How to undermine the push towards theocracy

[Brian_Expat]

We need to create a gay religion. A religion that specifically and explicitly embraces gayness and states that it is the way God wants all people to live.

Then, we need to get condescending. Tut tut at evangelicals and tell them that I'd never approve of their lifestyle because it's not what the Goddess wants. Try and convert people at work. Demand large sums of government money. Do everything that fundies do every day. Watch the fur fly.

Then when action is taken against us, sue under the laws the fundies set up for themselves based on religious discrimination.

Under the "Religious Freedom Act," for instance, state that an employer isn't reasonably accommodating your gay religious beliefs by refusing to offer DP benefits. Claim to be having your religious beliefs violated if a boss in a red state fires or discriminates on sexual orientation.

Reap and leverage the laws of unintended consequences to give the fundies and their milquetoast "moderate Dem" supporters heartburn. If they try and make the new laws "for Christians only," even conservative courts will strike the laws out entirely. And if they try and keep them as they are, they create an "intolerable situation" -- the special rights they want for themselves being leveraged by anyone who has any belief they define as "religious."

[ck4829]

1. I'm not gay, but I think it is a good idea

I think gay people need a religious group to call 'home'. I think it would be even better if this religion combined with interfaith groups.

The French tried something similar during their revolution, they called it the Cult of Reason. Perhaps we need to see that happen again.

[Tamyrlin79]

2. I agree with this...sort of.

I agree that we should use their own laws against them... Any who want prayer in school, for example, should be forced to deal with petitions from wiccans, satanists, hindus and others for "equal time". You honestly think they are actually going to let someone pray to Satan on the loudspeaker? Suddenly they might begin to understand why the supreme court decision on the matter was the right call and decide secularism and separation of church and state is not so bad after all. Their view rests on the assumption that THEIR religion will predominate. And it might, if we let them get away with it. Making equal protection arguments equates their religion with others and forces them to deal with their own religious bias. This would really be a good thing for the country, so I sincerely hope that arguments like this are made and court cases filed.

This is the same for religious displays on government property, whether the ten commandments or christmas displays: wiccans should demand an altar or something for the winter solstice or, if it is a ten commandments display, demand a display of the Wiccan Rede.

Also, the metropolitan community church is a gay church, and I would think that members could already undertake this sort of action from a christianity standpoint, rather than starting a whole new religion based on gay-ness... In any case, native american indian tribes whose religion accepts gays and other such tolerant religious groups could also undertake this sort of action.

[Brian_Expat]

3. Nah, MCC isn't good enough

We need a religion that holds heterosexuals to be "abominations in the eyes of the Goddess" who live a "sinful lifestyle destructive to body and soul."

You know, just as arrogant and STUPID as typical fundie rhetoric on gays. Then defend it with the same sort of sanctimony.

The majority of Americans would repeal the laws so fast, in that case, that your head will spin.

[Gildor Inglorion]

5. A fabulous idea...and actually true!

Considering the hideous overpopulation problem and the incredible superfluity of human life pullulating here, there, and everywhere, the loathsome breeders are the fount and origin of all the world's woes. We should, however, view them with compassion, and allow them to offer their generative organs as a loving sacrifice to the Goddess.
The spayed and neutered breeders could then be allowed to live quietly, devoting themselves to good works and charity. O8)

[Brian_Expat]

7. LOL

Can you imagine the response to that line?

"Heterosexuals are called upon to offer their objectively disordered, foul and pollutive generative organs as a loving sacrifice to the Goddess -- either through becoming a homosexual whole in the love of the Goddess, or should the temptation of heterosexuality be too strong, through the sacrament of castration. The Church of Pinkness offers love, compassion and understanding to the unrepentant heterosexual and calls on the government to offer castration services to all heterosexuals. Although they shouldn't be teachers -- they corrupt the youth into heterosexuality and all that is unpure in the eyes of the Goddess." :)

[BR_Parkway]

9. I've been wondering why no one has taken this tact before. If I belong

to MCC, UCC or several of the other 'recognized, organized' religions who DO support equal treatment of gays, then all these amendments and laws that they are passing against equal treatment of gays & lesbians DOES infringe on my religious beliefs.

The bad part of that argument would be the guy who still wants to stone adulterers and homosexuals based on his religious tenants - that one could twist the Supreme Court in a half dozen different directions.

[kweerwolf]

4. An interesting idea, but ...

... considering that organizing even a small group of gays to show up for a shopping trip to Abercrombie & Fitch is even harder to do that herding kittens, I'd say a gay religion would last about a week until everyone is screaming "heresy!" at each other and calling for an inquisition.

Sadly, despite all the enemies we face from the outside, the GLBT community can't stop fighting among themselves. We used to be known for "camp," as in campy, ironic humor. Now we're known for our "camps," as in every subset and permutation of the GLBT community is scrambling to promote their own agenda with no regard for what's good for the entire community. What Will Rogers said about Democrats applies equally to gays: "When you tell them to form a firing squad, they stand in a circle."

Of course if someone wants to form a gay religion, I would support the idea ... assuming, of course, I get to be the pope! O8)

[Brian_Expat]

6. Hey, religion never stays unitary. . .

. . . schism happens even in "mainstream" religion.

What better way to prove legitimacy in court than point at schisms, and similarities to the "legacy" religions?

Am I good, or am I good?!? ;)

[kweerwolf]

8. Dang! You ARE good!

<waves magic scepter and pronounces Brian_Expat to be the Pope-in-Waiting in the heirarchy of the Church of the Queerly Divine>

O8)

[Brian_Expat]

10. Excellent!

Wait until I announce the "Sacrament of Holy Initiation Into The Order." Buff hairy guys line up to the left, please. . . ;)

[seaj11]

12. True.

Any counterattack against the fundies would need to be carefully orchestrated so as to not backfire, and it would need to not further divide the independent thinkers in this country. And that starts with avoiding the backstabbing and demonization within.

[Jamastiene]

16. I have thought that too.

I have begged the gay organizations to get together and take it one step at the time and get hate crimes laws set up first, or at least lend more support to those of us in red states or extremely homophobic states. They don't seem to be able to agree with each other on anything. I wish I knew how to set up a 501 3c to form an exploratory comittee sort of thing for this idea. I'd love to be able to have a religion I could believe in.

I think my one request or suggestion would be that it not be too heavy on any sort of heavy discipline (well, in the traditional sense and not that other kind if you are thinking it, I like that kind :P ) Maybe if someone could set up a religion that is not too heavy on impossible to follow rules but heavy on the love part, I could actually have something to believe in.

[seaj11]

11. I assume you're being satirical, but you're right...

You make some good points about RW nut "logic," and I strongly believe in using an enemy's attack against them.

[Duncan Grant]

14. "Waiting for the Sky Taxi" - By TygrBright (DU recent articles)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/05/03/26_taxi.html

"Waiting for the Sky Taxi" has some transferable ideas relevant to this, too. I thought it was a great read and since we're all brainstorming here - why not bring all the good ideas together? :hi:

[Dark]

13. Can I be the savior?!

But I'm not getting crucified.

"Give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and everything else to me."

[Jamastiene]

15. If you are serious about that...

One of my goals is to reach a point where I have enough education to learn how to do research better than I do right now. So far they haven't actually offered the class. One of my goals when I am taking the class is to use what I learn to do research to back up my belief that homosexuality IS in fact natural. I hope to get to do that by this time next year. I intend to prove it is natural and to point out how much homosexuality actually does happen in nature. I know that doesn't apply to the religious immorality claims directly, but it would help in shooting down their claims that it isn't natural. It may even help with the immorality claim if I can manage to word it right. I'm hoping for the best any how.