Does AIDS ever cause total Liver and Kidney failure?

[Up2Late]

The reason I ask is because, I'm beginning to wonder if HIV/AIDS was the main cause of my Best Friend's death last July, or if it may have only been a contributing factor.

See, the thing is, I recently learned that if you both drink Alcohol AND take Tylenol simultaneously, the Tylenol becomes Toxic, which then causes Liver and Kidney damage. Check the "Alcohol Warning" on a bottle of Tylenol if you think I'm kidding, it's very carefully worded to make it sound like only a minor problem by saying it "may" cause Liver Damage, and it fails to mention Kidney Damage, but I really doubt that something that damaged the Liver wouldn't also damage the Kidneys too.

Anyway, over the last few months, as I've been working through the grieving process, I gathered a lot of info from my friend Randy's Sister, and in addition to her telling me about him having AIDS for 18 years and that he had only sought treatment for it about 4 months before he died after those purple Sarcoma spots started showing up on his legs, she told me that he was having tooth pain, but he didn't go to a Dentist to get it fixed, he just started taking OTC pain killers for his tooth pain, and I think she said it was Tylenol.

Not a big deal, right? Except that he also drank Alcohol quite a bit, and according to his Sister, he started going out drinking pretty much every night during the last month before he died. We are fairly sure he stopped taking the AIDS drugs during the last month too, but we still aren't sure why he started drinking so much that last month.

So what eventually happened was (his official cause of death) was, that his Liver and Kidneys completely shut down and he died after about 4 days in a coma, on a respirator. But, according to one of our mutual friends, who was out drinking with him the night before he went into the coma, she said he seemed like his usual self, not depressed or anything.

I should say first though, that Randy was never one to follow the instructions of authority figures, like doctors (he was always one of those "...stopped taking the pills when he felt better" even if the Doctor said to take them until gone type people), and I doubt he ever read a pill bottle warning label in his life, so this theory is based on that too. He was also dealing with occasional periods of depression too.

So here's what I think actually happened. The combination of his long term use of the Tylenol combined with his drinking, most likely damaged his Liver and Kidneys. Then when he quit taking his AIDS drugs and, at the same time, started drinking even more, while still taking the Tylenol for the increased tooth pain, all combined to finally destroy his Liver and Kidneys, which lead to his unexpected coma and eventual death.

I don't know much about what happens when someone stops taking their AIDS drugs, I just know it's bad, but I do know one thing. Most people don't know how much damage Tylenol does to your Liver and Kidneys when you combine it with Alcohol, and the strategically mild warning on the Tylenol bottle doesn't help much.

So, does this sound about right? Do you think it would be helpful to point out the Tylenol+Alcohol=Liver Damage thing to his Sister and Parents (who, btw, asked me tell anyone who I might happen to tell, that he died of Liver and Kidney failure, not AIDS)? Or would doing so be like opening an old wound?

Any advice would be helpful, thanks.

(I have past post about the death of my friend in my DU Journal, if you're interested in more background info.)

[Kiouni]

1. only if he OD on it.

but from what you described he could have been over medicating himself so yes its a strong possibility. Overdosing on Tylenol is the number one cause of acute liver failure and alcohol would increase the effects.

[Up2Late]

8. Looks like it's not really that difficult, check this out...

I've never been one for filing what the Republicans love to call "frivolous lawsuits," but this does seem like something the government and our so-called "news media" are downplaying the danger of:

<http://www.brownandcrouppen.com/acetaminophen.html>

Acetaminophen Side Effects - Tylenol Alert

Did you know that a combination of Tylenol and alcohol can cause immediate liver failure?

While the potential of adverse health effects is well known among prescription pharmaceuticals, there are also dangers associated with over-the-counter (OTC) medications such as acetaminophen.

In January 2004, the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) sent a letter to the State Boards of Pharmacy regarding important safety issues for all products that contain Acetaminophen or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Research seems to show that people who frequently use acetaminophen or take higher than recommended dosage are at risk for liver and kidney damage, and gastrointestinal bleeding.

Tylenol Alert
Tylenol may hurt the liver even at the recommended doses, reveals a new study published in the July 5, 2006 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association....

(more at link above)

I guess my next question would be, would his family want to know this info, at this point in their grieving process? Should I let them know?

More here: <http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/otc_toxicity_01.htm>

<http://www.newstarget.com/001523.html>

And here, and the sadest part is, he died about a week after this study was published:

Tylenol found to cause liver damage even in small doses

Wednesday, July 05, 2006 by: NewsTarget

(NewsTarget) -- Healthy adults who took the maximum dose of Tylenol for two weeks were found to have liver damage, according to a study appearing in the latest issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

Researchers instructed 106 study participants to take 4 grams of Tylenol (eight extra-strength tablets) a day for two weeks, with some taking only Tylenol, and some taking Tylenol combined with an opioid painkiller. The rest of the participants were given a placebo.

Nearly 40 percent of the participants taking Tylenol or the Tylenol/opioid combination displayed abnormal liver test results that indicated liver damage, while those taking the placebo showed no damage.

The study's co-author, Dr. Neil Kaplowitz of the University of Southern California said, "I would urge the public not to exceed 4 grams a day. This is a drug that has a rather narrow safety window." Kaplowitz added that heavy drinkers should not exceed 2 grams a day....

(more at link) <http://www.newstarget.com/019555.html>

[Cobalt Violet]

2. Perhaps he was co-infected with HCV.

That certainly could cause liver and kidney failure. There is a high co-infection rate.

[HeeBGBz]

4. That would have been my guess too

n/t

[Up2Late]

5. Ahhhh! That makes more sense. It looks like the time line fits better too!

Thanks!

It looks like there is a LOT of info on HCV to looks through, do you have 2 or 3 info sources you would recommend?

I found this one helpful so far:

<http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepatitis_C.asp#4>

<http://www.hcvadvocate.org/>

[Cobalt Violet]

6. I think that's one of the better sites.

Hep central:
http://www.hepatitis-central.com/?eml=hepcen20

One of my favorite support forum (although I mostly lurk) which has good links for more info:
http://www.hcvsupport.org/forum/index.php You don't need to register to read posts which is good.


http://www.nationalhepatitiscinstitute.org/default.html


If your friend had hcv, hiv and drank a lot, and did the tylenol it think he certainly could have had liver failure.

[Up2Late]

7. Just a few more question, if I could...

Is HCV something most doctors would test for when they begin treating an HIV/AIDS patient?

I guess what I'm wondering is, would there be anyway to figure out if he had Hep C now, even though he did 7 months ago, if he was never tested for it before?

Do doctors usually hold onto blood or tissue samples that would still be testable for HCV after 7 months?

[Cobalt Violet]

10. I'm not sure.

I would think that HCV would be something that the test for since there is a pretty high co-infection rate. However he got he got diagnosed 18 years ago and I don't think they were testing for Hep C back then ( I don't think they called it HCV back then either) but it was around. I don't think all doctors would test for hcv even now even though they should just as they test for TB.

I think the only way to know would be to test anything with his blood. I don't know if doctors keep old samples. It would be in his medical records if they tested him for it. I don't know if you have access to his records.

[bigscott]

3. tylenol and alcohol

are NOT good together - even an otherwise healthy person can trash their liver with too much of both. Tylenol alone is not good in higher-than-recommended doses for long periods of time -

[Up2Late]

9. Check this one out: Liver Patient Wins Suit Against Maker of Tylenol (GHWBush WH Aid)

(This is almost exactly what happened to my friend, except he didn't have the connections to get an instant Liver Transplant when he went into a Coma. I found a lot of these in the NY Times archive by searching with these words: Acetaminophen Liver Damage)

Liver Patient Wins Suit Against Maker of Tylenol

By PHILIP J. HILTS,
Published: October 21, 1994

A Federal court jury in suburban Virginia awarded $8.8 million today to a former White House aide who said the loss of his liver had resulted from his taking the pain reliever Tylenol in combination with his regular dinner consumption of wine.

The 39-year-old plaintiff, Antonio Benedi of Springfield, Va., who was appointments and scheduling secretary to President George Bush, was awarded $7.855 million in compensatory damages and an additional $1 million in punitive damages by the jury, sitting in Alexandria.

Jeff Leebau, a spokesman for Johnson & Johnson, the parent of Tylenol's manufacturer, the McNeil Consumer Products Company, said the verdict would be appealed.

Mr. Benedi's lawsuit said he had been in good health until February 1993, when he began taking Tylenol Extra Strength in the recommended doses to treat the flu. After taking the drug for several days, the suit said, he slipped into a coma. Doctors at Fairfax Hospital in Virginia found that he was suffering from liver failure, and he received a liver transplant several days later....

(more at link) <http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9507E7DF1F3CF932A15753C1A962958260>

[Cobalt Violet]

11. I sounds like it.

J & J said:

"We believe the injuries sustained by the plaintiff," he said, "were caused by a pre-existing viral infection and not by Tylenol."

But not all liver failure is the same.

Check this out:

There are two forms of liver failure.

Acute Liver Failure. Also called Fulminant Hepatic Failure, this condition can develop very rapidly, in days or weeks. Common causes of acute liver failure include:

Exposure to toxic chemicals


Ingestion of poisonous mushrooms (Amanita Phalloides)


Hepatotoxic drugs, such as an overdose of acetaminophen; or an interruption of blood flow to the liver


Simultaneous infection (coinfection) by hepatitis A and C viruses, or hepatitis B and D viruses
Acetaminophen does not appear to damage the liver when ingested as prescribed, even when cirrhosis is present. However, when taken in large amounts, or with alcohol, it can cause massive liver damage and lead to acute liver failure.

Chronic Liver Failure. Also known as end-stage liver disease (ESLD), this condition usually develops slowly, over years to decades. Not everyone with hepatitis C infection will develop end-stage liver disease.


http://www.hepatitisneighborhood.com/content/understanding_hepatitis/complications_of_hepatitisc_145.aspx



I think most people with "pre-existing viral infection" would get the Chronic Liver Failure variety if their liver fails at all. That wouldn't be as sudden as what happened to your friend.


Edited to add one more thing:

Liver failure is a cause of kidney failure.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/acute_kidney_failure/page2_em.htm

[Cobalt Violet]

I just went back and read your old posts linked in your journal.

I'm sorry about your loss. I didn't realize he was such a long time friend of yours. After ready those post it is even more confusing about what actually happen and what actually cause his death. I'm sorry. I hope you get some answers. :hug:


I lost one of my best friends almost 2 years ago. We had been friends for 25 years. He was a gay manic depressive too and committed suicide by jumping off a tall building. He had been fighting it for a long time. It's so difficult to deal with. At least I know what caused his death. It's still disturbing to me because he was under the care of doctors all the time. I feel like he was a guineas pig for the pharm industry. Something went wrong. I'm still realizing just how much of loss it is. I'm sure you must be too.

[Up2Late]

13. Thanks, I appreciate that...

My Brother has struggled with Manic-Depression for at least 25 years. It took about 15 years to find the right combination of drugs to stabilize his condition, so I understand that problem too. :hug:

It's not really that people with Mental Illness a "guineas pig," it's just that the Drug Corps are just still finding and inventing new drugs and treatments for all the different forms of Mental Illness, and you want to talk about Stigma! At LEAST the HIV/AIDS Community has people wearing Red Ribbons and making Quilts for them and having AIDS Awareness walks for them, what color is the ribbon for Mental Illness Awareness? Even I don't know that, is there one? And when was the last time someone held a Mental Illness Awareness Walk or protested outside a Movie Theater showing a Film like "PSYCHO"?

Sorry about that outburst. I tell you, you would be shocked if you could see how crazy he looked near the end, compared to what he looked like most of the time that I knew him. In fact, if you would like to see what I'm talking about, check out this link: <http://www.dailyom.com/users/000/366/000366701.html>

The first picture you see is him at about 21 yrs, back in the mid-1980's, then click the link that says "see all photos," the top left is the most recent photo, the top center is about 5 years old, I think. That most recent picture is very scary to me.

[Cobalt Violet]

12. dupe.