link; "If a Good Muslim Can't Be a Good American, Neither Can a Good Funda

[godhatesrepublicans]

I found this, thought it was interesting, thought I'd share it.

http://ezinearticles.com/?If-a-Good-Muslim-Cant-Be-a-Good-American,-Neither-Can-a-Good-Fundamentalist-Christian-Be-One&id=267007

Recently someone came up with an explanation as to why someone of the Islamic faith cannot possible be a good American. This is in response to that ignorance. The writer asks..

"Can a good Muslim be a good American?" In doing so, he sets himself up for a fall.

"Consider the following:" And of the Christian Fundamentalist, consider the following as well.

"Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia."

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Theologically- NO Because his allegiance is to God, the Sun God of Egypt. This is why God is Most High (At Noon), Jesus can be seen as an archetype Son of the Sun God and the Gospels are the account of a one year trip of the Sun Jesus through the signs of the Zodiac, and I ain't kiddn! The origin all gods in the human psyche is the SUN and all that it does for humans. This is why in the Old Testament it says in Malachi that the "sun will rise with healing in his wings," which is statement about the messiah to come. In Revelation, Jesus is also called the "son of the morning star," which of course is the SUN, or the Planet Venus depending. Long story. Don't sweat Allah the moon god.

"Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)"

And of the Christian Fundamentalist...Religiously- NO Because "there is no other name under heaven, (Jesus) by which a man can be saved. There is one true Christian Church and whoever believes on the name of the Lord..Jesus Christ, shall be saved, while others are condemned. Fundamentalist Christians do NOT accept any other religious beliefs as valid to theirs, so no difference here.

[eallen]

1. Abrahamic fundamentalism, any stripe, is at odds with liberal democracy.

As a liberal, I absolutely oppose the religious right in the US. I also oppose the religious right in other nations. Our own fundamentalists are the greatest threat to our own freedom, because they are here. The fundamentalists in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia have more thoroughly shut freedom in their home states, because they possess power unhampered by democratic traditions and constitution.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. there must be freedom of religion

because that is the only way religion can evolve into a tolerant, loving way of living.

[eallen]

5. So how do we encourage freedom of religion in the Islamic world?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Encourage those who practice it

Sufis can and do practice the concept that all roads lead to God. There are Sufis who have lived in Israel/Palestine who have encouraged Jews and Muslims to come and worship together-one shaykh in particular I know about was stopped by the PLO, who threatened his and his family's life for doing this. In Iran, the government was going to bulldoze down a Sufi teacing center, and some 2000 people came to peacefully protest. Yes, they were arrested;some were tortured;the center was destroyed. But kindly remember what happened to our Civil Rights people in the '60s before they won freedom. And it is happening-slowly. A member of the Saudi royal family went to the funeral of a Sufi teacher in that country, even though Sufis meeting there is outlawed. The teachings of tolerance do shine through.

[DeSwiss]

2. Excellent article!

Many people don't seem to see the basic contradiction between Christianity and the Constitutional mandate for individual liberty and freedom. Most Christians (the Fundies in particular), accept the benefits of the Constitutional protection for religion, which they seem to think was designed to enable them to impose their religious beliefs upon everyone else through secular laws.

I'm a former PK who grew up in the church, but never would accept its tenets on faith. I studied and sought my own answers and what I found contradicted almost everything I'd been taught. Now, 54 years later, few of those religious folks that know me will engage me in any type of religious conversation. They have no answers to my questions or statements. So they avoid me like the plague. The selective application of biblical tenets is the worst part of Christianity. The blending and/or bending of its verse, along with totally ignoring other parts (like references to dragons and leviathans, or loving one's neighbor), is the most insidious and hypocritical aspect of it all.

To me, I see religion in general and Christianity in particular (as currently practiced) as simply a vehicle that allows group support and social acceptance for the ignorance about and hatred of "the others." Mankind has always ostracized and vilified "the others." Now, with Christianity, they have God's permission and sanction. It allows their hatred and nonacceptance of others who are different from themselves, to have free reign and in fact purports to aid them in their quest for heaven. And a boring concept of heaven at that. A heaven where folks just stand around singing and praising God for all eternity. Knowing most American's short attention span, I know that's gonna get old real quick.

And as referenced in the article, I have read Karen Armstrong's works -- all of them. "A History of God" is an excellent resource and I highly recommend it to everyone. It should be a required textbook in all high schools in America. That way, the secular history will then make sense.


"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion" ~ John Adams

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Here's what sura 2:256 says

Might as well quote the Qur'an and not cite it....btw. my translation is called The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error; Whovever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks; and God heareth and knoweth all things.

You see, "Allah" is "God" in Arabic. I have Christian friends from Jersalem whose native tongue is Arabic, and they showed me their Bible, specifically John 1:1, which says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Guess what? "God" was written "Allah".

There is only God. So to argue over this concept or that concept of God is really only a way to make the small self (ego) feel important and puffed up. Get beyond names and forms, and you find all is One. And all is Peace.

[Evoman]

7. That is really interesting...I have seen an Arabic bible before

and I can confirm this. It would be an interesting thing to show those people who can't believe that the two deities are basically one and the same. I had the conversation with my friend...he looked at me like I was a loon and snickered at my ignorance when I told him his god is Allah!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. What's even more interesting

is to know that the Aramaic word for God is "Allaha". Aramaic was the language Jesus spoke.

[Evoman]

6. Good discussion

But I would like to add that people of the Islamic faith are not equivalent to Fundie Christians. Fundie Islamics are more Equivalent to Fundie Christians. Liberal moslems could be as good an american, I'm guessing, as a liberal christian. Now, I'm not sure if there is something in Islam that lends itself more to conservatism that Christianity (I suspect there is, because here in Canada they are typically a more conservative group, though this is just conjecture based on anecdotal evidence so take it with a grain of salt) but that may be a legitimate argument to make. However, that sort of discussion is for another thread.