nothing more.

[philb]

40. She's done a lot of research and cites real credible references or vets or vet task force for everyt

everything. You will note that nothing I posted depends on her opinion; however its clear that lots of Veterinarians think she and her books are credible. Many thousands have read her books and reviews are good.
I don't know or care what degrees she has, though she obviously is well educated and knowledgable.

[cosmik debris]

42. She is a shill for bogus products.

She has no credentials.

Why don't you understand even the simplest concepts: NO CREDENTIALS.

Is that so hard? or ar you that simple?

[TZ]

67. But you aren't citing those sites. At all.

I have friends at NCI, NIH, NIAID, Johns Hopkins. AND I worked with a world expert in vaccines. You cut n paste from medical sites to make things appear to fit your agenda. NO RESPECTABLE SCIENCTIFIC FOUNDATION SUPPORTS YOUR WORK. You don't even understand what an antibody is, or what immunology is.
Baby babble is what you post GA GA GOO GOO and you try to make it sound like the most well spoken latin. Well anybody with science knowledge (of which you have NONE) knows it for the garbage it is.
And then you go WAAAAAHHH! I have cited this dat and the other idiotic INCLUDING RW sources.

[lizerdbits]

21. The reason we've resorted to silliness

Is that you continue to spam. There's no point arguing with you, you just cut and paste more bullshit.

[medeak]

56. since you are a vet it would be terrific

if you got in touch with this propressive thinking vet and shared your feelings and hers to you.
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-RESUME.HTM

best

[DemExpat]

82. Many vets here are turning to protocols more in line with hers.

:thumbsup:

DemEx

[China_cat]

78. This guy has a bug up his butt about all vaccines.

He'd rather see us go back to the days of diphtheria epidemics, polio at 50,000 new cases per year and pets living a life that's about 5 years long on average. (We've already got the whooping cough back because of people like him)

Nothing anybody says to him will get through. Vaccines to him are what the name Clinton is to republicans.

[cosmik debris]

2. Oh No! Monkey virus!

A quote from your own source.

Disturbing as this issue may be, there is great concern that cat owners, attempting to keep their cats from harm, may forego vaccination entirely. The result? Though well intentioned, these owners may be placing their cats at far greater risk of acquiring a fatal infection than any risk the vaccine poses. And in the case of rabies, human health is at risk as well.

http://www.avma.org/vafstf/ownbroch.asp

Of course that makes me wonder if you even bother to read your own citations or do you just cut and paste?

Footnote #8 is NOT what it seems. It is an article written by a NON-veterinarian who has no scientific credentials but does run a web site selling "natural cures"--in other words, a quack out to make money off of the gullibility of fools!

[kestrel91316]

7. Thank you for pointing this out.

I fight this battle EVERY DAY. We know full well how very dangerous it is to NOT get vaccines, and yet people obsess over the fact that VERY RARE complications of vaccination happen.

Sheesh.

Oh, well. I should be happy. Less vaccinations means more seriously ill animals and that means more income for me treating the unnecessarily sick. But why am I not happy about that?

[cosmik debris]

9. The more I read the funnier it gets.

An excerpt from footnote #14

...the paper concludes that blockade of the AT1 receptor in synergy with cancer vaccines and anti-inflammatory agents should offer a therapy to regress most, if not all, solid tumors.

In other words, what he is saying is EVUL! may actually cause remission of the tumor.

http://www.journal-inflammation.com/content/1/1/3/abstract

philb has finally flipped his lid!

[philb]

13. Medical researchers agree: Monkey Virus SV40 in signif. % of cancer tumors

Summary of reviews of studies of SV40 in human cancers
http://www.lymphomation.org/aboutNHL.htm

Some Key Details & Reports:
SV40 usually infects rhesus monkeys.

"SV40 is a known carcinogen. It targets the lung's mesothelial cells, brain cells, bone cells and blood cells, producing a protein that knocks out two human tumor-suppressor genes, p53 and Rb. There is no reliable blood test for SV40 exposure." - WSJ 7-19-02

In animal models, the neoplasias induced by SV40 included primary brain cancers, malignant mesotheliomas, bone tumors and system lymphomas." - Vilchez, et al. Simian Virus 40 in Human Cancers, June 2003, The American Journal of Medicine, Vol 114

SIMIAN VIRUS 40 (SV40): A POSSIBLE HUMAN POLYOMAVIRUS WORKSHOP - Tuesday, January 28, 1997 - FDA.gov

Between 1955 and 1963 a polio vaccine contaminated with SV40 was accidentally given to millions of people. In the USA, vaccine lots received by about 20 states are estimated to have contained 0•75-0•97 mL contaminated vaccine per child, lots from about 15 states were thought to have contained 0•01-0•74 ml contaminated vaccine per child, and about 15 states were believed to have received lots that were free from SV40

High levels of SV-40 were identified in polio vaccines in:
Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Washington DC, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Low levels of SV-40 were found in: Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Louisiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Nebraska, North Dakota, Tennessee, and West Virginia.

Source: National Institutes of Health, 1950's Contaminated Polio Vaccines - A Deadly Cure By Geraldo Fuentes viewzone.com 9-16-00


Recently, researchers scanned 99 lymphomas, 235 epithelial tumors and 40 control tissues for the virus.
They found the virus in:
43% of non-Hodgkin's lymphomas
9% of Hodgkin's lymphomas,
Importantly, a second reputable team independently found the virus in 42% of non-Hodgkin's lymphomas. See below
Importantly, no SV40 was found in the tissue of healthy controls.
See Presence of simian virus 40 DNA sequences in human lymphomas.
Lancet. 2002 Mar 9;359(9309):851-2. PMID: 11897287 - PubMed

"In March,, researchers led by Janet Butel of Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, reported that 42% of the non-Hodgkin lymphomas they analyzed contained genetic sequences from SV40. And not just any SV40: In several tumors, it was precisely the genome of the SV40 in the vials of the 1955 polio vaccine that Dr. Ratner had held onto, waiting for someone to care. Lab-grown SV40 harbors a variant genome. There might be other sources, in addition to vaccine, of this strain of SV40, but to more and more scientists Dr. Butel's findings were the smoking gun." - WSJ 7-19-02

The incidence of NHL has nearly doubled over the last 30 years.
Between 1955 and 1961, an estimated nine million Canadians, about half the adult population and most of the children, were vaccinated, primarily with the Salk vaccine. The incidence of NHL in Canada is high and has also risen.

Amid dueling data, some facts are uncontested. An estimated two-thirds of the polio vaccines -- the oral Sabin and the injected Salk -- administered from 1955 to 1963 contained SV40, including the vials Dr. Ratner saved. Contaminated vaccine was also given to children and some adults in Australia, Canada, Denmark and Germany, and possibly Russia, Mexico and other countries." - WSJ 7-19-02

June 2003: Specimens from patients with NHL were 5 times more likely to have evidence of SV40 infection than were the controls. Confidence range: 3 to 9 times more likely. - Vilchez, et al. Simian Virus 40 in Human Cancers, June 2003, The American Journal of Medicine, Vol 114


The Virus and the Vaccine: The True Story of a Cancer-Causing Monkey Virus, Contaminated Polio Vaccine, and the Millions of Americans Exposed, by Debbie Bookchin and Jim Shumacher.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312278721/optimalwellnessc

The top researchers agree on this; it would seem its you who doesn't bother to look at the evidence posted

[kestrel91316]

18. Um, what the heck does SV40 virus have to do with vaccinating dogs and cats?

[philb]

22. I posted studies doc. by a Vet in a Book with references- you guys brought this up - so here's more

posted studies doc. by a Vet in a Book with references- you guys brought this up based on one of the references.
Seems commentors are always determined to get into areas my original post didn't intend to go.

From a person involved in development of the Sabin Polio Vaccine

The Oral Sabin Polio vaccine is cultured in monkey kidney tissue.
Four years after the development of the Salk vaccine, Bernice Eddy of the National Institutes of Health discovered the contamination of the vaccine with SV40. All three types of Sabin's live Poliovirus vaccine were contaminated. There were specific laboratory difficulties associated with Adeno virus, now carrying an attached form of SV40. Sweet describes, "When we started growing the vaccines, we just couldn't get rid of the SV40-contaminated virus. We tried to neutralize it, but couldn't. Either Adeno or SV40 would come out down the line. It was too late to switch gears and start using raccoon or chicken systems, because then you could be dealing with another whole set of viruses.”

SV40 has been shown to cause various forms of cancer.
"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin Polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in Leukemia in this country,” states Dr. Frederick Klenner Polio Researcher, USA.
By the end of 1996, dozens of scientists reported finding SV40 in a variety of bone cancers and a wide range of brain cancers, which had risen 30 percent over the previous 20 years. Then, Italian researchers reported finding SV40 in 45 percent of the seminal fluid samples and 23 percent of the blood samples they had taken from healthy donors. That meant SV40 could have been spreading through sexual activity, from mother to child, or by other means, which could explain how those never inoculated with the contaminated vaccine, such as the Boston children, were being infected. Michael Carbone found the SV40 virus in 60% of the human lung tumors he was studying, (SV40 stands for Simian Virus the 40th virus found). Eventually, sixty different labs confirmed the results.

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_13.htm

Immunization: History, Ethics, Law and Health by Catherine Diodati ISBN 0968508006
"Paralytic cases were not distinguished from non-paralytic cases until a recommendation was made by the Dominion Council of Health in 1949- The LCDC figures provided from 1952 and onward represent this administrative change: recording only those cases adhering to the requirements for a diagnosis of paralytic poliomyelitis. In a report released in June of 1959, another administrative change was recommended by the Dominion Council of Health, further altering the way in which apparent cases of poliomyelitis would be reported. All non-paralytic cases of poliomyelitis were to be henceforth recorded as "meningitis, viral or aseptic," a disease which itself only became reportable in 1952." These two administrative changes effectively reduced the apparent incidence of poliomyelitis. In particular, since the latter change is temporally correlative to the introduction of the polio vaccines, the vaccines appear to have been responsible for a reduction in poliomyelitis cases when it is entirely possible that the administrative changes are primarily responsible."--Catherine Diodati (Immunization History, Ethics, Law and Health p116)


The American Journal of Medicine June 1, 2003;114(8):675-684, Regis A. Vilchez MD
ODDS RATIO Of SV40 INFECTION IN CANCERS
Abstract
Analysis of molecular biology data shows that polyomavirus SV40 is associated significantly with primary brain and bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Thirteen studies fulfilled the criteria for the investigation of primary brain cancers (661 tumors and 482 control samples). Specimens from patients with brain tumors were almost four times more likely to have evidence of SV40 infection than were those from controls (odds ratio = 3.9; 95% confidence interval : 2.6 to 5.8). The association was even stronger for mesothelioma (OR = 17; 95% CI: 10 to 28; based on 15 studies with 528 mesothelioma samples and 468 control samples) and for bone cancer (OR = 25; 95% CI: 6.8 to 88; based on four studies with 303 cancers and 121 control samples). SV40 DNA was also more frequent in samples from patients with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (OR = 5.4; 95% CI: 3.1 to 9.3; based on three studies with 301 cases and 578 control samples) than from controls.
Conclusion
These results establish that SV40 is associated significantly with brain tumors, bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Studies are needed to assess current prevalence of SV40 infections.


ODDS RATIO Of SV40 INFECTION IN CANCERS
=====================================
bone cancer OR = 25; 95% CI: 6.8 to 88
mesothelioma OR = 17; 95% CI: 10 to 28
NHL OR = 5.4; 95% CI: 3.1 to 9.3 *
brain cancer OR = 3.9; 95% CI: 2.6 to 5.8)

Translation: This means that specimens from patients with NHL were 5 times more likely to have evidence of SV40 infection than were the controls. Confidence range: 3 to 9 times more likely.

* NHL results based on three studies with 301 cases and 578 control samples.

Conclusion from report: These results establish that SV40 is associated significantly with brain tumors, bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Studies are needed to assess current prevalence of SV40 infections.
Higher incidence of Simian virus 40 in primary gastric diffuse large B cell lymphoma (DLBCL) than primary nodal disease in Chinese patients, but of no prognostic implication. ASCO 2004 ~ Abstract No: 6671

[trotsky]

80. It doesn't, of course.

But it's standard M.O. for Bernie/Bernie Jr.

Losing the argument? Change the subject. Throw a page of completely unrelated links out there.

[cosmik debris]

23. 45 freakin years ago!

You are truly desperate for data when you dredge up stuff that is 45 years old.

Haven't you figured out yet that you make yourself look like a clown when you pull out that lame shit?

[philb]

26. You're not reading again; my references are recent and find SV40 in current cancers

Top researchers agree on this;

Medical Conference: Early polio vaccine harbored virus now feared to cause cancer in humans

The conference concluded with a consensus among the leading scientists that SV40's presence in human tumors was no longer in question. "Sixty-two papers from 30 laboratories from around the world have reported SV40 in human tissues and tumors," http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/07/15/MN193825.DTL

Green Monkey SV40 "It was important not to convey to the public information, because you could start a panic. Janet Butel, a prominent researcher who chairs the Division of Molecular Virology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas

New documents show the monkey virus is present in more recent polio vaccine

Sources: Children's Hospital of Philadelphia; SEER; virus images by Jean Yves Sgro, University of Wisconsin; Chronicle research. Simian virus 40 and human cancers, Strickler H., Einstein Quarterly J. Biol. and Med. (2001) 18:14-21. This includes a detailed bibliography that will lead readers to earlier scientific articles. Oral polio vaccine and human cancer: a reassessment of SV40 as a contaminant based upon legal documents. Kops S., Anticancer Research (2000) 20: 4745-4750.
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Monkey-Virus-Polio-Vaccine.htm


A simian virus known as SV40 has been associated with a number of rare human cancers. This same virus contaminated the polio vaccine administered to 98 million Americans from 1955 to 1963
SV40, The Virus and the Vaccine, H. Pass, MD, NCI, http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/02/002bookchin.htm




and many thousands of Gulf War veterans and their families and others have also been killed or affected by biological agents that appear to have come from vaccines, but have been found to be contagious and transmitted to family members
and even their pets

Gulf War Illness Research, Dr. Garth Nicholson, MD
http://www.immed.org/illness/gulfwar_illness_research.html

How a New AIDS-like Plague Threatens Our Armed Forces and the Public
by Alan R. Cantwell, Jr., M.D. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/cantwell2.html

Biological Warfare Conducted on U.S. Military Members, Captain Joyce Riley, http://www.all-natural.com/riley.html

[lizerdbits]

27. Yawn

[philb]

29. thats always your response; but I'm quoting top researchers in vaccine research field

Seems some don't take anything seriously; even when it appears that millions have been adversely affected by exposures to extremely high levels of neurotoxic substances at levels far above Gov't health guidelines,
and likewise Monkey Virus SV40, a known carcinogen, has been confirmed by the top researchers and Gov't researchers to commonly be in cancers

Do you disagree with anything I said in this post? Is this not cause for concern?

[cosmik debris]

36. Millions? LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

[philb]

46. But you don't have a case, I've supplied hundreds of credible references and EPA and DOH agree with

me, as seen on their web site that I've referenced.

As documented before National Academy of Sciences documented that in the 1990s 50% of U.S. pregnancies resulted in birth defects or neurological conditions like autism, ADHD, learning disabilities, mood disorders, asthma, eczema, diabetes, etc. etc. and researchers have documented that the majority of these were due to toxic exposures, with most due to
toxic metals- which have been found by EPA and DOH (ASTDR) to be 7 of the top 10 toxics adversely affecting large numbers of people -mercury, lead, and arsenic the top 3.
www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
www.flcv.com/fetaln.html

While dental amalgam has been documented to be the largest source of mercury in most adults, vaccines have been found to be the largest source in most infants, followed closely by mercury from Mom's dental fillings which also is very high.
And vaccines have also been found to be largest source of aluminum in the blood and organs of infants, with aluminum like mercury being neurotoxic and also causing immune problems similar to mercury. Plus other neurotoxic substances like formaldehyde and other immune affecting substances similar to the effects found in pets by the studies referenced in the original post here.

www.flcv.com/vaxalum.html

[cosmik debris]

48. Same bogus links, same bogus spam

Pathetic, really pathetic.

[lizerdbits]

37. Your citations

Most are either:
1) Decades old
2) Not real citations but links to natural remedy sites
3) Don't give the conclusions you are claiming they do

We have all been over and over this with you but you just keep SPAMMING this forum. You don't want to discuss, you want to SPAM.

[cosmik debris]

32. A quote from your own post

"Between 1955 and 1963 a polio vaccine contaminated with SV40 was accidentally given to millions of people."

Now, tell me how many years has it been since 1963? Can you count that high? I don't think so.

[TZ]

68. Hey STUPID I told you I did SV40 testing

Tissue cultures and animals are routinely screened for this kind of crap. Contamination by this virus is exceedingly rare, because of this

[philb]

72. See the study by the head of the Baylor Med School & others; they disagree with you

lets decide based on the majority evidence; I've posted mine;
you post yours

They said the incidence in some types of tumors was as high as 42%, see study
Do you disagree with their study?
What was its problem?

[cosmik debris]

74. 1955 polio vaccine ????

Do you have any thing from the last twenty or thirty years?

C'mon, quit being an idiot!

[varkam]

15. Nice catch.

Not that it will do any good...

[cosmik debris]

10. From footnote #9

The four main causative factors of autoimmune disease have been stated to be: Genetic predisposition; Hormonal influences, especially of sex hormones; Infections, especially of viruses; and Stress.

Did you see anything there about vaccines? Anything? Did you even read this stuff or are you just playing Dr. Google with your cut and paste prescriptions?

[philb]

28. This was the authors cite, but yes there is documentation of the vaccine connection cited

in the article and the referenced studies. It was also documented in more detail in the books that the author has written on this issue, which are reviewed on Amazon if you haven't read one of them.
http://www.afghanhoundreview.com/Vaccine.html

There is similarly lots of documentation to peer-reviewed studies, Gov't agency findings, etc. in my review paper citing over 100 peer-reviewed studies of similar connections in humans.

www.flcv.com/kidshg.html


The studies on pets and the studies on kids have found the same things.
Thats why among other things that thimerosal has been taken out of both pet and children vaccines. I think in pet vaccines sooner likely.

[cosmik debris]

34. Repeating it over and over does not make it true.

It just proves that you are still living in your echo chamber where you only hear the stuff that you agree with.

It is pathetic, but that is what you get.

And of course you didn't answer the question: where is the mention of vaccinations in the list of causes? It is not there because you are full of shit.

[cosmik debris]

39. Award winning post!

[medeak]

11. Dr Jean Dodds is my hero

Thank you for mentioning her here... she personally emailed me from South Africa while taking care of sick relative when I was seeking help for Cavalier King Charles puppy that was so anemic he was unable to stand after his vaccines. His bone marrow had completely shut down and she was the ONLY vet able to diagnose. My current vet will not even get close to the dog now with vaccine as his titers are so ridiculously high he has enough for the rest of his life.

[kestrel91316]

19. Just because vaccination preceded bone marrow suppression in

your dog does not mean that the vaccination caused the bone marrow suppression. This is Science 101.

[medeak]

35. apparently this is a toxic subject

of which am unaware of the dynamics going on here..

I would take Dr. Dobbs opinion and my local vet over yours.

pups 2nd series of vaccines was given a week early than recommended...and titer levels 4 yrs since still uphold theory. putting you on ignore.

[lizerdbits]

38. N=1 is proof for you?

I'd go back to science 101 and repeat.

[kestrel91316]

47. If you're going to make the rather outrageous assertion that vaccinations

caused your dog's bone marrow suppression, you're going to meet with a little disbelief unless you can back up your claim with something resembling science.

And yes, it's an outrageous assertion.

[lizerdbits]

41. Everyone who eats salads eventually dies

DonT EAt SaLADS!!11!!!1

[cosmik debris]

43. OH Noes! I ate a salad in 1963!

Woe is Me!!

[cosmik debris]

12. You cite a survey of owners

to validate the diagnosis that dog suffer ADHD and anxiety??????

And you want others to believe that you have science on your side????

[philb]

24. The author of the best selling pet book cited it, and was part of it;

author of Shock to the System (2005),& the best-selling book What Vets Don’t Tell You About Vaccines

The author has been guest of the Vet on the popular NPR pet weekly show, Calling all Pets, who thought her rather credible.

The study quoted was a part of the very large veterinary task force efforts and reports cited. Most of the references involve peer-reviewed studies or Veterinary task force or committee study findings.

[cosmik debris]

33. There is nothing scientific about it.

NOTHING AT ALL.

Asking pet owners to make a medical diagnosis is folly at best and it is absurd to use it as evidence to support your nut case theory.

[philb]

58. The original post was extracted from Nexus Magazine, 2005

Extracted from Nexus Magazine,www.nexusmagazine.com (Oct 2005).

She and her books are very widely quoted by lots of people including vets, as can be easily determined. I got 1590 google hits for just one of her book titles. The findings in her book are supported by studies at several universities including Purdue, etc. and lots of journal articles including the NEJM study.

All Amazon book reviews very positive http://www.amazon.com/Shock-System-Animal-Vaccination-Healthy/dp/1929242298
Shock to the System

Here's from one pet owner: This is an extraordinary article! I am going to copy it to a number of people, some vets included, that need to see this! From research I have done following Mychal’s vaccination-induced epilepsy, and death, I have come to the conclusion that all three of my previous dogs, all Standard Poodles, died from the effects of vaccination
http://fleetfiretimberswhatsnew.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/science-of-vaccine-damage/

[cosmik debris]

60. I can't believe anyone could be so profoundly stupid

to believe that google hits and amazon book reviews lend credibility to a crack pot theory.

Am I wrong?

Is there someone that profoundly stupid?

Would that be you?

[lizerdbits]

61. Yes it would be!

[LeftishBrit]

70. The hits and Amazon book reviews do not indicate that something is correct...

they may simply indicate that it's sensational.

I am sure many science fiction books get positive Amazon reviews; this does not mean the science is correct.

Lots of people listen to Rush Limbaugh; does this make his views valid?

[kestrel91316]

17. Anybody who wants to bone up on vaccinations in cats

(with REAL scientific data and objective analysis of the facts) can access the AAFP Vaccination Guidelines for 2006, available HERE:

http://www.aafponline.org/resources/practice_guidelines.htm
http://www.aafponline.org/resources/guidelines/2006_Vaccination_Guidelines_JAVMA_%20PDF_Plus.pdf

Rabies and FVRCP (panleukopenia aka distemper, plus respiratory viruses) are considered "core" vaccinations. That means DO NOT NEGLECT THEM. EVER.

Feline leukemia virus vaccine is technically "non-core", along with many other vaccines that exist in cats but that I never use. In my area (urban/suburban with a large stray cat population) I consider FeLV a significant enough risk should the cat get outside even inadvertently that I strongly recommend it. The disease is a killer, and just waiting for an unsuspecting unprotected cat to come along.

Feline immunodeficiency virus vaccine is definitely "non-core" and has some serious drawbacks: it causes a cat to blood test POSITIVE for the FIV virus (a bad thing), and does not protect against all strains by a long stretch. I don't use it.

[cosmik debris]

44. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Chicken Little says so!

[cosmik debris]

45. The end is near!

[cosmik debris]

54. I finally found her credentials.

After a through search of her web site I found out what credentials this woman has to discuss veterinary medicine:

She (Catherine O'Driscoll) learnt Emotional Freedom Technique in 1998 and is qualified as a practitioner and teacher under the Association for the Advancement of Meridian Energy Techniques (AAMET).

Catherine is also an ACT (Animal Communication Training) examiner, and a qualified Reiki practitioner.

Now, if that sounds so crazy that you thought I made it up...

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/k9health/wwwchc/Catherine/COD%20Home.htm#COD

And here is her price list:

Pricing Schedule
Workshops & One to One (in person)
EFT (Animal) 2 Day Workshop: £170.00

EFT Practitioner's (Human) 2 Day Workshop: £170.00

Advanced EFT (Human) 2 Day Workshop: £170.00

One to One EFT (Animal/Human) Per hour: £50.00

For residential workshop places
Accommodation @ £25.00 per night (B&B)

Evening Meals @ £5.00 per person

By Telephone
EFT (Animal/Human) Per half hour session: £30.00 (£50.00 for an hour)

Animal Communication Per half hour session: £30.00

Canine Nutrition Per half hour session: £30.00 (50% discount for CHC Members).

By Letter/Email
EFT (Animal) Per half hour session: £30.00

Animal Communication Per half hour session: £30.00

Canine Nutrition Per half hour session: £30.00 (50% discount for CHC Members).

Click here for the pricing schedule to print.

Details on: EFT & Workshops : Animal Communication : Canine Nutrition

And this is the person you cite as an expert! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[philb]

55. All you've shown is that you post about things you know nothing about- yes very effective technique

she has mastered- EFT (ha ha ha, jokes on you)

Studies at FSU and other universities have found EFT (and similar methods) to be very effective for treating trauma and the most effective technique tested for PTSD of Vietnam War Veterans, etc. more effective than the previous standard treatment- Cognitive Therapy.

The Power Therapies: A proposed mechanism for their action and suggestions for future empirical validation , Michael Lamport Commons Department of Psychiatry Harvard Medical School, http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i2/v6i2a5.htm

These therapies include: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), developed by Francine Shapiro (Shapiro, 1995); Thought Field Therapy (TFT), developed by Roger Callahan and W. Callahan (Callahan, 1995); Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT) (these are all essentially similar)

Traumatology, Vol. 8, No. 1 (March 2002) FSU Univ. studies

Six trauma imprints were identified and treated in a number of the clients. The combination treatments seemed to have a beneficialeffect in alleviating the acute aspects of multiple traumas.

http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v8/SixTraumaImprints.pdf
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=eft+fsu+trauma&btnG=Google+Search

A recent study at Florida State University shows that the NLP trauma treatment known as the V/K-Disassociation technique is highly effective in helping trauma survivors. This study compares the NLP process with EMDR, TFT and TIR and is reported in the Family Therapy Networker. The renowned traumatologist, Dr. Charles Figley conducted the study and found the NLP, EMDR, TIR and TFT processes to all be very useful.

Power Therapy (also known as alphabet therapies) is a term applied to a set of therapies, usually for treating anxiety and trauma, that proponents say are at the cutting edge of psychiatry and psychology because of a stated efficacy and efficiency in being superior to traditional treatments <1>. Examples of such treatments are: Thought Field Therapy (TFT; Callahan, 1995; Gallo, 1995), Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT; Craig, 1997), Traumatic Incident Reduction (TIR; Gerbode, 1985, 1995), and VKD (Visual–Kinesthetic Dissociation), and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR; Shapiro, 2001).
The term power therapies has fallen into disuse, although the specific therapies have continued. EMDR is the most highly researched, and has been accepted by the U.S. Veterns Administration and used in mainstream psychotherapy. The student of these therapies will find it interesting to note what these therapies have in common, and whether they are commonalities because they constitute what professor Charles Figley has referred to as "active ingredients." (Gallo, 1995; Yourell, 2005)
• Figley, C. R. (1995, July). T & r: Thought field therapy . [e-mail]

EFT and similar widely used in post disaster and war trauma situations by emergency organizations and found very effective.

Reports from the field, however, show a pattern of strong outcomes following the use of EP both immediately following disasters and in the subsequent treatment of PTSD. Hundreds of reports track the use of EP in the aftermath of wars and ethnic cleansing. Many of these accounts corroborate one another in terms of rapid relief and long-term benefits, yet the state of the art in applying EP following disasters still resides largely with the practitioners who have been carrying out such work. The author interviewed eight EP practitioners who are associated with disaster relief organizations and engaged in e-mail dialogue with the leadership of three of those disaster relief organizations.
http://www.innersource.net/energy_psych/articles/ep_energy-trauma-treatment.htm

And she also has expertise in pet related issues
The EFT is likely very useful in her work dealing with pets to treat their Vax effects

[cosmik debris]

57. Pet groomers have more expertise,

Your woo woo train got knocked off the tracks.

[philb]

59. Yes Pet groomers have a lot of experience working with pets, and

experience from working with lots of different types of pets over time, they talk a lot to the owners about a lot of stuff, including things like this; Its their life and they read much about things relevant to working with animals.
Seems you don't appreciate hands on experience and real studies with real kids and real pets.

I look at both, all the peer-reviewed studies I can find on the issues I'm interested in,
plus experience of doctors and vets and others actually working with the kids (and pets to a lesser degree)
I think both technical studies and real experience is important in understanding such.
I've already quoted lots of peer-reviewed studies. But experience is important also.

Her book "Shock to the System" was a best seller and got 1590 hits of people quoting her on google

All Amazon reviews were favorable and most highly favorable

Likewise another of her books, What the Vets don't tell you about Vaccines got 1500 hits on google of peoplw quoting her book.

This article in Nexus Magazine got 563 google hits of people quoting or posting her article.

Seems lots of people who read her work and looked at her documentation were impressed

[lizerdbits]

62. "Amazon reviews were favorable"

Well fuck the scientific method, we've got amazon! If people review a book favorably it must be true. I'm series!1! :rofl:

[cosmik debris]

63. It got 1500 google hits--that proves its true!

[philb]

69. My IQ was tested as over 140; what about you?

and I finished at the top of my class both high school and college.
What about you?
Seems all you can post is silly stuff. Did you not go to school and learn something useful?
If so, why don't you post something that makes sense and makes a valid argument, if you understand the concept.
See the thread on Scientific Method that I posted and put it to use to try to show which of the studies I've posted are invalid or have hypotheses that are untrue. If you can do so, you've proved the argumment isn't valid. But I don't think that you can since you've had lots of chances.

[cosmik debris]

71. Well, I've got enough IQ to know better than to believe that BS!

And enough education to know that book reviews and google hits are not a good indication of credibility.

This is not about IQ or education. It is about gullibility. And in that category you win hands down!

You seem to believe the most irrational things.

You seem to be unable to tell truth from fiction.

You seem to be unable to distinguish science from rubbish.

I'm sorry you lack those skills. Perhaps you should be reading books about critical thinking instead of books about pet grooming.

[varkam]

77. Wow. Can't argue with logic like that.

"I'm right because I'm really super-duper-smart!"

That logic right there kind of, erm, makes me question whether or not you're lying to us, philb.

[China_cat]

79. My favorite ex-husband had an IQ over 190

He believed in all kinds of conspiracy theories, liked to watch thunder storms from the roof (with an umbrella) and, as his mother said, couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

You remind me a lot of him.

[Ayesha]

64. A vaccine triggered my dog's illness

I have a dog with immune-mediated polyarthritis. It's an autoimmune disorder where the body attacks the joints. She has had mild skin and other issues since puppyhood that in retrospect were clearly indicative of autoimmune problems. She started having a limp that would come and go, and no one could figure out what was wrong. Well to make a long story short, we moved and our new vet really wanted her to have a new rabies vaccine as we didn't have paperwork on the one she had as a puppy. We were a bit reluctant, but we did it, and within a week she couldn't stand. Since then she's been on steroids that make her incontinent, immune suppressing drugs...lost most of her hair, etc. She cannot be around our other dogs because she is aggressive towards them. We have actually written to the Best Friends animal sanctuary because right now she lives in a large room by herself, and she needs a home where she can be the only dog.

I don't think the vaccine caused her illness per se, but it put her over the edge into full-blown disease. We really should have known better than to give her that vaccine. We absolutely do vaccinate - the risks are too great not to - but only once. We titer test every year and none of our dogs has ever needed a booster. Our oldest dog is 7, he last had vaccines at 8 months old and he's still immune.

It seems like most people see vaccination as an either/or proposition, when a middle ground exists. Vaccines ARE important, but they are also dangerous, especially for certain people and animals. They should be used, but with caution and as infrequently as possible. My Kyla is a dog that should never have been re-vaccinated, and that mistake cost her her health and may well shorten her life. I don't blame our vet - in fact I love him, he's a wonderful person. He was just trying to do what he thought was best with the information he had.

BTW, I third the admiration of Dr. Dodds. I've consulted with her twice and found her to be very knowledgeable and helpful!

[cosmik debris]

65. According to the OP's sources

The four main causative factors of autoimmune disease have been stated to be: Genetic predisposition; Hormonal influences, especially of sex hormones; Infections, especially of viruses; and Stress.

[DemExpat]

81. Yearly vaccines triggered epilepsy in my 8 year old dog.

I skipped the following boosters, and with Acupuncture we got him stabilized to where he had no fits for over a year and a half.
Then my vet at that time talked me into a booster shot, I took my little guy out to the park afterwards for his walk and halfway through he fell on his side and had a full-blown attack. I was mortified.

With my present dog I had her immunized with the whole lot for 3 years, and now have skipped 1. Next year I will have her blood tested to see if she needs a booster.

Vets over here are becoming very cautious with yearly vaccine protocols, and many say vaccinations may protect for the pet's lifetime.

I agree with you on the Middle Ground approach!

DemEx