Parental rights petitioners made me want to puke! My vent...

[bliss_eternal]

I'd like to pre-empt this with I HAVE read the thread on this board about the parental right to know if their child is aboarting thread. I am educated on the issue. However I don't support it.

I had a family member that wasn't taught 'the facts of life.' She was from that era where parents were too ashamed or embarrassed to actually talk to their kids about sex, protection, etc. They just said, 'wait til' you get married.' She relied on some guy to tell her and they got pregnant. Her mother FORCED them to marry and her to have the child, at sixteen. They lived with various levels of abuse and dysfunction. So I have very strong opinions on this issue.

Ok--moving on.

Today, out running errands, I was walking past Toys R Us. A woman asked if I was a registered voter. I responded that I was. She then smiled at me and asked if I would sign her petition for parental rights to know if their children are aborting. I said no and started walking away.

I'm sorry. It makes me sick that these people would hover and approach PARENTS in front of a store that gets lots of PARENTS. I know they are just doing their job--and of course it makes sense to go where they can get the most signatures. It makes me sick. It really made me angry to have to encounter this while out attempting to run a simple errand.

Done venting--and ranting,thank you.

Bliss

[RoeBear]

1. You lose me on this one

parents SHOULD have that right.

For god's sake the school nurse won't give out aspirin without a parent signature.

[shraby]

2. What about the girl who is impregnated by

her father, brother, uncle, etc? That really makes for a sticky wicket if she has to get permission from her Mom or Dad. They will want to know "who".

[bliss_eternal]

3. You are entitled to your opinion.

I'm not looking for an argument or a debate on this issue.

I needed to vent, and I did.

[AndyTiedye]

4. What Purpose Would That Serve?

You want the law to force your kid to get your permission to get an abortion.

WHY?

So you can punish her for getting pregnant?

So you can force her to bear a child she doesn't want?

Do you think that you can prevent her from having sex by passing this law?

[RoeBear]

5. So I know

what medical procedures my daughter is having.

The tattoo parlor won't give her a tattoo without my ok.

[renaissanceguy]

6. With all due respect

I doubt many of kids out there will tell their parents they have sex.

Do YOU talk to your parents openly about your sex life? Did you when you were a teenager?

-------------------------------
JESUS W. BUSH has arrived! Outspoken political merchandise at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[REP]

8. She Need Your Permission To Give Birth?

To be a teenaged mother?
To give abandon her newborn to strangers for adoption?
No.
Then why does she she need permission to abort?

[Jackie97]

11. If kids aren't competent enough to accept aspirin....

then how are they competent enough to handle forced child birth, becoming a parent, or being forced to give up their child (which might haunt them for the rest of their life)?

[REP]

12. Excellent Points!

:thumbsup:

[Jackie97]

13. Thanks.

I really like your sigline. LOL.

[put out]

16. Off topic, but a competent school nurse

would not give a child aspirin with a doctor's order, with your permission, or for any other reason excepting an underlying medical condition necessitating aspirin therapy. And this would be in consultation with the child's physician, not with you.

So, more on the point, you could sign all you want about giving your child aspirin and a school nurse would tell you to go educate yourself about the dangers of aspirin use for those under 18. In this case, your word would not be final.

Parents, even those well-meaning, do foolish things with regards to their child's health. They do not have that right, I don't give a fig about their opinions.

[Jackie97]

7. To me.....

These parental rights people are simply wanting the right to ruin their kid's life. They might not see it that way, but I do.

Heck, these parents who don't want their kids knowing about sex are putting all of society in danger as far as I'm concerned. That kid could learn it from a person they met at school, and then have sex with other people; not realizing that they have an STD.

But we have to make some oversensitive parents feel better.

Most kids will tell their parents if they're pregnant. There's normally a good reason when one wants to keep it a secret.

Want your kids to be open with what's going on with them? TALK TO THEM. Constantly talk to them. Form a trusting relationship with them (instead of an "I'm the property owner, you're the property" type of relationship). Form the type of relationship with your child where they can trust you enough to come to you. Stop asking the government to do your job. That's actually how I look at this. This is about parents asking the government to do their job because they either don't know how to or won't put the effort it takes into building a trusting relationship with their kids. My mother used to tell me for a while that she would force an abortion on me as a kid. As a result, I decided that I would never tell her if I was pregnant. She eventually got passed that stuff, and formed a more trusting relationship. I never got pregnant. I never would have kept it a secret after that.

[REP]

9. Rant On!

It's just histrionic pro-lie bullshit. Are they making these girls get consent to give birth and become mothers? Of course not! Are they going to make these girls sit through lectures that tell them just what they'll be giving up (sleep, free time, spending money, possibly school, dating, etc) if they choose to become mommies? I don't think so.

How come these asshats will trust them to make the right choice to give birth, but not about terminating pregnancies? Gosh, do I smell an agenda?

[bliss_eternal]

10. Thank you ALL--who supported me

in my rant.

I just found it offensive that these people were in my path yesterday--through no fault of their own, or mine. But honestly they do piss me off.

BTW, one of my very best friends TRIED to be a good kid. She TRIED to be open with her mother about sex, as her mother asked her to be. (Note she had a very sexually repressed mother who's idea of sex ed was telling the girl to wait until marriage). Anyway, after the girl became sexually active, she TRIED to talk to the mother about it.
Guess what? The mother called the girl a slut and a whore and threw her out of the house. On the surface, no one would think this woman was abusive to the daughter, but she was--big time.

Had my friend EVER become pregnant, this is NOT the kind of person that would be supportive or help her through the situation. For girls like her, I want to preserve this right for others.

Everyone isn't born into a perfect family that will work through things with them. And abuse isn't always as evident as we may like to believe it is. It doesn't look the same in every situation.

Stepping off my soap box now.

[politicat]

14. Agreed. Parental consent hurts more than it helps.

Every girl faced with an unintentional pregnancy has a tough row to hoe as it is. She has to make the decision that will affect the rest of her life, one way or the other. She has to deal with the physical effects of pregnancy, and the first weeks aren't pleasant. She has to deal with a society that condemns her no matter what she choses. And her decisions affect not just herself, but another potential person.

Why make this harder? If all families were perfect, if all families could talk about sex and sensuality in a matter-of-fact and comfortable way, then just perhaps, parental notification might be okay. But there are no perfect families, and many of the girls who would be forced to notify their families would suffer far more for doing so than by they are for taking care of themselves.

When my step-brother and his (now) wife got pregnant, her family threw her out for informing them that she intended to have an abortion rather than quit school, get married and be Susie Housewife for my step-brother. When she and my step-brother went to my molecule-thief father and stepmother, their treatment was not better. My father called her a slut to her face and a murderer. My step-mother banished both of them from the house, regardless of their decision. Her family refused to take her back even when she consented to carry the pregnancy and give it up for adoption. She knew she was not ready to be a mother.

Now homeless, pregnant and desperate, both of them were in deep trouble. They did marry, eventually, but since AZ Access Health Care won't pay for abortions, they had to continue the pregnancy for an extra 4 weeks while they scraped up the money. I eventually paid for most of it. This is what parental notification got a girl who was trying to play by the rules. Had they borne the child, K. would not be graduating from NAU this fall, and D (step-brother) would probably be in the military or in jail for stealing cars to support his wife and child, or they'd be divorced and K would be on welfare. At 17, neither of them had the skills necessary to support themselves.

To force children, who are not blind, and do see what is facing them with more clarity than their elders (especially in this case) to put up with such abuse from the people who are supposed to be helping them grow into adults is insane. It indicates contempt for the child's ability to think for herself, contempt for her situation by valuing a blob of cells above a person that the parent supposedly loves and wishes the best for. It indicates a selfish wish on the parts of the parents who refuse to allow their daughters to abort to remain children or to supply grandchildren. It shows that the parents are far more likely to view their children as possessions rather than people.

I have nothing but contempt for people who cannot separate their children from themselves. That is nothing more than emotional slavering.

[bleedingheart]

15. I agree

I have a young daughter. I hope that the relationship she has with me as she gets older is good enough for her to come to me in her times of trouble....but if not..I don't think the government should force her to do so...

[noamnety]

17. The results of parental notification laws

1. It encourages teen suicide
2. It encourages back alley abortions
3. It encourages pregnant teens to run away if they don't feel they can face their parents
4. If the parents are likely to react violently (and many do initially, even those that in the end are supportive), it puts a pregnant woman at risk of violence

Is it really worth all that for a parent to feel they've got some "control" over their daughter? Even anti-abortion judges who once supported those laws, after seeing them in action, came to change their mind, saying the laws turned out to be unnecessarily cruel and traumatic for the teens, and did not even reduce the amount of abortions that occurred. I don't have the reference from that, the source was cited on a forum that's down now - but hopefully someone who recognizes it will come along and cite a reference.

This is a case where the positive (more open communication between parents and teens) is something the government should not be mandating, and the negatives are so detrimental to a person's wellbeing (unlike simply notifying parents about aspirin) that the state has a compelling reason not to enact such laws.

[highlonesome]

18. Can problems be literally solved?

Parental notification for abortions is a complex issue. But as with so many other things it's a question of can this problem be solved and in solving it do we just make a new problem which is bigger and deeper.

I have a 4yo daughter. Some day she'll be sexually active and I know this is something I need to start addressing NOW. Also, as the dad of a girl I have a great amount of empathy for all the other daughters out there.

So there are two issues here. First: underage girls are always going to get pregnant. The question will be how many, how often and why. Related to that, some will be able seek their parents, others won't and in some cases there will be a tragedy. This is the argument in favor of non-notification.

But: parental rights to parent are THE cornerstone of a free society typified by limited government. Other than -- ironically -- one's right over one's own body, this is perhaps the paramount value of a republican democracy.

If we begin to deny this parental right we jeopardize a myriad of civil rights that in the long run protect more young people from harm than the tragedies related to parental notification:

1. 14th amendment. Many supreme court precedents protect the right to parent as guaranteed under the 14th amendment in that the right can't be denied without "due process of law." That means the person must be some sort of threat and have their day in court before the right to parent can b e taken away. So you think we should set the precedent that rights can be removed without due process?

2. Freedom of religion -- separation of church and state. Given that these women are underage and parents won't be notified, who'll pay for the abortion? If the government pays for it through taxation, that forces people who support choice, but oppose abortion on religious grounds since a portion of their labor will be used to provide abortions. In the end, there is no more "choice" -- only forced support of abortion by the government regardless of religious views.

3. Liability. Since an underage minor cannot legally consent to a business contract or sign a waiver form or file a lawsuit on her own behalf, what happens if there is malpractice occurs? Does the government file the lawsuit to seek compensation? They don't have that power -- see #1.

Beleive me, I feel for these young women, but the fact of the matter is that in trying to literally "solve" the problems of these women we create so many more for millions of people. Is that what we really want to do?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. Are parental consent

and parental notification the same thing?

I can see that the first is self-evidently a bad thing, but there's certainly a case to be made for the second. I think that the cases where a parent would place undue pressure on their child probably outweigh those where they could provide support, but I don't think it's an open-and-shut case.