Changing public schools for the better

[stopschoolpaddling]

In your opinion, what is the most important change (or first change that would facilitate other changes)that needs to be made in public schools? In an ideal situation, how would the changes be implemented?

[DrDan]

1. end this reign of testing and allow teachers get back to their business of teaching

school districts and administrators need to allow teachers the freedom to teach. They spent years in college learning how - and now they should be trusted to do so. Student stress, administrator priorities and test schedules all impact their effectiveness in the classroom. Time to put the emphasis on individual progress - and allow the teachers to evaluate that in the most appropriate manner - not some cookie-cutter approach. (How can a single test determine whether to hold back a student or to not allow graduation - insane. This kind of pressure is not even encountered in undergraduate colleges. But this is the case today in Florida.)

But, alas, we have yet another administration that is not willing to trust the teachers to do their jobs.

This is a start in my opinion.

Second - although not asked for - is to get parents to accept some responsibility. Parents need to be supportive of teachers rather than critics. But good luck doing that - they all know better.


(This is from a non-teacher btw - so probably way off base - just my opinion)

[elleng]

2. "We will need to overhaul

the curriculum itself. Our current educational approach — and the testing that is driving it — is completely at odds with what scientists understand about how children develop during the elementary school years and has led to a curriculum that is strangling children and teachers alike.

In order to design a curriculum that teaches what truly matters, educators should remember a basic precept of modern developmental science: developmental precursors don’t always resemble the skill to which they are leading. For example, saying the alphabet does not particularly help children learn to read. But having extended and complex conversations during toddlerhood does. Simply put, what children need to do in elementary school is not to cram for high school or college, but to develop ways of thinking and behaving that will lead to valuable knowledge and skills later on."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/opinion/02engel.html?...

[Zoeisright]

3. Start spending MONEY on them.

Many public schools are criminally underfunded, with old textbooks, buildings, and supplies, and underpaid teachers. If we spend 1/100000th the money on schools that we spent on wars in this country, our schools would be in wonderful shape.

And if I hear that pathetic little 'you can't solve a problem by throwing money at it' WHINE one more time, I'm going to punch that person in the mouth. Of course you can solve many problems by throwing money at it - the rich do it all the time.

[FBaggins]

8. Start spending it BETTER perhaps.

"You can't solve a problem (just) by throwing money at it" is actually a truism, though it's also true that you can't solve many problems without spending something.

But money (overall) really isn't the problem. Your "1/100000th" claim is surely hyperbole, but implies that you may not really know how much we do spend on education in this country. The sums are staggering. Easily high enough to claim that it isn't that we don't spend enough, it's that we spend it very poorly.

The salary expense for classroom teachers isn't nearly as high a proportion of that total spending as a rational person would expect to spend.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Pay differentials based on subject matter for high school teachers

The current industrial wage model used for teachers needs to be dropped in favor of market based salaries. We need to attract better qualified teachers into the profession.

[tonysam]

5. The craziest idea ever.

Talk about undermining school morale and making the workplace worse.

I can tell who teaches public school and who doesn't.

The most important reform is to hold administrators accountable for their actions. They are not now.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. I have taught in the public schools, as did my wife.

The current pay scheme is more suitable to miners than educators. All teachers are not equal and all subjects are not equal. We need to revise the compensation and management processes, which includes administrators.

A MA in English is not the equivalent of a MS in Physics. Administrators should be on pay for performance as well as teachers. Its done everywhere else in the professional world, education should not be shackled to its current industrial paradigms.

[FBaggins]

10. Yes and no

You're correct that an MA in English isn't the same thing as an MS is Physics (having majored in Physics I suppose I'm partial).

OTOH, you don't need a Masters degree in Physics in order to teach HS Physics. You need a BS in Physics and the ability to teach (which doesn't come with the MS). An MA in English Lit (and the ability to teach), however, would be more valuable than a BA in English.

At least as importantly, High school isn't all there is in education. Neither one of the advanced degrees (English/vs Physics) makes much difference when teaching 4th grade... and we need excellent teachers there every bit as much as we need excellent Physics teachers (else those excellent Physics teachers won't have anyone in class who is prepared to take the subject in the first place).

There should be a wider gradation of salaries between "so-so" teachers and the exceptional ones, and degrees can (and often do) play a part in that... but we don't have a reliable way of consistently identifying the truly exceptional ones.

[YvonneCa]

6. I'd suggest you go to ED.GOV and...

read the posts from educators:

Read this first... http://www.ed.gov/blog/2009/05/secretary-arne-duncan-takes-listening-tour-online-invites-comments-on-raising-standards/


Then read here... http://www.ed.gov/blog/topic/join-the-conversation/page/2/

Posts by Yvonne are me, but other teachers also answered your question VERY WELL.

And welcome to DU. :)

[YvonneCa]

7. My answer...

Yvonne
Posted May 16, 2009 at 12:29 am | Permalink
Secretary Duncan,

Thank you for your listening tour. As a recently retired teacher, I really hope you are successful in rebuilding our public schools. I have given a lot of thought, during my career, about what it would take to better educate our kids and make schools work better. Here in California we have had very high standards for some time…and while they are important, I want to be sure you know it will take much more than just ‘fine-tuning’ standards to make education right.

So, what follows are my thoughts about what you should REALLY consider, if you truly plan to make our public schools the envy of the world (which would be my goal).

Number One: Publicly apologize to teachers for scapegoating them in recent years. You need them on your side (and they aren’t right now). In 2001, under the Bush Administration’s Education Secretary, Rod Paige, teachers (unions, specifically) were called terrorist organizations. For the last eight years, NCLB has done nothing but blame public school problems on ineffective teachers (probably because they prefer vouchers). There has been almost NO recognition for eight years of the job teachers do. The general public has NO IDEA what the job entails and our leaders have worked to make that WORSE for eight years. A better start would be a HUGE and LOUD apology to the teachers of this nation who have dedicated their lives to teaching kids. Most with little support, either financial or in respect.

Number Two: And then ask teachers what they think, and make THAT public. What a difference that would bring! Much of the public and many politicians (who rightfully want to improve public schools) have no real idea of what is wrong with them. So they try ‘canned solutions’…like merit pay…most of which are the wrong thing to do. JMHO. Merit pay is divisive…just like NCLB was. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a tool for improvement if done in the right way, but it HAS to be done fairly. Example: NCLB has good things in it, but it became bogged down because it used AYP to pit schools and districts and teachers against each other..instead of helping us to work together toward a goal we all share: Improving education for kids. I think ANY workable solution will require input and support from teachers…not just unions…teachers. In all the talk of fixing public education and schools…which I wholeheartedly support…the idea of involving teachers in this process is never brought up by anyone in a position of authority. I’m glad to hear they may ‘rename’ NCLB and start to include a ‘progress’ measure for accountability…but talk about putting lipstick on the proverbial pig.

Number Three: My reform ideas, with the underlying prerequisite that teachers MUST be involved in designing a program in order for it to be successful…

1. For teachers, stop demeaning them and start treating them professionally. Create career paths for them. Very few exist now, because teaching used to be a ‘traditional woman’s job.’

2. Integrate curriculum. Learning makes more sense to kids when connections to other knowledge can be made. We have lost that in the era of NCLB. And we can still keep standards to meet…just not in isolation.

3. Create multiple pathways/goals for students’ graduation…all of them rigorous. Have it kick in at about age 10 or so…be flexible until age 12 (to be sure the child has made a good personal choice)…and then be the student’s committed choice after that. Some kids may choose science/math, others may go into writing/journalism, others to a third choice. It’s important to design these pathways well…for areas students will need to work in in the future. When they finish, they are job-ready or college ready…but THEY have some buy-in to their future goal (not just their teacher or their parents).

4. Ungraded schools at the elementary level. As some have said here, mastery of concepts should be required to move on. It’s WAY more complicated than that…but clearly passing kids from grade to grade does not work.

5. Find ways to involve parents in their child’s education…ie. Student Led Conferences, Curriculum Fair, technology, etc. The list is endless.

6. Testing for accountability shoud be streamlined. Under NCLB, the testing has become all-consuming. It leaves little time to teach.

If the only test given was for NCLB…once a year…I’d cheer. But, in my county, tests are given three times a year…in reading, math and writing…to be sure state standards are met…in addition to NCLB. We start the school year…we test. We get to Christmas…we test. We return in the spring…we do test prep and test NCLB. After NCLB, at the end of the year…we test again. That’s what I mean. And anyone who has taught knows you don’t just test one day…you have all the hassle because kids are absent/makeups, etc. And then there’s the focus on scoring.

Teacher energy needs to be on the kids and teaching.

7. Use data fairly. Measure growth.

Example: At the start of a new school year, student A reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student A reads at 6th grade level. That’s two years of growth, and it is easily tested. Let’s say student A is in a 4th grade classroom. The teacher does well, both on growth…and currently on NCLB. That’s because NCLB wanted that student to read at 5th grade level by the end of the year…target met.

Now, take student B. At the start of the school year, student B reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student B reads at 6th grade level. Again, that’s two years of growth and it’s easily tested. But student B is in a 6th grade classroom. The teacher has done well on growth…two years. But the teacher is ‘iffy’ on NCLB, because the target is 7th grade level (ready for middle school).

And then, take student C. At the start of the school year, student C reads at 4th grade level. By year’s end, student C reads at 5th grade level. That’s one year growth, and it’s easily tested. But student C is also in a 6th grade classroom. The teacher has done okay on growth (one year for one year of instruction) by the student can’t meet the NCLB target of 7th grade. That teacher is PUNISHED by NCLB.

That is the part that is unfair. And many excellent, dedicated teachers in underperforming schools are being targetted because of it.

Another example:

Let’s say there are four second grade teachers. Every one of them produces an average of 1 to 3 years growth in their class of students. But they are very different as teachers…one complains about *certain* students placed in their class every year, another teaches ‘GATE’ students (and they get averaged into the total class improvement), another regularly takes kids the others don’t want because of a belief that you work with students as they come to you, etc.

Thanks to the current focus on ‘data’ and ‘results’ (which does have a place) at the end of the year, these four teachers get a number (data) showing average growth of their class. IMO, data is important, but it is ONE measure of each teacher. Remember, ALL these teachers added value. ALL these teachers are good teachers. But administrators…under great pressure as ‘at-will’ employees…see this data. Some (really bad ones) make the data public by handing it out at staff meetings. This pits one teacher against another when we should all be working toward the same goal.

Data is a tool…but only ONE tool. Anyone who has taken a class in statistics will tell you you can twist data to make a case for anything. That’s what has changed under NCLB…successful teachers who help their students grow are NOT rewarded, they are punished because sometimes even 3-4 years growth is still below standard.

Thanks for listening! And good luck to you, Secretary Duncan…I KNOW our country can do better.

[LWolf]

11. Put educators in charge of education policy. nt