Does Anyone Give Money to the Salvation Army Outside Stores?

[romantico]

For the past month these people have been at my super market and retail stores ringing that damn bell.I use to print out these vouchers and put in the kettle but have not heard about this being done for the past couple years. Anyone know if the Salvation Army has changed their views and policy towards homosexuals? If not, I hope people who do not know their history will read up on their anti gay views before putting one penny in their kettle this holiday.

This article is about 5 years old,so if they have changed on any of their policy PLEASE let me know.

http://www.americablog.com/2004/11/details-of-salvation-armys-rabidly.html


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache%3A966d4V16D_kJ%3Awww.soulforce.org%2Fpdf%2Fkettlevoucher.pdf+salvation+army+gay+voucher&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbRk8noc7H8xWPl5FVPxpMtkZB2jvQ&pli=1

[peacebird]

1. we refuse to give to Salvation Army due to their anti-gay policies

We give to our local food bank and free clinic instead

[seeinfweggos]

2. i'm torn, but the answer is "no"

they help people but are also discriminatory.

[mitchtv]

3. Not I

they;re still the same as the song goes. they built a big, new church across the street from me. The trees I planted now block their unholy vista

[Warpy]

4. I hate their policy toward gays

but I know someone whose family was lifted out of migrant labor by help from Aunt Sally. They do wonderful work out there and are superior to other charities by not allowing their head honcho to live like a sultan while they do it.

I don't put money in the bucket, but I do make small contributions by check in remembrance of the friend I lost a few years ago.

The lion's share goes to other organizations that help without the religious baggage, like Second Harvest and the local food bank, Doctors Without Borders, Heifer, and Grameen.

That's just my two cents. <plink, plink> I'd probably feel very differently if they hit closer to my home and used those contributions for antichoice meddling.

I respect your attitude, though, and understand it completely.

[jwirr]

18. That says it for me to. I know several families that are helped and

they run the Christmas giving for all the churches in town. Big food baskets and good gifts for children. My granddaughter took a name off the giving tree last year and bought a $30 wagon for a little boy. Most of the people here do that for families. The only proselytizing they do is include their magazine "The War Cry" in each basket.

[endless october]

5. i give money when i can.

i also support equal rights for gays, as does the Constitution.

i gave them money this year because they help the starving homeless.

[SoCalNative]

22. Many other organizations

without religious or discriminatory agendas also help the starving homeless.

Sorry but until they change their ways they won't get a dime from me, nor would I ask for or accept help from them if I were starving and they had all of the food in town.

[imdjh]

6. No, and I sometimes tell them why.

[redirish28]

7. I'll be showing this to my wife. We had no clue and they will NEVER get a dime again.

[elocs]

8. If money is not given to the Salvation Army, do they suffer or do the many they serve suffer?

I understand the point, but do we really have the right to demand that people in need pay the price that we might have the courage of our convictions?

[SoCalNative]

23. There are plenty of other organizations

who help the needy without discrimination or proselytizing.

[elocs]

25. Not in my community there are not.

The Salvation Army stands head and shoulders above anything else available here. I simply wouldn't know what to say to the needy families, the women, the children who are housed and fed and given hope in my community. Right, we had better teach them a lesson.

I think for the first time that I can remember I will simply ignore a thread.

[dsc]

26. I find that beyond hard to believe

there are things like second harvest and other nationwide charities.

[ruggerson]

28. the Salvation Army is a virulently homophobic organization

so you come into the GLBT forum and announce that you will continue to fund homophobes.

GFY.

[niyad]

33. but you didn't ignore the thread--you replied to it. by the way, what is wrong with the charities

listed below:

Charities For Lacrosse Wisconsin




Wisconsin Credit Union League Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Wisconsin Archery Alliance Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Western Wisconsin Technical College Foundation Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Western Technical College Veba Health Savings Tr
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Waterbird Society
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Vietnam Veterans Of America Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Veterans Of Foreign Wars Of The United States Dept Of Wisconsin
Lacrosse, WI
View Details United Steelworkers Of America
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
United Brotherhood Of Carpenters & Joiners Of America 1143
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Trout Unlimited
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Travelers Protective Assn Of America Post O La Crosse
Lacrosse, WI
View Details St Francis Community Programs Of Iowa Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
St Anthony-new Brighton Public Schools Health Reimbursement Arr
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Society For The Propagation Of The Faith
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Sigma Theta Tau International Inc
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Sigma Tau Gamma Fraternity
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Service Employees International Union
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Service Corps Of Retired Executives Association
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Schilling Family Foundation Inc Allan Schilling President
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Richfield Public Shools Plan
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Reserve Officers Association Of The United States
Lacrosse, WI
View Details Read Clinic Incorporated
Lacrosse, WI
View Details
Unlimited Friends Pilot Dobermans Inc
Royalton
View Details Milwaukee Neighborhood Renewal Foundation Incorporated
Milwaukee

http://www.charity-charities.org/charities/WI/Lacrosse.html

or these:

Family Resource Center Inc
www.laxfamilyresources.org - [phone] - More

Place of Grace
maps.google.com - [phone] - More

Family & Children's Center
www.fcconline.org - [phone] - More

Ymca-la Crosse Area Family
www.laxymca.org - [phone] - More

Independent Living Resources
www.ilresources.org - [phone] - 1 review

LGBT the Resource Center
www.7riverslgbt.org - [phone] - More

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=la+crosse+wi+charities&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[donco6]

59. I have many other options to give.

There are plenty of secular and religious but not homophobic ministries to give to.

[MNBrewer]

80. Do we have the right to not give money to discriminatory organizations???

Sure we do!

[QC]

9. Not anymore, not since they started using funds to hire lobbyists.

I figure that real charities need my money more.

[icee2]

10. No. Why? Do you know someone who did? nt

[whistler162]

11. Yes and I direct my United Way donations to the local

Salvation Army.

My moms parents met and married in the Brooklyn Salvation Army Church back in the 20's.

[dsc]

12. I haven't for years

it breaks my heart as I know how great the Salvation Army was in my area. My dad was very close friends with the person who ran the SA in my hometown and I even rang bells for them throughout high school. I personally saw the difference the gifts made in people's lives but I just can't abide their homophobia.

[niyad]

13. it breaks my heart, as well, but no--not until they change their homophobic policies.

it used to be the first thing I did for the start of the holiday season--it was my tradition to put money in the first kettle I saw. not anymore, and I have told the local chapter why.

I support the food banks and food drives of other organizations all year round.

[quiller4]

14. Yes. I give them money. They operate the best shelters and

transitional housing in my community.

[Fire1]

17. Ditto. n/t

[ruggerson]

29. I wouldn't give to a racist charity regardless of how good their shelters were

no fucking way.

[Fire1]

32. I've never known them to be bigotted toward any race of people.

[dsc]

34. no just us suck ass gays

we they hate and would let us die.

[Fire1]

35. I didn't know "gay" was a race! n/t

[dsc]

36. I never said it was

but I am glad you are OK with hating gays. I do think you are in the wrong forum though. I wouldn't dare go to the civil rights forum and support a racist organization. The fact you are here supporting an anti gay organization speaks volumes about you, none of it nice.

[ruggerson]

37. You're far more civil

than I can be at this point.

[Fire1]

39. Didn't notice this thread was in the LGBT forum and never

knew the Salvation Army hated gays. When "racist" was mentioned, that means, biased against a race or ethnic group of people, which would not apply to the gay community. Hopefully, you can understand my confusion. I also never knew they hired lobbyist for whatever reason. I've always supported them for the good they do in the poor communities, such as, New Orleans after Katrina. I may not support their beliefs but can support their efforts to help those in need.

[dsc]

40. would you support the KKK if they ran a charity which did great things?

If not, what is the difference?

[Fire1]

42. No, b/c the KKK wouldn't do great things. I understand your

point completely and wish there were more organizations that contributed on their level. I don't think even United Way helps as much as they do but I now have a reason to search. I'll also search for links that divulge their bias.

[roughsatori]

46. DSC, I don't know how you have lasted this long in this new anti-equal-rights for gay DU

This place is a joke. It has seemed to turn pro-war, pro-giving money to filthy-rich bankers, and fuck the GLBTQ people. This entire country and DU seems to have gone so far to the right it shocks me.

I am planning a move to Paris, hopefully next year. I have a place to live there. Unfortunately, even they are moving more to right with that idiot Sarkozy.

You deserve much praise and thanks for keeping up the good fight here. I do miss reading your posts. Thank you.

I am a published poet, and writer of an Emmy winning documentary. In France being a poet is really wonderful...people respect poetry there in a way I have never seen anywhere else. The first time I went to Paris, I only had one poem published. I was staying in a little hotel and would sit at a table writing all morning and afternoon. The owner asked what I was writing. I said "poems." She asked "Are you a poet?" I answered I'm working on becoming one. I've only had one poem published."

She started laughing and clapping: "Then you are a Poet. You shall stay here for free." I love the French people. In the US I now answer, "I guess I've published about 100 poems, some in the best magazines." And almost every American asks: "How much does that pay." That sums up this capitalist-corporatist country. Everything is a commodity: Grotesque!

Keep up the Fight.

[donco6]

58. Great story, thanks.

And good luck to you with your writing. I envy you living in France - even if Sarkozy is an ass.

[roughsatori]

64. Donco6, I always read your posts. After I wrote all that

I thought I was ranting a little. Thank you for taking the time.

[donco6]

69. Ranting? Pfft. The truth is the truth.

And you expressed exactly how I feel, too.

[mitchtv]

84. DSC sure is the politest queer in this club

I enjoyed your rant, keep it up. Please send me an email before you leave us all behind
mitch

[ruggerson]

41. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army#Controversy

Opposition to hiring homosexuals

The Salvation Army in the U.S. has been the topic of some controversial discussions about discrimination against homosexuals in their hiring practices.<22> According to lesbian/gay newsmagazine The Advocate, in 2001, the Bush administration was "willing to do whatever it takes to perpetuate, support, and defend discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender individuals" in exchange for The Salvation Army's lobby support for Faith-Based Initiatives, in what the publication described as a "secret arrangement."<23> The New York Times reported that the Salvation Army believed it had a firm commitment from the White House to issue a regulation that would override local antidiscrimination laws. A disclosure of The Salvation Army's request "outraged some civil rights groups and lawmakers," and resulted in an immediate reversal of a previous promise to honor the request. The Salvation Army maintains that they were "not trying to get permission to discriminate against hiring gays and lesbians for the majority of its roughly 55,000 jobs and merely wanted a federal regulation that made clear that the charity did not have to ordain sexually active gay ministers and did not have to provide medical benefits to the same-sex partners of employees." <24>

The Salvation Army's position is that because it is a church, Section VII of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly guarantees its right to discriminate on the basis of its religious beliefs in its hiring. To reinforce its position, it threatened to close all soup kitchens in New York City when the city government proposed legislation that would require all organizations doing business with it to provide equal benefits to unmarried domestic partners.<25>

[Fire1]

43. Just the link I was looking for. Now, I get it. Thanks. n/t

[romantico]

61. I

I got into this with someone else on another forum.They insist that giving to the SA is Not supporting homophobia and got very defensive when I suggested it did. Here is what they wrote:

"I would have a better sense of that if I hadn't done research to see where the money from the red kettle campaign actually goes. I'm satisfied that 94 cents of every dollar I donate goes to holiday time relief services. If I felt that these services were discriminatory in any manner I wouldn't give. If you can list some of the Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money I would gladly send them donations as well. Who knows - maybe I already do! Thanks"

[gaspee]

77. Got a question for you

Are you REALLY that fucking STUPID or are you just pretending.

[TommyO]

53. But since they're bigoted against gay people that's OK?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. yes because you know one is a good minority the other had it coming

[TommyO]

68. I keep forgetting that I'm supposed to be happy as a second-class citizen.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. you're not a second class citizen. you just want ponies. like equal rights

such a pony chaser :P

[skepticscott]

31. And if the KKK were operating the best shelters

in your community, but they were only open to decent, god-fearin' white folks, would you still help fill their coffers?

[foxfeet]

15. No and I explain why.

There are many other agencies equally deserving of support that do not discriminate against LGBT people. These agencies get my donations.

[ZombieHorde]

16. When I was 19 I got a job ringing a bell for the Salvation Army six days week.

One one shift, I stayed up the entire previous night, and I was dreading having to stand there for a seven hour shift, so dropped a whole bunch of acid to keep myself awake.

A family approached me and the husband said, "This guy is on drugs! I have never heard a bell ringer ring the bell so quickly."

I was thinking, "Holy shit," but I just smiled, laughed at his joke, and thanked them for their donation.

I was also approached by one of my friend's parents, who I had not seen since high school when they caught us taking acid. So that was a little awkward as well.

[prairierose]

19. No and I don't shop in their store either because of their...

anti-gay policy. This has been my policy for quite a few years now, ever since they got to begin discriminating against gay people.

[Toasterlad]

20. Given the Number of Non-Bigoted Charities Struggling For Money....

...it is unconscionable to donate money to the Salvation Army. You can rationalize it all you like, but if you donate to the Salvation Army, you are financing hate.

How anyone can call themselves a decent person when they're knowingly funding discrimination is beyond me.

[quiller4]

45. The Salvation Army does not discriminate in the delivery of services.

In my community there the first shelters to adopt a non-discrimination policy in that regard. Other shelters didn't adopt such a policy until years later.

[Toasterlad]

47. The Salvation Army Lobbies AGAINST Pro-Gay Legislation

They also will not hire gay people.

Like the catholic church, they are a hate group.

[Starry Messenger]

21. Never.

[cayanne]

24. Absolutely Not

nt

[ruggerson]

27. Nope

[skepticscott]

30. Haven't for years

and never will again. They are a despicable organization and don't deserve a dime of anyone's money.

[closeupready]

38. No, I won't ever do it. Plenty of other organizations who do good and help the needy.

n/t

[FreeState]

44. Hell no - no money to bigots n/t

[GodlessBiker]

48. Hell no!

[sui generis]

49. I used to give -

My partner and I basically swapped out our entire household once a year and sent the old one to SA -

And then they stepped in the shit and we don't do that any more.

About the bell ringers - sorry guys; it's especially amusing when my beau and I are walking into a store together to have them ringing bells out front.

Sorry Tinkerbells, we don't believe in you either.

[Ms. Toad]

50. I do.

In honor of my grandfather, who died of leukemia nearly 30 ago and who was a bell ringer for them most of his adult life. They were also the only local provider of free hot meals that would accept the leftover food from a weekend lesbian and gay gathering we held in our community a number of years ago - and YES, they knew exactly where the food was coming from.

They they were an important part of my grandfather's life and they do provide food and services to people who need them. Whenever I pass a kettle during the Christmas season the bell reminds me of my grandfather. I am grateful for the reminder to stop and think about him. I drop whatever loose change I have in my pocket into the kettle. It typically amounts to $5-$10 dollars a year.

[Deep13]

51. nope. We give to secular charities.

Didn't know they were anti-gay, but I suppose I should have guessed.

[Irishonly]

52. Not anymore

I used to until I learned about their anti gay policies. My church houses the Cpuncil of Churches in my area so I give donations to them. We operate several shelters and don't discriminate against anyone. We also don't make people listen to a sermon or bring a church bulletin to receive food from our food bank. There are many charities both local and nationally that have nondiscrimination policies. I also give to a program that feeds the homeless daily. My local patient's association is also running a toy drive and working with another local charity to make ssure as many poor children as possible will have a better Christmas.

[NMMNG]

54. No. Never.

Years ago I might have gladly thrown a handful of coins or a bill in the bucket of someone collecting for charity (and often did). But now I make sure I check out any organization thoroughly before I give them a penny. With very few exceptions I avoid "faith-based" charities since they're likely to be anti-gay and/or push religion on their service recipients--among other things.

[TokenQueer]

55. Thanks for the voucher!

I will be putting those to good use. Usually I just give them the finger as I walk by but I like your voucher.

:thumbsup:

[bigwillq]

56. I never knew this. Thanks for the info.

:hi:

[donco6]

57. Nope. Never. n/t

[TexasObserver]

60. I don't give to any group that discriminates against gays.

I don't care how much good they allegedly do, either, if they are discriminatory.

[SacredCow]

62. No

And while some feel guilty about not giving, I donate to another charity and don't give it a second thought.

[Lyric]

63. A little more info about the Salvation Army:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7126643&mesg_id=7126643

I guess the suffering of the little ones whose parents aren't here legally doesn't "count" for them. On a side note, I had no idea that the Salvation Army only concerned itself with legally-immigrated misery and suffering. What's next? Soup kitchens with Green Card requirements?

:eyes:

[MountainLaurel]

67. Just incredible n/t

[roughsatori]

85. ABSOLUTELY NOT! NT

[David Zephyr]

66. Every year people ask this. It's a good question. You give them Queer Dollars.

Print them up at home and have them to drop in their buckets.

[JI7]

71. NO

[JulieKatz]

72. Scaling Back All Non-GLBT Giving Now

Enough is enough. The so-called Christians have jillions of dollars to use against us, let them start filling their own red kettles and get out of the way of our full and equal civil marriage rights! I could just puke when I think of the huge sums that they waste only to oppress us-- rather than feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless. In fact, I am sending the following to *all* of my charities except a notable few that have been filling my mailbox with solicitations. Feel free to copy it if you are doing the same.

Maybe I should print a few dozen and toss them into the SA kettles?
-------------
Dear <<worthy charity>>

I regret that I cannot donate as much to your worthy cause as I have in the past. Unfortunately, nearly all of my charitable giving is being allocated to groups that devote themselves directly to the fight for marriage equality. Until my lawful same-sex marriage is fully recognized in all fifty states and on the federal level, I will continue to channel most of my financial resources toward the establishment of my full and equal civil rights.

This is a gut wrenching decision for me because of its impact on innocent persons who truly need my help. It is sad and ironic that this fight would not be so costly or protracted were it not for certain so-called Christians who seem to have a hard time understanding the meaning of love.

I felt I should let you know that the fight for marriage equality does indeed affect you. I hope that given the opportunity, you will someday support those of us who have ardently supported you.

Yours truly,
--

[lightningandsnow]

76. You are aware of the epidemic of homelessness among LGBTQ youth, right?

Now, I don't give to the Salvation Army either, but scaling back all your giving except for marriage equality only bolsters the talking point that the push for same-sex marriage is a privilege grab.

Have you spent a lot of time with LGBTQ youth lately? Far too many of the ones I know have been homeless, abused, or in foster care.

No wonder young people feel alienated from the movement.

[Toasterlad]

78. Given That Most People Give Nothing To Nobody, I Don't See What Purpose It Serves To Berate Julie

It's more than tacky to tell her that she's not giving to the "right" charity.

[JulieKatz]

81. ... as a Part-Time Teacher...

I see plenty of GLBT youth, and in fact-- contrary to appearances-- was once young myself. There are way too few charities that directly help our bullied, berated, and too often forgotten GLBT youth. Shouldn't we be donating to them directly? Were I a distressed GLBT youth, SA is hardly the first place I would go for help.

My point is that we GLBT folks donate abundantly to charities that are NOT necessarily GLBT oriented, and by having to shell out big bucks to fight for our rights against the "Christians," we are hurting all types of people. Indeed, I've not cut back a dime of the hundreds I donate to the food bank that feeds anyone-- no questions asked.

Contrary to neocon allegations, gay folks only have so much disposable income. I'd be a total moron not to give heavily to those causes that directly affect me.

Perhaps we should all have our checks imprinted with "Gay Money."

[La Lioness Priyanka]

88. its just as much youthful privilege to ignore how gay marriage affects the lives of us adults.

you are not in a position to know how much money this person can donate. if they have $50 disposable income, why is it so terrible that they donate to something that effects their lives?

[tonekat]

73. They've been ding-a-linging outside a grocery store near me

And I ignore them. Because:

1. I hate their bigoted policies towards the LGBTQ community, and

2. I pick my charities, they don't pick me.

[totodeinhere]

74. Never ever. There are gay friendly charities that deserve my support.

The Salvation Army does not. They are both racist and homophobic.

http://www.gayfriendlybiz.com/charities.html

[dickthegrouch]

75. I even got their donation barrel sent back empty from work

I wouldn't give them anything other than my utter contempt.
And I complain like hell about that incessant bell ringing. It's cruel and unusual punishment AFAIC.

[Rabrrrrrr]

79. Nope - I have no respect for the Salvation Army due to discrimination, lack of care they offer,

forced religious indoctrination of people who get helped, and mostly because they say they are a Christian organization - and thus, followers of Jesus, prince of Peace, and set themselves up as a military.

Totally inappropriate.

All the Salvation Army people I've known have been fucking weird in the head.

[David Zephyr]

82. Never. Give to shelters for homeless gay kids who need it.

.

[vincna]

83. I do - nt

[Terra Alta]

86. Never have, never will.

Mainly because I only donate to non-religious, non-bigoted charities -- but also because their constant, infernal, bell-ringing gets on my last nerve.

[MuseRider]

87. Never.

A few years ago when I found out about their policies I put a dollar in each of their pots with a note paper-clipped on it that essentially said that this was the last dollar they would ever see from me, my family and hopefully from anyone I have a chance to tell of their anti gay policies. Of course it probably fell on deaf ears and closed minds but I tried to hit as many as I could so that someone would at least have to notice. Did no good of course but at least I tried to do something. Now I just shake my head and ask them if they let gay people have their share of the money they raise. Most don't know what I am talking about. I just shrug my shoulders and tell them that they should know about that and to find out and see if they still felt like ringing the bells for them. Most look at me like I am some kind of a nut. I don't care except that the thought of anyone not understanding how wrong that is makes me crazy.

Long answer for NO. HELL NO!