The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - are these the end times?

[Bucky]

War (the Red Horse);

Despite Mr Bush's best efforts, there is not a real threat of global war at this time. The major players are either cooperating with each other or chuckling down their sleeves at us. The usual troubles in the MidEast are no worse than the normal state of affairs and a good deal more stable on most fronts than they have been frequently in the past. The only real eyesore there is Iraq, which was an utterly optional war and which shows every sign of being an isolated case. In fact, the seeds of a stable (but probably divided) Iraq are already in place. Their chaos is exceptional, not contagious. Even Israel and Hezbollah can't maintain their boners for longer than a couple of months. The next phase of their war will be fought over who can build the most houses for the people they fought around.

Revelations talks about world-wide war, but the big guys (China, Iran, Russia, Nato) are not in geostrategic conflict -- the prospect is actually for increasing cooperation among the great powers. Once America has an adult in the White House again, we'll be on that same team too. The second string powers of India and Pakistan have a serious beef, obviously, but there too their prevailing track is toward negotiation and cautious suppressing by each side of their own homegrown extremists. Much as I loathe post-Kirk Star Trek shows, their vision of a mostly peaceful earth a century from now is a pretty safe bet.

Famine (the Black Horse);

World food production is up all around the world. The only places where famine is a trouble is the corners of the earth where severe overpopulation is forcing the crisis. That's bad news, but essentially isolated in nature and the result of a lack of death, not the victory of death over human civilization.

Pestilence (the Pale Horse);

The major epidemic diseases of the past are known, licked, and/or isolated. New and improved treatments for today's killers like cancer, aids, and heart disease emerge every year -- and really, isn't heart disease as cause of death reallly just nature's last gasp complaint of "come on, people, you gotta die of something eventually!"

and Death (the White Horse);

The world population is growing (to the point now of growing too much), people are overall healthier than they've ever been in world history, and they live longer than they have in the past. In fact, the scientific victory over the major population controls of human history are main reason we have overpopulation today.

Next time you hear some worried fundy quivering about Jesus & the Antichrist coming back to duke it out, take a moment to reminde them, gently, that they're being silly asses and that someone is getting rich trying to scare them with misleading facts. A sane, sustainable, and cautious peace is not just attainable, but probably a historial inevitability (assuming monkeyface and his PNAC choir don't do something stoopid in their last two years of wallowing in the pork barrel). None of the four Horsemen represents a world-changing

The only downside to all this is that, with the Rapture not happening well beyond the foreseeable future, that awesome Beemer my fundy neighbor drives will never be mine.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. most other large countries' leaders are realists.

only those in charge of the US are not.

[believerinchrist]

2. I think you've gotten your colors mixed up--the pale horse is death.

I want to give a different perspective on the white horse which is the first to be released. Revelation 6:2 says, "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." In the Bible, white represents righteousness (which is freedom from sin--or unbelief). Proverbs 12:28 says, "In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death." This white horse represents the power of righteousness released in the human race which will bring the return of Christ. Those who strive after this righteousness will conquer the force of evil in this world, and the ones to be conquerored are not their fellow human beings, but the entities that power the force of evil in this world.

Concerning the Rapture, tell me, does a commander in the middle of a war, remove his/her troops from the battlefield? Once believers in Christ realize that we are called to fight the fight of faith (in our prayer closets and through our words of blessings to our fellow human beings), then we will see a huge change in this world. God needs these believers to stand strong against the force of evil that brings destruction throughout our world and to stand on the power of His love that was manifested in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Rapture doctrine is nonsense and selfish--I want everyone to be set free from any destruction in his/her life; I don't want anyone to spend eternity separated from God. God needs us to get our eyes off ourselves and onto the need of everyone to understand the love God has for each and every one of us.

Let me say this loud and clear: GOD LOVES EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING IN THIS WORLD, AND NO MATTER HOW HARD THE FORCE OF EVIL FIGHTS AGAINST THIS UNDERSTANDING, GOD'S LOVE WILL PREVAIL!

[Bucky]

3. I looked it up; you're right. Yet many sources label 4th horse as Death

It's weird, since part of it says the Four Horsemen are "War, Pestilence, Famine, and Death" then go on to give the colors of the horses & their explanations, representing the first three as I did. So the Four Horsemen includes Death, but the remaining 4th Horse is not Death, but the White Horse of Faith. I'm so confused. Stoopid Bible!

on edit: Wiki says the White Horseman represents the Antichrist and a "false peace" and there is no "pestilence" horse. What's that about?
So now it goes...

War = Red
False peace = White
Famine = Black
Sickness & death = Pale (formally named "Death" while hte other three weren't given names, only iconic emblems)

Here's a cool pic of them...



oops, wrong four

[believerinchrist]

4. Again, white stands for righteousness,

such as the white robes of righteousness. So many people don't understand the underlying theme of Revelation--all they see is the beast, the mark of the beast, Armageddon, the lake of fire, etc. But woven through the pages of this book is the power to overcome the evil one and his forces through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the putting on of righteousness (freedom from sin, which is nothing more than unbelief). When we fully understand what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross(and it had nothing to do with establishing a religion)and the power of the love of God, then we will start to understand how to overcome evil. God loves every one of us and His love has not and will not fail--the only reason people don't experience His love is because of the evil in this world. It's hard to believe in the God who is love when people are suffering and dying all around us. Revelation talks about that warfare between good and evil; on the surface it looks like evil prevails (if any human being spends eternity apart from God, then evil has prevailed). But underneath the surface is a different story; listen to Revelation 15:2-4:


And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb , saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints (or nations).

Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.


God's judgment is simply sifting through a person's life and clearly classifying the good (from God) and the evil (from the evil one). Once that process is done, the evil is cast into the fire of God to be forever burned up, and the good is established for all eternity. Every human being will be able to understand truth before God and that truth will set everyone free. And the foundation of truth is the power of the love of God. Once the human race taps into that love, the gates of hell will not prevail against any of us.

[SPKrazy]

5. That's A Very Positive Read

I've often heard that Revelations is really a hopeful text

as often as I've read it (not often at all) I find it full of confusing images and very negative for people who aren't believers.

As someone who is a believer in God, a liberal, a Christian (and a very liberal one at that), I would be interested in any books you have read regarding Revelations or just as to where you have come up with your interpretations as they are much more pleasant than the usual suspects, the Rapturists.

[believerinchrist]

6. No books but the Bible.

As the mother of seven children, I was privileged to spend over twenty years at home where I had time to search the Bible for answers to my questions. I told God a long time ago that I didn't want to get my understanding from other people, but from Him, and that I wanted to apply what I learned from Him to my life. (I realized a long time ago that my words are only worth what my life shows.) What I have learned over the years is quite different from what is preached in many churches, yet it makes so much sense to me.

The basis of what I understand is God is love and His love will prevail. There is no way I can know what is in the heart of any other person, so my goal is to not judge anyone, but to pray that God's love will become a reality in everyone's life.

I also don't want to die and go to heaven--I want Christ to come back to earth. So many people believe that the earth and/or non-believers are going to be destroyed when Christ returns. NO,no,no! The kingdom of evil (Satan and his forces) which has held the human race in bondage to darkness, destruction, and death--it is what will be destroyed. There will be a new heaven and earth; there will be no more evil. God is good and His goodness will be all that is present. I believe that every human being will spend eternity with God through the power of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[sakabatou]

7. There's a clip out there of "Robot Chicken"

doing a fake-commercial for "My Little Apocalypse Pony."

[Vidar]

8. Thanks for the upbeat outlook.