Bullshit ....... De La Hoya Kicked his Ass ......

[doublethink]

That is all ..... okay look at the first 5 or six rounds ... Oscar hunted him down .... Mayweather didn't do SHIT! <WTF> .... The rest of the fight ..... Mayeather running ... is he under contract to HBO? BULLSHIT.

BULL FUCKING SHIT. Peace. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. It Was Fair.

[doublethink]

2. BULLSHIT.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. It Was Perfectly Fair.

[doublethink]

It was perfect bullshit.

Did you watch the same fight? Come on......

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Seriously; It Was Cross The Board Indisputably Fair.

[doublethink]

16. It was perfect bullshit.

Did you watch the same fight? Come on......

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Seriously; It Was Cross The Board Indisputably Fair.

[doublethink]

21. Bullshit.

:) .... um and might I say now .... your full of bullshit on a few other topics I disagree with you here on DU. But that's for another day ...... all in fun tonight. Peace. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. You Keep Saying Bullshit Cause Your Talking With Your Heart And Not Your Mind.

But looking at it from a non-vested non-emotional yet objective and rational viewpoint, you'll find that it was fair as fair can be and completely on the up and up.

[sandnsea]

25. Because you say fair?

I don't care how many times you say "fair", and rationalize it as having a greater truth because it comes from your so-called "mind" - you still haven't said a single thing to prove you're right.

[doublethink]

28. Watch the fight ....... again turn down the sound.

Don't be influenced by the anouncers ...... Who won? Was set up by the 6th round. Bullshit. Peace. :)

on edit ..... ment to respond to post # 22 ..... sorry. :hug:

[tiptoe]

61. I agree.

Boxing's become no better than the WWE, which at least represents itself as entertainment, not sport, while announcers Lampley, Merchant and [guest] don tuxedos to present an aire of class and respectability to boxing events, the outcome of which I've come to expect are predicated on maximization-of-revenues considerations, taking into account, too, rematch valuations.

I can't even recall the fighters in one televised event years ago, but rather only the overriding, ever-lasting memory of the post-fight stunned expressions ( :wow: ) of tuxedo-ed Merchant and Lampley eyeing one another in awkward, mutual disbelief of a fight-decision that went counter to everything they had analysed and commented upon during the fight itself, with such a degree of disbelievability that the two seemed more pre-occupied with how utterly CLOWNISH they must appear in their tuxedos, helping to dignify a televised, seeming-scam.

They were practically speechless, staring at one another or downwards, anywhere but directly into the camera, fumbling for the right words...

...and only the guest announcer that evening, the ever merchandising-savvy Rev. George Foreman (also in tux), was able to collect a pragmatic common sense, beam his patented grin to engage the cameras directly -- not saying anything -- but merely using his charisma to distract attention from the other two semi-silenced professionals having difficulty "negotiating face" for what had just transpired beyond all comprehensibility (other than fraud).

I think I'm giving up boxing (again) until the announcers shed their tuxedos. ;)

The boxing "game" seems to be kinda like election fraud: See how finely desired-outcomes can be managed without attracting suspicion.

Merchant's pre-fight message was delivered with caution, with a slow turn to the camera, angled/indirect, face sightly-downturned, as if presentation of pre-fight odds hasn't been the most relevant preludes to past fight commentary: Mayweather a 2-to-1 favorite.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Well, It Was Perfectly Fair. Can You Tell Me Why They Wouldn't Have Judge It Fairly?

Please; indulge us with your conspiracy.

[doublethink]

26. Wasn't fair .... it was bullshit ......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Your Emotions Are Getting The Better Of You. In The Coming Days, Looking Back, WIth A Fresh Mind,

you'll see it was totally fair.

[doublethink]

35. Pff .....

[pimpbot]

3. Uh, did you see the landed punch %s

De la hoya threw a lot more punches, but most missed. I dont like Mayweather's style either but I think he won this fight. I'd rather see them out there wailing on each other Mike Tyson style :)

[doublethink]

5. He didn't touch De La Hoya .... bullshit.

on edit: spelling ..... BULLSHIT!

[pimpbot]

9. Speaking of bullshit....

You're full of it.

[doublethink]

10. Fuck you.

:)

[pimpbot]

12. Thanks

Now I know what a conversation with Dubya must be like.

[doublethink]

14. See post 12 ... I don't back down ..... like De La Hoya ....

Yea Fuck Bush too ... don't back down from him either. Geesh ..... peace. :)

[doublethink]

13. Asshole.

:rofl:

[sandnsea]

20. Yeah and the machines gave it to Bush too

I've never seen such a bizarre set of punch stats. I like technical fights, but Mayweather just didn't throw that any more punches than Oscar, and Oscar blocked most of them anyway. He didn't even have a mark on his face, and Mayweather's eyes were swollen. I don't know what people were looking at with Mayweather.

[doublethink]

24. I Love You!!!

Gawd .. we watched the same fight! Marry Me !!! :) All in fun .... Geesh Oscar won that fight hands down. Peace. :thumbsup:

[tiptoe]

65. They were looking at Lederman's stats, which had me verbalizing: "Those #s don't look right"

http://tinyurl.com/QKK23

[ret5hd]

4. So, uhhhh....how much did ya' lose?

[doublethink]

6. Nothing ..... don't bet ...... just like boxing,

:)

[H2O Man]

7. Ha!

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[doublethink]

8. ..........

:mad: :)

[sandnsea]

15. Close, but I gave it to Oscar

I thought Mayweather would win, but I don't think he did enough in the early rounds to win them. Oscar was the champion and you're supposed to have to actually TAKE that belt. Mayweather didn't do it. His father wasn't even sure Jr won.

[doublethink]

19. You must have watched the same fight I did.

What is with this 'other world perspective' we are led to believe? :whf: I couldn't believe the announcers giving the fight to Mayweather like in the 8th or 9th round. Felt like another boxing set-up. Bullshit. Peace. :)

[sandnsea]

23. 3-1 at my house

My husband gave it to Mayweather, but he watches fights with his heart and not his eyes. The other 3 of us were perplexed when the commentary started going wiggy. Especially that comment about Oscar rallying around the 6th round. Merchant's scorecard never made a bit of sense. It was a really strange fight to me.

[doublethink]

27. Shit your already married..... woo well ..... sigh .... ;) ........

We'll have to see what the media says in the next couple of days ......... like I ever trusted them .... peace. Oscar Won. :)

[H2O Man]

48. Floyd Sr and you

think a lot alike.

[gatorboy]

29. Personally, I was hoping Oscar would get the KO on Mayweather.

Mayweather's Apollo Creed impression was getting tiresome on 24/7. But I think Oscar beat some of the bragging out of him. Can't really boast about a split decision.

[doublethink]

30. Oscar Won.

Plain and simple. Peace.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. If It Was So Plain And Simple, Why The Headline ON SI Declaring Mayweather The Winner? Don't Seem

simple to me. In fact, it seems pretty simple for just about ANYONE else to say that Mayweather won, and that Oscar is now beltless.

It was fair as fair can be. It was what it was. It is over. Mayweather took it. He won fairly.

[doublethink]

34. Bullshit.

;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Actually, That's Not Bullshit. In Fact, It's On The SI Front Page Right Now! Want A Link?

It'll say 'Mayweather beast DeLahoya' or something. Pretty clear cut. Pretty 'plain and simple'

;)

[doublethink]

37. Yea and Bush beat Kerry and whats his name ....

the no convenient truth guy ..... um .... Gore. Yea right. Peace. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Uhhh Yeah Huh Huh Huh, Cause Theyz Be Likz Huh Huh Da Same Shit And Stuff, Huh Huh Huh.

Like wow! what a far off the mark totally unrelated nor effective analogy that one was! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[doublethink]

39. Well guess you'll believe anything you hear huh?

Tell me what ya think of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela? A real asshole huh? Thought so huh? ..... Well he's not .... ever watched "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." Or the follow-up documentary's to it? Okay not relevant either. Believe what you want, or your lying eyes tell you or ..........? . Oscar Won. Peace. ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Listen Dude, You Can Preach Your Conspiracy Theory All Night. The Decision Was Fair. Move On.

You'll be better for it.

:rofl:

[doublethink]

41. ........

:rofl: ..... :eyes:

[H2O Man]

47. Damn, man!

You are one funny guy! You have me laughing so hard that my sides hurt! But not as bad as Oscar's sides are hurting him this morning!

[chitty]

42. What

fight were you watching?

I had 8 people at my house watching the fight and they all said Oscar lost.

And half of them were rooting for DeLaHoya

As a matter of fact, nobody could believe how lousy the scoring was. What the hell was that one judge smoking? And the other two, 115-113. No friggin' way.

Vegas scoring.

[doublethink]

43. Bullshit ..... 98 posts ..... obviously .....

someone here on DU who is disillusioned. Or very drunk along with your friends. Oscar Won Easily. Watch it Again. Peace..... and by the way welcome to DU. :)

[chitty]

44. You need to

take your emotions out of it, step back and realize that Oscar lost.

He didn't get his ass kicked, but he lost. Period.

I haven't been impressed with Mayweather in either of his last two fights, but he did plenty enough tonight to win and that's all that counts.

[doublethink]

46. 99 posts ...... watch it again without the liquor. n.t.

[chitty]

50. What exactly

does post count have to do with eyesight and reasoning?

Again, Oscar lost.

He did not get his ass kicked, but he lost.

[doublethink]

45. Ohhh no profile ...... your house, everyone there says Oscar lost!!!

Where the fuck would that be? No-where-land .... no profile from no-where in ... no-where-ville!!!! Fuck ..... I'll take your word for it, or anything from no-where-ville!!!!! :rofl: All in fun ........... hope you enjoyed the fight. Oscar Won, kicked his Ass. ;)

ps: kicked his ass even in no-where-ville. ;)

[trumad]

49. How about me--- you think I got the creds to post here?

I went to a fight party last night at my local bar and by a unanimous majority, we all thought Mayweather won the Split decision.

I think the reason you're saying Bullshit so much is you probably played a drinking game where every time Oscar missed a punch, you had a shot of Tequila---another words, you're toasted.

Plus----looking through on the rags, ESPN, SI, and most of the boxing forums on the net, it's all Mayweather.

So keep shouting Bullshit all you want---- but remember---- at the end of the day it's "Scoreboard".

[doublethink]

51. No no no, the correct quote would be ......

"In other words, your toasted" .... and not "another words your toasted" .........

and secondly at the end of the day (as far as boxing is concerned) that would be "Scorecard" and not 'Scoreboard" ... yea you know your boxing don't ya? :eyes: ...... all the best, peace. ;)

[trumad]

52. Actually it's "you're".....

if you correct somebody, at least correct them right.

Oh---and the known euphemism is "scoreboard"....

Now go back and debate H2O man--- after all, you know so much more than him. Ha Ha

[doublethink]

53. Just seeing if you would catch on to that one ..... you're ... correct.

But noooooooooooo you're wrong on the scoreboard thingy ..... scoreboards are NOT used in professional boxing. Geesh. ;)

on edit: euphemism: A euphemism is an expression intended by the speaker to be less offensive, disturbing, or troubling to the listener than the word or phrase it replaces, or in the case of doublespeak to make it less troublesome for the speaker. -snip-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism

[trumad]

55. Oh come on---- admit it---

you're the only moran who thinks Oscar one the damn thing

[doublethink]

56. This is you isn't it?

[trumad]

57. LOL

Poor doublethink.....

Got his ass kicked on a boxing forum and is desperately pulling out all the stops.

You've lost dude...give it up.

[doublethink]

58. Oh that's bullshit too ........ how does one get his 'ass kicked' on a boxing forum?

Do tell? We simply disagree on the outcome of the fight. One judge had Oscar winning and so did Mayweather's Dad. Maytheather ran the first 5 or 6 rounds, couldn't reach Oscar with what little pitter patter punches he even attempted to throw in those rounds. Beyond the first 5 or 6 rounds it was closer, and yea Mayweather took the last few. But I thought Oscar did enough in those early rounds to win. That's how I saw it and no I'm not alone in that assessment. Was fun throwing barrages with you and some other Du'ers in here trumad. Sports is the 'toy section' of life to me. When all is said and done ..... the insults, over-the-top analogies, exaggerations, cussing, getting off topic and on and on are just my way of saying ...... come on lets take time out to laugh a little from other serious issues. Makes me smile to get some 'LOL' responses on shit like this. No harm or anything personal, I somehow think (maybe I'm wrong?) we can get a little over-the-top more-so with each other in say the sports forum or a few of the other forums here on DU than like the larger serious forums. And that's the way it should be don't ya think? I'm always thinking of ways to stretch the DU rules and see if I can get away with it in the fun forums (without getting banned) Sports = All In Fun. :)

I even saw a post by H2OMan calling someone a 'clown' on another thread concerning this fight. That made me laugh, but the Du'er from their perspective of the fight arguing with him made a lot of sense. So yea whatever. Okay I'm rambling now, gotta go, Peace Brother ..... oh and believe me when I tell someone to F off in here it holds the same meaning as when a personal friend calls me on the phone to rub it in that his fighter got the unjust decision and mine didn't.

Again, Peace brother to you and all the Du'ers in this thread. Love you guys, Oscar Won. ;)

[H2O Man]

59. True.

I called Floyd Mayweather Sr a "bum." The other person said that I call everyone who disagrees with me a "bum." That, of course, is as silly as it is untrue. I assume the person was making a joke, because it seems unlikely that in a serious discussion, one would attempt to pull that type of nonsense. Hence, I called her a "clown."

The idea that the person's perspective "made a lot of sense" is also silly. One example should do: she stated that in boxing, one must take it to the champion to win the title. This is an old half-truth. There is, very simply, no rule in any state, or by any commission, that demands one do anything different in a title fight. This isn't a matter of "opinion" -- it's a simple fact. The fighter who wins the fight is the champion. Many of the greatest fighters were not "aggressive" in the ring. In fact, aggression alone is neither a positive or negative. It has to be "effective aggressiveness" to score points. Again, not a matter of opinion; that is the standard that every boxing commission goes by.

A few other DUers know who I am, and my connection with the sport of boxing. It is not casual, and it is not limited to sitting in front of a tv, feigning insight. You must forgive them if they find others' bluffing that they know what they are talking about humorous.

[doublethink]

60. Well at least you believe it to be a 'half truth' .....

;) ...... "The idea that the person's perspective "made a lot of sense" is also silly. One example should do: she stated that in boxing, one must take it to the champion to win the title. This is an old half-truth."

Tell me how many World Boxing Champions have lost their titles in a 'draw'? I'm not questioning your authority, knowledge, integrity experience when it comes to the sport of Boxing H20 Man. But your appeal to authority in this argument is irrelevant.

Doesn't it at least psychologically in the mind of 'The Challenger' (Because the Champion Retains His Belt In Case of A Draw) mean that he ... the Challenger 'should' take it to the Champion, or take the Championship away?

Lets say I'm Champion, your Challenger, we fight 9 times. 9 times the decision is a Draw. Who's Champion? Don't I keep my belt every time? I'm Champion your not. Correct me if I'm wrong. Peace. :)

[H2O Man]

62. Please.

Obviously, a champion does not lose their title if a fight is a draw. But the fight was not a draw. Hence, that has nothing to do with the De La Hoya vs Mayweather fight.

The person in question did not say anything about a draw. She did say that a challenge has to take the title, in the context of a discussion about aggression. The rules for scoring boxing are not a matter of one person's opinion, nor are they a matter of another's authority. They are, plain and simple, the rules for scoring a fight.

The idea of what some unidentified challenger for a title might think is, by definition, what is irrelevant. We can easily identify what Floyd Mayweather did, and he won the fight. we can also look at numerous examples of other challengers who won various titles by decision, when they did not have a psychological crisis that compelled them to meet the needs of casual boxing fans who lack the knowledge of how fights are scored.

[doublethink]

64. Judging will always be subjective, and will never be perfect.

Judging a fight is done by human beings, not a computer. Therefore inherently Subjective. You are correct ... the rules for scoring boxing are not a matter of one persons opinion, nor are they a matter of authority. But Judging a fight will always be subjective and in the very nature of that, they are OPINIONS in the real world of what just took place. Because some fights are close, some see decisions differently than others.

And hey if all you want to do in here is knock casual boxing fans for expressing an 'opinion' ... I guess that's your right, but then who would there be left in this forum for you to talk to on boxing? Dammit man, why can't we all just get along? ;) Peace.

:hug: :yourock: O8) :toast: :bounce: :hippie: :party: :silly: :dunce: :hi: :loveya: :shrug: :grouphug: :pals: :hide: :applause: :patriot:

[H2O Man]

66. Well, I could

correct one error you make in your first sentence .... judges in amateur fights actually do use a small, hand-held device for counting each fighter's punches. It's not perfect, but it tends to work quite well, especially because there are three officials counting and scoring. This allows those who are less accurate/capable to be weeded out.

I am not opposed to people expressing various opinions. If some think Oscar won, that is fine. Boxing is indeed a subjective sport .... and many fun conversations include speculating who was the best in each weight class, etc ... all very subjective. What I disagreed with -- and which is simply not true -- is the idea that a fighter has to "take" the title from a champion by being aggressive. It's simply not true. The rules of each and every commission, and of every state in the US, follow rules that are clearly spelled out. It's not a rule. There isn't really any argument about that, and the few who cling to it here simply have exposed their lack of knowledge on how fights are scored. Boxing's history has numerous examples showing that.

[Awsi Dooger]

69. Yeah, but they switched to that system due to problems with subjective scoring

Notably the Roy Jones robbery in Seoul '88.

So that actually makes the point that subjective scoring can be wrong and spit out the wrong winner. Admittedly, in that case it was fraud and not incompetence, but I've seen plenty of examples of incompetence.

I still think there should be more than three judges. Far too much vulnerability for one or two strange verdicts coming out of a sample of three. That's another difference in amateur boxing, five judges instead of three. I think the pro game should switch to that, or even to seven judges. It may be impractical for small cards where you can't find five or seven qualified judges, but for major events like Mayweather/De La Hoya there would be no problem at all. It would be less dramatic announcing five or seven scorecards at the end of a fight instead of three, but for purposes of accuracy and fairness there's no doubt it would be superior. The sport has made many changes like dropping to 12 rounds. Nothing magical about three judges and only three judges.

[H2O Man]

72. Right.

Three judges isn't magic. There could be four or five.

Even with the improvements that have been made, there are still bad decisions, from time to time.

[doublethink]

70. Here's where I saw De La Hoya's "Effective Aggressiveness" ....

The first 5 or 6 rounds. And Yea yea I know a Challenger (Or Champion for that matter) does not have to be 'aggressive' to win a fight outright, "Dance like a butterfly, sting like a bee" .... Muhammad Ali dominated people like this, (along with a bunch of imitators after him), and no he need not come forward.....

Anyway here's something on the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight I didn't know till just a moment ago....

"In the end, judge Jerry Ross' decision to give the 12th round to Mayweather – the other two judges gave it to De La Hoya – was the difference between a split decision and a draw. -snip-

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=dw-fight050607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Honestly ..... I gave the 12th round to Mayweather. Oscar got the last few punches of the round in, but I thought Mayweather won the rest of the round. :silly:

And personally it was frustrating watching De La Hoya chase Mayweather most of the night and not be able to actually catch him with a really good shot or two and test his chin. Sooooo I'd rather see Mayweather and Sugar Shane Mosley in the ring next, styles make fights and that would be a fun one. I think De La Hoya will most likely stay retired ...... longer than Mayweather anyway .... ;)
Peace.

[H2O Man]

73. Shane would do better.

Oscar erred in being aggressive. He had other options, that guys like Dundee and Atlas pointed out. He fought the wrong fight. If he had moved side to side, and even backed away, Floyd might have been forced to come to him. That would Oscar using the ring to his advantage, and forcing Floyd to do something he prefers not to do.

More, Oscar could use his jab more, without getting as tired, and not being as easy to counter. Add another advantage: Oscar can stop on a dime and throw his right cross, his hook, or any combination. He has always punched with the most power doing that. The films of his fights show that.

I have heard that Freddie Roach has expressed some frustration that Oscar stopped using his jab after round 7. He's not anti-Oscar, and he's not making excuses for himself, or for anyone else. He just recognizes that was significant.

I'd love to ask Freddie why he didn't have Oscar moving away from Floyd. I have a feeling that I might get the opportunity within the next month. There is going to be a heck of a turn-out at the Hall of Fame in June, and I'll bet this fight will still be being discussed.

Duran and Whitaker are being inducted. (Can you imagine if they had fought? We'd surely be debating that one, too!)

[doublethink]

81. Let's debate this one first ......

VS


Smoking Joe Frazier (5' 11" 205 lbs) VS Iron Mike Tyson (5' 11" 210 lbs) both in their prime of course. Gawd how I'd dish out the PPV to see that one, and believe me if I ever live long enough (to see) and make enough money (to afford) a "Time Machine" I'd waste it all day long on bouts like this. :)

Greatest Heavyweight ever? ..... Muhammad Ali of course hands down against anyone in theirs and his prime in any era. And my time machine would allow Muhammad Ali to fight between the years of 1967 to 1970 too. Okay I'd have to get the 'updated new and improved Time Machine' to do that of course, but what the hey.

Anyway from what I recall of the other nights fight, Floyd seemed to be doing better the few times Oscar backed away from him? His own Jab and combinations were finding the range on Oscar I thought. My VCR wasn't working that night so I couldn't tape the fight and analyze it much. And yea De La Hoya did stop using his jab around the 7th, which I thought through the 5th or 6th round was helping him dominate the early rounds.

Okay Smoking Joe or Iron Mike when you get a chance? All I know is it more than likely wouldn't go the distance. Peace.

[H2O Man]

84. Both were very good.

Frazier could be hurt by hard punchers. Mexican heavyweight Manuel Ramos hurt him. Oscar Bonavena decked him twice in a round. And Foreman dribbled him. However, all three of them could have hurt Tyson, and Foreman would have dribbled him.

If Tyson didn't take Frazier out early, Joe would win. He was a great champion. I would love to have seen him fight Evander Holyfield; for a variety of reasons, I think that would have been a heck of a fight.

[bigwillq]

54. Didn't watch it

but I am glad Oscar lost. I hate him.

[Mojambo]

63. Boxing is a dead sport.

Long live MMA.

[H2O Man]

67. Ha!

Guess if we look at the Mayweather vs De La Hoya fight, we can see boxing is alive and well.

[Mojambo]

68. I didn't think it was compelling in the least. n/t

[H2O Man]

71. Yet

that made little difference. Very little. The fight was solid proof that boxing is doing very well, indeed.

[Mojambo]

74. If that fight is the best Boxing can do then I don't think it's doing nearly as well as you think.

I fully expect Mayweather and De La Hoya to end up on Dancing With The Stars next season.

And even if it was as great as you say (and IMHO it wasn't), they get a fight like that, what, once every 20 years?

People are pretty much done with this sport, and have been for a while.

[H2O Man]

75. Really?

Gosh. Name some of the sporting events that raised more $$$, or more media attention. Maybe them there people that paid for the fight aren't as well informed as you.

[Mojambo]

76. What a news flash! Boxing promoters can make money.

You could have competitive crocheting at a casino in Vegas and make a boat load of money. That's what happens there, people throw around money.

As for mainstream media attention, I found it luke warm and passing. It was a sporting news sidebar for the most part, particularly after the fight.

Boxing is a niche sport now, and shrinking. I know this "super fight" was supposed to bring the sport back to its former glory, and maybe it has excited devotees such as yourself, but I don't see it bringing fans from the mainstream back into the fold.

Just my impression as a mostly outsider to the sport. The true test will be over time I suppose.

[Awsi Dooger]

77. World class ignorance

The fight being held in Las Vegas had nothing to due with the Pay Per View take or total handle. It was a compelling matchup and promoted very well for months. I'll continue to insist it doesn't threaten many of the super fights I have seen in this town, in terms of anticipation leading up to the fight or the fight day itself. If you had a true mega fight with two high profile guys in their prime, like Leonard/Hearns I, it would shatter what Mayweather and De La Hoya managed on Saturday. And heaven forbid if it were two heavyweights, like a modern day Ali/Frazier meeting like March 8, 1971. That would easily quadruple what they pulled in on Saturday.

The sport is going through a cyclical lull in terms of high profile stars, particularly in the heavyweight level. That's all this is and anyone who pretends otherwise is a fool.

Stuff like MMA is trash, something that will never catch on at high level. And hysterically your own argument proves it. You say there could be competitive crocheting in Las Vegas and pull in boat loads of money. Newsflash: MMA is all but ignored in Las Vegas sportsbooks. Everyone realizes it is a pseudo sport so no one books it. There are occasional matches booked at the Venetian, stuck on the far corner on an auxiliary board so they don't get in the way of the real sports. I talked to my friend who is a sportsbook supervisor there and he says they get almost zero action on MMA. No one even cares enough to bet, and the money they do get is from a small selection of local wise guys looking for a bargain. The public at large has virtually no betting interest.

[Mojambo]

78. MMA is in its infancy, as Boxing slides into infirmity.

I fully expect one to continue to grow and the other to continue to decline.

But as I said, time will tell.

(Not quite sure why you feel the need to toss insults around in this discussion, but it doesn't really become you.)

[trumad]

79. World class ignorance just means you have no idea what you're talking about

I don't think thats an insult.

[doublethink]

82. Funny you should mention Dancing With The Stars ......

Just noticed your posts on MMA when I heard from the other room that Muhammad Ali was live in the Audience tonight watching his daughter Layla Ali dance on that program a bit ago. About the only bit of 'reality' in your posts was that coincidence though, in my opinion. In my humble opinion.

Anyway the UFC is on like what #70 .... #71? You know the 'Big UFC Championships' they have every couple of months where it's usually Lidel, Randy Courter, uhhh Ortiz or a handful of others against like each other, over and over and over and over again. :rofl: Dammit man that gets old. And those guys are already getting old in their own sport. Yea I know about the other 'reality program' on Spike TV ..... uh 'The Ultimate Fighter season 6' or something. And that seems to be the only place this 'sport' is getting any new talent unless they are out stealing guys from Pride Fighting. And the re-runs on the sports channels are already getting old too. Hey I have nothing against the brawling and would enjoy it more IF THERE WERE MORE COMPETITORS. But how in the hell in the long run will MMA, UFC, Pride Fighting ever expand their fighter base beyond anything similar to the 'Fake Pro Wrestling Federations' is beyond me?

Boxing on the other hand will be EVERYWHERE on this planet as long as a kid is trying to get out of the ghetto, barrio, hood, streets, slums, poverty ..... in a dream to make a better life for himself or his family. A sad reality in a way, but no shortage of talent.

Boxing always goes through it's up and down times, but it's not going anywhere and is here to stay in all it's imperfections.

Only time will tell on MMA. I hope it survives. Just a few thoughts. Peace.

[TroubleMan]

80. Not true.....and I'm a huge MMA fan.

Boxing isn't going anywhere. There's room for boxing and MMA. I think at one point, they'll be on equal status, but both are great sports, that will be around for a long time.

[TSIAS]

83. LOL!

Are you saying that HBO was biased AGAINST De La Hoya. I'm not sure if there were any two big Oscar homers like Jim Lampley and George Foreman. When I think of HBO boxing, I can't think of anyone outside of Roy Jones who I more associate with their network. DLH's fought almost every fight on HBO or HBO Pay-Per-View.

If anything, I thought HBO was generous in favor of DLH and exaggerated the impact of his aggression.