I Recently Read An Article In Newsweek (and I can't find it online)

[SPKrazy]

about Billy Graham in his old age

I've never really thought I liked, or even had much respect for Billy Graham.

In the article he was interviewed over a period of months.

some of the things he said surprised me.

He doesn't like to talk about politics

he says that he can't say who will or won't be in heaven (regardless of culture or beliefs, or I assume non beliefs)

anyway, I was wondering if anyone else read it. It was in the August 14 edition.

If you've read it, or have thoughts on Billy Graham in general I'm curious.

I went into reading the article with the idea that he was just another right wing fundie

I finished the article thinking he may have been at one time, but that he has evolved to some extent to a much more egalitarian view, more moderate at least. (not liberal I don't think)

It also talked about his son who is very active in politics and is a very far right fundie

[Whoa_Nelly]

1. You mean this article?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14204483/

Pilgrim's Progress
In the twilight, Billy Graham shares what he's learned in reflecting on politics and Scripture, old age and death, mysteries and moderation. A NEWSWEEK exclusive.

[demosincebirth]

2. I also read the article and it seems...

to me that he has evolved from from a fundamentalist christian to more to the left of his original beliefs. He even say that the bible doesn't have to be read literally. Now thats a change.

I guess the closer you get to death, the more enlightened you become.

[SPKrazy]

10. "The Closer To Death"

the more enlightened you become

is that always true?

I've met older people who were very "spiritual" IMO, you could see the peace in their eyes and they were amazingly wise and unperterbed by the world.

I've also seen older people that were not at peace, didn't seem particularly wise, and were instead perterbed by the world.

I think that Erik Erikson and his 8 stages of development over a lifetime had it right about stages people go through and need to resolve to have some peace over that stage.

Integrity vs. Despair is the old age one. After reading the article, I'd say I would have to guess that old Billy is finding integrity in his life.

Now, who knows what is in Billy's heart, but it's a nice thought to me to think that a firebrand Baptist like Graham seems to be more spiritual than dogmatic at this stage of the game.

[demosincebirth]

11. Maybe I should have said:

the closer "some" get to death the more enlightened they become.

I have known some who have been crotchety and angry all of there lives and never have changed...even on their deathbed. It's like they were born like that and were never were able have "a moment of clarity" or to find the courage or will power change their lives. I feel for them.

I have always liked Billy (even though I didn't agree with him on everything) because he never put himself in with the likes of Falwell, Robertson and those TV evangelists with those bulging bank accounts, fancy cars and multi-million dollar mansions.

[SPKrazy]

4. That's It, Thanks

I couldn't find it, was it in the archives?

anyway, any thoughts on the article?

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. I just Googled Billy Graham Newsweek and got it in the first hit

I didn't read it. I have no interest in Graham or religion. However, I do like finding things online :D :hi:

[SPKrazy]

8. When I Googled Billy Graham Newsweek

I got an article that was older than this one

go figure

thanks

your google must be better than mine!

[pretzel4gore]

3. years ago i read about a graham hater who wrote a ltte

to graham; w/out referring to the subject of letter or whatever, the guy said he was amazed that graham's org sent him a bible and one of billy's books, the bible was leather bound etc, hi quality. he admitted the gesture seemed too generous, as they had nothing to gain from it - and it impressed the guy a lot if only because it suggested the grahamites blindly spent money they didn't have to, iow generosity, and that story has stuck with me. i also read a book by graham once, long ago, and billy's interpretation of the idea 'sin' from its greek and ancient aramic usage as 'mistake' or 'missing the target' - and not so much wilful disobedience of some ill defined law. graham says if one knew god, they couldn't possibly sin; we 'sin' cuz we don't know who we are, or why we exist, or what's possible for us! and learning the answers to all that means finding god etc.
or something like that.
off topic a bit. recently listened to the cbc perspectus on alan watts, the 70's era zen buddhist author, and when watts described the purpose of life as more like enjoying a piece of music while it's happening, and not the objective of being 'saved' or going to heaven/hell etc, which is like listening to the music only for its final note! that did seem very insightful, coupled with all the rest(?) :)

btw, graham's kid, unfortunately, is a rape-ublican. the guy thinks might=right. and that god rewards his people with wealth , and punishes sinners with suffering etc. he had something to do with africa, famine relief, as if the africans haven't got enough problems just with what's there!
poor billy must suffer with it (like mike wallace watching his goofy kid chris wallace, foxnews mediawhore)

[SPKrazy]

5. Yes, It Is Hard To See Franklin As Being Anything Like His Father

but on the other hand Billy was apparently more sure of the inerrancy of scripture in his earlier life.

He apparently has fallen away from that idea and believes in divine inspiration, and some things to be taken literally, but much figuratively or as lessons.

I really have no interest at all in Franklin Graham.

I didn't think I had any interest in Billy until I read this article.

I do think that as some people get closer to the end of their life that their views on spirituality change.

My mother became an atheist in her later years.

Billy seems to have become more contemplative and less dogmatic.

I work with older people, and I see a lot of different ideas about God.

As I see a lot of people with Alzheimer's disease, I always wonder about the "spirit" inside the person and what it is experiencing inside a computer (brain) that's hard drive is crashing.

[pretzel4gore]

6. it's the most fascinating subject on earth

there are lotsa DUers who pooh pooh any religion, so disgusted are they by the users/abusers. but having recently read a john shelby spong book, in which the historicity of jesus, and the connection between the gospels and the clear attempts by the gospels authors to fit jesus' life with the old testament prophecies - apparently in order to give jesus legitimacy etc to the early christians (as if he needed that!)....to put it plainly, when spong laid out the actual links between something written in say, book of samuel or isaah etc and how the jesus story was then told as if 'foretold' then how the legend we all know today grew up out of the result; well, imo it really tears down alot of the basics that the entire christian church depends upon, and it's this very dependence which often dictates the way the 'church' repels criticism, and it can't work because, well some of the dogma is plain silly even to those who except it! spong is only the latest christian religionist who has been marginalized by the mainstream (and notice the 'church' has all told been a support to the nixon/reagan/bush bullshit rw revolution!)....the church should have been bush's main opponent all the time, one would think - maybe that's why so many people in '1st world' countries get alzheimers: in their hearts they know they've let insanity run amok, never really fought for truth, just skated through life and now things look so utterly bleak(?) their hard drives must crash or they'd be raving lunatics(?)

[SPKrazy]

9. Actually Bush's Own Church Opposed His Iraq Occuapation

and Spong is okay

I really like Marcus Borg better

but you are right, the writings of the new testament are those of people at least a generation removed from Jesus time, and writing from the oral traditions, the Jewish background, etc.

Christianity on the far right, and even the left, has lost a lot of what the original "Christian" ideas were.

But that discussion could go on for days and weeks, and months and years. (as it has) Liberal scholars like Spong, Borg, Pagels, and many others that I admire have brought to light the truths about the bible (it certainly isn't inerrant)

Back to Graham, again one of the more surprising things about him that I discovered was that he didn't believe in the inerrancy of the bible.

[SPKrazy]

14. Obviously That Is "Occupation" (too late to edit)

[Evoman]

12. Billy Graham doesn't generally bother me as much as some others.

Of course, the fact that he's very wealthy says something about him (i.e he willing to take money from the poor people who donate, and taking a large cut for himself). I get a somewhat better vibe from him then most of the fundie preachers, although to be honest, I don't know very much about him.

With that said, I really dislike his son. The guy was pretty bad dude when he was younger (drugs, violence, biking, etc) and I think he latched on the ministry to make some coin. I don't get the feeling he is sincere at all. He's just lucky hes Grahams kid.

On edit: I didn't read any of the other posts before I posted this. I also didn't know Franklin was a repub....its funny that I could tell from what little I know. I didn't even know his name.

[SPKrazy]

13. Yeah, To Me It Seems That Franklin Is One Of The Dominionist

types, you know the "Christian Reconstructionists" who want to remake the US in the image of biblical law

of course, they will pick and choose which "laws" they want from the bible.

all Democrats may end up being their "slaves"?

[Evoman]

16. No doubt.

I think its just an act with him, though. He may or may not be christian, I certainly can't say one way or another. But to me he just seems to be taking advantage of his fathers followers. He has always been a bad dude...I don't believe this particular leaopard has changed his spots.

Honestly, I've comtemplated going to the States and using religion to try to make some money. I'm fairly charismatic, and am also a good speaker. It would be fairly easy, I think. Of course I'm joking (well, only half-joking)...I have some semblance of a conscience. But what it be so evil fleecing repugs?

[immoderate]

15. I believe that Billy Graham is a Democrat.

I recall reading that somewhere. He supported presidents but didn't take sides.

I remember as a child that my mother, who was Jewish, expressed admiration for him, "He's a brilliant man." So I listened to his televised crusades. And I didn't see what my mother saw. Bright and articulate to be sure, but there was nothing of substance I could glean from his ministering.

It's hard to identify with those who take the word literally, as in the light of modern knowledge some things must be interpreted. In all, I rate Billy Graham as benign. His son, on the other hand is a peice of work. So was Billy Graham a great evangelist and a lousy parent?

On edit: After his adventures with Nixon, who burned him so bad, I can understand why he doesn't want to talk politics. And I can understand why he would avoid Moon, Robertson, Fallwell, etc., who are hacks.

--IMM

[hedgehog]

17. I think he is a good man who has changed with the times and

also has some responsibility for the changes. It is so rare to see someone humble enough to learn something new that we don't know what to make of it when we see it.

As for Billy Graham's son, well, none of us should be held responsible for what our grown children do. As a parent i try to do my best and I've made some big mistakes along the way. All I can take credit for is trying my best to raise my children with love. Anything they accomplish in their lives belongs to them.