Why does a fundie fear everything?

[Bigmack]

My first post on the Religion forum... I'm a Jesuit-educated atheist and really don't have much time to discuss mythology and the occult, but I'm looking for perspective from some believers.

My sister-in-law is a fundie not an obnoxious fundie but nevertheless....

She believes in the power of prayer and that god has a Plan, and takes a hand in everyday living.

Yet, she is afraid of everything.

She drives on the freeway, but is afraid to ride a bicycle because she could fall and be badly injured or killed. She's afraid to ride in a boat because it might sink. Afraid to fly because she might crash. Afraid to climb a ladder. Germs... cancer.... Etc, etc, etc...

She's raising her grandkids to be afraid of everything, too. The kids can't climb on the rocks because they might get hurt/die.

Now... my question.

How can a person who believes ardently that there is a Plan be so afraid?

I'm not talking about tempting fate.. or god... by bungie-jumping or something crazy, just everyday risks.

It seems to me that if god has this magic Plan, what we do or don't do has little to do with our ultimate demise.

Belief doesn't seem to be helping her deal with her fears.

Any insights?

[arcane1]

1. fear of death = #1 motive behind religion

[sui generis]

4. isn't that odd

if you really believe in the afterlife why would being dead matter?

[arcane1]

6. odd indeed...

perhaps her faith isn't as strong as she proclaims it is :shrug:

[Warpy]

7. They all know they're sanctimonious frauds deep down

and it's the confrontation with the nasty, naked Santa Claus with the green eyeshade and the big book of all their sins with everybody they know watching and listening that they fear.

Plus, they all doubt when they wake up at 3 AM.

[Union Thug]

11. I agree and will add that...

to overcome that doubt they must congregate with scores of other believers to reinforce their views. Non-believers are a threat to their reality framework, and because of this they either run away to the congregation, attack them for their 'godlessness' or try to convert them.

The greatest fear is that atheists have been right all along, and that there is a very real possibility that their lives have been wasted pursuing the accolades of a non-existent God.

[Realityhack]

30. I think the even bigger fear is...

that the atheists are right and they have to face their fears/the world without god. Even face that they will one day die.

[libhill]

26. Bingo -

all religions are nothing more than an effort to construct an afterlife which may, or may not, exist.

[Wanet]

2. Jesus' teachings

The ones that scholars believe might be authentically his, are all about trusting God completely to take care of us: food, clothing, health, housing. That's not really about God having a plan, more like the way little children feel about their parents' care. Children don't need to worry about the next PBJ sandwich -- they know it will appear when they need it. This understanding of life is the opposite of worry.

[sui generis]

5. very Tao

be where you are. Things are what they are. You are exactly where you need to be right now.

Same kind of release of fate and fatalism and expectation and other human micro-plans and expectations that leave us frustrated when unfulfilled.

[mikeyj84]

20. Very Tao

It is said " that a mans fate is a mans fate, life is just a butterflies dream, and death is but an illusion" - Japanese Proverb

[Why Syzygy]

28. Can we start something on DU about Tao?

I have just gotten a taste of this, for the first time presented in a way I can understand it, and am intoxified by Tao. Which is a very middle path, you know.

[Evoman]

21. Trusting god....

there are literally millions of people who are trusting god to feed them, shelter them, and take care of them. Unfortunately, they die of starvation and exposure anyways. If thats what Jesus is teaching, then he was more far out than I thought.

[atreides1]

3. In Reality

The plan that God has for each of us can only work if we give our lives to him! So it seems that your sister-in-law hasn't given all herself to God, and knowing this she's afraid of doing anything
that might tempt fate.

[Gerardo]

8. Fearful people

I've often gotten the impression that Christianity does not enable people to fully engage with life, actually just the opposite. To them the world is a fearful place...an odd point of view if they actually believe in a loving and protecting god.

On the other hand, I believe strongly that the phrase "God works in mysterious ways" is another way of saying that this God is a God of chaos. What else could it mean?

[varkam]

10. Welcome to DU, Gerardo!

:toast:

[sui generis]

9. Fear is also a habit

As you pointed out it is instilled by repetition.

The funniest thing to me is how far people will go to avoid fear of pain; adults who pass out at a drop of blood or a shot of antibiotics, who will do almost anything to avoid a bruise.

My pet theory which has nothing to do with reality: that person already has hair trigger high anxiety body chemistry; and the flip side is they get addicted to their own surge of adrenaline and elevated heart rate and sense of purpose when they're skeert.

They're like coke-heads; except that there's cocaine everywhere; all they have to do is profess fear of something and assume the crash position.

Well, I suppose that was mean, real anxiety disorders notwithstanding, but some people really are over the top.

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. I think that's a really interesting theory

I was raised fundie, and I was afraid every day of my life until I left the church. Whenever I doubt my beliefs, I remind myself of the freedom from constant fear that followed that decision.

I also have an anxiety disorder, and a handful of phobias; up until a few years ago, I was one of those people who seriously would have rather risked death than to go to a doctor or get a shot. (I went through a specific desensitization therapy for that phobia, and thankfully I seem to have kicked it.)

So I've often wondered what the relationship was between my feelings of fear as a child/young adult fundie and my faith. Was I afraid all of the time because I was anxiety prone? Was it because fundamentalism fed my pre-existing anxiety? Or did I cling to the faith precisely because of that adrenaline response?

You're right about the addiction component to anxiety, except that it's an addiction to avoidance of the feared object. That was how my therapist described it to me. It starts small, the body responds with the fight-or-flight adrenaline, you choose "flee" and you feel intense relief. The next time, the adrenaline response is bigger, so you flee more urgently in order to get that feeling of relief. Pretty soon you're locked into this response because your body has it memorized, and no matter what your mind tries to tell it, it's going for that rush of relief.

At any rate, I believe there is a definite connection between mental disorders and fanaticism.

[sui generis]

16. hadn't thought about it from that perspective

pursuing "relief"

Well for what it's worth I still have a weird frisson of anxiety going to a mall . . . real "agora"phobia. ;)

taking off now - have a great weekend!

-sui

[Evoman]

12. Take a wrong step and your loving, kind god will throw you in a boiling

lake of fire. Associate with atheists, and you will be tortured for all existence. Make one wrong move, and demons will skin you and rub salt in your wounds for eternity.

I'd be pretty damn scared too if I believed in that bullshit. Fortunately, I don't. Being fully aware of my meat puppet status, I can be cautious (I don't want to die) but I am aware that this is all I get, so I better have a good run.

Evoman

[heidler1]

15. Job supposedly believed in God in spite of being punished severely

by God, Job must of been an idiot. Perhaps this too was a blessing in this God's eyes. A very very mysterious way of showing appreciation for Jobs belief. So called Heaven might end up being a torture chamber.

[Evoman]

18. Believing in god wasn't Jobs mistake

believing in a loving god is where he went wrong.

[saltpoint]

14. Cuz their mama don't dance and their daddy don't rock'n'roll.

It's a Loggins & Messina Friday afternoon at my house, folks, and that's my explanation for fundie uberfear.

I'm not sure if all fundies are as fearful as some. I think some are control freaks turned on to very high frequency, and wish to assert authoritarian control over others' reading habits, school curricula, and genitalia.

Some of them can't control their OWN genitalia but they want to control everyone else's.

But many do seem unnaturally fearful. They don't seem to do a lot of critical thinking, and in its absence, I guess fear wells up in them any time something overwhelming or controversial rears its head.

[Sam1]

17. maybe the fear came before the belief and it is an attempt

to deal with the fear. Although some fundimentialists tend, in my view, to assign to much power to the evil one.

[smirkymonkey]

25. That's what I tend to think. Abnormally fearful people gravitate

toward extremist religions (or other institutions that promise absolutes.) They cannot tolerate mystery or shades of gray. They need the structure, however oppressive, of a highly organized, rule-based institution. Something that tells them what to do every step of the way.

Some fearful people turn to drugs, alcohol or other addictive behaviors. Some turn to fundamentalism. I'm not sure which is worse.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. That's my take on it, too

They're control freaks.

[Igel]

19. Many don't. Some do.

Bad generalization. Fundies are fundies for many different reasons.

A fundie roommate of mine would routinely go hunting in green camo. He kept black powder in his bedroom. He was fairly fearless. Another used his grandfather's skis, the kind where if you fall there's no quick release; then again, he liked rock climbing, and wilderness backpacking, even during hunting season.

Most were like most other people. The ones I've found most fearful are college faculty. We find what we look for, and make generalizations based on our findings.

[hyphenate]

22. From my own experience

I can give you my take on why fundies are afraid.

Can you believe changing your entire way of thinking to believe in the fundie god? If you were involved in another religion previous to the fundamentalism, you know that you had to "disbelieve" many things in order to accept a "god" that is vengeful and contrary. You had to acknolwedge that much of your previous knowledge is wrong, and give it all up for a stake in the religion of fundamentalism.

Because of this, many people have to take a gigantic leap of faith in accepting the fundie god. And that's what they are afraid of: they are afraid that they are wrong. They are afraid that making that leap was wrong, and that becoming fundies was wrong, and that perhaps all the years they practiced their horrendous views were ill-spent.

If they find out that they were wrong, they realize that their intolerance, their supposed "favored nation" status, their bigotry, their arrogance and their overall narcissistic existence is all false. They find out that the entire meaning of "life" is wrong, and that they are only going to rot in the ground like the rest of us.

[The Straight Story]

23. I'm with ya brother. Christian myself and have seen this - my take:

It all boils down to faith. Simple as that.

Even some in the bible had times of lacking faith.

People feel god will save their souls, and hear their prayers (and act on them according to his will) - but they often don't believe that god really is standing by them waiting to be their personal genie on this earth but they want to believe it.

So when they see their kids climbing something natural instinct takes over and they worry; and then too, they may feel god will ignore them and not help them if they are doing stupid things - this boils down to control all you can around you and do your best and call on god only after you have done all you can yourself.

I think too that deep down many people know what I have said for some time: the human definition of god does not make god what we want him to be. He has limitations (which I can go into more detail of) and to me those limitations are the beauty of it all (ie, one does not understand how much god loves one until they realize he is not all powerful, though relative to us he is).

If we don't see god as being made in the image we have created of him then we start to realize that while his hand can be in things day to day it probably won't be directlt. That does not mean one cannot then rely on guardian angels. And angels just ain't god - nothing against them personally by me of course :) but angels have fallen, heck they might somewhat like us humans and get lazy on the job (and even if a person does not say this it is probably in the back of their mind).

Slowly we realize- uhhh, this ain't heaven. Heaven is where we will be surrounded by god and in his domain, there we can be safe from worry etc. There is a pretty clear distinction between heaven and earth (for a reason). Even if one takes it that earth will someday be heaven, when god sets up shop here, it should be noted that is a future event. So god is not fully here now.

People have doubts, but are afraid to admit them. I think that comes from fear and ignorance (and I am not slamming anyone of any faith, we all are afraid and ignorant on some things, but I am discussing this thing and not the others).

They fear god might not see them as worthy to protect, or want to punish them, etc and so on. All the while putting themselves at the center of the universe. To wit: 'if god let's little timmy fall and get hurt maybe he is punishing ME' - without thinking about little timmy and how it would affect him (I call it the 'Job' syndrome, where they totally don't get the whole Job story and transfer it to themselves in a literal way).

Once again it comes to lack of faith. And that is predicated by two things - lack of knowledge and a lack of desire to be the humans god created us to be (free to make dumb choices and have things we don't like happen to us, then to blame god - though blame might be a bad term, chastise perhaps..)

[Finder]

24. Fear is natural and all healthy humans experience fear to some extent...

Religion need only help to alleviate some of those things human fear. Fear of death and fear of being alone are the primary fears most religions focus on.

[Ready4Change]

27. To get to the other side?

Sorry, I was thinking the original question sounded like the start of a joke.

But then, darnit if my answer didn't make a sort of sense. Crap.

[Why Syzygy]

29. I certainly can't

explain it. I have relatives the same way. Jesus is going to rapture them right out of their clothes and rolexes, yet, what the kid wears to Sunday School is more important that the feelings of the kid. No, I can't reconcile it.

Lock your doors! Put bars on the windows. But the devil might get you at any time.

Oh wait. Trained on this. It does make sense. The fundies I know are one and all control freaks.
They MIGHT can control the bicycle rides. They cannot control the blazing planet.
Loss of control. A spooky thing ............ unless THEY control Gawd and have his whole deal all figured out.
Mark of a fundie. Makes perfect sense.

ps . read some of the posts.. My dad was the most faithful to Jesus you will ever meet. His reward. A devastating bout of cancer, puking buckets of blood and eating through a stomach tube, til his demise at 65. He accepted it with honor. But giving your life to Jesus does not prolong life. As exhibited.