Straightening out distinctions between gay, lesbian

[kweerwolf]

Apparently, in writing about people who are homosexual, the word gay no longer covers both men and women. (Contrariwise, the word guy, as I noted in a recent column, now does apply to both sexes when taken together, though seldom to women individually.)

Most stylebooks are a half-step behind current usage. Gay, alone, is "acceptable as popular synonym for both male and female homosexuals (noun and adjective)," advises the AP, "although it is generally associated with males, while lesbian is the more common term for female homosexuals." The Times says "Gay(s) may refer to homosexual men or more generally to homosexual men and women. In specific references to women, lesbian is preferred. When the distinction is useful, write gay men and lesbians." It seems to me that the usage is now the specifically inclusive gay men and lesbians whether the distinction is useful or not.

Why is gay no longer encompassing enough? "Historically, gay represented both homosexual men and women and technically still does," says Chris Crain, editor of the gay weeklies The Washington Blade and The New York Blade, "but a number of gay women felt that gay was too male-associated and pressed to have lesbians separately identified so they weren't lost in the gay-male image." That led to such names as the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. (The Washington Blade began in 1969 as The Gay Blade, a play on an old expression about a gallant.)

Diane Anderson-Minshall, executive editor of Curve, a lesbian magazine in San Francisco, agrees that the one-word adjective was expanded to set homosexual women apart: "When, in the queer world, you say 'the gay community,' the majority of the time that conjures up San Francisco's largely male Castro District, or West Hollywood or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, so interjecting the word lesbian into the mix is a necessary reminder that we — gay women — are not simply a subset of that larger male world but rather our own distinct community of individuals." The editor freely uses "queer," formerly a slur, to include not only lesbians but "bisexual women and lesbian-identified transgender women." This leads to the initialese LGBT, standing for "Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender," as well as its gay-first GLBT.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3440294

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[soothsayer]

3. Wait, so I'm only gay when I'm having sex? Otherwise...neutral?

[begin_within]

7. If it's with the same gender as yourself

[Name removed]

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[begin_within]

11. But it could change at any time!

[justin899]

16. No, it does NOT change at any time

Gays do NOT go str8 "at any time."

This is the same identical bullshit anti-gay activists use when denying basic rights to gays in this country. They claim sexuality is fluid and gays can be "changed" into heterosexuals therefore, they contend, there shouldn't be gay rights at all. It's BULLSHIT. MOST people are NOT bisexual.

[begin_within]

24. You're being as intolerant as the republicans are. There are two desires,

a desire for men and a desire for women. That's all there is to it. There is no "gay" or "straight" and the church types who try to change people from "straight" to "gay" are simply wasting their time, because there is no such thing as either "gay" or "straight." It is a myth for people to identify themselves or others as "gay" or "straight." There is only desire and the acting out of desire in the form of sexual activity, period.

[justin899]

26. People who love each other have more to their relationship than just sex

You keep suggesting relationships are only about sex. That's nonsense.

[William769]

28. I think you have me mistaken for someone else.

[babylonsister]

18. Dumbass, bigoted idiot? Did you really have to

go there to express yourself?:eyes:

[justin899]

22. Yes!

Been there, done that with people who keep insisting sexuality is only about so-called 'sexual behavior' and therefore gay Americans don't deserve equal rights.

Same bullshit rationale and I'm not going to be nice to bigots.

GLBT Americans are the only minority NOT protected by federal anti-discrimination laws and THIS is the argument used by people who oppose gay rights.

So screw it. I'm not going to suck up to heterosexists to get along with them!

[William769]

23. Not to rain on your parade but

The language you used is not tolerated here on DU.

[justin899]

27. I'm not at all surprised self-loathers would defend bigotry

by their fellow heterosexist supremacists.

[begin_within]

25. You're being just as intolerant as the republicans.

a desire for men and a desire for women. That's all there is to it. There is no "gay" or "straight" and the church types who try to change people from "straight" to "gay" are simply wasting their time, because there is no such thing as either "gay" or "straight." It is a myth for people to identify themselves or others as "gay" or "straight." There is only desire and the acting out of desire in the form of sexual activity, period.

[justin899]

29. You may claim it is a "waste of time" but people who are victimized by

these people are not merely "wasting their time" but are being harmed by it.

Sexual activity is NOT the only thing relationships are based upon. To attempt to define sexuality as being about SEX ONLY is ludicrous.

[begin_within]

33. OK, then I'm gay. Now you have a label to discriminate against me with.

[William769]

5. Well I am like 7-up, never had it never will.

I don't see how it is that easy to "jump" from one to the other.

[justin899]

8. WRONG! This is the homophobic bullshit "ex-gay" bigots use

Maybe bisexuals choose who they have sex with, but MOST people do not. Sexuality isn't about who you have sex with. It's who you're attracted to.

This is the same bullshit reasoning religionist homophobes use when opposing gay rights.

[begin_within]

13. Everyone chooses who they have sex with.

(Unless they are being raped, obviously)

[justin899]

20. NOPE!

Choosing WHO you have sex with isn't the same as 'choosing' the sex of the person you have sex with. Most people are attracted to ONE sex. To suggest otherwise is to show ignorance of sexuality in general.

[Boomer]

15. Let me guess, you're a guy, right?

>> It's all sex, and nothing more. <<

Sex is not even half of it for some of us. I've never been involved with a male, doubt I ever will be, because I fall in love with women.

The romantic love comes first and foremost, and sex is (for me) just one way in which to confirm and express that love, but it's not the most important. And the older I get (over 50) the less sex means in the equation. Living together, shopping together, talking, laughing, walking our dogs, visiting friends and family -- these are the daily expressions of being in love with someone.

[melnjones]

19. What the hell... nt

[soothsayer]

2. Are there more gay men than there are us lesbians? Sure seems

like it.

[Boomer]

21. Yes and no

Men tend to be more "definitively" homosexual or heterosexual, which is simply a crude conceptual way of acknowledging the narrow focus of male sex drive.

For whatever biochemical, genetic reasons (and I do believe it's inherently biological), males have a strong tendency to develop a set of arousal cues, at times so specific that they can't be aroused without "it", what ever it might be: Big boobs, blonde hair, red hair, high heels, feet, penis size, the list of fetish objects goes on and on.

Women are much less likely to have a strong, overt arousal to a narrow set of cues. There sexuality is more general, more likely to be tied to emotional factors, or even just more likely to be completely overlooked. Given the social pressure to be "straight", more women probably choose traditional lifestyles if they have any degree of attraction to men (and simply ignore their atractions to women). Other women don't even recognize the difference or believe themselves to be "frigid" for not responding to men.

[William769]

4. IMHO

I think we have more to worry about than this.

[jaded_at_best]

6. non-issue

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. I'm straight

but this would piss ME off.

[sam sarrha]

12. actually i think its just that Straight Men find Lesbians more interesting

there is actually nothing technical about it....:popcorn:

[justin899]

14. The word, 'Homosexual,' is offensive

Usage of the word wrongly implies that sexuality is only about sex. It's not.

So gay/lesbian should be preferred.

[Siyahamba]

43. Unfortunately, "gay" seems to have been co-opted

As a synonym for "bad" or "uncool." :(

[ToolTex]

17. Not a new issue, and still a non-issue to most.

(And Bob, you don't know what you are writing about).

[Rowdyboy]

30. Interesting thread....to bad it was hijacked by an idiot who has no idea

what he's talking about.

Hey, its Sunday morning, why don't I become hetero today-go get me some down at the Star Lite Lounge? Why don't I? Because I'm fucking gay-I don't want women, never have. I've been in bed with several beautiful women. Didn't work. Why? Because I like men. The idea that its something you can switch on or off is such right-wing bullshit that I can't believe anyone is even half-assed suggesting it on a progressive Democratic board.

Again, your initial thread was interesting. A few of the responses, however, betray ignorance beyond belief...

[William769]

31. I tried to bring up your very point.

But nobody responded. Such is life.

[Rowdyboy]

34. Happens to me 90% of the time...usually when I think I've made a

brilliant observation.

As you say, such is life. Or, in the words of Kurt Vonnegut, "and so it goes..."

[justin899]

32. Absolutely True

This person is usinig the same argument James Dobson uses when pushing state amendments prohibiting gay rights laws.

[Rowdyboy]

35. Its so simple....All we need to do is love Jesus and someone of the

opposite sex and everything will be just lovely.

Sorry, Doctor Dobson, but the "opposite sex" thing just isn't happening in our household-not in this lifetime anyway.

[loro mi dicevano]

36. Something about the word 'lesbian' rubs me the wrong way.

It's one of those words in the English language that I just don't like, for whatever reason. Ughhh.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[William769]

38. And the band plays on.

:cry:

[Skarbrowe]

39. To the original post, I always thought of "gay" as queer for both sexes.

I have no idea why the word "Lesbian", which I always capitalize for no reason in particular, was uncomfortable for some reason. You can call me gay, you can call me queer, you can call me Ray, but, I don't really like to be called a Lesbian. Hmmm. It's really a rather pretty word. Lesssbbiiaan. Maybe it's the way it has been said over the years. Are you a, a, LESBIAN???? Cringe. Now, if someone said to me, "Are you gay?" I would lie and say no, but I wouldn't be squeaked about it. :) Hey, I was in the military. Not like I could be truthful or anything. Plus, I kept my business to myself. Now, who the f cares?

Back in the day, I knew many, many women who had absolutely nothing to do with men and many, many men who had nothing to do with women when it came to sexual relations. I could be attracted to both. My deepest feelings, my falling in loves, were 99 per cent for women. There were a few men that I fell for and had rather strong feelings, but never anything compared to what I felt for women.

One wonderful thing about getting older is that I don't give a blehh about either one as far as wanting a relationship. BUT, I can still get all day dreamy about a beautiful creature of either sex.

Ah oh. I hope I didn't give credence to Bob's musings. Not my intention.

[MuseRider]

40. Hey hey

breeder. The first time someone refered to me like that I did not know what to make of it. I find it rather funny but never know if it is meant that way or not. I far prefer it to straight which implies that others are somehow crooked.

I came into this thread to learn something and now I am quite confused.

I'll try later after my brain has cleared and my stomach has stopped hurting.

Boy did you ever nail it with that last sentence.

[mitchtv]

41. I was gonna jump on this thread and kick some

ass but you guys took care of the hijacker, pronto. I just got back from Palm Springs Pride Parade watching all those Non gays being all confused about who the are. Just switching sexual identities back and forth at random.
I think Gay People as both. I really don't like queer. I am older and where I come from , them's fighting words,

[applegrove]

42. "Gay" is like "Mankind" a coverall. You have to wonder if the grammer

is deep within our brains. I mean after millions of years.. who knows. Maybe it is wired that way.