Is there anyone here who has thought about immigrating to Canada?

[Tyo]

Is there anyone here who has done it?

My partner and I have talked about it on and off for the last couple of years. "Time to move to Vancouver" has become our standard response when we hear of some new anti-marriage law being passed here or one more soldier being booted from the military for being gay or lesbian, or some Fundie idiot talk about how gays are destroying the country.

We both have friends and contacts up North and we've checked it out enough to know that it wouldn't be that hard for us to do. We've spent quite a bit of time in Canada and we like it. Sometimes it seems like it would be so easy just to pack up and go and get on with our lives up there. But at this point I guess we are still attached enough to this country to stick it out at least for a little while longer.

[wakeme2008]

1. I thought more of Costa Rica or New Zealand

both have better weather. :)

[Tace]

2. That's Sort Of How I Feel

I figure I'll stick it out until I perceive an immediate threat to the safety of my family. This is my country, afterall. If I think I'm going to be shipped off to a detention camp, I'll jump the fence.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. But I understand, and I could be wrong, but there is a real problem

with getting citizenship is Canada. Have you found this to be true cause I would sure like to leave America.

[woodsprite]

8. My friends have been trying to get permission for over a year.

It figures. They just got the call for them to give the go ahead for the physical appointments and the FBI background check that is required. They applied a year ago. Unfortunately, they got the call the same day she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Now she's not sure if that, or the fact that she's heavy will keep them from passing the physical. Her hubby was going to go work with a professor up there.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. And that is my understanding which could mean some problems

Because my wife, my daughter, and myself have some long term physical problems.

[nebenaube]

4. If they need you it's easy...

Or if you have $300,000 in liquid assets, or currently own a business you are in like Flynn. The problem really is that there is no where to run and the fact is we need you.

[blue cat]

5. Yes

I have day dreamed about it. I would love to be around more people that I see eye to eye with. I live in Tx.

[William769]

6. Why?

This is my damn Country also!

I'll fight to my dying breath to become equal!

[Tyo]

13. I've got to admire that spirit - we're pretty conflicted

There are a lot of people, including my parents, who feel the same way. And to tell you the truth, that's one of the things that's holding us back. Do we have an obligation to stay here and fight? On the other hand why should we have to live in an emotional war zone when there are other options?

What what do we owe this country? I mean we are here simply by accident of birth. It's not that I don't feel lucky. Being born into some countries is being born into a living hell and that's sure not the case here. But I also think that in many ways that this country has broken faith with us by expecting and getting our loyalty and our willingness to die if necessary to defend it while we continue to be treated as second class citizens and are reviled by a large segment of the population.

Didn't mean to get into it quite this deeply, but I guess you can tell that we have a lot of conflicting emotions about the whole thing.

[William769]

17. This Country was taken from my ancestors (Indian)

Then future generations of my family help build this Country. I'll be damned if we get run off again! But I can see how some people have conflicting emotions. I have emotions also ut they are by far not conflicting.

[kdpeters]

28. If you're on DU, then something in you wants to help change

We all get tired and discouraged. I almost lost all hope when it seemed 70% of this country had lost their minds and put their faith in a liar and a warmonger. This doesn't feel like America anymore, but that just means it's our turn to stand up. Rosa Parks, MLK, Harvey Milk, Larry Kramer, and even the Stonewall patrons had other choices that wouldn't have made their lives so complicated, difficult and dangerous. We're lucky they didn't. The least we can do is canvas a couple of neighborhoods for the Democrats.

[napi21]

7. We've talked about moving to Canada, and I looked into it.

Unfortunately, we are too old! There's a test of sorts thatgives so many points for certain things, like able to read and write English, education level, field of employment, etc. You have to have a certain # of points before you will be ocnsidered for canadian citizenship. The BIG problem we had is that you have to subtract so many points for every year older than 40 that you are. We had a nice point total until we hit that one!

I'm really tired of fighting all the crap being dished out by this admin. It's like they're dropping cluster bombs of trouble, and there's so many, we can't deal with them all together!

I feel like the law firm that demands documenets from the opposition and instead of getting 10 as they expected, they get 3,000 boxes of paper, knowing very well that the info demanded is in there somewhere, but the sheer volume of paper will make it nearly impossible for anyone to find!

[swimmernsecretsea]

10. I looked into it.

A former department head of the company I worked for moved up there to be with her husband after they married. She advised me that it's a bit difficult for anyone. She was able to get through easily because she'd married a resident property owner. I still have an interest in doing so. Let us know how it works out.

[davidinalameda]

15. but you wouldn't be able to cat sit for me if you moved

:hi:

[sui generis]

20. you pay someone to watch your

pu... pets?

:P

[swimmernsecretsea]

22. uh-oh. you used the P-word. Pay.

them's fightin' words where he's concerned.

[davidinalameda]

23. I don't pay him

my kities are joys unto themselves and it's a privilege for anyone to have the chance to watch them

[ruiner4u]

11. Yup...

sure have... I talked to my dad about it one day..<btw, im 27 and gay>.. he told me my grandmother has spoken to him about me going up there should things down here ever become difficult. She was born in germany prior to ww2 and sees some of warning signs of history repeating. Anyway, long story short, she knows about me and is worried and will send me off to canada if i ask.

[Siyahamba]

12. I've thought of returning often

But, like most people who have thought about it but haven't yet, picking up and moving isn't easy. It would be tough for my partner to leave his life behind here. It is comforting knowing that if worse came to worse, I can always go back and bring him wih me.

[Not Me]

14. You've captured my sentiments exactly,

I have so much invested in my job, friends, etc. that I would find it hard to leave.
I have advanced degrees, and my field is one that I could find work in Canada. I could also scrape up the $$$ if I had to enter that way. And for what it's worth, my Mom is a Canadian citizen.

I also quarrel with the premise that *I* should have to leave my country.

...just some random thoughts.

[davidinalameda]

16. I have but I've decided against it

[meegbear]

18. I wanted to move to Montreal ...

it's a beatuiful city and the gay district is wonderful. One oppotunity actually came up, a potential job, but I felt I was underqualified and if I moved there and was let go, I'd be screwed, so I didn't follow up on it.

I bought a condo this past June, so I'm in the US for the time being.

[sui generis]

19. They test your "worthiness" first

Something like, what is your highest degree, how many years experience working in your field, are you an educator, how many languages do you speak, and how much do you have in debt, and how much do you have in savings. Have you had a violent criminal offense within the past five or ten years, etc.

You can get around a lot of the "waiting period" if you own residential real estate in Canada, but that essentially means you had to pay cash for it because their mortgage system is so different from here, and has odd rules for non-Canadians.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/howto-e.html

also has some great info: http://canadainternational.gc.ca/gtc/Immigrating_and_Working_In_Canada-en.aspx

[mitchtv]

21. I like Costa Rica

the food, the climate , the men.

[Creideiki]

24. It's too cold

I suffer through winter enough as it is.

[Jamastiene]

25. I have thought about it.

I'm totally in love with anything regarding Canada, England, or Australia. If I ever leave America, those places would be my first choices. I love a lot of the Japanese architecture and the gardens, but I have heard it was very expensive to live there.

Politically, I think I would fit in pretty well in Amsterdam with their lenient laws. Canada also looks very appealing to me. I wish I could go to my last two years of college in Canada and then just stay after I graduate.

[Uncle Zoloft]

26. We have ~ and our choice was to

stay. There is no f#ckin' way a bunch of tight a$$ed laws are going to separate my partner and I from our family.

Nope.

We have considered: Costa Rica, Amsterdam and Vancouver. We live in South Carolina as does my partner's family. We found that there was no reason on earth that our family should be broken apart ~ and there are a bunch of us who live down here (Thanksgiving usually means 25+.) If things get serious we have neighbors who own guns and would use them to protect us ~ one of the strange by-products of living in the South.

Tyo, if you and your partner start a business together that will be mobile you would have a better chance of getting in. We have our own and it gave us quite a few points.

At this point I think we should all stay and really fight. Fight hard, dirty and without fear. We have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

[okasha]

29. Now there's a motto.

"Fight hard, dirty and without fear."

I like it.

[kdpeters]

27. Canada? What good can I do from there? I'm moving to Georgia.

But it's really more like moving back home. Still, life will be much different than San Francisco. But I grew up there, my family is there, and I've been too far away for too long. I don't fear these people and i haven't given up on them. I'm actually looking forward trying to make a difference in an area where everyone doesn't already feel as I do. I noticed there's no Democratic Party presence in my home county. We'll see if we can change that when I arrive. ;)

[NMMNG]

30. Leaving the US is tempting and I've thought of it more than once

in the past six years. However Canada, as appealing as it sounds otherwise, is far too cold.

[Tyo]

31. You have a point

All the heavy considerations aside, that is something to think about. I'm not a snow bunny. If we went we'd probably end up in Vancouver, which we've been told is the warmest city in Canada. But that's kind of like being the highest mountain in Kansas.

[Siyahamba]

32. As for all this "cold" talk...

Yes, if you're from a southern state, Canada will be cold to you. But if you're from the Midwest, the Plains, or New England, odds are there are parts of Canada warmer than where you are right now.

[Tyo]

33. I know

Judging by your avatar I assume you're Canadian and I've gotta say you folks take that constant Frozen North stuff with amazing good humor. In fact it's amazing that you have managed to live next door to us for all this time without going seriously out of your tree.

[NMMNG]

34. I'm originally from New England

But I moved from there to the Mid Atlantic because it was too cold for me. Even here the winters are too cold for me. Anything below 50F is too cold for me really.

[Boomer]

35. Passed the qualification test...

My partner and I had enough points to qualify (despite our age), and we even went so far as to talk to a lawyer that specializes in helping gay partners immigrate to Canada. The application forms are still on top of my file cabinet.

But in the end we reluctantly decided against the move. At the age of 50-plus, the cost and effort of uprooting our lives seemed overwhelming. Then my partner's father died, leaving her mother alone, and although there are other siblings, there was still a sense of needing to pull our share of caring for her.

I'm still not sure we made the right choice.

Honestly, we don't much like this country anymore. It's not just because of the current Bush regime, either, which we see as a symptom of an underlying sickness. It's the rising fundamentalism, the spreading anti-intellectualism, a vulgar and sophomoric popular culture, and the underlying consumer greed that is rotting out all our cultural and political institutions.

Not all Americans share these traits, but the proportion of the population that is mean, ignorant, and greedy has shifted. It may not be a majority yet, but the numbers are growing rather than decreasing, and it has soured all aspects of the culture. I can fight a political regime, but how do you fight a culture?

[bliss_eternal]

36. As much as I would hate to see anyone here leave...

because we need all the good fighters that we can get, I would TOTALLY understand if you decided to leave for Canada--or anywhere else that treats the gay community as human beings.

Forgive me for barging in on this thread. Just thought I'd share. BTW, as a woman of color in an interracial relationship I've thought about leaving this country every single day since election 2004.

:hi: