There's a thread on the greatest page with 30 rec's calling Geraldine Ferraro a f'ing bigot.

[Duncan Grant]

Help me understand this: a thread with 30 recommendations calling Geraldine Ferraro a "fucking racist bigot" is acceptable but if anyone of us points out something posted at DU as (homophobic) bigotry -- the entire thread will be locked? Shouldn't we at least be having a conversation about this? Seems to me we're missing an opportunity to have an exchange of ideas about "context".

Furthermore, I think the most intellectually dishonest response is: rules are rules. Especially when Geraldine is a fucking racist bigot with 30 recommendations...

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6038963&mesg_id=6038963

(p.s. For the clueless -- this post isn't about Geraldine Ferraro, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton)

edit: subject line

[murielm99]

1. I fully agree.

K&R

This place has become unrecognizable.

[Duncan Grant]

9. Something is out of kilter.

I wish I could name it. :hi:

[racaulk]

2. THANK YOU!!!

I guess since Ferraro isn't a DUer, however, it's acceptable to call her a bigot. We can't call DUers bigots, even when they are. That's the lesson I've learned this week.

:eyes:


On edit, I am thrilled to recommend this thread.

[Duncan Grant]

10. That's exactly what I'd like to discuss!

:pals:

[racaulk]

12. Same here.

There were so many thoughful and valid points brought up by GLBT DUers in that "Best of DU: Volume 4" thread that have gone by unanswered and ignored by the Mods. And their silence is deafening.

I had the same thoughts as you did when I first saw the Ferraro thread. Thank you for starting this OP. I hope it will bring us the discussion with the Mods that we need.

And :pals: back atcha.

:hi:

[VeraAgnes]

3. The OP is an excellent example as to how long time democrats

have arrived at the decision NOT TO VOTE OBAMA if he gets the nomination. This is abusive behavior presented by the OP of reference and all 30 rec's.

This is a fine rational explaination as to why we will not have a democratic president in 08....we have become the party of self-destruction.:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :scared: :scared: :thumbsdown:

[Duncan Grant]

5. Thanks and this thread isn't about Ferraro, Obama or Clinton.

:hi: :hug:

[jackpan1260]

7. Ferraro is a fine rational explanation as to why we may not have a democratic president in 08

She is spearheading the self-destruction, not the OP. I think Ferraro behavior is pathetic and embarrassing. Ferraro is an excellent example as to how long time democrats have arrived at the decision NOT TO VOTE CLINTON if she gets the nomination.
Thankfully she won't.

[Duncan Grant]

8. I'm not endorsing or condemning the Ferraro thread with 30 rec's.

I'm trying to make a larger point about the context of threads here in the LGBT forum. :hi:

[VeraAgnes]

11. She is standing up to the abuse....

The Obama supporters have acted like gang-lord thugs and routinely practiced road rage on many, many discussion boards. Additionally, let us not leave out the many MSM pundits like KO, Tweety; Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes to mention a diverse source of abusers.

The Clinton supporters have dignity and feelings. To be called daily, whores, racist, republicans, traitors day in/day out is no longer going to be tolerated. They also have a choice to cast their vote or to sit this 08 election out on the porch..........It's not okay to be abused, boundaries are being set.

[jackpan1260]

13. The Obama supporters have dignity and feelings.

To be called daily, cultists, sexist, republicans, traitors day in/day out is no longer going to be tolerated. They also have a choice to cast their vote or to sit this 08 election out on the porch..........It's not okay to be abused, boundaries are being set.

We can do this all day. Ferraro is an embarrassment no matter who she supports.

[VeraAgnes]

15. Sticking ones head in the sand has

only short term benefits...denial is your friend. ...When it all washes out...........Obama will never have the Party support he so desperately needs in November due to the damage done and lack of humility.

We are not one nation, we are not one people as Obama claims...he has a campaign that resembles the Hara-Krishna at the airport in the 70's. They have distances the central base voters of the democratic party. Ferro has share the sentiment of millions. To deny this is to be defeated.

[jackpan1260]

30. "Sticking ones head in the sand" Well we agree that is exactly what Hillary is doing.

Clinton will never have the Party support she so desperately needs to get the nomination due to the damage done and lack of humility Remember "inevitability" and "this will be over by Feb 5th?"

Yes, Ferraro, David Duke, Bush, and assorted other delusional folks share the sentiment of millions. No one is denying it.

[Zuiderelle]

54. Oh for god's sake, do you we have to turn this into Obama/Hillary. It's not about them!!

:grr:

[baby_mouse]

58. The Hillary and Obama bores are driving useful people away from the board.

It wont be much longer after the primaries and the dust has settled before everyone will go ... "uhhh, what happened to DU?"

[murielm99]

17. Clinton supporters are outnumbered on this board.

Any time they post an opposing opinion, they are overwhelmed with replies attacking them.

Earlier today, a Clinton supporter counted the threads in GD: P criticizing Obama, and the threads criticizing Clinton. The threads criticizing Clinton outnumbered the Obama threads four to one.

Most of the threads about cults, republicans, kool-aid, etc. are started to by Obama supporters and answered by Obama supporters. They whine back and forth to each other how they are being abused by the ever-dwindling number of Clinton supporters. It is childish.

Ferraro has every right to defend herself. I am glad she is sticking up for herself, since it seems to be open season on her and any other woman who points out the sexism in this primary.

[jackpan1260]

31. Clinton suppoers are outnumbered everywhere.

You are following the primaries right? Lots of people support Clinton, but more support Obama.

"Most of the threads about cults, republicans, kool-aid, etc." That is quite a lie.

"Ferraro has every right to defend herself." As does Bush, Cheney and every other dunce with an opinion.

"I am glad she is sticking up for herself, since it seems to be open season on her and any other woman who points out the sexism in this primary." Hillary lost because she ran a god awful campaign. There is plenty of sexism and racism going on in America. Thankfully, most people can see it has little to do with Obama's victory or Hillary's defeat. Hillary started off with a MASSIVE lead in this primary and blew it.

[LostinVA]

21. Hillary supporters get way more abuse

But, this is the wrong thread for that subject, and this is my last word on the matter here.

[Mimosa]

60. Ferraro is an ...can I say it?

Bless her heart, Ferraro certainly is a cranky paranoid slightly racist old dear. LOL

[Mimosa]

63. Randi Rhodes is gay, isn't she?

AFAIK Randi Rhodes is gay. Is there something wrong with her being appaled by Geraldine's behaviour?

It certainly went beyond what I could condone.

[eShirl]

53. well that's a dumb thing to base one's vote on

of course, those people are perfectly free to base their vote on spite if that's what they want

[MichiganVote]

4. While I think its childish, 30 rec's out of 100,000+ people isn't exactly a ringing endorsement

[Duncan Grant]

6. First, there's not 100,000 people here.

Second, this thread is about context. :hi:

[MichiganVote]

16. I stand corrected. 120,672 user registrations and 37,201,202 posts since January 2001

Context you know.

[LostinVA]

23. DU has 4-5k active posters

The number of registrations include everyone who has ever signed up and never posted, gotten TS'd, and all the brazillion sockpuppets running around.

[Duncan Grant]

26. Please see post #25.

:thumbsup:

[MichiganVote]

14. Self delete. Responded to wrong post.

[Duncan Grant]

25. Apologies if you were insulted -- that wasn't my intention.

I can see how my overly quick response may have landed as an insult.

What I meant to say is, I think the active users are a far smaller number than registered users.

[LostinVA]

18. Well, I've been called a racist numerous times on here, merely for supporting Hillary

It was so bad in one thread, that a rather homophobic poster, whom I've never gotten along with, actually came to my defense. That poster may disagree with me on just about everything, but she knows I always stick up against racism.

The rules are enforced very selectively, as I've never seen a single post calling me a racist get deleted, and many blatantly homophobic/transphobic remarks are NEVER deleted.

[Duncan Grant]

27. It seems inconsistent to lock LGBT threads for "calling out" bigotry without considering context.

LGBT people are saying there's a problem but the solution has been to lock the threads. Why is that? :shrug:

[LeftyMom]

36. I got called a racist over pubic hair. The same thread where we found out you were a tool of the

patriarchy and your wife is a male chauvinist. I don't recall that any of those things got deleted. And as far as I know, all of the people who slung those accusations are still here.

The problem with calling out homophobia on DU is that it's true, and it's widespread, and some people don't seem to want to admit their role in allowing it to continue. That's why threads pointing it out get deleted, and posts making insane accusations with no basis in reality remain.

[LostinVA]

38. I agree with everything you just said, and here's something to cheer up your night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3316197&mesg_id=3317488

I'm naughty. Blame Damien, and MrsG. MrsG tried to get me TS'd tonight. She's an evil, evil woman.

[Zuiderelle]

51. I have as well. I alerted on a particularly bad one that was eventually deleted.

but I've seen several that don't get deleted. And I've seen VERY few homophobic posts get deleted. There's definitely a bias here.

[FreeState]

19. K&R for 5th

count me among the GLBT long time posters that is not thrilled with DU lately.

[FreeState]

20. K&R for 5th

count me among the GLBT long time posters that is not thrilled with DU lately.

[eridani]

22. We've had lots of effective attacks on homophobia

Whatchu talkin' about?

[LostinVA]

24. Yes -- but now that's against the "rules"

[Lex]

47. those new rules are contemptible then

nt

[Duncan Grant]

28. Please see the "Best of DU Thread - LGBT Edition - #4" in this forum.

After reading it, reconsider the Ferraro thread mentioned in the OP. I think racism and homophobia are handled very differently in these forums. One can call someone a racist at DU but one cannot call someone a homophobic bigot. I find that an interesting development.

[eridani]

48. I've called plenty of people homophobes

Although for most DUers in that category, it's more a matter of using homophobia as a tool than actually believing in it.

[JohnnyLib2]

29. I usually glance away from roadkill.

Didn't get past the title.

[kdpeters]

32. I never did like those "Best of antigay DU" threads

It always had the feeling of calling out other members. Having myself been called out in this manner in an OP on GLBT (I'm gay), consider me someone who is fundamentally opposed to the basic format of those threads which was basically nothing more than calling out on DU member after another. Furthermore, I actually went and looked at the comments and contexts of each person called out in thread #1. In addition to having been called out against the rules, I felt that the majority were very unfairly accused of some serious charges being thrown around much too casually.

The moderators did the right thing by locking those threads.

[LostinVA]

33. It's apparently against the rules to even call a homophobic comment, homophobic now

You agree with that?

Also, the issue a lot of us have with it is the inconsistent and unfair handling of the rules. Until homophobic remarks are consistently deleted and punished, the threads should be allowed.

[Chovexani]

41. It was never intended to call out members.

It was intended to call out behavior. It was a consciousness raising thing. Yes, it got out of hand sometimes, but passions run high. Why lock entire threads and not just delete posts, or give warnings or rules clarifications if rules were being broken, like with the AA threads? Why were they locked now and not months ago if they were such problems? Why haven't I heard from a mod about this until now? I was the one that started those threads (except the last one, that dsc started because I was sick of DU and on hiatus--and came back to this), and I've never once received a PM, email, anything that they were inappropriate. I would have appreciated that rather than having people be summarily silenced.

The entire way this has been handled stinks to high heaven. There needs to be more transparency, more dialogue and communication. A lot of people are really upset and not really having concerns addressed. I'm more concerned about that than the actual lockings, because it points to the systematic moderation problems in this place.

[Solon]

45. Its really bad with Lithos himself made a comment on your original thread...

without even so much as mentioning any rules violations or anything. It just illustrates the double standards on this board.

[queerart]

34. I Have To Say That All Of This Is Funny In A Felliniesque Way

Heterosexuals are allowed to call some one a Bigot (citing the post).......


But Queers are not allowed to use the word........


People who hate the fact that we are even allowed to breath...... are all sitting around the trough...... guffawing, and chortling at the gift laid at their feet.....


Do As We Say.... Not As We Do.......


One has to admit..... a story line like this feels as if it was just ripped from an episode of "Dr. Who"........

[mitchtv]

35. I'm confused

Dodn't I just read Skinner saying we could link to phobe comments, snd dixcuss them , just not call out the member? I can live with that, after all the members's posts say enough, generally.

[Solon]

37. The problem is that they have been inconsistent, apparently that particular rule...

about calling out others only applies to people pointing out homophobia, those who point out racism or other bigotries are not nearly as restricted. That's the problem. The "Best of..." threads here get locked, but the ones in the African American Issues group is left alone. Both call out members in various ways, and frankly, the locking of a thread was an overreaction. They could have decided to delete offending posts, but decided not to.

Look at Lithos thread, look at the examples I linked to and commented on regarding the similarities between the Best of threads in both forums I mentioned. It makes no logical sense to lock one and not the other. The Mods need to either be consistent in enforcing the rules, or change those rules.

[Mimosa]

65. Shoot, that sounds fairly liberal to me

As I said in another post, different gay people have differing perspectives. We don't all find the same things offensive.

[Chovexani]

39. K&R

Lucy got some splainin' to do.

[Solon]

40. Hey you!

What's up? :hug:

[Chovexani]

42. Counting down till my Vegas vacation next week

And moving back to civilization in August. :hug:

[Solon]

46. Ohh, that sounds exciting...

I got a Staph infection on the end of my middle finger(its getting better, thank the Gods!) and I have a new job. Just remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas! ;)

I hope you have fun returning to civilization in August, just hope the move itself is painless, moving is a pain in the ass in general, even when you want to do it. Sometimes I wish I could just leave all my crap behind and have someone else worry about it. :D

[xchrom]

43. recommend

[Der Blaue Engel]

44. Big fat K & fucking R

I'll repeat what I said in another thread, this time a little louder:

A clear message is being sent by this double-standard: homophobia and sexism are not only tolerated here, but condoned and encouraged.

[Mimosa]

59. What is sexist or homophobic to one GLBT may not be to another

I've been in the G/B/T community long enough to have a sense of humour about nearly anything. I was early on working for feminist and gay rights.

Today I have a very tolerant attitude. I'm a broad with a broad mind. LOL Pal Joey is on.

Sexism? My generation stomped it down. There's some of it around today, but not as much. Gays are way further along than I ever thought we'd get in the pre-computer 1970s. (I'm not ancient, in my mid 50s but look younger LOL)

So where's the big evidence of DU homophobia?

[Der Blaue Engel]

61. If you can't see it, I can't help you

You are simply being willfully blind.

[Mimosa]

62. No, I don't know more than I can see in topics now and then

Are there one or two topics which triggered everybody getting mad. I just wanted a link, please.

[Der Blaue Engel]

64. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=62133&mesg_id=62133

[Mimosa]

66. Thank YOU!

Now i'll know what I'm talking about. Thank you for the generosity of posting links I can examine. HUG

[Mimosa]

67. I see what you mean

I see what you mean.

BUT on the board I administer the gay members have been the WORST at posting topics about Mark Foley, Trent Lott as gays, leather queens, etc. There have been times when the 4 or 5 out gay guys went over the line in joking. And it was up to me, a bisexual female, to remonstrate with them for occasionally crossing that 'gay/possible boy diddler' line. (You'd have to visit V&M's Speakeasy by clicking on my signature and search archives -Trent Lott, Mark Foley- to see what I mean.)

But I do understand now what is offensive on a large board where people do not generally know each other. The mods should warn the offender at one complaint. No member should be repeating posts which equate gays to pervs and child molestors. And if Mike Huckabee was gay that's no big deal. I don't understand or accept being gay or bi as a PUT-DOWN. Neither should any moderator.

[queerart]

68. I'd Be Interested Then........

Just asking mind you.......


How would you view this post, since the sexual innuendo content doesn't "appear" to have anything to do with the story at hand:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3318550#3318553

[Mimosa]

69. It's not like the man was charged for messing with boys.

Calling Pearlman a boy-diddler shows what gutters a posters mind runs in. Yes, since there was no context I would have done some subtle censoring. No 'Boy-diddling.'

I know nothing about N-Sync and bad music, btw. I do see what you mean.

[queerart]

70. Thanks For Your Thoughtful Reply......

I just wondered how others see this type of behavior............

[queerart]

71. While I AM At It........

Would you consider these two post "off topic"... or maybe they are related to the news story.... Maybe it just me that's not seeing the Big Picture......



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3322512#3322535


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3322512#3322978

[Mimosa]

72. I'm PMing you

[goldcanyonaz]

49. Umm, but you are gay and you do not exist!.......

You are behind women when it comes to *our* party, right behind women.

[MethuenProgressive]

50. kick & rec 23

A real person, with a real life, can be slandered and libeled here.
An anonymous bigot hiding behind a screen name cannot be called out.
I agree with you regarding the response "rules are rules"...

[meegbear]

52. Rec #24 ... hypocrisy, thy name is DU

[ronnykmarshall]

55. #25!!!

I guess it's time for us to "get out of the way".

[mitchtv]

56. make it an even 30

K&R

[specimenfred1984]

57. The mods freely allow pure propaganda for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Unless you know of a better reason.