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sportndandy Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:31 AM
Original message
Pot will NEVER be legal
Pot - great medicine, low cost - bad for pharmaceutical companies, doctors etc.

Hemp - great fuel, bad for energy companies

Hemp - great fibre - bad for dupont

Illegal Pot - feeds the police forces, the judicial system, the "rehab" industry, the prison industry.


You think any of these POWERFUL interest groups will ever let us have our buds? You are crazy if you do. The only way to make legalization palatable is to make it profitable. The problem is, prohibition is very profitable.

At this moment in history, it is far more profitable for Pot to be illegal than it ever would be if it were legal.

Sorry for my rant, but I am damn tired of going through life as a second class citizen because I am a "functional addict." It seems a shame that even here at DU I have to keep a low profile because my behavior is illegal. And we don't want the creeping freepers to think we are all drug addicted wimps.

Fuck that. I don't care what those drunken fuckers think about anything. I don't care to convince them anymore. I just want to kick their fucking asses. Thats the only convincing they understand anyway. I may not get my pot, but I will feel good.

Sincerely
The militant wing of the democratic party





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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. The illegality has never bothered me much
If you know that a law is unjust I think it's morally acceptable to ignore it.
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sportndandy Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is it acceptable for DU to accept me for ignoring it?
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Careful
Remember the AOW shotgun fiasco?
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Me neither, the law is a joke
I believe in natural law and natural rights, that the laws of man, when
out of sync with these fundamental rights, should be disregarded.
Further, that one can use all means outside violence, to protect your
natural rights.

The law and the legislators and the police are just wrong, criminally
wrong, and i've as much respect for them as the nazi SS and other
similar movements of political repression. History will show the
errors of the law, and in the meantime, it should just be carefully
ignored.
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centristo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. wrong
"Illegal Pot - feeds the police forces, the judicial system, the "rehab" industry, the prison industry. "

Actually, illegal pot drains the police forces of manpower and resources, clogs the judicial and prison systems and uses 'rehab' facilities that should go to people with serious disabilities or dependancies.

Your other points though, I do agree with.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It Feed Them in the Sense that It Justified Their Tremendous Size
Police budgets would be much smaller without drug laws. And in the case of the prison system, marijuana prohibotion actually makes lots of money for private corporations.
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. It also feeds them in the sense that
illegal drugs become the offense required to confiscate property such as buildings, autos, boats, bank accounts...
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centristo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. this doesn't make any sense
How do our prison systems and marijuana prohibition make money for private corporations?
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. A Very Large of Prisons are Privatized
Providers of correctional services include Correctional Corporation of American, Wackenhut, etc. They build and manage prisons, provide medical care and maintenance, provide prisoner phone service, etc.

More prisoners in the system equal higher profits.

A huge percentage of people in prison are there for simple marijuana possession.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-11-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. you should read 'reefer madness' by eric schlosser
same guy who wrote 'fast food nation'

it has 3 sections on the first one is on marijuana...it's a lot of great information and it's a quick and easy read
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Prisons and money
How do our prison systems and marijuana prohibition make money for private corporations?

Rather than try to explain it you'd probably be better served to visit the following web page, it gives a pretty detailed examination of how our prison systems and the drug war has turned into a for profit industry. There's a number of text links to follow but the main attraction should be a link to a roughly hour long program that was first aired on American Radioworks as a documentary. Look for the "full audio" link in the resources near the bottom left side of the page. Links to related topics at the bottom as well.

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/corrections/index.html
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. bullshit ...
The cops use it as a racket to take money, cars, and property from people while scaring the politicians into sinking more and more resources into them. There is a whole national apparatus that exists solely because of the stupid drug laws. Those useless bastards lobby every day so they can keep their gigs.

The "rehab" business isn't just about psychiatric facilities. It's about those private companies that offer to tune up the kiddos for a fee, it's about those FUCKING drug testing companies who buffaloed the insurance industry into making companies drug test employees so that the labs can prosper. It is obscene.

One thing that the OP left out was the influence of organized crime. They have a vested interest in keeping the drug laws and will spend whatever they can to make sure they keep their profits.

This is one of most corrupt systems in our history.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. You said it.
Not much of a smoker myself, but I always have been an active advocate. The issue is so much deeper than many people give it credit for, and highlights a lot of what is wrong with this country.

What's unique about marijuana activism is the sheer number of issues that it touches on:

1) The utter failure of the "free-market" model when it comes to medical research, which underfunds scientific research into plant medicines. If it can't be patented, it gets next to no research. Did you know they just found a spice used in Indian food may reverse alzheimers? That's right, a cure for alzheimers may have been sitting in your spice rack for years without anyone knowing. How many other cures are in there, or growing in the woods? We won't know if the drug companies are the primary research fund source.

2) Corruption of our justice system. Asset forfeiture is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to petty law enforcement officials using the law as a way to rob and steal for their own gain. Drug kingpin laws are often used, but seldom are they used on kingpins. Outsourced prison work programs show how prisons can be turned into corporate labor camps, which provides incentive for jailing ordinary citizens on bunk charges. Sentencing disparities put institutionalized racism square in the limelight.

3) Mismanagement of our justice system. Mandatory minimums and 3-strikes prison time for non-violent offenders highlights how the "moral majority" is bankrupting the country. Violent felons furloughed to make room for dope smokers shows us just how much they "really care" about morals.

4) Government propaganda. The prohibition of marijuana is a prime example, a case study, of the extent to which the government will bully/control scientists and the media to spread lies and disinformation. The use of the "drug war" as a pretense for foreign policy is one particularly disturbing facet.

5) Worker's rights. Drug testing is invasive, racist, and to top it all off, doesn't even help the company. It is a prime example of how corporate culture tramples the worker, is used as a method of social control, and frequently makes bad decisions to boot.

6) Suppression of small agriculature by big business....

...well this is turning into an essay. The list goes on and on. Folks, if you hear your college-aged kid is getting into marijuana legalization, don't discourage them. You may think it to be a hopeless cause, but they will learn a LOT about the rest of the problems our nation faces in the process. My activism in college taught me more than all my "electives" put together. This issue is the ultimate eye-opener to our larger problems as a nation.





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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 06:08 PM
Original message
What spice are you talking about? n/t
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. What spice are you talking about? n/t
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Sporadicus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Don't Forget the Paper Industry
Hemp makes great paper, but the paper industry would fight any efforts to disrupt their process, which is tooled-up for making paper from trees. An upstart paper-from-hemp industry would threaten their bottom line, so their lobbyists fight against it tooth & nail.
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Village Idiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. OUTGROW Big Brother, Brother!!!!
But then again, I am Canadian and have a medical exemption...;)
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Dan Baum, in his well researched study of modern Americas drug policy,
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 11:51 AM by John Q. Citizen
Smoke and Mirrors documents how our government kept pot illegal as a way to politically control the segments of society who would oppose military adventurism, controls on free speech, and who would push for civil rights.

I believe it was Haldermann, a top Nixon adviser who told Baum, and I'm paraphrasing here, "You couldn't outlaw long hair, you couldn't outlaw being black, you couldn't outlaw being young and you couldn't outlaw rock and roll music, but you could outlaw the common denominator, which was pot. We knew it {cannabis} wasn't particularly harmful or dangerous, but it was very convenient as a means of control.

I live in Montana and we have medical cannabis as of an initiative passed last Nov. elections, and we have industrial hemp cultivation as per a law passed a couple of legislatures ago.

Enjoying a cannabis smoke for it's own sake is still considered to be a crime, though.
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Dez Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Right on!
Cannabis is medicine, and it's a good thing :-)
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SoCalifer Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-11-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. War On Drugs - War On Ourselves
Edited on Mon Apr-11-05 09:10 PM by SoCalifer


Great Thread - thanks Sportndandy

I agree 100% with your analysis, but I think there's one very possible avenue to realize the Re-Legalization of marijuana that has been a long tradition in bringing about the revoking of unjust laws in this country, as well as other changes. I'll explain below after I get my rant out of the way.. :)

I hope my rant is read. I think it is important..



----


(My Rant about the Controlled Substances ACT of 1970):

Being a member of the medical marijuana compassionate club here in California and having a medical marijuana prescription, I think our government's out-right lies and distortions concerning the use of marijuana is just absolutely a crime against humanity (and I mean that 100%). Especially after you review the mountain of scientific research on how marijuana effects the human body and all the medical benefits that it possesses -- and I strongly feel that denying anyone access to this is a heinous crime. But also, not to leave out, all the superior and environmentally cleaner industrial products that marijuana can provide.

Not that any of this should make any difference because certainly my nervous system and the rest of my body belongs to me and not some government who erroneously thinks that its all mighty.

I also think that wasting the enormous billions of dollars to wage war on citizens who are not committing any crime and wrecking their lives for having done nothing to anyone, is also a gross violation against humanity, and when I say NOT committing any crime, I mean the taking of a drug --(ANY DRUG)-- is NOT a crime, and is in fact, a constitutionally protected activity. That is of course if we didn't live in a post constitutional era.

I am sure that I am preaching to the choir here - but please allow me to elaborate because there may be some young neo-cons lurking who simply may be a victim of our current dilapidated, government controlled schools and they might possibly learn something.

I think more people need to be taught our Constitution more in-depth than they have been; because unfortunately when listening to the average person talk about it, I find that they are unfortunately so lacking in its meaning. Most people I run into (when I hear them discussing the Constitution) seem to be only of the opinion that it is just a document listing Constitutionally protected rights --and-- they only seem to know off the top of their heads a few of the rights listed in the Bill Of Rights -- usually just the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th amendments.

They totally don't realize the profound implications of the other rights listed in the Bill Of Rights, or other amendments, such as the 14th amendment, adopted after the Bill Of Rights. And are usually completely ignorant to the one right listed in the Bill Of Rights that I feel is perhaps the most important one of them all -- and that would be the 9th amendment.

Both the 14th and 9th amendments are germane to the discussion of this thread. Let me quickly point to the section in the 14th amendment to illustrate how it is being violated by the war on drugs.


    (14th Amendment):Section 1. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".



By noting the underlining sections; you can see by making certain intoxicants illegal and others not, the government is denying certain persons the equal protection of the laws that it is not denying to others. Certainly marijuana users don't have equal protection of the law respective to alcohol users. Now lets move on to my favorite amendment -- the 9th amendment.


    (9th Amendment): "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."



As-far-as one's personal liberties is concerned, you can see in the 9th amendment it implicitly defines the statutory scheme of the whole Constitution itself. What it is basically saying is: The government has no jurisdiction to deny, restrict, or regulate personal activity, and it is not to be mistaken that just because a personal right is not enumerated (listed) in the Constitution -- that it isn't a right still retained by the people themselves. Certainly you have the right to eat, sleep, travel about, etc. without it being listed in the Constitution.

What you also get from reading the 9th amendment is that personal rights themselves are NOT granted by the government through the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't 'grant' anyone any rights. It, besides defining government offices, merely lists a few rights (to protect them), so that all other rights will be protected from arbitrary government.

These ideas of the Constitution 'restricting' government and securing (not granting) certain rights so that all others may be secured -- is supported by both the Declaration Of Independence and the Preamble to the Bill Of Rights:


    (Declaration Of Independence): "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain 'UNALIENABLE' Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to 'SECURE' (not grant) these rights, Governments are instituted among Men......"


    (Preamble to the Bill Of Rights): "The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution.




So as you can see it is important to note that the Preamble to the Bill Of Rights states that the first ten amendments are "declaratory and restrictive clauses". Simply put, and supporting the idea of 'restricting' government; this statement means that the Bill Of Rights supersede all other parts of the Constitution and restricts the Constitution --and-- the Constitution itself in-turn restricts the powers of government. So in matters pertaining to personal unalienable rights, the restrictions enumerated in the Bill Of Rights are permanent & unchangeable. This is why a man by the name Frank I. Cobb made one of my favorite quotes in the LaFollette's Magazine, January, 1920.


    "The Bill of Rights is a born rebel. It reeks with sedition. In every clause it shakes its fist in the face of constituted authority. It is the one guarantee of human freedom to the American people." --Frank I. Cobb



Thus -- the government only has jurisdiction where it is specifically given jurisdiction; and no statute or legislative act may override the Constitution. That is why when our government first sought prohibition against an intoxicant (Alcohol), they went about it the correct and legal way, they sought a Constitutional amendment giving them the legal jurisdiction because an ACT doesn't supersede the Constitution. However, arguably as I pointed-out above, this Constitutional amendment against a personal 'unalienable' right was in the strict sense of the Constitution -- Unconstitutional as well.

Now another very important document to point-out that supports these restrictions, is what many people refer to as the most important landmark Supreme Court case in our history -- The case of Marbury Vs. Madison, 5 US 137 (1803). In this case the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that any legislative 'act' repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.

Here is a excerpt from Marbury v. Madison and below it a few others from other important cases, and believe you me, there are many others I could list:


    (Marbury Vs. Madison): "That the people have an original right to establish, for future government, such principles as, in their opinion, shall most conduce to their own happiness, is the basis, on which the whole American fabric has been erected. The exercise of this original right is a very great exertion, nor can it, nor ought it to be frequently repeated. The principles, therefore, so established, are deemed fundamental. And as the authority, from which they proceed, is supreme, and can seldom act, they are designed to be permanent."


    Dred Scott Vs. Sanford (1856): "Neither the Legislative, Executive nor the Judicial departments of the Federal Government can lawfully exercise any authority beyond the limits marked out by the Constitution."


    Miranda Vs. Ariz. 384 U.S. 436 at 491(1966): "Where rights are secured by Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them."



So as we can see, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (the war on drugs) is, Constitutionally speaking, a gross violation of a person's unalienable rights. Which I assert constitutes a human right's violation. And on top of that, as we can see, it violates the Constitution itself in many different ways. It tramples underfoot the basic principles our country was founded upon, slapping us all in the face -- especially those who bled for those principles.



(End Of Rant)

:smoke:



------



Sportndandy, the method that may be used that I was referring to -- a method that's been used successfully all throughout our history. The method used by labor unions to fight corporations. The method used by people during the prohibition to bring about the dismantling of an even more powerful law than an act (a constitutional amendment). The method frequently used by early Americans to lay the smack-down on arbitrary government laws. The method used by Andrew Hamilton while defending a newspaper printer by the name of John Peter Zenger of siditious libel for printing critical but true news stories about the Governor of New York Colony. That method is: JURY NULLIFICATION!!

Jury nullification has a LONG standing history in our country, and even going all the way back to English common law and the Magna Carta. American colonial juries regularly thwarted bad law sent over from mother England. Britain then retaliated by restricting both trial by jury and other rights which juries had won or protected. Result? The Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution!

Afterwards, to forever protect all the individual rights they'd fought for from future attacks by government, the Founders Fathers in three places included trial by jury meaning tough, fully informed juries in our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I mentioned above about labor unions. This is where we see the government beginning its attack on a "fully informed jury". The Supreme Court, under pressure from large corporations, ruled in a bitter split decision that courts no longer had to inform juries they could veto an unjust law. The giant corporations had lost numerous trials pressed against labor leaders trying to organize unions. Striking was against the law at that time. "Juries also ruled against corporations in damage suits and other cases, prompting influential members of the American Bar Association to fear that jurors were becoming too hostile to their clients and too sympathetic to the poor.

"Bad law" special-interest legislation which tramples our rights is no longer sent here from Britain. But our own legislatures (as you are aware) keep us well supplied. That is why today, more than ever, we need juries to be "fully informed" and ready to protect us, our rights and our founding principles.



    "If a juror accepts as the law that which the judge states then that juror has accepted the exercise of absolute authority of a government employee and has surrendered a power and right that once was the citizen's safeguard of liberty." --- (1788) (2 Elliots Debates, 94, Bancroft, History of the Constitution, 267)



Read: Jury Nullification: The Top Secrete Constitutional Right! http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/131jur.pdf






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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Your legal analysis is flawed
I support the legalization of marijuana for my own reasons, but we can't afford to use flawed arguments to do so.

Your interpretation of the 14th Amedment's equal protection clause is absolutely incorrect. Implying that it says that different chemicals substances are by law equal is a gross misinterpretation. The logical extrapolation of your argument would lead to the conclusion that nitroglycerine and sucrose (sugar) should be treated the same legally. People have the right to equality under the law, substances do not. Alcohol users and marijuana users are treated equally under the law. They both face fines and or imprisonment for using marijuana, but not necessarily (depending on circumstances like age or vehicle operation) for alcohol. The statutes treat people for the same offense equally.

As to your citing of the 9th Amendment, whether or not marijuana use is a "right" is a matter of opinion. The 9th Amendment is routinely ignored in its literal wording by the courts, and rightly so, because if taken to its extreme it would prohibit the government from prohibiting anything, even murder.

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document of the United States of America. It has no legal authority.

Not only is your reference to Marbury v. Madison taken out of context, but even in your context it would only apply if the people have established that there is a right to use marijuana. I think the people are still arguing about it unfortunately.

Your interpretation of Dred Scott v. Sanford would eliminate Affirmative Action, Social Security, Welfare, the National Banking System, just about any federal agency (like the EPA for example).

As far as Miranda v. Arizona is concerned, as long as it's debatable as to whether or not the Constitution specifically protects the right of an individual to harm oneself (more specifically to smoke marijuana), then it doesn't apply.

Rants are good, but don't let passion get ahead of solid argument. Making our case respectable means we have to be factually in the right.

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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The only valid argument is the one based on rights,
Edited on Tue May-24-05 06:52 PM by K-W
but since our society accepts the myths of 'gateway drugs' 'societal costs' and 'addiction' it doesnt matter. The myth provides the justification for restricting a behavior, which without justification would indeed be a clear infringement on liberty.

Congress is restricted by the constitution to making laws that serve the public good, and the 9th ammendment reinforces that fact, congress cannot assume that a given behavior is not a right, simply because it is not mentioned in the constitution.

If congress made cooking with garlic illegal tommarow, I think people would have little trouble seeing how it was an illigitimate burden on personal freedom. Marijuana prohibition is really no different, except that the existance of the mythology allows congress to appear to be attempting to serve the public good.

Basically the constitution does not grant congress the ability to make things illegal willy nilly.
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SoCalifer Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not my interpretation
Edited on Fri May-27-05 05:22 AM by SoCalifer


The 14th Amendment section in my post in which you cite as being a flawed interpretation is actually not my interpretation. It comes from both the ACLU & NORML.

And as far as your analysis of my invoking of the 9th Amendment, and how it would prohibit making a law against murder. I am sorry but I am afraid that you are incorrect. There's nothing in my correctly citing of the 9th Amendment that would prohibit States from writing laws making murder a crime. That's because the 10th Amendment gives the States that jurisdiction.

Please cite to me what law the federal government is going to charge you with if you commit murder.. Of course the answer is NONE. That's because it's a State's jurisdiction......and that's the whole point of both the 9th and 10th Amendments.

If there's nothing in the Constitution giving jurisdiction - then the Fed's have NO jurisdiction. That is of course before we lived in this post Constitutional era.

And that's also why when alcohol prohibition was implemented, the federal government got jurisdiction the only Constitutional way they legally can. They got it by getting a Constitutional Amendment --- Hello 9th Amendment and hello Marbury v. Madison.

The 9th and 10th Amendments define our country's whole principle of States being sovereign from the federal government in all matters not specifically granted to the federal government via the Constitution -and- in matters pertaining to the individual, the concept of English common law where no individual has committed any crime unless he has injured someone or their property, or impeded another person's freedom. And certainly committing murder is injuring someone else, whereas smoking marijuana isn't.

Now as far as the Declaration of Independence is concerned. Yes you're technically legally correct, but you're missing the point. The Declaration of Independence is cited often in court cases because it is a document declaring on what bases and principles we established this Republic of ours. So it is often used to corroborate an analysis of certain laws - which is the same way how I used it.

I am sorry but my post is not a rant, nor does it happen to be taking anything out of context. The only thing I see here (and I don't mean this in any insulting way whatsoever), is someone who is allowing emotions such as fear of certain things such as social security, etc. frighten him away from what is written in our founding documents and Supreme Court Rulings.

Trust me, I have studied all of our founding documents as well as many landmark Supreme Court cases for half my 40 years.

Our founding fathers and the making of our country is my favorite subject of study.


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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-11-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Cheap labor conservatism!
The reason America has such ridiculous, oppressive laws is that powerful people are profitting from them!

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/beattherightinthree.htm
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. It IS legal.
SCOTUS has and still is up holding Entheogenic uses under the First Amendment. Marijuana, peyote, and other CDS have been ruled legal for religious use. It is legal to smoke marijuana on federal ground for religious purposes.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. That isnt really true.
It is vaguely legal for some very specific groups of people to use some drugs religiously. For the rest of us it is always illegal everywhere, even if we claim it is religious use.
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suneel112 Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. It is easy to find a reason
I definitely agree, but the reasons for banning it...BIG BUSINESS

What do the Rethugs (and sometimes DLCers) look up to the most? BIG BUSINESS. Legalized marijuana would redefine the free market system. Since marijuana is easier to grow, softer on the lungs, and less addictive than tobacco, tobacco would basically fall.

That would be good for the average american, who wouldn't have to waste tons of $ per year on tobacco products, but it would seriously piss off big tobacco companies like Phillip Morris.
A new and effective medicine would also enrage the big pharmaceuticals, which are ripping average Americans off more and more each day.

A new fuel source? "Aww hayell naww", would say those all-hat-no-cattle Texan oil companies.
Strong Fibers? "Of course not," would say DuPont "The Miracles of Gunpowder and Explosives".

Even non-smokers would grow hemp for its other uses, medicinal, for the fibers, or even for "biofuel", a "new initiative" under the Bush administration. However, big bad business would be the worst loser in the legalization of marijuana or hemp.

Who benefits from keeping marijuana illegal? Drug Lords, Hoodlums, and Terrorists. Drug Lords and Hoodlums and the Bush family are partners in crime, looting, and oppression, and keep "new world order" in Latin America. International terrorists' (both Islamic and non-Islamic) roles also became clear last year, when they helped George W. Bush win another term in the White House. The terrorists are the ones that scare the world into taking the pig business crap. The terrorists are the ones pointing a sword to the neck, forcing the citizens of the world to eat the "new world order" bushit. Without them, how long do you think asshole Bush would have stayed in office? Without them, do you think * would have been able to pass any of his dictatorial and oppressive policies?

In any argument, there are parties that win from one policy, and parties that lose from the same policy. The losers of current drug policies are the police, who lose lives (from drug wars) and positive image (i.e. "pigs") are lost. Without the "War on Drugs", Police would be looked up to everywhere, even in the "ghetto" (albeit, with a little less racism involved). Police are human beings: they do not choose to be "assholes", they do it to put scraps on their table. The other losers in the current drug policy are the citizens (workers; 95 to 99.9 percent of all Americans), who spend thousands extra per capita per year on corporate scams, extra police funds, and programs and precautions to deal with the increase of crime caused by the illegality of marijuana.

The winners of the current drug policy: Pig Business, Drug Lords, Hoodlums, Terrorists, and Bushes.

It is clear that under *, there is no "new initiative". * keeps the old initiative of oppression, tyranny, and fascism.
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ProgressAlwaysWins Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. "The only way to make legalization palatable is to make it profitable"
Soooooooo...

TAX IT!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. One thing's for sure
When it does become legal, which I think is inevitable when Generation X is ruling the country, and all the old farts of the "Greatest" Generation who thinks it's "dope" are dead...

And the oil and liquor and tobacco and health and pharmaceutical and, yes, even law enforcement cartels have their systems in line to make more money off it being legal than they ever did off it being illegal...


We better be ready with a HUGH welfare safety net to catch all the folks who now make their living selling it, only because it is illegal.
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hammer your legislator..tell Him/Her that you are tired of the bs.
I'm just about tired of our elected officials telling us what we can and cannot do as adults.Sick buggers.


Polling Point is doing a survey about Marijuana legalization...You can visit the poll here..

http://survey.pollingpoint.com/3930136

You'll need to cut and paste I imagine....At the end of the poll,it does ask some personal info,but you can click thru by selecting the -next- button.

On another note,it seems that I do not qualify for starting my own posts.Ahhh democracy....I do apologize for hijacking your thread tho.

:)
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Hi Oldenuff!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. It may be legal by year's end in Nevada and Colorado
In will be on the November ballot in both states.

Legal weed.
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Never say never
It may well be that the tobacco growers, with their great power, will want to push for another cash crop. In that sense there is a potentially profitable industry for corporations to make money from.

I'm not saying this will happen any time soon, but you said never... and I don't see it that way.
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