In God We Trusted-The truth about ex-gay ministries

[Christian73]

Please check out this segment from January's episode of IN THE LIFE. It explores the truth behind ex-gay ministries and introduces viewers to those that have survived. If you'd like to learn more or find out how to get involved, please visit www.inthelifetv.org.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlfGCjO33fE

[donco6]

1. I spent a few years in one of those.

I never knew anyone who changed from gay to straight. I saw plenty of sexual frustration, though. Does that count?

[Christian73]

6. I'm sorry to hear that...

While I've never been in one, I've done a lot of research and they sound dreadful.

[donco6]

8. Ours was . . . interesting.

Lots and lots of drama. Half the guys would be doing the other half at any given time, and then feeling doubly guilty because of it. We had charismatics who would go off on their tongues stuff at the drop of a hat. One guy who was married who talked incessantly about being in love with his BIL. Two women who had a really volatile relationship that would erupt in the meetings occasionally.

As I said, it was interesting.

I think we did have one guy get married, but we all decided he was pretty much asexual, so he didn't count.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

20. I'm Really Sorry You Had to Go Through That...

It is so sad that ignorance persuades gay people that not only should they change, but that they CAN change. I have yet to hear of anyone being cured by the ex-gay ministries.In fact, from what I see, they HARM sincere gay people when they find out that they cannot change. Too many of our own have ended up either living cold, lonely lives devoid of the affection that all humans need, or they commit suicide. Not only are people in these programs harmed, but if they have married and had children, their children and spouses suffer when the marriage collapses, which they often do. They are as much victims as the people directly harmed by these "ministries". Even if they manage to hold the marriage together, the GLBT spouse often ends up living a lie, getting what he or she needs on the side. It is tragic all round. Even when people "smarten up" and leave, there is both tragedy and triumph. Tragedy that they wasted months or years of their lives on a fraud, and triumph that they were able to see through the disinformation and get out.

Donco6, I am so happy that you are free and away from that fraud.:hug:

[marimour]

7. one question.

Did you really believe that it was going to help or want it to help or was it something you were forced into by parents? I always wondered about those who are gay who truly feel it is a sin and want to get rid of their homosexuality and what their thought process is like while in one of these places.

[donco6]

9. I certainly wasn't forced into it.

I didn't know if it would help, either. I think by that time, my philosophy was, "I'm always going to have gay feelings, but maybe I can just learn to control them" (sometimes called the Monk's Vow). I was probably a little better at it than most, but toward the end I really fell wayyyy off the wagon! And I got to the point where I figured, You know, I could die a prideful, self-centered, son-of-a-bitch, or I could die gay. Which is worse, really?

[marimour]

thanks for sharing.

I'm sorry that in this society you even felt the need to put yourself through that. Glad you decided to just be you.

[MikeE]

2. My favorite take on the whole ex-gay thing...

is the movie "But I'm A cheerleader". I know this is a serious subject, but that movie satirizes the people who run these things.

[LostinVA]

4. Exactly

[donco6]

12. That's pretty good.

The only problem with it, is it tends to ascribe really evil motives to the people behind it. I didn't really know any truly cruel people. We didn't have any torture sessions or anything silly like that. Just prayer and Bible study and memorizing lots of verses - not unlike any other Bible study group. But there was a lot of angst expressed about having gay feelings or thoughts or - God forbid - ACTIONS. The movie just tends to take everything to its ultimate end, which is what satire does best.

Not that there weren't truly bizarre elements. We had an older woman who would come occasionally. She wasn't gay, but her son was. Do you remember Hyacinth from Keeping up Appearances? Think her. We were all far too wimpy to tell her we didn't want her there. (I mean, who wants to talk about their latest cocksucking dream with Hyacinth sitting there?)

[SacredCow]

14. Well, I might make an exception....

if I got an invitation to a candlelight supper.

:hide:

[donco6]

15. ~snicker~

Good one.

[SacredCow]

16. I am thoroughly Hyacinth-Saturated right now....

My roommate has the complete DVD collection of them, and we watched them all over the course of a couple of days...

[donco6]

18. Damn, that's a lotta Hyacinth.

I'm not sure I can take that much.

Now Rose and Daisy, on the other hand - they're a lot of fun.

[MikeE]

21. How funny

and in the series, Hyacinth's son is gay.

[NorthCarolina]

3. It is important that the Fundies maintain a perception of "choice"

with respect to being gay; that it is "Nurture" and NOT "Nature". Anything less than that and their entire argument falls apart. "Choice" is the holy grail of their movement that shields them from charges of bigotry and intolerance. This is the sole reason that ex-gay ministries even exist, to lend credence to the concept of "choice".

[LostinVA]

5. EXACTLY -- "God don't make junk"

[marimour]

10. yep.

When one of my friends mentioned this recently (she's a very religious 25 yr old virgin) it amazed me. I asked her "do you really think that millions of gay people are in on one big organized scam to make people think that they were born like this?" (of course she had no answer). Then I asked her if it was a choice, then who would choose it? Who would voluntarily choose to be outcasts from their family and society when they cold easily be attracted to the opposite sex and be "normal" and accepted? (no answer again and then she became oddly silent on it).

Side note: I personally think that a lot of people are born on both sides of the spectrum (absolutely straight and absolutely gay) and then there are people in the middle (like me) who based on different life experiences and the openness of their community and society in general, would feel free to explore both sides of their sexuality.

[SacredCow]

13. Agreed....

I don't think the "why are you gay" question has one answer. Generally speaking, I'd say as close as we can get is that it's a combination of nature and nurture, but a very different and personal journey for each individual.

[NorthCarolina]

17. Who hasn't experienced a young school child taunted on the playground

for being gay? Whether you experienced it first hand as a target of the ridicule, or as a witness to such taunting going on, I would venture to guess a great many of you can remember such events?

"Gay" develops early on in life because it is genetically encoded into the psyche. It is different from the norm, but it is a fact of nature and not nurture. Does a third or fourth grader "choose" to be labeled "queer", "dyke", "fag" or "homo", or choose to be physically abused for being perceived as "queer" at all of eight or nine years old? I doubt it, and it's quite obvious the children that taunt him/her are somehow aware and do so because they are seen to be "different".

The fundies cannot ever acknowledge a genetic link to "gay" because as a previous poster said "god don't make junk", and so ex-gay ministries act as a propaganda tool that cleanses the conscience of the intolerant who are only doing "gods work" in repairing broken souls.

Remember, a genetic link also means genetic testing would be available. Can you imagine the Christian woman who finds her unborn is carrying the gay genetic markers?? My lord, they'd want to shoot that demon seed out faster than a cork from a Champagne bottle, pro-life issues be damned.

[SacredCow]

19. When pressed to the "god don't make junk" argument....

I've had a few fundie encounters where I got the response of "homosexuality isn't a sin. homosexuality ACTS are a sin. You can be a homosexual, but you can't act upon it." Just bizarre logic they go through, huh?

As for the rest... I doubt that EVERY kid who is taunted with homophobic slurs is, or turns gay. Much of that starts before kids really have a clear idea of what sexuality even is. I do see your point, and I've little doubt that my "gayness" is something deep within my being that is not alterable. But I do believe that there is a nurture factor, as well.

[MikeE]

22. How funny that today on Oprah

2 ministers said that being gay is a gift from God.

[NorthCarolina]

23. They must have been gay ministers....didn't see Oprah though

so have no idea. There clearly are some tolerant religions, but they are not the ones that drive policy...at least not yet.

[Jamastiene]

24. I hope we can change that.

There are straight ministers who are affirming to gay people. We have a couple on here. I hope we can get their message of love and acceptance out there.

[SacredCow]

11. What slays me about these things....

is that you go to their website, presumably as a confused and scared person searching for answers and they scare you into believing that who you think you are is evil and wrong, and how it's literally the mother of all sins- THE worst thing you can POSSIBLY be. Then, they tell you that they can "cure" you, so maybe all isn't lost. THEN, they tell you how much it costs to be cured.

:wtf:

If it's such a huge thing, and bringing about the collapse of society as they claim... Dontcha think that they'd be wanting to cure it for free? I mean, if someone had a cure for serial killers or child molesters, I think it'd be for the greater good to give it away. I know I would.