Point for discussion inspired by Anderson Cooper.

[TheWraith]

The discussion in another thread about whether Michael Musto had "outed" Anderson Cooper by making a comic reference to him while talking about Prejean on Larry King.

Now, it's pretty common knowledge that Cooper is gay or at least Kinsey 5+. If a public personality is gay/bi and has never made a particular secret of it, but also hasn't publicly declared it, do you think that makes them "closeted" or just private?

To my mind, if someone's not trying to hide their orientation, then it's not truthful to say they're "closeted" or capable of being "outed" even if they haven't advertised it. Most public personalities don't need to walk around announcing that they're straight, and as far as I'm concerned it's nobody's business if so and so doesn't feel like talking about their sex life.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. I think Anderson Cooper is just a private person.

Maybe he'll write a book one day like his mother did and we'll get to read about his sexual exploits. Until then, I think it's best to leave him alone and let him live his life as he sees fit.

[Fearless]

2. There are arguments that go both ways on the subect.

In an ideal situation he should come out publicly. It could help a lot of people to see greater numbers of "professional gays". They would prove good role models to our youth. However, I know that rarely does such an ideal situation occur. He should do what he feels is best for him and his interests.

[imdjh]

6. Is the question whether Cooper should come out, or if the public must keep his "secret"?

Anderson Cooper could go the rest of his life without mentioning his sexual orientation, but should the rest of the industry or gaydom, or the "insiders" be under some kind of expectation not to talk candidly about him when discussing him?

Scenario- if Keith Olbermann is chatting on Ellen about some event and she asks him who was there, should he say, "Oh Brad and Jen, Woody and Christy, Frank and Beth, and Anderson and his friend."?

[TheWraith]

7. My original thought was, is not mentioning it the same as keeping it secret?

I don't think so.

The question you raise is a little different: is the subject a taboo that is somebody is known to be gay but hasn't "come out," should others refrain from saying anything? Again, I don't think so--to a point. It's indecorous to talk about the personal life of somebody who doesn't care to talk about their personal life. It would be rude for someone to go on TV and say "Anderson Cooper is dating such and such man," regardless of whether Cooper is known to be gay or not. That's simply privacy. But if he's not being secretive about it, then I don't think it's out of line for others not to treat it as a state secret or to pretend that it's something other than what it is.

[ruggerson]

17. But you're acting as if People magazine does not exist

nor the rest of the international media.

The fact is that even the New York Times covers the private lives of celebrities without their consent. This is the world we live in.

[Berry Cool]

3. For the record, Musto didn't say that on Larry King, he said that on Countdown.

But...that being said...I don't think it's a noble thing to drag Anderson Cooper out of the closet kicking and screaming.

If everyone "knows" he's gay, but he wants to make no public comment on his orientation, that's his choice...just as it's the choice of people everyone "knows" are straight if they don't want to make a public comment about their personal lives.

I would feel differently if Cooper were: a) publicly claiming to be straight, deeply in love with a woman, etc. and b) were making active efforts to undermine gay people. Such a hypocrite deserves all the outing he can get, a la Larry Craig.

But Cooper, to my mind, is under no obligation as a public figure to be a poster boy for being gay. If he chooses to, great. If he doesn't, I don't care. I don't feel I have a right to make the decisions about his life.

[imdjh]

5. If Anderson Cooper were shacking up with Ricky Martin, would it be news?

[closeupready]

15. Ricky Martin announced today that he's gay.

So probably not. ;)

[imdjh]

4. I think that most public personalities do "walk around announcing that they're straight".

And the magazines which follow celebrities from rock stars to "the weather hunk" (Jim Cantore) also announce that they're straight, sometimes even if they aren't.

"It's no ones business." has been around a long long time. In most cases it would amount to an excuse. In the past, some people have even employed it as an expression of tolerance- B U T there is a point at which being a "private person" crosses into being secretive, or at least deliberately distant. Supposedly we make some special accommodation for non-movie/music/sports celebrities because what would be considered a fan in the more glittering entertainment zones is person who is "a little too interested" in things like serious news or business. The bottom line is that the curiosity and the fans come with the airtime and the paycheck, even if you are a Vanderbilt.

Every year, magazines and some TV shows do "Most eligible bachelor" lists. Sorry, that is broadcasting your sexuality, or at least making a claim about it.

I not only know that Bill Gates is married, I know his wife's name. Why? Why do I know that? Is it part of buying or operating a computer to know the name of a woman who has nothing whatsoever to do with the computer industry her husband captains? Why did I know who that AOL guy's wife was, back when AOL mattered? Why do I know way too much about Steve Job's love life? I've actually seen pictures of Tommy Lee's penis about to enter Pamela Anderson. If I know who Pamela Anderson is fucking, why shouldn't I know who Anderson Cooper is fucking?

[Berry Cool]

10. Some personalities do, others don't.

I think it should depend on how the individual behaves. If he's not inviting people into his personal life or claiming to have girlfriends, or actively encouraging his placement on "most eligible bachelor" lists and pining aloud to reporters about how all he wants is a nice girl to settle down with, I don't see it as anyone's business just because other celebrities are.

I don't think there is a point at which being a "private person" "crosses into being secretive." I think even celebrities have the right to a private life. If they choose to forfeit that, fine. But if they don't, they shouldn't be forced to.

What it comes down to is, Pamela Anderson apparently WANTS you to know who she's fucking. But you have no constitutionally given First Amendment right to know who Anderson Cooper is fucking.

Sorry.

[imdjh]

11. We're not talking about constitutional rights here. We're talking about normalization.

At some point the gay community can no longer straddle the Normal Line, playing on the previously desirable expression of tolerance, ie respect for privacy, and the new desirable expression of tolerance which is openness and acceptance. Normalization means it's no big deal if Anderson Cooper is dating Ricky Martin. Normalization also means that Anderson Cooper dating Ricky Martin is news regardless of how "private" Anderson Cooper would prefer to be.

By the same token, and I suspect that this is a HUGE part of this discussion at street level, Normalization means it's OK for coworkers to talk about you the same way they talk about anyone else. At one time, my coworkers speculating on my sexuality or talking about me dating Ricky Martin would have been inappropriate, rude, or even mean. Now, there is absolutely no difference between my coworkers talking about my private life than there is anyone else's.

[Meldread]

13. You're overlooking an important aspect: Professionalism.

Anderson Cooper is not some movie star or "famous" person in the usual sense. He's a newscaster in the traditional sense. He does straight reporting (no pun intended), in which he's supposed to be non-biased and simply reporting the facts. His personal life and who he is should be irrelevant to what he is reporting, saying or doing. Now, what he does in his private life is completely different, but when he's behind the camera he's a professional.

I don't know if Brian Williams is married or not. I don't know if he has kids or not. I assume the answer to both of those questions are yes, but I don't know for certain. I don't know if David Gregory is married or not, and the only reason I know he has kids is because he mentioned it once on the Daily Show I think... I think one is a daughter, but I don't know her name. I've never heard mention if he has a wife, I assume he does, but I can also picture him as a single father.

Anderson Cooper is in the same category as them. Their personal lives don't matter, because they aren't relevant. He isn't Rachael Maddow, who is offering us something completely different. She's offering us her view point on things. She's selling herself to us, and thus who she is personally does have some measure of influence on how you view her... in the same way knowing who Ellen or Oprah are personally has some measure on how you view them. They're selling themselves as products, wanting us to trust them, view them sort of like TV friends who we welcome into our homes and feel comfortable and intimate with... this is important for them.

This is not important to Anderson Cooper, and would actually undermine what he is attempting to accomplish. He's doing a straightforward newscast. Not opinion journalism and thus his personal life, whatever it may be, is irrelevant to his job.

[bluhoodie]

14. Bravo, well put!

I agree with you 100%. You've articulated very nicely an important aspect: context, or perspective. Not all situations are alike. There are differences that matter. And your assessment shows insight.

  :applause:

[mitchtv]

8. He is a public personality

open season. if he don;t like it he can sue, like Tom Cruise or Liberace

[dsc]

9. I think it all depends upon context

Say Musto sees Cooper at a public event that he is reporting on and Cooper is with his partner. I think that is acceptable given that Cooper isn't making up a beard or whatever. On the otherhand if Musto goes through Cooper's trash and finds a love letter that is a different story.

[closeupready]

12. I feel it is somewhat false to claim that "Pat's sex life, gay OR straight, is nobody's business."

The reason is that, of course, a traditional heterosexual marriage or a debutante's coming-out party is ALL about sexuality, and you never hear someone say about heterosexual wedding announcements, "oh, why are they publishing this information? it's nobody's business".

I understand why gay men are traditionally discreet about their sexuality, but at the same time, people like Anderson Cooper are public figures, and so personally, I kind of resent the way people have of talking about him like he's a member of nobility, as if talking about his gay life is actionable for defamation of character or something. It's as though the implication is that being gay is something to be ashamed of.

He's gay, nothing is wrong with that, and I suppose if he wanted people not to think of him that way, he'd do some kind of Rock Hudson thing, and find a woman who was agreeable to be his beard. Since that is not the case, talk about his being gay is fine with me.

[ruggerson]

16. Identifying someone as gay is NOT "talking about their sex life"

It's merely acknowledging an orientation which usually defines the entire structure of their adult family life.

Your "sex life" line reads like something out of a religious rightwing talking points handbook.

Start from the premise that the media should have no double standard whatsoever when covering straight or gay celebrities.

We live in a tabloid world. If they cover movie star John Doe and his series of girlfriends without his permission, then why shouldn't they cover movie star John Dude and his series of boyfriends?

To not do so is coming from a starting point that is inherently homophobic.

[joeybee12]

18. Agreed...if I never had sex again in my life, I'd still be gay...n/t