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Would the gay community demobilize politically if DADT and DOMA were ended?

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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:15 PM
Original message
Would the gay community demobilize politically if DADT and DOMA were ended?
Edited on Mon Oct-18-10 03:19 PM by kenny blankenship
I say "gay" specifically because, as far as I can tell, repealing DADT and DOMA would primarily benefit homosexual men and women and bisexuals. I'm pretty sure the Army will still find a way to have its "problems" with trans- folk of all kinds, even after DADT is acknowledged as gone forever. (They are so into uniforms and rigid gender roles in the military!)

What do you think? Will gay people drift away from political engagement after DOMA and DADT are just bad memories? What issues would keep us mobilized and bound to the Democratic Party once marriage is widely available to gay people and our full citizenship isn't denied by the military? Do we think that altruistically fighting for the rights of other sexual minorities would really be sufficient to keep the whole LGBTIQXYZ community in the political game? Could fear of losing our money and votes explain why Democrats just can't seem to bring themselves to do the right thing for an important constituency?
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Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even after DOMA is ended, the marriage battle will continue on a state level
Edited on Mon Oct-18-10 03:20 PM by Smashcut
Not to mention states that still don't have anti-discrimination laws, anti-bullying, etc.

So no, I don't think DADT and DOMA ending will shut down gay activism.

Democrats do little to nothing for GLBT people because they are allowed to get away with it by gays and straights alike, not because they're afraid that helping us will lead us to lose interest.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Doyou think there will ever be a time when gay kids are NOT bullied?
I don't.

Plenty still out there to fight for.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. there's always an unfair battle going on, &, as so many people who snidely remark that it's not all
about us, we of course care about all of the other issues going on around us, not just our own. As I've written, I push for equality and fairness for everyone in all areas of public life, and it surely won't end just because a couple of nasty laws/policies are no more - as the bigots live on in every walk of life you can imagine!
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. NAACP still exists
As does SNCC if I recall correctly. It's generally known as "keeping the gains".
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The Philosopher Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. No
There's still ENDA to deal with.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. +1
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SocialistLez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's possible...it seems the mainstream gay rights movement is all about marriage
::sigh::

www.beyondmarriage.org

Whenever I mention that marriage is the wrong goal, IMO, it seems like a bunch of people attack me. I'm not saying on this site but on other sites I peruse.

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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. well, that is your opinion, but
It's not the wrong goal... full equality in all aspects of society is the goal, and that includes marriage for those who want it. Can't have one without the other.
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SocialistLez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What about those who don't want to marry?
Did you even visit the website beyondmarriage.org?

I'll copy and paste somethin' for ya:
"Meanwhile, the LGBT movement has recently focused on marriage equality as a stand-alone issue. While this strategy may secure rights and benefits for some LGBT families, it has left us isolated and vulnerable to a virulent backlash. We must respond to the full scope of the conservative marriage agenda by building alliances across issues and constituencies. Our strategies must be visionary, creative, and practical to counter the right's powerful and effective use of marriage as a “wedge” issue that pits one group against another. The struggle for marriage rights should be part of a larger effort to strengthen the stability and security of diverse households and families. To that end, we advocate:

Ø Legal recognition for a wide range of relationships, households and families – regardless of kinship or conjugal status.

Ø Access for all, regardless of marital or citizenship status, to vital government support programs including but not limited to health care, housing, Social Security and pension plans, disaster recovery assistance, unemployment insurance and welfare assistance.

Ø Separation of church and state in all matters, including regulation and recognition of relationships, households and families.

Ø Freedom from state regulation of our sexual lives and gender choices, identities and expression.

Marriage is not the only worthy form of family or relationship, and it should not be legally and economically privileged above all others. A majority of people – whatever their sexual and gender identities – do not live in traditional nuclear families. They stand to gain from alternative forms of household recognition beyond one-size-fits-all marriage. For example:

· Single parent households

· Senior citizens living together and serving as each other’s caregivers (think Golden Girls)

· Blended and extended families

· Children being raised in multiple households or by unmarried parents

· Adult children living with and caring for their parents

· Senior citizens who are the primary caregivers to their grandchildren or other relatives

· Close friends or siblings living in non-conjugal relationships and serving as each other’s primary support and caregivers

· Households in which there is more than one conjugal partner

· Care-giving relationships that provide support to those living with extended illness such as HIV/AIDS.

The current debate over marriage, same-sex and otherwise, ignores the needs and desires of so many in a nation where household diversity is the demographic norm. We seek to reframe this debate. Our call speaks to the widespread hunger for authentic and just community in ways that are both pragmatic and visionary. It follows in the best tradition of the progressive LGBT movement, which invented alternative legal statuses such as domestic partnership and reciprocal beneficiary. We seek to build on these historic accomplishments by continuing to diversify and democratize partnership and household recognition. We advocate the expansion of existing legal statuses, social services and benefits to support the needs of all our households."


SO yes, what about those couples who don't want to marry?
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Well, that is your opinion, but
none of that is precluded by marriage equality. The fight will obviously not be over once marriage equality is obtained.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. I suppose so. Didn't the black community demobilize politically after Brown v. Board of Ed?
:sarcasm:
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not at all.
Beyond DADT, DOMA and ENDA, just about any local or national issue impacts the LGBTQ community in one share or form.
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SocialistLez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think once marriage is achieved, a lot of middle to upper class gays
will abandon the fight.

Some of them may not have to worry about losing their job to being gay or lesbian.
They don't have to worry about fighting in the military.

You kind of get where I'm going with this?

It seems like so many in the LGB community ONLY care about same-sex marriage. It's infuriating.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. In most of the country you can still be fired for being gay...
...or not hired or denied housing.
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BillStein Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. When I first got involved in gay rights...
back in the early 1970's, legalized gay marriage wasn't even thought about. When it emerged as an issue, many LGBT people were surprised by the fight for marriage. A lot of us(myself included) thought it was the "wrong" battle, and that opposition would be too tough. I thought the right to serve in the military was first, then ENDA, and then maybe marriage.

I stand corrected! I'm thankful for the courage shown by the early challengers- the campaign for legal marriage has done more than almost anything else to show that LGBT's are like everyone else, including in our differing opinions about marriage.

I dream of a day when there is no need for LGBT rights groups, but until that day, I intend to keep on fighting.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Of course not. There will always be a fight for equal rights.
Equal rights are never wholly given, but only given piecemeal. So we will have more to fight for.

And any rights we achieve will always need to be defended. Anything we don't defend will be taken back, and lost. Bigots will always be more than happy to take away or rights the moment we stop defending them.

The LGBT Community will ALWAYS need to be here defending ourselves, fighting for our rights.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. rights can be taken away just as easily as they are granted
just because DADT has been overturned, that doesn't mean the issue has gone away

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
16. no. someone would hurt a gay teen and we would all be reminded the movement is bigger
besides the movement is already bigger, there are many things on the mainstream agenda beyond dadt and doma
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