Should Universities that discriminate against gays be accredited?

[TexasObserver]

Heritage Christian University Discriminates against Gays

I was researching about the open discrimination among many religions against gays for a UU (Unitarian Universalist) presentation one of my sons is giving. I stumbled upon a story about a Church of Christ college in Alabama called Heritage Christian University that has had a running battle against gays. The Church of Christ is very conservative, and believes that all other religions and all other versions of Christianity are going to hell, and will tell you so. Historically, it is a very bigoted branch of Christianity, so much so that it angers such other conservative Christians as Baptists and Pentecostals.

It appears that Heritage Christian University is similar to that monstrosity Jerry Falwell created - a place where people who aren't smart enough to get a real degree go to get a degree that is mainly about hammering home church doctrines, biases and prejudices.

I read this report about an incident at Heritage Christian University, and it is pretty damning. I wondered if others at DU have heard of this backwater, Bible controlled "university" and its history of discrimination against gays (and likely others). This particular incident happened late last year, but it is emblematic of the harsh discrimination gays suffer at these so-called universities.

Here is one report on the story I'm talking about:
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(Florence, AL) -- At 10:30 am today, three Equality Riders walked onto the campus of Heritage Christian University (HCU) to deliver letters that described their personal experiences and advocated for the safety and acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender students. The young women were arrested for trespassing before they reached the end of the driveway. Prior to the arrests, an HCU administrator read a letter stating that the university was officially declining their request for dialogue.

Yesterday, Equality Riders met with one student from HCU who described the climate on campus as a "homophobic panic." He explained that students and staff were discouraged from speaking to members of the Equality Ride.

"The way we were treated today is a clear indication that gay and transgender people are not welcome at this institution. The school's choice to arrest us shows just how far they will go to suppress the message we bring," said Jarrett Lucas, Equality Ride Co-director. "HCU trains missionaries to go beyond the walls of their school to spread the inclusive gospel of Christ, but today they chose not to uphold the principles they preach."

This visit to HCU is the sixth Equality Ride stop this year. Now in its third year, the Equality Ride has visited over fifty schools, most of which have been welcoming. At other schools, participants have hosted public forums, participated in panel discussions, and taken part in worship services and Bible studies. The goal is to inspire further conversation and to empower students, faculty, and administrators to make their school welcoming to all students. The organizers of the Equality Ride use a collaborative approach, writing to college administrators months in advance and inviting them to work together to design programming that examines diverse points of view -- including points of view that affirm gay and transgender students.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/1449
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My question is this: Why should any college in America that discriminates on the basis of gender orientation be allowed to issue any accredited degrees?

Shouldn't we, as a society, reject these Bob Jones/Jerry Falwell excuses for a formal education? Shouldn't we require these Neanderthals to either join the modern era or stop pretending they have an education worthy of being accredited?

That fiasco with the Regent University lawyer for Bush - the woman who didn’t know enough law to plead out a traffic ticket - should make clear that the "education" received at such schools is nowhere close to the education a degree should signify.

More references:

http://www.rmnblog.org/2008/10/equality-ride-2.html

http://www.365gay.com/news/more-equality-ride-arrests-at-christian-colleges/

http://www.waff.com/global/story.asp?s=9197788&ClientType=Printable

http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3629&Itemid=53

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. Accrediation does not take religion into account

And I think that is a good thing. Accreditation is done by private bodies.

As for Regent Univ Law School grad, the real issue is if she passed the bar or not.

[TexasObserver]

3. These schools do not provide a real education.

They're about plying their dogma.

You didn't respond to my question, but instead attempted to justify the accrediting of these disasters.

[get the red out]

6. The earth is 6,000 years old

They teach idiotic crap like that as science. All I have to do is turn on the History Channel once a month and I know better than that without paying tuition, but alas, though TV provides a better scientific education than these nut-job institutions, I'm not getting a diploma for it (yet they are).

[TexasObserver]

13. That's exactly the problem. How can they provide a REAL education?

[get the red out]

21. Standards

There definitely should be educational standards and anti-discrimination standards where government grants and loans are concerned. As well as participation in national extra-curricular activities like sports. It just seems like a no-brainer to me. Cumberland University, here in Kentucky, kicked out a kid a few years ago because someone associated with the school saw him say he was gay on a social web site. He had to sue to get to even finish his classes so he could transfer. At first they were just going to kick him out cold. Sick, no one should get financial aid to go to that school.

[TexasObserver]

24. Agreed! Why should they be exempt from standards of modern conduct?

Even Bob Jones University had to back away from its racist policies.

Schools that discriminate against gays should not be able to compete against those which do not.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. If the standard accreditations are earned, its good enough.

Catholic colleges seem to have found a way to do both successfully. I would not argue that Gonzaga or others have their accreditation pulled due to their church affiliation.

If they are self accredited, that is a different story.

[TexasObserver]

14. If they want to be involved in interstate commerce ...

If they want to teach religion, and if they want to be involved in interstate commerce (by playing sports, by recruiting students), then they should be bound to follow the law of the land. They discriminate against homosexuals. They should be treated like any other group that does so.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. You are clearly mixing bible colleges with real universities that have a religeous foundation

There are the bible colleges. They rarely teach anything expect religion. No real university accepts their degrees etc.

Then there are private universities, that are as fully accredited as UCLA or Cal which teach that homosexuality is wrong etc. They include Gonzaga, BYU, and College of the Masters which are Catholic, Mormon, and Baptist respectively.

Not sure how you can ban the former and not ban the latter, or is it you intention to ban BYU as well?

[ZombieHorde]

37. The OP does ask if religious universities should be accredited.

The OP asks if Universities which discriminate against gay people should be accredited.

[boobooday]

2. Absolutely not. n/t

[TexasObserver]

26. Succinct.

And welcome.

[boobooday]

33. I could have elaborated a little, I think

I should have added: Education, by definition, must include respectful consideration of a diversity of identities.

[TexasObserver]

34. I agree. Education should include learning acceptance of diversity.

College is the place that all should have to confront their own biases and prejudices about other cultures, other nationalities, other religions, other ways of life and of thinking.

If the mind cannot be opened in college, then when?

[get the red out]

4. Make it hurt worse than not being accredited

They should not permit discriminatory colleges and universities to participate in NCAA sporting events.

No March Madness for you would go a long way toward equality IMO. And no one could claim their "values" (of hate) were being picked on. Fine, have your hate-mongering education, but no competing in athletics against decent institutions of higher learning, not even as early season tune up games for the big boys of college football and basketball. They would have to form their own hate-monger conference, which wouldn't get the TV time and exposure that NCAA teams, even in the small school conferences, get. And a lot of small school teams will play an early game against a big school for the paycheck, sometimes a football game or a basketball game at an ACC, SEC, Big East etc... school provides a small school with a chunk of change that goes a long way toward supporting their entire athletics program.

Cut them out of sports and it would definitely get their attention.

[MineralMan]

7. That school has no sports programs.

It's a Bible College, and that's all it is.

http://www.hcu.edu/index.asp

[get the red out]

9. Other schools then

I think Fallwell's school has athletics.

[MineralMan]

10. I'd certainly have no problem with such restrictions.

I'd prefer that government grants and other student financial aid were unavailable to students at colleges and universities that discriminate in that or any other way. That would actually do something to change things.

Seems doable to me.

[get the red out]

12. I would love it if they cut their loans!

That would be the absolute best. People shouldn't get government grants and loans to be educated in hate and oppression. You should at least be getting an education that provides some good to society rather than learning how to do the greatest possible harm to your fellow citizens.

But the NCAA seems to be capable of some measure of Independence from time to time. It regularly makes and changes rules pertaining to recruitment, academic standards and such then enforces them on its member schools. I wonder if they could ever be persuaded to look at intolerance the same they look at schools whose athletes show no academic progress, or who commit recruiting violations?

[TexasObserver]

19. Thanks. We agree on that.

[TexasObserver]

18. What's the topic? This school is an example of discrimination.

Are you more offended by my mentioning them than you are by their conduct?

[MineralMan]

20. Don't be silly. If you read the thread, you'd see that what I want

is to make it illegal for schools like this one to receive any government money, either directly or through grants, etc., to students.

Since nothing can be done about private accreditation organizations like the one that accredits this cesspool of a school, I suggested something that could be done.

Find another whipping boy.

[TexasObserver]

22. You're being absurd.

You're not a whipping boy.

It's not always about you and your fragile ego.

[MineralMan]

23. I see you ignored my points again.

It's OK.

[TexasObserver]

25. That's because you don't make sound points.

[MineralMan]

27. OK, let's look again:

Number one, accreditation is done by organizations not connected to the government. In the case of the crummy little Bible College you named, it is accredited by an organization that only accredits Bible colleges. How would that be stopped? Who has the authority to do that.

On the other hand, the government could withhold all support to such a school that discriminates against GLBT students. No government-backed student loans. No grants. No GI Bill money. And so on. Now...that is something that actually could be done, unlike accreditation, which is granted by private organization.

Now, tell me what is not sound about those statements, which are the same ones I made before.

You want to do something about such schools? Then I gave you something that could actually be done. There is no way to keep them from being accredited by an organization that is made up of people who accredit only Bible Colleges.

[TexasObserver]

28. Let's don't.

I am not nearly as interested in what you have to say as you are.

I've read your comments. I've agreed with some of them. I've disagreed with some of them. You need more ego stroking than I'm willing to provide you, so you'll have to seek it elsewhere.

[TexasObserver]

17. I agree with you. There should be penalties and exclusions.

Any college that discriminates should not be eligible for any kind of governmental aid or assistance, including for its students. Let them get the money from their bigoted church members.

[MineralMan]

5. That school is only accredited by one organization,

which only accredits Bible colleges. Hence, you may expect that it has accredited a number of schools with anti-GLBT policies.

The more serious issue, in my opinion, is that it is recognized by the US Government and students there are eligible for all government programs in aid of their education. That is where they it be attacked. You can't attack them based their accreditation, since the organization that accredits them is bogus, at best.

Further, that school only offers religious majors, not general majors. It's a non-player, except to produce more fundies. Here's its Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Christian_University

[TexasObserver]

15. Bible schools and church schools are useful to produce loyal adherents.

Not so useful to produce educated graduates.

If all they do is teach members of their religion to prepare for a ministry in that religion, that's fine.

[SacredCow]

8. When a school's first priority is religion, education is severely handicapped...

I spent 3 years (junior high school) at a fundamentalist Christian school, and I can assure you that I would have been just as educated if I had slept for that time. Each day was framed by religion- Everyone's homeroom was a religion class, and the last period of the day was supposed to end with 30 minutes of prayer. We had "chapel" every Wednesday, which was an hour where the headmaster of the school could try out his sermon for the following Sunday (it was a church, too, of course). Sometimes they had guest preachers, which usually were of the fire and brimstone variety- and often ended with laying on of hands and/or speaking in tongues (Ever seen a kindergartener's face when a grown man is rolling on the floor in front of them, babbling like a lunatic? It's pretty funny).

But I digress... Being the cynical kid I was, I quickly realized that Jesus was the #1 priority. And it didn't take me long to wonder if I could answer questions on my algebra test with "Jesus" and get at least partial credit (2X + 8 = 18... "Hmmmmm..... would that be JESUS?!?!?!? 'Cause I loves me some Jesus!!! Praise God!!!"). I'm exaggerating, of course, but not very much- that's the fucked up part!

And hypotheses proven- it worked like gangbusters.

All it took to be an honor roll student at this school was to be a SuperFan of Jesus, or the ability to ACT like you were a SuperFan of Jesus. By day, I was a model Christian student- A fine and upstanding young man (who got exempt from mid-terms and finals because of his exemplary grades). Mom and Dad were happy at first, but I think became suspicious after the first open house night, where my teachers were waxing poetic over how wonderful and saintly I was. Of course, they saw the "real" me- Learning and using the colorful language of my dad... Trying to sneak a beer or 3 from the ice chest at crawfish boils... Becoming involved in a pornography scam with a group of neighborhood (Public School Heathen) friends.

And I became disgusted with it all. The fakeness, the hypocrisy, the double standards- It really began to wear on my soul. So I applied to the local High-Achiever / Performing Arts Public High School, and was promptly accepted- thus beginning my period of total atheism.

Also beginning the payment of the check I wrote when I stopped studying in 6th grade. High school was a struggle for me, academically. I had become so used to goofing off and slacking that I had to re-discipline myself to keep above water. My graduation ranking and final GPA was wholly unimpressive. Thankfully, a good ACT score helped me out with university admission.

So, long story short- I agree that any degree obtained from such an institution should be immediately suspect. Not because I hate Christians, but because I've experienced it firsthand and from what I've gathered- my experiences are not uncommon.

[TexasObserver]

16. Thanks for that very thoughtful and insightful post.

I never attended a religious school or college, but know many who have. Either they see such schools for the horrific ways such schools have, or they become worshipful advocates.

[dickthegrouch]

29. They should be certified

When a Brit (like me) uses 'certified' he could mean one of two things:
Accredited, or
Certified as insane and therefore able to be sequestered against their will

I would prefer the second for all abusive institutions that can't find their humanity. We all belong on this planet and I have no time for those who think they are better than me just because they fit some majority mold.

We will never advance as a species unless we can learn to work as a single team for the greater good of all. I'm not holding my breath.

[Heidi]

30. No, and recommended.

:kick:

[TexasObserver]

32. Thanks! Much appreciated.

I thought about posting this in GD, but the hostility exhibited by some in GD to GLBT issues is appalling. I find I'm spending more time reading this forum, Late Breaking News, and Editorials, and less time at GD.

[pundaint]

35. Yes, if they otherwise qualify

Triangulation sucks. Accreditation does not include civil rights considerations. This kind of thinking reduces the dui level to .08 to avoid the carnage done by those typically over 1.5. You could probably remove a gallstone with a hammer, but it's not the right tool.

Stop public funding, stop tax exemptions - I'm with you, but not this way.

[TexasObserver]

36. "Stop public funding, stop tax exemptions"

On that, we agree.

[ZombieHorde]

38. No. Bigotry relies on poor thinking skills, which is the opposite type of thinking

skills universities are supposed to be teaching.

[TexasObserver]

39. I agree. Bigotry relies not upon logic, but upon bias and prejudice.

Does a person who believes sexual orientation is an abomination to humanity evidence the thinking which should be associated with a liberal arts degree?

Under the approach some have, the KKK could run a college and issue degrees.

Simply put, without the social decency component, without the acceptance of gays as another normal part of the human condition, a degree cannot represent a truly enlightened college experience.