Russian Orthodox Sever Ties With Swedish Lutherans Over Gay Blessings

[davidinalameda]

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon05/12/122705russia.htm

The Russian Orthodox Church has severed relations with the Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Sweden for approving blessing ceremonies for same-sex couples.

“We have received with great disappointment and grief the news that not only does the Lutheran Church of Sweden not oppose so-called homosexual marriages, but has even ruled to establish an official blessing ceremony,” the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church said in a statement.

The two denominations had established ecumenical ties but the relationship became strained after the Swedish Church voiced its support for same-sex couples.

The Evangelical-Lutherans' governing body voted two-to-one in October to create a liturgy for blessing same-sex unions. (story)

[YOY]

1. Ironic...

That the Russion word for God is the nasty Swedish word for 'homosexual': Bog (Bowg)

[sui generis]

2. Bog is my co-pilot

and he looks fine in his tailored Navy dress whites.

Well, what did they expect from the orthodoxy.

What cannot adapt is doomed to extinction. If the russian orthodoxy and the roman catholic churches can't adapt to modern times in the developed western world then they are doomed to become third world, and finally marginal religions.

Devout young'uns in those faiths don't even agree with their stick-up-the-ass uptight elders; that's why these kinds of rifts are bound to become more common.

[YOY]

4. You would be hard pressed to find the 'devout young'uns'

In both religions and geographic areas. As a result the impact they both have on their respective cultures is not that significant IMHO. I have lived in both areas and do not see strong evidence otherwise. I think it might actually be healthy and easy to say that the culture of both countries inflicts the religion and not the other way around. Russians can be downright homophobic. Sweden has such a culture that sees it merely as a normal alternative lifestyle. I have heard of families with gay sons or daughters that would actually let their partners sleep over at the family homestead (as alien as that may sound.) The Swedes (and perhaps all Scandinavians to that extent.) don't seem to have a problem with sex in general.

Communism spread the seeds of Atheism that still flows well in Russia (and Eastern Europe in general). Most of the young folks I have known there couldn't give a lesser shit about God, but are more immediately driven to survival mode of immediate needs. In the recent the Fundies and Born-agains do rather well there as they seek out the desperate and forlorn (they have those in droves.) That is a scary thing...

In Sweden, faith seemed to be a sort of a sideline hobby for those interested in it. Sure they are mostly Lutheran, but most of them are not adamant believers and a strong sense of intellectual agnosticism as well as disdain for organized religion in general is prevalent.

I'm just telling you what I've witnessed as a straigt man who has lived in both countries...

[sui generis]

5. heh

as far as I know most visiting in-laws and future in-laws don't do the nasty at the parent's house. Most. I wouldn't hesitate to put my daughter and her boyfriend together - it's not like they wouldn't manage to find a way to do whatever they wanted to anyway. Just make sure they're in the bedroom over the kitchen where everyone can here 'em if they get crazy and start breaking headboards while they're knocking boots.

My parents have wisely always put my partner and I in the same bed - or else I'd just stay someplace else when visiting. They introduce him as my partner and their "other son" to everyone - and believe me I have never even been remotely tempted to join the one-floor high club at parent's house.

***

But you are right about culture driving religion. That's why those kinds of religions get traction in authoritarian and paternalistic cultures; those cultures and those forms of religion are cut from the same cloth. But that's also why when a culture changes and matures that a religion that doesn't adapt and change with the culture is doomed, in ten years, in fifty years, it's all the same. In the communication age it is no longer possible for religion to successfully drive culture, although they may win a skirmish here and there.

[YOY]

6. So true...

However, it seems that in the US as of late it is the other way around with religion trying to drive culture instead of adapting. Perhaps it is some religious that will fade out (or continue to fade out as they already have begun to) and become mere shadows of themselves (very noisy shadows at times...) A religion that is authoritarian and paternalistic and that seeks to dominate culture could very well doom the culture as well as it drags it down with simplistic allegory and cookie cutter black and white logic (e.g. the holy book says this and it must be 100% right and taken literally.)

Regarding the self destruction of such religions. I am not to sure that I am in agreement to the communication age being the stimuli for this, but perhaps multi-culturalism and globalism (in the cultural sense, not the economic.) As cultures are forced to combine and interact as well as see the human face behind the cultural mask. Religion often seeks to demonify the unknown (as is human nature) and often has a prepared answer as to how it is to be dealt with. Forced interaction can defeat demon of ignorance and create a society that need be more acceptable of the alien. This forced acceptance (or complete self-destruction if it would fail) may create the need for religion to return to more spiritual and philosophical values as opposed to literal interpretations and fundamentalism.

Actually the sleepovers I was referring to (and it goes for straight kids as well) were usually involving teenage or college age kids and not fully-grown adults back for a visit. It definitely was not a sort of 'welcome for the holidays you can sleep in the same bed' thing, but an actually 'feel free to bump uglies' thing. I could hardly imagine my Catholic American parents letting me do that with my HS girlfriend let alone a gay teenager's parents being open minded and accepting enough to do that. I wonder if that attitude could be reflected on gay teenage suicide rates with some statistics...

Sounds like you've got some decent parents. I could only wish the same on my one gay friend...

Now you've got me typing novels Sui. Slow day at work anyways...

[xchrom]

3. ''i'm not SPEAKING to you!''

my disdain grows every day for conservatives -- and that's hard to do.