Mark McGwire hired as hitting coach for St. Louis.

[madinmaryland]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/10/26/larussa.mcgwire.ap/index.html

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Mark McGwire is back in baseball, reunited with Tony La Russa as the St. Louis Cardinals' hitting coach.

La Russa agreed to return for a 15th year as manager Monday with a one-year contract, the first time he hasn't had a multiyear deal with the team. All of his coaches will return except for Hal McRae, who will be replaced by the former star.

"Mark is passionate about the game, passionate about the Cardinals," chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. said. "Tony thinks he'll be a great coach, and I think he's got a lot to offer."

McGwire was not at the news conference at Busch Stadium, but La Russa and general manager John Mozeliak said there will be no effort to shield McGwire from questions about steroids. The team anticipated a telephone news conference with McGwire.

"By no means is he trying to hide, and by no means are we trying to hide him," Mozeliak said.

..snip

RULE #1 - Andro for everyone!

:rofl:

[DaveinMD]

1. its fitting

LaRussa's Oakland teams were basically the start of all this crap. It continued in St. Louis.

[El Supremo]

2. And Jose Canseco has been hired as the Cardinals trainer.

I can't believe that that POS is replacing one of my heroes:

[madinmaryland]

3. Remember when Kansas City had one of the most consistent organizations

during the 70's and 80's.

$ad to $ee what $elig and $teinbrener have to done to the game. DI$GRACEFUL as a matter of fact.

[DaveinMD]

9. why

can Minnesota complete year after year, but not KC?

[El Supremo]

11. Ewing Kauffman died.

That's why.

Now go stuff it!

[DaveinMD]

13. Twins owner died too

and they keep competing. And Kauffman died a long time ago. KC sucks because they are mismanaged, unlike the Twins.

[madinmaryland]

14. I can think of $200 million plus reasons a year.

Douche!

[DaveinMD]

15. in what way

are the Twins $200 million a year better than the Royals. Or the Pirates for that matter.

But the name calling makes your point so much more lucid.

[madinmaryland]

16. $ad, just very $ad what ba$eball has become.

Owned by $elig and $teinbrenner.

$ad, just very $ad. A complete ruination of America'$ game.

[DaveinMD]

17. and yet

you still can't answer the question. If it was just about money, the Mets would be in the world series and the Yankees would have been the last 6 years when they weren't.

[Capt. America]

19. Rec x 100 !

[Captain Hilts]

4. McGwire actually was a good hitter. 'Roids won't help that. nt

[wilt the stilt]

5. yeah he was a great hitter

.263 batting average and 1596 strikeouts in 7660 plate appearances. He struck out every 5 AB's.

how does that compare to Joe Dimaggio's 369 strikeouts to 361 homers.

He sucked as a hitter.

[JonLP24]

6. Not to defend Mark McGwire

but wouldn't comparing 99% of batters to Joe DiMaggio be a little unfair?

BTW - Congrats to 900 posts :toast:

[trumad]

8. snarf

[hughee99]

10. Of course that stat proves he sucked as a hitter...

Just ask Reggie Jackson, Mike Schmidt, Willie Stargell, Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, and Mickey Mantle. They all struck out at a similar rate. Bums, all of em'. :sarcasm:

[wilt the stilt]

18. and has any of those retired players

ever hired as hitting coaches. Great hitters usually hit for average and some power. his lifetime average was .263. Most really good hitters exercise bat control ala rod carew. McGuire was an average hitter at best. Don't you think that you should at least be close to a .300 hitter to be considered a great hitter?

[hughee99]

20. "He sucked as a hitter" were your words...

not "he's an average hitter at best" and you backed it up with a stat that's essentially meaningless in the discussion (K's per AB). I don't think he's going to be a good batting coach. At best, he might be useful to help some younger players develop power, but I wouldn't want him fucking with everyone's swing.

There are a lot of good arguments as to why McGwire won't make a good hitting coach, you just picked a bad one in your first post.

[wilt the stilt]

21. There was a time when SO's

were an embarrassment. McGwire was a one dimensional hitter Homer or nothing.

[hughee99]

22. Are you sure that's the case?

given the importance being placed on OBP, Slugging and OPS these days by some teams (successful teams), are you sure that McGwire is a one dimensional hitter? Rob Deer was a home run or nothing. It seemed to be a rare sight to see him on base, as after his at bat, he'd be in the dugout one way or another. That wasn't really the case with McGwire, though.

McGwire had a higher career OBP and SLG% than A-ROD, Frank Robinson, and Willie Mays, and a higher career OPS than Mickey Mantle, even though his batting average was at least 20 points lower than any of them. When McGwire went to the plate, he still had an almost 4 in 10 chance of reaching base. Again, I'm not saying he's a great hitter, but I think you're underrating him a good bit.

[wilt the stilt]

23. absolutely true

Read any information about the earlier times and I will be vindicated. Are you actually comparing Willie Mays to McGwire. don't make me laugh. Willie was the most dominant player of his era. Mcgwire was hardly the most dominant player of his era. Sometimes statistics are inaccurate. Willie was better than hank aarn and anyone who grew up then knows it. willie-the only player to hit over 50 homers 10 years apart.

[hughee99]

24. But McGwire didn't play in Willie's era, so how do you compare them

if not for stats? 50 HR's 10 years apart is impressive, but it's not what made Mays a great player. If he had never hit more than 49 home runs in a season, he'd still be a great player. (BTW, McGwire did hit 49 HR's in a season 10 years apart, is that one missing HR in 1987 really the difference between Mays and McGwire?) McGwire wasn't a great average hitter, but he was a great power hitter, and he did have a good ability to get on base (and more importantly, NOT make an out). There used to be a stigma about striking out, but pitchers used to be expected to pitch complete games as well. The game has changed, and the players have adapted to do those things that are now of deemed to be a "greater value". Clearly, McGwire (a "1 tool" player) isn't the same caliber of player as Mays (a "5 tool" player) but the number of times he struck out is NOT proof that he was not a good hitter. IMHO, despite his strikeouts, he provided far more value than you are giving him credit for. Statistics are NEVER inaccurate, but how they are used to draw conclusions about a player often is. I think you're using McGwire's K totals to draw inaccurate conclusions about the value he provided as a hitter.

[wilt the stilt]

27. Mays was the only one

to hit 50 a decade apart and he wasn't using steroids. Like I said Willie is considered by many to be the greatest to ever play. McGwire has never been put into that company. Willie still hit more homers in his career and hit in a park that was harder to hit homers in(fences were all the way out). He missed 2 years to the service. If he played in Atlanta or Milwaukee like aaron he would have had 800 homers. Back to pitching, Koufax was striking out Dodgers in BP at spring training in his fifties and the Dodgers were just shaking their heads and couldn't believe how he threw.

Furthermore, thnk of all the blazing fastball lefthanders(koufax, Sam McDowell, Steve Carlton, Herb Score and many more). I can only think of a couple of blazing lefthanders today.

I have always maintained that baseball peaked in the sixties. It had the convergence of all the factors at that time.

Baseball got all the athletes as those players who played at that time could make the best living in baseball. It was the most popular game and everyone grew up playing it. football was just in it's infancy as was basketball.
African Ameicans, latin, cuban and white players were all playing.

Ted`Williams summed it up this way in comparing players of the fifties and sixties to the players in the nineties.

When we reached the majors we had played 10,000 hours of baseball as opposed to today's players who played 3,000 hours of baseball

[Ter]

32. Bullshit

His ability to draw a walk was amazing. Dave Kingman was one dimensional. Mac was not.

[Ter]

31. You obviously know little about baseball if you go by batting average

On Base Percentage is the real stat. If a player hits .280 and has an OBP of .400, he's a better player than someone who hits .340 with an OBP of .380. Mac knew how to take a walk, and hit home runs more frequently than anyone else. Ever (even Ruth).

[madinmaryland]

34. A Roid Rager just like the rest of them...

*

You a Barroid Bonds fan also?

[Ter]

37. I wouldn't call myself a "fan"

But Bonds' four year span was the best anyone alive has ever seen. Scream steroids all you want, but no one else on the juice could match that streak from 37 to 40 no less. He will make the Hall.

[madinmaryland]

38. Dude. It was all steroids. You know damn well he was on the juice.

"IF" he makes the hall, it will be with an ASTERISK.

[wilt the stilt]

40. so you are`saying a walk is as good as a hit

ask Pete rose that. how often do you drive in a run by a walk. Here's a qustion for you. Who was a better ball player Pete Rose or Mark McGwire? Think about that one for awhile

[wilt the stilt]

41. mcGwire only had

1414 RBI's 66th on the list. For 538 homers that is not a whole lot of RBI's. Also who was better George Brett or Mark McGwire and Brett had more RBI's.

[Captain Hilts]

26. Perhaps, more. DiMaggio and Williams did not swing for the seats. Line drive hitters.

Same for Frank Howard, who was cursed with an absurdly big strike zone and lousy hitters batting ahead and behind him.

[wilt the stilt]

28. Dimaggio and Williams

were considered power hitters and even the great Ted struck out 800 times. The fact that dimaggio only struck out one to one is possibly his greatest record.


Oh yeah, one more the 56 game hitting streak will never broken along with the UCLA`88 game win streak

Two books that you should read
Summer of '49
Oct' 64

David halberstam

[Captain Hilts]

42. I've read 'em both!

[wilt the stilt]

44. great books but back to McGwire

take away the steroid years and he is not a HOF. He would have ended up with 400-450 hr's 1300 RBI's and a .260 average. Those are not HOF stats. On the other hand Bonds is a HOF without the juice.

[Captain Hilts]

25. For a slugger, McGwire's numbers are pretty good. nt

[wilt the stilt]

29. take away his last two seasons

of 70 and 65 homers and he has 448 homers. As a matter of fact his production had dropped way off to about 32 homers a season until steroids. the he hit a bundle and then dropped off again to about 32 a season. talk about inflated numbers. way overrated

[Ter]

33. You are forgetting his minimal at-bats

His last year he had injuries and had a mere 299 at-bats. That's on pace for about 65 HRs in a full year. He never lost his ability to hit HRs. Here's a fact: A-Rod and Pujols are great HR hitters. Well, Mac averaged 10.6 HR per at-bat over his ENTIRE CAREER. Take A-Rod or Pujols' best HR seasons. Their best doesn't even hit 10.6! That stat is amazing!

[Ter]

30. His at bats to HR ratio is off the charts

In fact, it is the best in ML history.

[wilt the stilt]

35. okay let's look at his numbers year by year

87-49
88-32
89-33
90-39
91-22
92-42
93-9-injured
94-9 injured strike season
95-39
steroids kick in
96-52
97-58
98-70
99-65
00-32

so before the steroids kicked in he had 277 homers with 3659 AB which is 1 every 13 ab which is behind Ruth and only slightly better than Kiner
steroid HR guy and a lousy BA. Aaron and Mays both had career BA's over 300. real stars

[Ter]

36. 1 every 13 is better than A-Rod, Pujols, Mantle, or even Hank Aaron

In fact, one in every 13 is elite. Only a handful have been better.

[wilt the stilt]

39. are you saying that McGwire was better

than Aaron or Mantle. Mantle won a triple crown. As far as knowing a lot about baseball I was the kid who knew every fact and watched every World Series from 1960-2008. I watched every Saturday game of he week. My dad played service baseball(service baseball meant you played with the major leaguers and entertained the troops) during world war 2 against the major leaguers. He was too thin to make it but he was from St. Louis and was just a few years ahead of Berra and Garagiola. Because my dad knew major leaguers I was in the polo grounds on Stan Musial night in 1963 as a guest of the cardinals went to the clubhouse and have a signed baseball from Stan Musial to me and my brother. I also have 16 signed baseballs from the major league teams from the late forties including the Brooklyn Dodgers and the 3 baseballs from the Yankees with all the hall of famers signing them.

I have gone to Ebbets field, Polo grounds, Yankee Stadium, Shea Stadium,Wrigley field, Fenway Park,Candlestick, Oakland and Atlanta. I have been to World series games, I saw Luis Tiant's first game in the major leagues and stole home plate from the bullpen at the`original Yankee stadium in 1965. I saw Willie, Hank, Duke, Jackie Robinson, `Mickey Mantle, Roberto Clemente, Al Kaline, Juan Marichal and all the others including Pete Rose and the great Red Machine. I saw Jim Bunning's perfect game and most of the current players. When I was young I would see twenty games a year. Two years ago I took my son (flew from ATL) and went to 3 straight games at Yankee Stadium.

Now you match that kind of history and I do think Bonds belongs in the hall.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

7. Will Dave Duncan remain as pitching coach?

Or will he be replaced by Roger Clemens?:evilgrin:

:hide:

Uhh, never mind: "All of his coaches will return except for Hal McRae"

[El Supremo]

12. +10!

[GOPisEvil]

43. You do know that he's been giving private hitting instruction for years now, right?

Several guys, including current Cardinals swear by the guy's teaching.

But, hey, it's an easy joke, so let's just go there.

I will be the first to admit the guy has a lot to stand up and answer for, but apparently he knows his stuff and is an effective instructor.

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