Christianity vs. Scientology

[Goblinmonger]

So, in an effort to further the discussion of religion on here, what say we do a little comparative religious studies. What are the major similarities between Christianity and Scientology (as much as we know of it from "insiders")? Specifically, where do the mythologies (and I don't say this to offend, I just mean the "back story" if you will of the religion) diverge and converge?

My first offering:
Thought the concept of evil alien sould hanging around earth waiting to take over human bodies and make us crappy, unhappy people is a little far-fetched for some, there are major Christian sects that feel that demons possess humans and there are MAJOR sects that perform exorcisms. Though the specifics are a little different, it seems that the mythologies actually converge to some extent on this point.

Discuss.

[derby378]

1. Which tradition of Christianity should we use?

Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Charismatic, Monophysite, etc.?

[opihimoimoi]

2. Get them JWs on the list...should be interesting

[Goblinmonger]

3. Valid point

I think any would be valid. Certainly we could catagorize by major divisions, i.e. Catholic, Protestant, Gnostic. There may be comparisons that could be made across the board (like the fact that scientologists are dealing with the divinity of Christ).

[Finder]

4. I do not see much of a difference as far as followers...

and see both doing good as well as bad. Although Christianity has a history of atrocities that is unequalled to date, it is too soon to judge Scientology on that account. They do seem to be using the MO of Christianity as far as brainwashing and rising to power.

[Goblinmonger]

5. So a point of comparison would be

that the hierarchy of both show instances of using the religion for their own benefit and agenda regardless of the ability of the followers to do good in the name of the religion.

[Finder]

8. Yes, definitely. n/t

[varkam]

15. Scientology has already shown a propensity for harm.

What with Hubbard's desire to see psychiatrists raped and murdered, the current hostility towards therapy or medication, and Tom Cruise's recent railing against psychotropic medications, I think a good argument can be made to show that Scientology is doing quite a bit of harm.

[Finder]

16. But in comparison....

to Christianity, not much difference. Many christian sects hold the same views toward psych matters. Both religions in question would lose 1/3 of their sheep if they were to have conventional meds/therapy.IMO

[varkam]

17. Oh I see. I misread your first post.

Sorry :hi:

[SPKrazy]

29. Yes, Right, Of Course

i am brainwashed

but if anyone needed a brain washing it was probably me

how silly

[Finder]

31. No need to feel defensive, and...

groups like the one Phelps lead are brainwashed.IMO There are many christian groups who even today believe in exorcising demons, avoiding medical intervention and other quite extreme things.

Your brand of christianity does not involve following a charismatic leader nor are you forced to live under a strict set of rules but many sects of christianity do involve those things even today.

[cosmik debris]

6. And my question is

About the origin of the Earth and its people.

South Park did a spoof of Scientology a few months ago and I don't believe a word of because it was South Park. But it did make me question. I would like to know the Scientology view of the origin of Earth and the Origin of Humans.

[Goblinmonger]

10. I saw the episode, too

and it must be true, because, if you remember, they flashed "Scientologists really believe this" at the bottom of the screen. :rofl:

I have no answer as to the origins of the earth as regards Scientologist, but I agree that it would be interesting to know if they are creationists, big bang, or some other mythology.

[Finder]

14. Seed theory...sort of like intelligent design but not a deity...

Of course this is based on what a minister of scientology told me so not sure if all scientologists believe this. Many of the teachings use valid science as a basis but go all sci-fi after.

I do think they have been quite successful getting people off drugs so they do deserve some merit. Those I know who have become scientologists were educated but had major psychological issues. Christianity could never have appealed to them.

[Realityhack]

41. Actualy...

They do prity much bleive that. See http://www.xenu.net/ for a lot of info on scientology including internal texts etc.

[Recursion]

7. The main difference is insurmountable

Scientology is, despite its bizaare trappings, yet another rehash of gnosticism; the belief that humankind can be bettered from our allegedly wretched state only by access to secret and hidden knowledge passed down from the initiated. Gnosticism was fairly soundly rejected by Christianity about 1500 years ago.

[Finder]

9. Soundly rejected or erradicated through burning at the stake? n/t

[Recursion]

13. both

I can't think of a much sounder rejection than that (by "sound" I was referring to the emphatic nature of the rejection, not its logical support)

[madrchsod]

11. scientology is based on a really bad sifi writer

who eventually went stark raving mad. as far as i know christ was neither. scientology is a scam..based on machines and money to cure what ails us. i find nothing in the words of christ that said we should buy e machines and empty our wallets to be cleansed of aliens or our ills.
scientology there is no deviation from the word,there is no questioning,and those who give information about the "church" are often threatened or sued. christ said nothing of this in his teachings.
what man does with the knowledge is not any religions fault but human frailty

[Goblinmonger]

12. So there is no Jesus in Scientology

I get that. But do we just right them of as whacko?

I think many of the things that you put down scientology for can be said about Christianity at various points or as put forth by various people. It is a scan based on emptying our wallets to be cleansed--indulgences anyone? There is no questioning the word--fundamentalist christians anyone?

The point of this thread is to get past the kneejerk reactions to Scientology and see if there is any similarity in the mythology. I don't see any comparative analysis in your post.

[Dorian Gray]

26. The difference is, however,

that indulgences were a corruption of a religion that wasn't made up for the sole purpose of getting rich. There were theological reasons behind Catholicism. (I am attributing Indulgences solely to Catholicism right now, and that is the church in which I practice.) It was a human corruption instituted over a thousand years after the creation of the church.

Scientology was created in order to make money. From the beginning, they promised to clear the soul of thetans if the adherents paid for it. There was no corruption of the initial dogma of the religion. It was created to make money. They took established psychological practices, adapted them, and reackaged them to fit their needs.

[SPKrazy]

18. nothing alike nt

[Finder]

20. What are the differences in your opinion? n/t

[Goblinmonger]

23. That is stunning comparitive analysis.

Sorry for the snark (well, no all that much, but kind of), but any chance you want to elaborate. How about reponding to the comparison I made and explain why it isn't valid.

[SPKrazy]

28. Okay

Christianity- been around 2000 years

Scientology- been around about 60 years

yes, I know they both have their "fantasy" stories

but there is no comparison with a cult of people who believe something that is so out of the mainstream

whereas, Christianity, was at least started by a Jewish guy and his followers (mainstream religion in the region) and was spread throughout the regions nearby.

It now is so much larger than Scientology

besides, who died for Scientologists sins?

[Finder]

32. Consider Phelps, Koresh, Jones, etc...

who also represent themselves as christians.

As far as the Scientoligists sins...the belief in Thetans would be the mythological equivalent.

[Evoman]

19. I just don't understand religion at all.

So asking me something like this is like asking me what the difference is between Red M&Ms and Blue M&Ms....the only thing I can point out is the colour. They both taste the same. Similarly...people may have different gods, or the same god with different names, or different messiahs, or different origin stories (i.e colour). But they all taste the same (BULLSHIT).
I started a thread about Muslims and Christians to better understand the differences (and give people something to talk about), and I know that there are a lot of diffences in the particulars, but its all just so meaningless to me. How one person can say "Jesus is real" but then turn around and say "Mohammed isn't" overwhelms me...I can't understand it. Sometimes it feels like I'm completely out of the loop lol.

[Dogmudgeon]

21. "Scientology isn't a 'turn-the-other-cheek' religion" (Rev. David Gaiman)

Yep, David is Neil's father.

--p!

[nemo137]

30. Niel Gaiman's dad is a priest?

Learn something new every day, huh?

[breakaleg]

22. I have a question about Scientology in the news...

Lately I've been researching Scientology online and found many articles and websites giving accounts of people disaffected by that religion - former members, let's say. I wonder why all of these accounts are so old? Most are accounts from the 80s and 90s. And while most of them tell of fear of reprisals if they leave the religion, why are there no more recent accounts?

Are people more afraid to come forward now? And I've read of many Hollywood types that have left the religion but never speak of it. I find this strange as well. What would they have to fear?

[lvx35]

24. Scientology is bad, Christianity is okay.

That's the main difference. The arguments must be made in a secular way. My secular argument would be that Christianity is an all natural, organic religion that evolved culturally over thousands of years and was kept because of its value to its adherents, as demonstrated over generations of people. Scientology is an artificial, genetically engineered faith that was created by a human with a monetary agenda, made to look like a normal faith. It is financially destructive to its initiates and neophytes, while Christianity can probably be shown to have a decent financial effects on its recent converts, if nothing else because of the money you will save on not going to bars after you convert! ;)

[Finder]

25. That doesn't sound like a secular argument...

and Christianity is a "supernatural" religion. Christianity has not evolved but has fractured into several different sects and denominations, many which have no similarities to the pre-Constantine religion. Most adherents did not have a choice since it was the official religion in many countries and those who did not practice according to law were imprisoned and sometimes killed as heretics. Greed was a factor to many monarchs and their relationship with Christianity.

That said, Scientology does not have a long enough history to compare with Christianity nor will it become an official religion under any empire or country.

[NAO]

27. Christianity was fabricated in pre-scientific times - giving it an excuse

for inventing absurd superstitions. Hubbard, unlike Mark and Paul, had the benefit of a modern, scientific conception of the universe, and a working knowledge of the scientific method. That he should come up with whoppers like invisible aliens and pre-historic h-bombs is utterly baffling.

However, no pigs or other animals were harmed in the Scientology fabrication myths. Also, unlike Christianity, Scientology has not (yet) seized control of the government and destroyed Western Civilization.

***

Winter of the World –
The Terrible Cost of "Christendom"
Illuminating the terrifying history of a morbid cult that destroyed the ancient world - Raised to the status of State religion the Christian Church reigned over the destruction of civilization. As the centuries passed religious barbarism grew ever more vicious.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/winter.html

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. Scientology has

really, really bad music.

[SPKrazy]

34. Scientology Has Tom Cruise

that ought to be enough to taint it forever

[Goblinmonger]

36. In that

you and I are in complete agreement. What a complete nutjob he is. That is aside from Scientology.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

35. ALL RIGHT! I ADMIT IT

I think they are a bunch of loons!


Hey? who said that? Not me. Actually I enjoy science fiction. Seen that new show Eureka yet? Very cool.

Scientologists are no stranger than folks who pray to a woman in a persistant vegetative state and look for the icons around here to weep oil.

Grannie...rocking fast tonight.

[SPKrazy]

37. LOL Good One TG!

Couldn't agree with your sentiments any more

I'm sure there will be people that think because I believe in God, that I'm a "loon", but those who seemed to "worship" Schiavo, etc. do seem like loons, and cast a shadow of looniness over all theists IMO.

[beam me up scottie]

38. What he said, T.Grannie.

I admire your honesty.

And SPK's when he talks about mormons.

I think most of us struggle to be better people, and those of us who admit it are way ahead of the holy hypocrites who change the rules when they're caught.

[Disturbed]

39. "faith that was created by a human

All religions were dreamt up by humans.

They all defy illogic. One must believe in concepts that cannot be proven. Debate on any logical basis is not possible.

[beam me up scottie]

40. Are you addressing me?

Because your post has absolutely nothing to do with mine.

I'm not interested in debating the existence of deities, so if you're using my post to take a shot at my friends because they believe, you missed.