"Obama, It's Time to Step Up" -- Dustin Lance Black

[Ignis]

(Mr. Black won an Oscar in '09 for writing the original screenplay for Milk.)

Mr. President, please consider the LGBTQ children living in Mississippi, Arkansas, and in my home state of Texas. Are their lives less worthy of protection than those in New York, Massachusetts, and Iowa?

If the civil rights of this country’s minorities are left to the states, then this will become a checkerboard nation where some areas are free and some areas are not free. Children in some states will be told to lift their heads high and others will be told they are second-class citizens, less than, and that their love and their future families are not worthy of this nation’s protection and admiration.

Fourteen times, the Supreme Court has held that marriage is a fundamental liberty. Marriage is the birthright of all Americans and “the most important relation in life.” On none of these occasions did the justices restrict their decision to couples living in one state or another.

Forty-four years ago, the court dismissed the notion that marriage can be decided by the states when it unanimously held that “the freedom to marry, or not to marry a person of another race rests with the individual, and not with the state.” Loving v. Virginia struck down anti-miscegenation laws nationally—not just in Virginia. Until that point, the president’s own parents would have been subject to arrest in more than a dozen states for the crime of loving each other and having their relationship recognized publicly.

-- The Daily Beast @ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/26/gay-marriage-allowed-in-new-york-dustin-lance-black-responds.html

The whole article / open letter is a great read, but I thought the four paragraphs above were particularly great.

[dennis4868]

1. Change comes from the people....

not from the top (Obama)....Obama is not your daddy!

[MNBrewer]

2. I seem to remember somewhere... oh YES, from the Obama campaign

Change you can believe in.

Are you saying that he's a liar, too?

[qazplm]

3. DADT is change is it not?

Guy makes the largest leap in the history of gay rights, but yet he's still looked upon as somehow a disappointment, I don't get it.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal Veteran]

8. I'm in the "give credit where due and push him where he needs to go"...

For myself, I still believe President Obama is ally, not an enemy and I have no reason to suspect he's secretly plotting to undermine equality for gays.

To do so would be to surrender to pessimism. It's very odd to me that even when he tries, at best he gets very begrudging "meh" from some unexpected corners.

I know people that adore Bill Clinton and practically worship him while giving him a pass on DADT and DOMA.

I don't understand it at all.

[joeybee12]

26. Maybe because we have Holy Joe Lieberman to thank for working on this...

and maybe if Obama hadn't fought it in court it would have gone away sooner...oh yeah, it's still there in case you haven't noticed.

[Ignis]

28. Do you mean the DADT under which people were discharged LAST WEEK?

Not a whole lot of change there quite yet.

[MNBrewer]

35. Using your criteria, should we be celebrating George W. Bush?

For being the 3rd most pro-gay president ever?

[dennis4868]

4. No...

Obama was telling people that change comes from them...vote the right dems into office and change will happen....we had way too many DINOs and certainly way too many repubs to get all the change we wanted....CHANGE HAPPENS FROM THE PEOPLE NOT FROM THE LEADERS!

[Sapphocrat]

11. So, then you agree that...

...criticism of Obama's foot-dragging behind the rest of the nation on civil rights is legitimate.

Thanks! Glad to know you're going to put the heat on, too! Your calls and letter to the White House are much appreciated!

Uh... you are phoning and writing the White House, without let-up, to call for President Obama's definitive, unequivocal, and irrevocable support of civil rights... right? That is what you meant, isn't it?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[dbackjon]

14. Yes, he is dragging his feet

His opposition to equality for all Americans has been used against us.

And yes, if he came out for federal marriage it WOULD change a lot.


MY EQUALITY IS NOT QUESTIONABLE. FUCK YOU AND THE HIGH HORSE YOU RODE IN ON. Dispicable excuse for a Democrat.

[dennis4868]

17. It would not change a thing....

you think all of a sudden the repubs would say, "Gay Marriage Gay Marriage Gay Marriage!" What about other dem presidents that were against Gay Marriage, that was okay? Don't remember any outrage against them! I also think it's a legitimate issue and can see where dems would be against gay marriage (even though I am for it). Obama is for equal rights for all - that's why he is civil unions with all the rights as any other married couple.

[dbackjon]

19. No one else is President now. They don't matter

No, Obama is NOT for equal rights for all. Leaving it to the States, and wanting civil unions is NOT EQUALITY.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. I agree our rights our not negotiable,

However, it is more a question of style.

Allow me to explain.

I don't feel very welcome here of late.

That's one of the reasons I avoid posting in this forum much. I certainly don't have to prove my right to be here. I'm a gay man with HIV who grew up in a Southern Baptist household in rural Georgia who as of April celebrated 20 years with a man I want to someday be able to legally say is my husband.

No one could be happier than I am for the people New York who still have mountains to climb with their victory. And the fight isn't over. Even for the people of New York.
I think when it comes to the "whole package" neither Cuomo nor Obama have it all. I think that if a bill could make it through the congress to repeal DOMA and make marriage equality the law of the land, Obama would sign it. I know people want more from him and that's a good thing, but there is is downright animosity, hatred, and contempt for Obama by a segment of our community and I don't understand that. Could Obama do more? Could he be perhaps be more blunt and passionate in our defense? Hell yes! But that, in and of itself, doesn't make Obama an enemy to our community and it saddens me that many see him as such.

I think what my point here is that Cuomo may be willing to stand up for gay rights in a vocal way, but that's one issue. On some other issues, he's hardly the paragon of liberal values. His support for equality doesn't give him a pass on his austerity positions. He has earned praise on this front, but let's not pretend he's got our back when it comes to education, unions, health care, infrastructure, affordable housing, taxes, etc.

Cuomo isn't necessarily FDR and MLK all rolled up into one nice little package because of this one thing. Apparently neither is Obama, as much as we wanted him to be.
I've spent a lifetime waiting for the perfect leader. I am resigned to the fact that I may never see that. Honestly though, I can't really find it in myself to wash my hands of everything that doesn't rise to my expectations.

From where I stand, President Obama has been an ally. Of course it will never be enough until we stand as equals in society.

However, throwing our allies under the bus because we don't like their style is a piss poor reason for internecine squabbling.

[dsc]

23. I don't think Cuomo deserves a free pass either

but you really are going to go there on education and taxing the wealthy. Do the words Bush tax cuts mean anything to you? I think Cuomo is likely slightly worse on this since he apparently didn't believe that the taxes were necessary but in terms of actual policy that happened the same thing happened. Rich people didn't have their taxes raised.

[Sapphocrat]

20. Well now, you bring up two very interesting points of discussion.

First: Are you telling me that when President Obama "comes out" for something, his support has no effect? That's news to me, Denny, in light of all the blood, sweat and tears he spent over an entire year getting healthcare reform passed! I mean, seriously, dude -- President Obama even got that heathen hold-out Kucinich to buckle under and support The O Plan!

So, are you saying that President Obama can't just wave a magic wand to make things happen -- in which case, he deserves no credit whatsoever for healthcare reform?

And -- following your logic -- are you suggesting we primary Obama??? You wrote: "Change comes from the people...get more and better progressives in congress..." Well, what about the presidency?

Do you mean you think the presidency is useless -- that the President can't do anything without a Dem (super-) majority?

Do you think we should draft a more liberal primary contender to run against Obama???

Second (and this is really a question, and not a conclusion): How do feel about about same-sex marriage rights? You state, without any equivocation whatsoever: "...it's very questionable whether gay marriage is a civil rights issue..."

Does that mean you believe "it's very questionable whether gay marriage is a civil rights issue"?

Clue me in, Denny, so I can get a better bead on our common ground -- because I can't conceive, for even a millisecond, that you, personally, might think my rights are not civil rights.

Clear it up for me, Denny (with apologies if "Denny" is too familiar; if so, tell me, and I will address you otherwise) -- you have me seriously confused. Very interested, but very confused.

P.S. You ask: "You think if Obama tomorrow comes out for Gay Marriage on a federal level it will change a thing?" I believe two things:

1) If President Obama had come out three years ago (publicly, forcibly, and not in a weasely letter to a little-know gay-Dem group) for marriage equality (it's not "gay marriage," Denny, but just marriage), a great percentage of his supporters who had voted for him might well have hesitated before before voting to strip G/L Californians of their right to marry, and:

2) If you are talking about the Warren Court when you refer to a "liberal leaning court," then I will ask why you are throwing that straw man out there. This is not the era of the Warren Court; this is here and now.

P.P.S. May I ask how old you are? I'm just curious, as I perceive a gaping chasm between us; I cannot fathom why, possibly save a generational gap.

[Ignis]

32. "it's very questionable whether gay marriage is a civil rights issue"

Really? Really?! :banghead:

I can't fucking believe we have to have this same conversation daily at DU.

Read the article I posted in the OP again.

[Creideiki]

21. You never really loved Him!

:cry:

[mitchtv]

6. he's not a fierce advocate either

[dennis4868]

7. and you know that from....

WHAT? I assume you are involved in the closed door meetings? Obama is also a realist unlike many here who seem to think Obama, as president can FUCK YOU CONGRESS, I am doing what I want and passing the laws I want without you....that's not reality. FDR also had many liberals bash him as well because he was a realist.

[dbackjon]

15. Are you married?

[dennis4868]

16. I am not interested in you....

hahaha! :-)

[Puglover]

25. hahahahaha

He didn't ask you if you were interested in him. He asked you if you are married. hahahahahaha

[dennis4868]

33. then why would he ask me if i was married?

[dbackjon]

34. To see if you are willing to give up rights you may currently enjoy

[Puglover]

36. I thought that was obvious.

Guess not. :eyes:

[Creideiki]

22. Maybe if all of us at the bottom did Obama a big favor

I think we should all buy copies of the speeches of FDR and send them to Obama. Maybe if He got enough, He'd actually read them.

We gave Him the power by voting Him into office. It is now His duty to the people who elected Him to get off His butt and lead.

[Ignis]

27. Hey, that's fucking helpful.

Except for the helpful part.

[bigwillq]

9. K and R (nt)

[Ignis]

31. Thanks for the kick, but careful with the Rec...

We don't want DUers to waste their beautiful minds on something like this, y'know.

[Sapphocrat]

10. "Fourteen times, the Supreme Court has held that marriage is a fundamental liberty."

..that is, for serial killers, rapists, and other violent sociopaths -- but not for us:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x484006

Please watch the video through to its completion.

[NMMNG]

12. Just goes to show you where we rank in society

But of course that's not anti-gay bigotry. :sarcasm:

[Ignis]

29. Wow. Thanks for the link, Sapphocrat. Missed it on first posting.

:wow:

[The Philosopher]

24. It's really a shame he hasn't promoted equality more

Here in Texas, we have a governor who publicly admits to working for only a select group of Texans and if you don't fit the criteria, you're not and shouldn't be a part of the state. I honestly don't want to see my President saying or doing something similar. I don't want to see anyone arguing for him to do that, either. I am an American citizen and I want to be treated as such, with all the rights and privileges of an American. I don't want to be treated as anything else simply because someone's opinion about me is negative or my very presence threatens their religious belief. When the President says it's up to the states, when he says he doesn't believe in gay marriage in an interview because of his religious belief and then proceeds to not vocally support our rights outside of his religious beliefs, he's promoting the idea not only among Democrats but also Republicans that I am not a full citizen of this country, that I am against his idea of what an American citizen is.

Who knows if the President realizes what he is doing. He does have a lot on his plate. But the size of that plate should make him even more sensitive to what people are saying, not shrug off criticisms. There are some people who say, oh, those constituents have a problem--I'll listen to them. Then they either do nothing or do something. So far, the President seems to not even do that. It's a defensive posture every time. It's not productive and it's insulting.

It's also insulting to claim that his support for equal rights would be damning. If the President causes that sort of reaction, then should he really be our candidate? I wholeheartedly believe otherwise. He would do so much good being vocal in ways he isn't. He is criticized heavily that he is all words and not deeds. Let him not take that as a critique, a fault, but a positive. Let him use it as a weapon to carve justice for all Americans, and not just to fund his campaigns.

If we're supposed to agree that our greatest leader is supposed to keep quiet and not lead on this, that is the same as saying we should fight prejudice and ignorance with our very existence. That we should stay in the closet, not be who we are, instead do what those who would oppose us want so we can be on their good side, and some time in the future hope they vote our way. One may say, "No, no...that's not what I meant." But it is what's being said.

"If the civil rights of this country’s minorities are left to the states, then this will become a checkerboard nation where some areas are free and some areas are not free." -- That should be enough to damn the doubters and let his voice sing.

[Ignis]

30. ^^^ Some great points here.

:thumbsup:

"It's a defensive posture every time. It's not productive and it's insulting." Agreed, and it's disheartening that more people on the Left can't see it.