Linking an old post of mine - how issues connect

[noamnety]

The more I've learned about warfare, the more I see it connected to constructed notions of masculinity, homophobia, women's rights, racism and oppression, and supremacy of all different sorts. There are some people here saying "why can't you wait until the economy is fixed - and THEN fight for your right to get married?" I understand why they have that view, I'm not faulting them for wanting to prioritize issues - we all are raised to do that.

I am not prioritizing, though - I believe these are all interconnected, I've said that several times, but maybe not clearly enough, and not recently enough. I don't think we can "solve" the economy by shipping more troops to Afghanistan and keeping 50,000 in Iraq. That doesn't solve our economic problems at home, it continues putting them on the backs of future generations. And it doesn't stop a cycle of trying to float our economy through the military industrial complex, which I believe is an underlying reason Obama has been voting for the war and wants to escalate the one in Afghanistan. That's my personal belief about his motives - that he understands NOT extending the war will cause more layoffs at home and he will get blamed for it - and that he will get blamed for not being manly (military) enough. His stand on Iraq and Afghanistan does nothing to help poverty abroad or human rights abroad, either. It's no secret that women are raped, sold into prostitution, become victims of poverty at high rates, and become victims of domestic violence at higher rates during wartime. It's not secret that warfare is poisoning the countries we invade with all sorts of chemicals, or that those chemicals have been tested on our own people as well.

The way the war has been sold to the public is as a construct of masculinity - of homophobic masculinity, to be specific. They (? Iraq? Afghanistan?) attacked us, we get revenge and fight back. Anyone who doesn't do that isn't "a man." We sell the idea of joining the military through commercials to make you A Man. The republicans challenge the democrats to continue the war by challenging their masculinity - their ability to "protect" us if they aren't pro-war enough, and the ability to protect (through war) other people who "need" our protection. Unless we deconstruct that for what it is, and work to undo those messages in our culture, we aren't going to undo all the other things that are destroying us. Gay rights is about the right to marry, about the right to get health insurance, about acknowledging that creating second class citizens is fundamentally wrong and immoral. But it's also about changing a culture to recognize there are definitions of being a man that don't revolve around having a relationship with others who are subordinate to you. That relationship of dominant/subordinate as a power structure is the foundation for Warren-style marriages, and also for destructive capitalist practices, for environmental destruction, for warfare, for torture ... it underlies almost every crisis that is facing us. Anyone believing we can solve those problems first, and THEN address the cultural issues that allow them to flourish, is, I believe, not seeing the big picture.

This is an old thread of mine on the same topic, in case I wasn't long winded enough in this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x226858#230698

[hlthe2b]

1. Thought provoking.... K&R

;)

[Sandrine for you]

2. Wow!! The first Warren post that I like!

Really great text.

Except for the "Warren-style marriages". I think that marriages are really some patriarchal institution, Warren or not.

"But it's also about changing a culture to recognize there are definitions of being a man that don't revolve around having a relationship with others who are subordinate to you."

Really true, and the the subordinated relation is really at the core of our civilization, to go from the domination from the nature to the domination of the nature by using the force of the nature: the exact path of the Enlightenment. Francis Bacon: "...nature had to be hounded and made a slave to the new mechanized devices; science had to torture natures secrets out of her".

So now our civilization reproduces the dominion of the very nature.

[noamnety]

4. I go back and forth on that belief

that marriage is inherently patriarchal as an institution. Generally, yes, I agree with you ... and I originally wrote that, then changed it to Warren-style marriages because it is possible for people in their individual marriages to have equal partnerships, despite the role marriage plays in greater society.

I have a hard time when people like Warren are talking about the definition of marriage being between one man and one woman, because given his views on women and their roles in marriage, what I keep hearing is: "Marriage is between one dominant person and one subordinate person." And if that is their unspoken definition of marriage, I can see why it's so critical for them to disallow two people of equal standing to get married. That indeed would threaten the institution of "marriage" in their eyes.

I'm coming around from "it doesn't threaten your marriage" to "if that's your definition (one dominant and one subordinate partner where the man controls other people just based on his being a man) it needs to be threatened for a number of reasons." Within their own marriages, whatever floats their boat, but to define marriage that way for our nation is a dangerous thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. i agree with you. Homophobia and misogyny are deeply tied in with partiarchy

and hypermasculinity. That sort of attitude, and that definition of masculinity leads people to bomb other people or break them.

it does make me want to howl as well.

[truedelphi]

5. Civil Rights are part of a whole slew of Social Justice Issues

As long as there is a war anywhere, the Civil Rights of that area are non existent. And Civil Rights are intensely threatened as a society becomes more of an Empire that is waging the war, death and destruction of other societies, than a community fostering the well being of its citizens.

As long as an economy is in disrepair, the Civil Rights for certain households and certain areas are endangered.

As long as one race, one color or one creed are considered preferable above others, than Civil Rights are still requiring further (and strident) action.

As long as age-ism prevents some from hold jobs that they are expereinced in, trained for and deserve to hold, Civil Rights are still requiring further (and strident) action.

As long as somebody with Power is saying that certain groups can or cannot get married, Civil Rights are threatened.

As long as only the elite are free of worry about health insurance, Civil Rights need a great deal of improvement. (How can you claim to be free, knowing that one illness can destroy your retirement, or cause you to lose your health FOR GOOD, etc.)

As long as elections are allowed to occur using machinery without safeguards against hacking, vote stealing etc, then Civil Rights are endangered.

Please add more if you think of some others.

[Chovexani]

6. This is very true.

And all of it is manifestations of what Starhawk called the "power over" principle.

If you haven't read Dreaming the Dark or Truth or Dare, I highly recommend them. She writes from a Pagan perspective and I don't always agree with her theologically despite being Pagan myself, but her writings about power structures are really thought provoking and she touches on a lot of the intersections of various isms.

[noamnety]

7. I can't help laughing a little when someone brings her up.

She took my daughter out for coffee a couple years ago. I haven't read her book or met her myself, and I feel quite bad that the only thing I know about her is that she's a shitty driver. :D

(I should put her on my reading list so I can get past that.)

I probably would find her writing about power structures to be interesting. A good friend whom I admire a lot here has also suggested I read her.

[Chovexani]

8. lol, that's funny

I met her years ago at a women's circle and she was really cool. Total Earth Mama type.