I lost a friend today because she found out I'm pro-choice :-(

[Heddi]

We're both in Nursing School---3rd quarter--nearly 1/2 way done with school and 1/2 way towards being RN's.

Today was the first day of clinical rotation at the hospital. The hospital I work at (only 2 in our small community) used to be a Catholic hospital (many many moons ago). For the past 15 years, it's not been a religious hospital but rather privately owned and for-profit. However, 15 years ago, many of the nurses & dr's working there were Catholic, and were dismayed at the "outrageous" number of tubal ligations performed on women that had C-Section deliveries. They protested, they won, and so the hospital closed its OB department. Only one of two hospitals in our small, rural, poor community offers OB services, and they're TERRIBLY overcroweded. Any women who aren't fortunate enough to be placed in that hospital are sent to the next closest OB center, some 50 miles away.

Today, the class was discussing Medical Ethics, particularly nursing ethics. The subject of pharmacists refusing to fill BC scripts came up, and I was vocally opposed to that in all manner and form, and said so. I also expressed dismay that 1/2 of the hospitals in town refuses to perform OB services to women because they don't like doing tubal ligations. I felt that was cutting off their nose to spite their face, and honestly putting the lives of women and their forthcoming children at grave risk---the population here is VERY poor, very un-educated, high migrant population. People around here don't have cars. There's no public trans to the 50-mile-away hospital. THey're sort of stuck, and as a result there are alot of neonates and pre-term babies that are born at home that are rushed into the hospital post-birth due to complications. Mothers are often admitted to the hospital with sepsis (blood poisioning) because of unsanitary birthing done at home---cords cut with household scissors, etc.

So my friend, a good friend of mine, said that she was glad that there was only one abortion clinic in town (actually, within a 100 mile radius), and she hoped that within her lifetime, that facility would be shut down as well.

She believes in abstinence-only education.

She believes that pharmacists have a right to refuse contraception if it goes against their personal ethics.

I said "so are you in favour of a doctor refusing to treat a gay patient because it violates their personal regious ethics? Do you believe that criminals should be refused medical treatment because their crimes may violate someone's personal ethic? What about Racists--should a racist nurse or Dr be allowed to deny service to someone of a different racial, cultural, or religious background?"

She didn't say anything.

I said "You know, once the government has a right to force birth (by banning abortion), they have the right to force abortions as well. NO ONE has the right to force me to be a parent if I don't want to be, and NO ONE has the right to force me to abort a wanted pregnancy either".

She didn't say anything.

I said "So what if a pharmacist was a Christian Scientist and didn't believe in ANY medical intervention AT ALL? You know, that sickness is a sign of a weak mind and a lack of a relationship with God. Would you support them refusing to fill blood pressure meds? Heart meds? Chemotherapy meds? Or is that different?"

She didn't say anything.

After class, she came up to me and said that she thought I was "a better person than that." I asked her what she meant and she said "I thought you cared about people. But you don't care about anyone but yourself. There are millions of babies, you know, that have NO chance because they're killed before they're born."

I said "Well, how convenient that you're anti-abortion---you have your kids, you got your tubes tied, and you NEVER have to worry about an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy. How convenient for you to thrust your choices upon others."

She walked away. She left a message on my cellphone asking that I not call her again, and that she'd be returning the presents I got for her daughter's 11th birthday last month. SHe doesn't want her daughter to accept presents from someone as selfish and uncaring as me. She didn't want to be a hypocrite. She thinks it's best we're not friends anymore.

---

Now, we've not been friends for years--I just met her in September. I live in a very rural, very Republican area of the state, and we got along well. I knew she was somewhat conservative, and she knew I was very liberal. That never was an issue before. But now it is. My personal beliefs (that I only brought up in a classroom setting which is supposed to be a "Safe Zone" (safe from harassment, judgement, etc)) are being held against me.

This is the first time I've ever had someone hold my political and ethical beliefs against me. First time..actually second time I lost a friend over what I believed and (more importantly) REFUSED to back down on my opinion because they disagreed with it.

It hurts. It hurts that people can be so blind, and so judgemental. I guess now that I type this out, I'm glad she's not my friend. I don't think I could have sustained a permanent relationship with someone as closed-minded as she.

It still hurts, though.

:(

[dsc]

1. So if she refuses to be your friend that is harassment?

I would think someone who favors choice would favor hers not to be your friend. At least you found out now and not after a year or decade long friendship.

[MissWaverly]

19. I am sorry you lost your friend but your soul is more important

if you become a chamaleon to please everybody then you lose yourself,
look I am pro-choice, and the reason I am is that I was really abused as a kid and so were my siblings and I came to the conclusion right then that some people were not fit to be parents. You cannot force people to be parents anymore than you could force them to be eskimos, how can you sentence a child to a life of abuse, who could do that.

[BamaLefty]

2. And What Has She Done To Give These Children That Would

be born a better life.

And no, bitching about it w/o solutions is not a answer.

That's okay, we're your friends Heddi. :)

[aquart]

3. Yes, it hurts.

That lovely woman thinks she's a good caring Christian. She'd burn you at the stake to save your soul and never forget it.

[yellowdogintexas]

4. she is the one who decided the friendship should end, not you

and for very offensive reasons.

I have lots of friends with whom I could have serious disagreements over certain moral issues. We just have an agree to disagree truce, and don't talk about it.

Your arguments were excellent by the way and you are going to make a great nurse.

And how sorry I feel for the poor people in your area who are denied care for such ridiculous reasons.

It is sad when we can't just appreciate the things we do like about a person and ignore the rest.

It is her loss.

and yeah, it still hurts.

[punpirate]

5. Not much comfort...

... but it's clear that the choice was hers, not yours. You have your views, and she has hers. If your views interfere with her faith, that's her choice.

For what it's worth: the world is full of assholes, and a great many of them want to be your friend--because they get something from it, not you. Your "friend" didn't get from you what she expected. Your friend is the loser here, not you.

Cheers.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. That doesn't sound like much of a friend.

It sounds like you are well rid of her, and better now than after you had been friends for a longer time and gotten closer. I understand that it still hurts though. I'm sorry you had to go through that and that you have to be subjected to other people's close mindedness.

I will probably by starting nursing school this fall, by the way. It's an LPN program, and I will have to temporarily relocate to a different state, since all the programs here have 3 year long waiting lists. I'm a little bit nervous about it.

[Ironpost]

7. Sure it does and you are much stronger for it.

[teevee99]

8. We need more people like you

who are willing to stand up to these facists.

I told my family (mom, dad, grandma, aunts, etc.) that they were singing the praises of men like jim bunning and george w. bush who sent our soldiers to die FOR A LIE.

They all sat there in silence, but maybe if we start putting the neanderthal regressives in their place, they'll be ashamed of their backward 17th century witch huntin' bullshit and we won't have to hear it.

schiavo
lewinsky
gay marriage ammendment
abortion
judges going over their boundaries

this is all bullshit.

[DURHAM D]

9. One day her daughter will need you or someone like you in

her life. Poor child - a mental case for a mother.

[CAcyclist]

10. I'm sorry that she hurt you

She's the hypocrit and she's the one who doesn't care about people.

[roguevalley]

17. what a sad person she is. she hasn't a damned clue what it means

to be in your profession. Hugs to you. We love you. You showed her something she's never had handed to her: Her hypocritical attitudes, a complete lack of thought about where things could go and she turned it back on you. Anyone so small as to turn back presents from children is a pretty sad person and no Christian. Turn the other cheek? Nah. Judge not lest ye also be judged? Not on your life. She can't do either because she is a form Christian -all about show- and not a content Christian, someone who lives the tough rules of interaction and goodness that Jesus expects. She's confused political belief with Christian belief. She can't stand having the blinkers removed from her simple mind.

This usually is cleared up when they try to open the Pearlie Gates and find their passkey doesn't work. Hugs, honey. You are a pearl of great price and much admired by me.

[virgdem]

11. Trust me, Heddi...

friends like that you don't need. If she can't look past political differences in other people, then she is the loser in your relationship. No loss there. Good friends are hard to find, but are worth keeping when you do find them. She obviously was not a good friend.

[ktowntennesseedem]

12. It hurts a lot, but good for you for not backing down.

You stated your position firmly and clearly, and she kept quiet. It could have easily been the other way around, with her parroting all the standard pro-life (a.k.a. pro-fetus) rhetoric, thus putting you on the defensive unable to think of a quick response. (I've been there; mind went blank on the spot, but I thought of a hundred brilliant comebacks five minutes after the converstion was over.)

I still have some friends who are very conservative, but I consider them my friends because we mutually agree it's okay to disagree. When someone decides that disagreements disallow a friendship, they were never really a friend to begin with. Still hurts, but you did the right thing.

[Poppyseedman]

13. Just interested, but based on your description of where you live

it sounds like a third world country. Your profile says Seattle.

I had no idea Seattle was in such need of basic services

....the population here is VERY poor, very un-educated, high migrant population. People around here don't have cars. There's no public trans to the 50-mile-away hospital. They're sort of stuck, and as a result there are alot of neonates and pre-term babies that are born at home that are rushed into the hospital post-birth due to complications. Mothers are often admitted to the hospital with sepsis (blood poisoning) because of unsanitary birthing done at home---cords cut with household scissors, etc.

[Heddi]

31. I moved from Seattle to go to nursing school....

I still live in WA state, but on the eastern part of the state. I haven't changed my location in my profile because my heart and soul are still in Seattle...only my body is out here in Ruraltown USA

[blogbear]

14. Hang in there and don't feel alone. Yes, it hurts all of us to be

around people who can lecture and judge but seemingly not hear. For so many who claim to 'live by the golden rule' I'm afraid that many of these folks would never be willing to stand still for being treated the way they all too often treat others. A real friend will listen and allow your point of view to be expressed regardless of differences in views. Best wishes to you and thanks for sharing, friend!

[mitchtv]

15. well, I admire you,and,

I'll bet you made a friend or two in that class who admire your honesty and professionalism.You will see soon.

[HockeyMom]

16. Catholic Hospital

Recently, our town non sectarian hospital was bought out by the Catholic diocese. The nurses, doctors, townspeople tried to fight it to no avail. The main reason was based on the catholic view of birth control, abortion, etc. Fortunately, we live in a populated suburb and I have heard that the police and paramedics will take a rape victim to another town 5 to 10 miles away rather than have them go to this catholic hospital. My daughter has a friend who is an cop and told her about this "unwritten" policy.

I was really shocked to hear they are doing this totally ON THEIR OWN. Good to know that there are still come people around who CARE about women. I applaud the police and paramedics.

[cornermouse]

18. I think she's in the wrong profession.

Your former friend should never have become a nurse.

You haven't lost much. You really haven't.

[Mike Nelson]

20. I'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE, TOO...

I've had this happen, too. They think it's great that society allows their freedom, but they will fight to make their views are the only ones allowed. They can marry and have babies as they desire, but others are not permitted these choices. They leave nothing for God to judge. They seem "normal," but will stab you in the back. We must stop being "friends" with people like this... their "faith" is more important than you are, be glad you are rid of this woman.

[Pthalo BlueMoon]

21. I'm sorry...

...you lost a friend. She must have a really closed mind.

Fortunately, one of my best friends is a baptist fundie, and despite our religious and philosophical differences, we remain friends.

It's best now that you find out, I guess. :(

[no_vote_no_count]

22. Ask her, if she's truly concerned about

children---not just the unborn ones---then why did she have children of her own? Shouldn't she have adopted some of the already born, unwanted kids? There are millions of children waiting to be adopted, so wasn't she very selfish to bring children into the world when those others are without permanent families?

Why do people like that "friend" believe that unborn babies are more important onees than ones that are already here and already in need?

Like others said, "friends" like that you don't need. I'm struggling w/ some friends on my blog that I know voted Repub. Their reasons don't hold up, other than voting straight party-line. I feel that their votes contributed to the problems that we are facing now...but I don't write them off because of their votes. Instead, I try to educate them! ;-D

[Demit]

23. Making her daughter return your presents? That's really petty.

--and so unnecessary that it borders on sick. That's a prime example of being selfish & uncaring. THAT'S not caring about anyone but yourself. Foolish woman.

[Spangle]

24. To much thinking for her to handle

Sounds like you gave her to much to think about. DIDN'T want to think about. Your arguments pointed out the HUGE hole in these issues. Most likely she is only use to people around her that think exactly like her. So since they are all in agreement, they don't REALLY discuss the issue.

Since she was bold in her comments to you IN CLASS, she expected others to be in agreements. Since she is use to the "yes" group, sounds like stood out like a sore thumb. Kinda embarrasing. You gave her a very public slap down. She had no comment to prove her case. She didn't EXPECT to have to prove it, ever.

These days the MO of the Christian Right is to dis-associate with those who do not agree with you... to Punish THEM. She thinks she is punishing you, she is trying to hurt you, to make you wise up to her way of thinking. For those who are desprete for friendship, this practice works.

She doesn't believe in choice. She is proving it in more ways then one. No choice in thought. No choice in action. No Choice. YOU do not have the right to chose to think differently then her.

Returning the items you bought a CHILD, is very childish and controling. But she doesn't want the reminders of YOU in her home. And she is willing to hurt her child over her pettiness. YOur seeing the REAL her. She isn't the type of friend to stick with you through thick and thin. She is very shelfish.

While it hurts, I'm glad you found out now. You will be more open to other friendships that might be more REAL. You sound like a very carring and thoughtful person. You deserve better then her. REally you do.

IF she does drop off her daughters stuff you should tell her that you could have lived with knowing they had a difference of opinion on those issues. But your glad the situation came up because how she HANDLED it showed her true colors. Shelfish and thoughtless people do NOT make good true friends. Your not a back slapper or a yes person. she needs someone to tell her how RIGHT she is all the time to stroke her ego. No questioning allowed.

[PA Mamma]

25. I am sorry

Thanks for posting that...
Oops gotta get the door --
Back --
I know that it hurts to be thought of as selfish and uncaring when the exact opposite is true. The Truth is very threatening to the "blind faithful." and oppressed. They can't accept it -- it would shatter their entire world.
But you are obviously strong and You will continue, along with us, to work at making the world a better place for all and fighting for the rights of her daughter.

[Warpy]

26. Wait until that bitch's daughter gets pregnant

I have a feeling her tune will change.

In the meantime, tell her you are sorry she turned out to be so unchristian and leave it at that.

[REP]

27. You Didn't Lose a Friend

Someone like that is incapable of friendship. I'm sorry she's such a wretched bitch, though.

[IrishDemocrat]

28. I'll say

This woman does seem wretched. I have a lot of friends and family that are pro-life living in a Catholic area. I never got shafted like that because I'm pro-choice, but many of my male friends do ride me pretty hard for being pro-choice though. They can at times make me sound horrible for thinking that, but know I'm a rational human being that came to such a conclusion.

[Warpy]

29. Tell them

that if you were anatomically exempt from ever suffering the condition or having to make the choice, you'd probably find it easy to have such superior morals.

There's nothing more useless on this planet than an antiabortion MALE.

[bleedingheart]

30. She was never your friend...not if she could say something like that

[Heddi]

32. Thanks, everyone, for your very kind words

After I wrote this post last night, I went off the computer, sat in the living room and studied and studied and studied--you know, just to get my mind off of it (and to prepare for tests..you know...school stuff)

I had a bit of trepidation going back to the hospital today for clinical. I really really really didn't want to 'get into it' with her or anyone else. I try to keep all drama as far away from my professional career as possible---that includes classrooms, hospital rooms, etc. I mean, I'm at the hospital to LEARN and to SERVE PATIENTS. Not to get into petty bitchy fights with someone because of personal differences of opinions.

Well luckily, her assignment was at another part of the hospital so I didn't have to interact with her at all.

I was still....nervous? anxious? about how my clinical instructor and my other classmates would act, since all of this happened at the end of the day yesterday.

As strongly as I believe what I believe, I *DO* live in a very conservative, very Republican, very closed-minded part of WA. I'm the 'lone liberal' practically in my class. There are people who are liberal-leaning, but not Seattle-Brand liberals, you know---feisty and progressive and 'radical'--like me. I still have a year and a half left in this program.....I don't want to be isolated. Aside from my husband and my classmates, I don't know anyone here, I have no friends here outside of school, and it's very lonely sometimes and the thought of being ostracized for my beliefs was making me very depressed.

Honestly--I was scared today. I felt very alone and very small walking into that hospital, KNOWING in my heart that I had just sealed my fate and was going to have to continue school (and subsiquent work in the community) a pariah.

My assignment this AM was in PACU -- recovery room. My instructor saw me and told me my assignment, and I nodded, not really saying anything. I walked towards the unit and she put her hand on my shoulder and said "You know, you were very courageous yesterday. It's not often that people so freely speak their mind in this program about controvertial subjects. I applaud you for that. You did great."

I said "**** doesn't want to be my friend anymore because of what I said. SHe said I'm a selfish person." I felt like I was going to cry---I've been called selfish for not having children, for going to school at age 29, for moving from SC to WA for a better life (away from my & hubby's family)....selfish is one thing I am NOT, but it's the word that stings me the most.

She said "Honey, you're not selfish, and you're not a bad person. Don't let her inability to have a debate make you think you're something you're not. If you ever need to talk, about this, about school, about anything, you know how to reach me."

I felt better, but still was fearful of how my classmates would treat me.
At the end of the day, in conference, several (not all) classmates came up to me and said that they were proud of what I said---that they were afraid of 'getting into an argument' over how they felt.

I was releived. I felt justified. I felt un-ostracized.

I still don't know what it's going to be like once I have to interact with my now non-friend in the future---we're working together several days throughout the quarter, and she sits next to me in lecture.

---

You know---all my life I've had friends who have vehemently disagreed with me, and that I've vehemently disagreed with on so many subjects---but we were always able to say "Look, I know you believe X and I believe Y, so why argue about it? I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change mine, so if we're going to talk about X and Y, let's do it civilly and with respect for the other's opinions" and ti's worked beautifully.

I don't WANT to be around people who have mirror-images of my views. THat's like talking to myself. I like to play Devil's Advocate and sometimes advcoate positions that I don't agree with, just to see the other side of the argument. The only other friend I lost was my best friend from childhood because I refused to support the War on Terror and she thought that was wrong. So be it.

Again, thank you all for your comments. As crazy as it sounds, I was afraid that maybe I was 'out of line'--that I was no better than Anti-Choicers who use any opportunity to get up on their soapbox and preach.

Thank you.

I wish all of you were in my class :)

[Ms Chicklet]

33. Wow!

I'm so glad it worked out so well! Sounds like you're richer for the experience. You gained respect from others, respect for yourself, and lost someone who really wasn't a friend.

[noamnety]

34. As soon as I read she supports abstinance only education

My first thought was I bet she uses birth control. And then as I continued reading, I saw I was right.

Wouldn't it be great if the fundies could understand that if their arbitrary rules are so impossible to live by that even the staunchest supporters can't do it themselves, maybe there's a problem?

[Book Lover]

35. And she wants to be a nurse?

My mother knew women like that in her program, and I know of at least one who changed her mind once she started to really medically understand the issues around pregnancy. In this woman's case, it is possible that she'll change her tune once she gets more floor experience.

[TheOriginalAmerican]

36. I know it hurts.

Some people of such a conservative nature can't begin to understand that we're caring people because they think they are so right in their own mind.
As much as it may hurt, you don't necessarily want a friend like that anyway. You'll find yourself doing everything possible to keep from offending her for the sake of keeping your friendship.

[Kerrytravelers]

37. When she returns the child's gifts... refuse them Instead...

... suggest she donate them to the foster children that she, as someone who believe in forced birth, should be taking in as her part of taking care of our nation's uncared for children. Or, suggest that she take the gifts to the nearest Special Education Class for Severly Disabled Children below the poverty line. (I'm in education. I spend a lot of time in these classrooms. Odds tend to be these children are drug and alachol afflicted babies who are abandoned or taken away from their parents.)

Ten bucks she'll have nothing to say. What a horrible woman she is.