Question about college / grad school

[W_HAMILTON]

If you go to a lesser-known college (tier 3 or 4), but do very well and get straight A's, do you have a shot at getting into the more prestigious graduate schools?

I'm basically in my junior year, and my college "career" has been a rocky one. I had high aspirations coming out of high school (finished 2nd in my class), wanted to go to a big school, went to orientation and everything, then found out I bit off more than I could chew. I was still very dependent, and being that far away from my family in a huge city was just not right for me. I looked into attending state colleges, but I was always disappointed I never got to attend where I wanted to go, so I never really pursued them much, either. I began working, and while I have a decent job, it's certainly nothing I would want to do for the rest of my life. So, I'm looking to go back to college.

The only problem is that to do so, I'd be attending a local college that's not very highly-regarded. I am worried that even if I get my degree, it won't be worth much since it's not from a top-name college. I'm also worried that even if I do very well (I have a 4.0 GPA right now), that I still won't be considered for a prestigious graduate school since I attended a lesser-known school.

I'm torn whether or not I should skip the smaller school and wrack up debt attending a bigger-name school so I can get into a good graduate school, or whether I should stick to my local college, continue to try to maintain a 4.0 GPA, and hope for the best when it comes to graduate school.

Can someone from a Tier 4 school do very well and end up making it to grad school at a Tier 1 university, thereby "validating" their undergraduate degree?

I don't know, I'm just so torn as to what to do, so I figured I'd ask you all and see what your experiences are.

[HeraldSquare212]

1. Yes. I dropped out of high school, went to a community college for two years, then to a state

college for two years. I did very well on my LSATs and was accepted into an Ivy League law school. You're better off doing that, by the way, because your cost for the college will be very low and you won't end up drowning in debt when you finally get out of grad school.

[elleng]

3. GREAT to hear this, herald!

Give my regards to BWY!

[W_HAMILTON]

6. Wow, that is a great story

:)

What state school did you go to? Was it a well-known school?

And how has your career been since you graduated? Have you noticed the benefits of going to a big-name graduate school?

[HeraldSquare212]

12. The school was SUNY Purchase, in Purchase, NY.

There's definitely a benefit to a big-name grad school - it works well on the resume forever. I think there's a real perceived difference in quality among grad schools whereas there isn't so much among colleges - it's as though colleges are the new high school, and grads schools the new colleges.

[W_HAMILTON]

13. Yeah, that's what I've read, too.

So, I guess that's what I should do. Stick it out with my current school, get the best grades possible, then hope I can get into a big-name graduate school, and let that be my resume's bright spot :)

How old were you when you graduated from graduate school?

[HeraldSquare212]

15. 28

[elleng]

2. Glad to hear you're back in school,

and sad you have to deal with this matter.

Not sure, of course, but among other things I think grad schools will consider 'essays' written by applicants, wherein you can explain something about yourself or whatever you write about.

What's your 'major,' or professional goal?

[W_HAMILTON]

5. Well, I'm majoring in Accounting

I'm not one of those types that wants to be the CEO of a huge corporation by the time I'm 50. I would be content with finding a reasonably paying job somewhere around my family, maybe in the range of 40k-50k per year.

But as I said, I'm torn. College is hard enough, without adding all these other extenuating circumstances into it. It's tough to stay focused and motivated attending a college, knowing that your degree may not be worth anything out in the real world.

My school is AACSB accredited, which is an important thing for a major such as mine. I would be more inclined to finish out my degree at the Tier 4 school, assuming it wouldn't limit my possible future at a good grad school. But as I said, I just have these doubts.

As I said, I actually finished 2nd in my high school class, and got 1350/1600 on the SAT. Any college I applied to, I was accepted to. But having never been far away from my family, and never having even a summer job really, the thousands of dollars it would cost to attend one of the far away schools seemed too daunting at the time.

Academically, nothing seems to be holding me back. It's more of these sorts of mental problems that discourage me. Years ago, I dropped out from this same school because I was just so disappointed in myself. Years later, I am back attending, because I realize the importance of a college degree. At the same time, it's always in the back of my mind that this might just not be good enough.

[elleng]

8. Chin up,

and maybe you should stop 'thinking' so much!

I could be wrong about this, but I don't know much about graduate degrees in 'accounting.' What does one get out of them? Or would it be 'Business' that you'd go for?

And where are you? Grad schools in the area?

Depending on circumstances at the time, you might find what you're interested in right out of college! I have heard, and suspect it may be true, that things should be looking up in the next 1-2 years.

[W_HAMILTON]

11. Well, I still have to finish my undergraduate degree

I think that's why I'm asking these questions now, where I could still make the decision to transfer to a bigger-name school, if that would be the best route.

As for what I plan to go for in graduate school, I'm not quite sure yet. I am majoring in Accounting now, for my undergraduate degree. I don't know if it would be wise to stick with that route for grad school as well, or something else, such as an MBA or something.

Like I said, so many decisions :(

[AdHocSolver]

17. Considering your stated career goals, a grad degree from a "fancy" university...

may just make you "over-qualified". Unless you are aiming for a job as college professor, mathematician, engineer, physicist, or executive, a graduate degree could wind up being counterproductive.

A hiring person may wonder how realistic you are to spend all that time and money on a graduate degree just for the prestige level when it won't necessarily make you any more qualified or get you any more pay as an accountant.

If you feel that your instructors are providing you with the skills you will need to do the job well, and you are getting good grades, then all you need to do is be able to explain that successfully to your future boss. Job experience will be a better asset than getting a graduate degree.

One thing you might want to check into at your current school is how "networked" your professors are to the work world. Another thing to check into is whether your school has work-study programs or internships in your field. That kind of experience will serve you better than a graduate degree.

[fed_up_mother]

24. Forgo the expensive undergrad school and score well on the CPA exam

Pass all four parts on the first round with good scores. My sister did just that, and she went to a good state university, but nothing special. She had several job offers from big name firms.

[Genevieve]

4. Name recognition is just one of many requrements that grad schools admissions

look at. But, It's one of the biggest factors determining your eligibility.
Students who graduate from lesser known colleges can get into great grad schools, but those who attended top tier colleges get into the best grad schools much more easily.
it also depends on the graduate program you will be pursuing.

[W_HAMILTON]

7. So, what would you recommend?

Should I stay at the Tier 4 school, and keep getting good grades, and hope that it is enough for admissions to overlook the fact that my possible 4.0 GPA came from a lesser-known school?

Or should I transfer to a Tier 2 school, and finish my undergraduate degree there?

Like I said, it's just so stressful. All these sorts of added decisions is one of the main reasons I dropped out of college right after I graduated high school anyway. I just don't know what is best.

[Dan]

9. Stay

Challenge your self, get good grades, and do well on your GRE..

[Genevieve]

10. Look at Post #8.. nt

[SheilaT]

14. When I was doing the college

thing with my oldest son, I was trying to figure out how to decide if any given school was a good one. Keep in mind the U.S. News & World Report ratings are basically crap. My son was interested in majoring in physics, and his high school physics teacher said the question to ask is what grad schools to kids from the colleges under consideration go to.

So that's what you need to be thinking about. What grad schools to students from your current school typically go to? If it's a tier 4 school because it's not very good academically, you may need to consider transferring. But if it's tier 4 because of one of the ratings systems, and students there go on to solid grad schools, then not to worry. The graduate programs out there know which of the supposedly less well known schools actually educate their students. You might be surprised at how well students from your school actually do. But if it is a genuinely second rate school and no one from it ever gets into a decent grad school, then, yeah, transferring elsewhere might make sense.

Do keep in mind that unless you've really researched a lot of schools, ones that you think are no-name because people who live more than a hundred miles from that school don't seem to have heard of it, may actually be very well regarded in the academic world.

[Berry Cool]

16. If you have a 4.0 GPA, and score well on the GRE or GMAT, no worries.

Trust me on that one.

[davefromqueens]

18. Depends

There is no iron clad rule

If you transferred now, the question is which degree you get and which credits are transferrable.

A 4.0 student with great scores AND extracurricular activities should be able to write his or her ticket.

[Nikia]

21. I agree

If you had a 3.5 or so, the school you went to would make a big difference, but if you have a 4.0 with test scores to validate your apptitude, you should be fine.

[Sabriel]

19. Go to the best college for your program that you can afford

Ask professors in your area what the big name schools are for that discipline and shoot for one of those.

After graduation, it's not what you know, it's who your network contacts are. And you make those at the Big Name schools who have the Big Name profs.

In grad studies, it's who your advisor is that matters, mostly:

In a forest a fox bumps into a little rabbit, and says, "Hi, junior, what
are you up to?"

"I'm writing a dissertation on how rabbits eat foxes," said the rabbit.

"Come now, friend rabbit, you know that's impossible!"

"Well, follow me and I'll show you."

They both go into the rabbit's dwelling and after a while the rabbit emerges
with a satisfied expression on his face.

Along comes a wolf. "Hello, what are we doing these days?"

"I'm writing the second chapter of my thesis, on how rabbits devour wolves."

"Are you crazy? Where is your academic honesty?"

"Come with me and I'll show you." ......

As before, the rabbit comes out with a satisfied look on his face
and this time he has a diploma in his paw.

The camera pans back and into the rabbit's cave and, as everybody should
have guessed by now, we see an enormous mean-looking lion sitting next
to the bloody and furry remains of the wolf and the fox.

The moral of this story is:

It's not the contents of your thesis that are important --
it's your advisor who counts.

[W_HAMILTON]

20. Heh.

Nice story ;)

[GSPowner]

22. The best you can do is make a decision with the best intelligence...here is some

food for thought.

I recruit for accounting and finance professionals and I hear and see success stories and failures from poorly planned careers every day. The answer to your first question is yes…do well and you have a good chance at getting into an Ivy League school/Top Tier School.

Here are the ones I would recommend….basically any of the top 20…however I do have my personal favorites. Mainly as I have had great success placing people with credentials out of these schools. My favorites have ** in front of the name.

1Harvard University (MA)

2**Stanford University (CA)

3 **University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)

4Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)

5**Northwestern University (Kellogg) (IL)

5**University of Chicago

7Dartmouth College (Tuck) (NH)

8University of California–Berkeley (Haas)

9**Columbia University (NY)

10New York University (Stern)

11University of Michigan–Ann Arbor (Ross)

12Duke University (Fuqua) (NC)

12University of Virginia (Darden)

14Cornell University (Johnson) (NY)

14Yale University (CT)

16University of California–Los Angeles (Anderson)

17 **Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) (PA)

18University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)

18**University of Texas–Austin (McCombs)

20Emory University (Goizueta) (GA)



First consider you career goals...if you want to be the CFO of a Fortune 500 / Private Equity of Hedge Fund partner etc. go Ivy League or if you just want a solid career in accounting solid mid level manager at Fortune 500 or a small company no need to spend all of that money go second or even third tier is fine.

Many schools base entrance on a combination of GPA and the GMAT. The better your grades the better your chances. The undergrad is important…but if you have an MBA from Harvard...the Ivy league credential covers that pretty well…as a recruiter and a former controller I would be focused on the CPA and MBA.


The first rule of schools and credentials is that perception is "REALity" and can make your career much easier or more difficult. Credentials will matter a great deal to the premier Fortune 500 companies, Hedge Funds and Private Equity firms. There are some less than desirable Fortune 500s HF, PE etc and you can ask your local recruiters for their opinion...and they are not always keen on schools with one exception mentioned below. One hedge fund I work with will typically not consider any school that is not in the top 20 and on the last job I worked on for them an MBA out of Carnegie Mellon the #14 school was not good enough when they had 5 candidates from the top 4 schools.

The second thing you want to consider is the CPA. Honestly a degree in accounting is in my opinion not worth the effort if you do not plan on being licensed. As you know you now need 150 hours for the CPA, essentially a MS so you might as well take two additional semesters and sit for the exam. I see so many good accountants that do not have a CPA and they are severely limited. Companies will quickly dismiss the non-CPA if there is a CPA to choose.

Third, go Big 4 Audit and Assurance. This in my opinion is the the KEY to better options for a solid career in Accounting regardless of school and opening doors that otherwise would not be open. Remember perceptions is reality. I know Big 4 alum that are marginal accountants but they get the first look over others. Its not right but it is what it is. Sure it can be really tough and lots of hours but in the long run it is worth it. Even if you hate it stick it out at least 2 years preferably 3 to 5. If you leave after one year the first thought of a hiring manager is that you washed out and it is an obstacle as a recruiter I have to help you over come with a polished reason. The other groups are very good too but big 4 Auditors have a broader scope of possibilities.

If there are death nails for an accountant or finance person or heck any business professional in general these are them. Any fast-food chain type colleges and any online school will permanently mar your resume. One exception here is there are 4 top rated schools that have online MBAs…these are the ONLY exceptions at this time. Avoid all others period. There are a few other types but I am not sure how I would classify them. Basically if it is not a state school or a well known private school in the top two or three tiers I would avoid them. You might as well go to a good state school that Big 4 recruits from for probably the same or less money. I have even average companies tell me they did not want to see candidates out of the Fast-Food and online schools. I don’t want to name the schools in a public forum out of courtesy to the school and also to avoid “hate mail”.

If you like send me a private message and I will pass on the schools to avoid that I am aware of.

http://www.usnews.com/sections/education/index.html Check your school's ranking which it sounds like you have done.


So in short here is what you need to do to ensure the highest probability of a successful accounting career.
1. BA/MS from a solid state or private school...check the ranking
2. Go Big 4 audit period...this is the ONE thing I know gives you the greatest chances
3. Get a CPA license
4. Do not change jobs every other year...stay with one company for a minimum of 3 to 5 years. People who change every other year are typically chasing money and eventually it will work against you.
5. Choose your place of employment wisely. Fortune 500 companies typically look better on your resume than private but choose based upon professional goals and development. Money is important but a small company that is willing to pay you incredible money may be doing it because they can not find anyone and it maybe a deadend job with no career path and poor retirement options...a high salary in this case is simply an insurance policy that will make it 10 times harder to leave.
6. Unless you desire to serve the community in a NPO avoid them. The accounting is different and not valued as highly in the corporate world.

Again if you have more specific questions send me a private message.

[Salviati]

23. My advice:

If you do stay at your current university, make an effort to get to know profs in your field, try and do some work with them in any capacity as an undergrad. It will give you something good to put on your applications and you'll likely get really great reccomendatoins from them. That will help a lot.

Also, when applying be proactive about calling (within reason) the schools that you want to get into if they put you on their waitlist. One of my friends from grad school got admitted because he kept calling about his status, and when they decided to accept a few more people, they already knew who he was and that he was very interested in going there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. YES INDEED!

I did my undergraduate work at a church-related school that few people outside of Minnesota have ever heard of, did an intensive language program at one Ivy League school, and completed a Ph.D. at another Ivy League school.

Later, when I was teaching at a small liberal arts college in the Pacific Northwest, we had graduates end up in graduate programs at Berkeley, Michigan, and Washington University-St. Louis.

If you have a solid academic program under your belt, above-average recommendations from your professors, and are applying in a field that isn't too crowded, you can make it.

ON EDIT: I didn't realize your were in accounting when I wrote my reply. You've gotten a much more appropriate answer from someone who is in the field.

One thing I would advise as an undergraduate is to take some liberal arts courses as electives. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you have to fill your record entirely with business-related courses, but you aren't going to be working 24 hours a day, and the more outside interests you can develop both during your school years and working life, the happier you'll be, not to mention retirement.