Anyone have any experience with Ouija boards?

[Zebedeo]

I know that many people believe that Ouija boards are methods to communicate with deceased persons who exist in a different plane or dimension.

I know that many Christians believe they are dangerous because they allow access to demons posing as benevolent spirits or ghosts.

I also know that skeptics attribute the observed phenomena to either conscious or subconscious movement of the planchette by the participants, either through the ideomotor effect or through voluntary movement. Skeptics say that if the participants are blindfolded, the results are usually incomprehensible gibberish.

I would be interested to know whether anyone here has had a personal experience with a Ouija board (or similar talking board of a different name) that tends either to confirm or disconfirm any of the above hypotheses, or some other hypothesis about Ouija boards.

I myself have never owned or used one, so I have no personal anecdotes to contribute on the subject. However, I have heard stories that are quite chilling, if they can be believed.

I trust DU posters to honestly relate true stories of their experiences, if any, with Ouija boards.

(edited to remove duplicate word)

[rfranklin]

1. I spoke to the Devil a number of times through my Ouija board...

but he really is a poor conversationalist and talks a lot about his psoriasis and ingrown toenails. I think he's a bit of a hypochodriac.

[SPKrazy]

2. I Had A Friend Who Had One

and she was really into it

we used it once and while she insisted that it was speaking to us, my feeling was that it was more likely either a way for her or me to say things and blame it on "spirits"

or that it is more likely to be some form of communication with the unconscious mind

there's always the possibility that it is something more, but I'm quite skeptical about these things

Having studied and trained some in hypnosis, I know that things that seem to be from outside, may instead be from inside the mind.

[flobee1]

5. I've heard it referred to as

the CB of the afterlife.
It not only attracts the intended target on occasion
it also draws the riffraff and spirits that aren't so friendly



and like most riffraff, they tend to hang around well after you are finished and cause trouble.

[Zhade]

37. "things that seem to be from outside, may instead be from inside the mind"

Okay, SPK, please, please forgive me, but - if you know this, why does it not apply to your religious beliefs?

I'm not attacking, I'm asking.

[SPKrazy]

38. Okay, Fair Question

and I fall back to the core of my beliefs:

that "God is, and is in everything"

I don't believe in spirits contacting people through Ouija boards.

I do believe that God, can be found in, and is in everyone, and everything.

Why Christianity? I suppose because that is the culture that I was raised in.

But, I assure you, I am not a traditional Christian (at least by RW standards which seem to be the only standards that the corporate MSM considers Christian these days) and my beliefs about Christ are that he was a man, who was able to transcend and find the divine. From the POV of the "post Easter" Jesus he was deified. But then, we all are divine (in my belief) and Jesus was able to be more aware of and to tap into that divinity than many are. He isn't the only "spirit person" as I'll call him. I believe that people of all cultures, and belief systems have had "spirit people" (as people who are able to transcend the material and glimpse the spiritual world more than others have been able to)

Back to Ouija boards. Having spent some time, money, and training in clinical hypnosis, I have a recognition of what the unconscious mind is able to do- phenomenons as catalepsy, arm levitation, analgesia, anesthesia, amnesia, automatic movement, etc. are all things that can happen in a hypnotic state. The unconscious mind communicates with us all the time without our awareness. Sometimes it may seem like static and doesn't come through to the conscious awareness.

My experiences with something as mysterious, and yet non-mysterious as arm levitation tell me that it is not a great leap to think that moving a piece of plastic (or wood) around a board is anything but a) a way for the unconscious mind to communicate (in the best of cases) or b) a way to BS people into believing something that isn't true.

Now, the unconscious mind may in fact be more able to access the spiritual realm than the conscious mind due to the lack of the filtering aspects of the conscious mind, and the lack of time recognition by the unconscious mind. (bear with me here) In a relaxed state, where the conscious mind is not hindering the unconscious mind, we may be able to access ideas and awarenesses that aren't possible when we are fully aware. (Example, one works and re-works a problem in their mind, and comes up with no answer. They give up, or stop, rest, do something else, and the answer comes to them. The answer was likely there all along, but the stream of consciousness was unable to tap into the answer due to having the focus in the wrong place)

Peace

[Random_Australian]

40. Ooooooh! Thorough answer! Applause!

:applause:

[Zhade]

44. Great answer, but...forgive me...I have two more questions.

Seriously though, let me say that I appreciate the back-and-forth.

Okay, so...apply my question to the "spiritual realm". Why is it that this isn't also one of those things just inside one's mind?

And second, how you you define god, after "is and in everything"?

[SPKrazy]

45. I'll Give This A Shot

1) Why isn't the "spiritual realm" just one of those things inside one's mind?

I think that the spiritual realm, or realm of the spirit, God if you will, is both in and out of the mind and body, as I said God is, and is in everything. The Ouija board again, is at best, a way of communicating with the unconscious mind (which may be influenced by the spiritual realm) and at worst, a cheap parlor trick. God is something that is and is in everything. I'm talking this universe, other universes, other dimensions that we are unaware of, everywhere. In other words, we are all part of God, and God is therefore part of us, and everything else. A Ouija board is a piece of cardboard with a plastic or wood piece on it and one or more persons touch it and it moves basically where it wants to. Whereas I can look at people, and see God. I can look at animals and see God. I can look at the forest and see God. I can look at the stars and see God. It isn't (to me) just that God "made" it all, it's that God is, and is in it all.

2) How do you define God, after "is and in everything"?

I'm not sure I understand this one, but I'll answer it as I interpret it to be:

Since I view everything as infinite (reaching beyond the visible realm) I think that "after" is and is in everything, is more "is and is in everything".

Thanks for the opportunity to try to explain it. I'm not filled with certitude that my views won't change over time, as they have changed over time already. They've evolved, as I believe the Universe evolves over time. In the spiritual realm (possibly just another dimension) time doesn't exist so evolving over time isn't even a reality there, but it is here and that's all I have at my disposal to try to understand.

[Zhade]

47. I think you broke my brain.

:D

"2) How do you define God, after "is and in everything"?

I'm not sure I understand this one, but I'll answer it as I interpret it to be:"

That's my bad, I should have written 'besides "is and in everything"', I made it confusing even to myself.

I'm afraid every answer I solicit will cause me to drill down another layer to ask why ____ isn't also just in your mind (in this case, the idea that a spiritual realm exists). Since it's probably clear that my ultimate point is "why do you believe this is real but not that", I don't need to continue down that road. I'm hoping you'll at least ponder the question though, if just for intellectual exercise (which we all need).

One last question - if god is everything, why do you worship it? I mean, doesn't the idea of god being everything kind of make the concept of gods pointless?

Not mocking, seriously asking, and I promise it'll be the last one. :)

[SPKrazy]

48. Why Do I Worship

mainly because it helps me to feel connected to everything

since I believe that God is, and is in everything, the symbolic rituals of worship help me to feel connected to that (even though I believe I am and we all are, the "feeling" of connection is important to me) and to feel connected to the millions of others that have participated in such rituals.

The concept of Gods. Since I believe in one God, being everything, my belief is also that other "Gods" are really just manifestations of the God that is and is in everything.

That includes the "God of Abraham", probably even the Roman and Greek Gods (probably because I haven't thought about that one too much) I think that God reveals God to us in a multitude of ways, but we are never able to completely grasp all that God really is because it is (as I see it) impossible to grasp everything in this universe (for example does dark matter exist? If so, how come attempts to find it have failed. If it doesn't, then what explains differences in gravity observed in galaxies vs. our solar system?) We may understand that someday soon (I suspect we will) and we will have more insight into the universe that is (to me) God.

Back again to why do I believe this is real but not that. I don't put stock in limiting the potential and possibility of what God may be. To me, a Ouija board has just never struck me as being something that is real. That may not follow logic, and I will ponder that. I suppose a Ouija board might be able to do something, but I would imagine that whatever a Ouija board is purported to be able to do, could be done without the props as well. (If in fact spirits exist as entities with our human consciousness-something I'm skeptical about-why would you need a board made of cardboard to do that?)

[Lerkfish]

3. my sister was into it when we were kids, but I never felt it was anything

other than microtremors unconsciously coming from one or both people touching the planchette.
I have had other, more palpable paranormal experiences, though, but never with a Ouji board.

[lapfog_1]

4. Well, I asked the internet 8 ball if I could communicate with the dead

using a Ouija board...

And it replied "Don't count on it" so I figure that, while possible... it is unlikely to work as advertised.
The Internet 8 ball is almost never wrong.

http://www.superlaugh.com/1/8ball.htm


(sorry, couldn't help myself)

[Zebedeo]

7. Hmm.

I asked the internet 8-ball "Do Ouija boards allow communication with evil demons?"
It responded: "That's a secret."

[Jo March]

6. I used one when I was 15

A friend and I played with one. We "talked" to a 5 year old boy named Jim who had been shot by his father. It freaked us both out, let me tell you.

Now, was it just a figment of our imagination and we were actually moving the little thingie or were we really talking to spirits? I don't know. All I know is that we were trying to have fun and we ended up being scared to death.

I've never touched one since and have no desire to do so. Plus, my religious beliefs tell me that it's not a good thing to do.

[celestia671]

8. I did years ago..

with some friends of mine. It told me I was going to marry a weatherman named Fred! I figured it was one of my friends pushing the thing around.

[MichiganVote]

9. Well I found out what boy liked me in 5th grade. Will that help?

We tried to get the devils to come up from the bottom of the earth but they couldn't make it for some reason.

[shraby]

10. I've had two experiences while playing with a board.

In one, my cousin and I (around 13 yrs. of age) were playing and her dad went outside and came back in and said "if the Ouija is so smart, what do I have in my hand"? The board spelled out "shit". Sure enough, he had a piece of dried out chicken shit in his hand.

The other experience was one time my Mom and I were playing with the board and it said there was money buried out behind the barn. Years later, a company drilled for oil in the field behind the barn and found oil..it still is pumping oil.

Never had an Ouija board work like that one did since.

[MikeH]

11. Someone once gave a demonstration of it in my high school speech class

Our assignment in our class one time was to give a talk giving a demonstration of something, and somebody chose to give a demonstration of an Ouija board.

To me it seemed to be more a toy, or something for fun or entertainment, than anything else.

One question somebody asked was what year then-President Johnson was going to die, and the board gave the answer of 1987. He actually died in 1973.

I told my mother about the board being demonstrated in my speech class, and she gave me an Ouija board on my birthday that year. I played with it a little bit, but never became really interested in it. It was one of those things that I put on my closet shelf, and never used. I don't recall what I eventually did with it; I would have either tossed it or given it to somebody else, probably to one of my sisters.

I personally have never had any kind of "supernatural" experience, any experience, either "good" or "evil", which would indicate or confirm to me the reality of anything that might be called supernatural or paranormal.

[Meshuga]

12. I bought one at a toy store

Parker Bros. makes them. I used to make shit up to scare the shit out of my little brothers with it.

[squarepants]

13. I did when I was younger

I think maybe I was 12 or 13. Anyway, I was over a friend of a friends house. Our mutual friend had left, so it was just me and the other girl. I didn't even know her that well. Can't remember her name. She had one of those boards, brought it out and we started playing around with it. I had heard that people talk to spirits with them or whatever, but I was skeptical. I thought the girl was moving the little thingy around the board. So I started asking questions that I figured SHE wouldn't know the answers to, but if we were really talking to a spirit, the spirit ought to know the answers. I don't remember all the questions I asked the spirit (it said it was male), but I do remember asking it what my middle name was. Honestly, there's no way the girl that was playing it with me could've known that, but the little board thingy spelled it out, although it didn't spell it correctly. In fact, whenever we got a "response" from the "spirit", the spelling was awful. I started making fun of the spelling and then it spelled out something to the effect of I'll be sorry I said that, or something like that (in awful spelling). That freaked me out and I haven't messed with one since. lol. I never really knew for sure if we were even talking to a spirit. I know I wasn't moving the board thingy around, but maybe the girl I was playing with was moving it for all I know. Maybe our mutual friend told her my middle name at some point for some reason, and I just ASSUMED she couldn't have known it. Whatever REALLY happened, it still freaked me out enough not to mess with those things anymore. lol.

[charlie]

14. Plenty of experience

but no "experiences" with Ouija boards. Back when almost every house had a closet shelf for board games, it wasn't unusual to see an Ouija board tucked in there. Never knew any kids who were thrilled with them. The only times they'd get used would be when some visiting friend would ask, hey what's this, and they'd get pulled down for a demonstration ...OOOooooOOOoooo... meh, nothing. The most useless, pointless, no-fun "toy" ever.

They had a big surge in notoriety when The Exorcist novel and book came out. A good chunk of the country lost it's mind and what were once goofy novelties, now Portals to Satan, filled a lot of trash heaps.

[trotsky]

15. All you need to know about Ouija toys:

(and yes, it's a toy)
http://skepdic.com/ouija.html

As noted in the article, to prove the Ouija toy is bogus, just do it blindfolded. If a spirit (or demon) is "guiding" the pointer, it shouldn't care if you're blindfolded, right?

[Zebedeo]

16. Thank you for your input, trotsky

However, I already know the skeptics' position on Ouija boards, and I even noted in the OP that skeptics suggest doing it blindfolded as a test. What I asked for in the OP is whether any DUers have had PERSONAL experiences that would confirm or disconfirm any hypothesis about Ouija boards - whether debunking them or not.

However, I am not sure that I agree with your assertion that the blindfold test negates any possibility of demonic or spiritual influence, even if it is assumed that the skeptic's dictionary is correct that "Usually, the result will be unintelligible non-sense."

After all, since the demon or spirit is communicating to the participants through the participants' eyes (by displaying letters that can be read by the participants), it would stand to reason that whatever demon or spirit is controlling the planchette would not bother to move it if the eyes of the participants were blindfolded. There would be no point in it, because there would be no communication.

Furthermore, the blindfold test does not eliminate the possibility that the demon or spirit is possessing the body of one of the participants and needs that participant's eyes in order to move the planchette to the desired letters on the board.

[trotsky]

18. The bottom line is,

you'll see what you want to see. Since you think evil demons and spirits exist, you will look for reasoning to support the theory that they are giving Ouija board messages. No amount of skeptical thinking or other evidence will dissuade you, you'll just come up with reasons why your theory is correct. (Untestable reasons, of course.)

Always remember, the magic can't hurt you if you don't believe in it.

[Zebedeo]

20. Actually, I don't have a position on Ouija boards yet

That's why I solicited tales of personal experience of DUers, as part of my decision process.

So far, it seems that some posters have had experiences with them that are not readily explainable by chance, the ideomotor effect, or conscious movement by the participants (see blondee's post below), and other posters have had no weird experiences with them.

[trotsky]

26. The one factor you're forgetting...

is that these are all personal stores. Anecdotal evidence. You have no way of verifying that even IF they happened, that there was anything other than a mundane explanation or pure coincidence. Plenty of people have done Ouija and gotten gibberish, or when they did get a "message" it turned out to be useless or wrong. But those folks forget the experience - there was nothing to make them stand out. So naturally, the only people you'll hear from are the ones who think they got a message that was eerily accurate. Remember the few hits, forget the millions of misses.

If you use things like anecdotal evidence to shape your view of the world, you're in for some rough spots.

[Orrex]

19. He's got you there, Trotsky

In support, I offer no less an authority than the text of The Malleus Maleficarum:

Whenever any Angel, good or bad, works within the physical limits of the body, he enters the body in such a way as to influence its physical capacities. . .

So we conclude that, speaking of all other perfections in the good or defects in the wicked, when these are caused by a spirit operating in the head and its attributes, such a spirit enters into the head within the physical limits of the physical capabilities of the body.

--Part II, Question I, Chapter X

See how simple it is? If the petitioner can't see through the blindfold, neither can the inhabiting entity.

A suitable test, I would guess, would be to have the petitioner ask a question whose answer he can't know, such as the text printed on a card held behind his back. The demon could view the card prior to communicating and could spell out the text once it had access to the planchette.

But don't bother with questions like "What is Bob thinking over there right now?" either:

For we showed in the First Part of this treatise, when we examined whether devils could turn the minds of men to love or hatred, that they cannot enter the inner thoughts of the heart, since this belongs to God alone. But the devil can arrive at a knowledge of men's thoughts by conjecture, as will be shown later.

--Part II, Question I, Chapter II

That is, he can't read your mind, but he can make a pretty good guess at it from your body language and general behavior. So if you keep glancing at the cookie jar, the devil might be able to figure out that you're hankering after some Oreos, and he might spell this out through the planchette.

Consider yourself warned!

[blonndee]

17. Man, I probably shouldn't even say this

because I don't believe in demons and I'm pretty sure I don't believe in ghosts or anything like that, and I think psychics and tarot and all that is just hooey and/or wishful thinking. Plus, I don't want to sound like a nut. But here goes anyway.

Some friends and I used to play with Ouija ALL the time when I was in high school. I swear on my life that a Ouija told me that this guy I hated was going to die soon(he was only 17) and told me (on a separate occasion) that my biological mom's name was Jacqueline and that she was dead. I forgot all about this stuff till later, since we played with the board so much. About eight months later, a friend called me and told me that the guy the board said would die had drowned while drunk at a lake. I never touched a Ouija again and had nightmares about causing that guy to drown. Oh, and about three years after that, I finally located my biological mom's family and learned that she had died when I was 13 and that her name was Jackie.

I don't know what a Ouija is, if anything, but that was some scary crap.

[greyl]

21. Do you remember how the Oijoa board worded those 2 examples?nt

[blonndee]

22. Yes,

My friend and I were talking about this guy that I hated and I asked something along the lines of, "What should I do about Jean? He's talking shit about me." And the board said "Nothing." So we asked "Why?" and the board said "already dead." So of course we asked the board what the hell it was talking about and it said "dead soon me." We asked what "me" meant and never got a definitive answer but prodded it and challenged it, asking if the board was claiming IT was going to kill Jean and it said yes, but of course we didn't believe it.

Then the other one...I was trying to get the board to "prove" it wasn't just a bunch of baloney and so I said something like, OK, then, tell me where my mom is and it said "dead...OD" and kept saying "no" to a bunch of questions we asked about various drugs, then I asked if she killed herself and it said "yes...yes...yes..." over and over again. Turns out she killed herself with carbon monoxide in her car. When I asked her name it spelled out Jacqueline, which wasn't quite right, but who knows...maybe she called herself that, and I later found it close enough to be freaked out!

[greyl]

23. Was "Jackie" the name on your mom's birth certificate?nt

[blonndee]

24. No, my adopted mom's name is on my BC--that's how they

did it in Texas back then. That's why it took so long for me to find her family. Closed adoption was par for the course and has caused me a lot of hell. "Jackie" is what is on her death certificate and that's what her family called her. Why do you ask?

[greyl]

25. You misread my post.

I asked what name was on your mom's birth certificate.

Why do you ask?

Just exploring the details before I make a meta comment.

[blonndee]

27. LOL. I guess you misread my question.

I was curious as to why you were asking, that's all. I was interested in where you were going with it.

[greyl]

28. No, I didn't. nt

[Orrex]

31. Here's a bit of mind-reading for you

I've used my psychic powers to determine that greyl asked the name on your mother's birth certificate because it's central to the incident you've described. If, like her death certificate, her birth certificate indicated "Jackie," then the board's response of "Jacqueline" was a "miss" that you identified as a "hit." End of story.

For that matter, even if her birth certificate said "Jacqueline" but everyone called her Jackie, one wonders why the spirit would get the name wrong.

May I ask when your birth-mother was born? Throughout most of the 60's, "Jacqueline was one of the top 50 names, so on those odds alone it's a pretty common choice, especially in post-JFK America. Is your real name derived from "Jacqueline" in any way? Does your real name begin with J, for example? Such indicators are commonly used by fraudulent psychics (but I repeat myself) known as "cold-readers," but they could have influenced the operator of the planchette, too.

As to your birth-mother's death, well, I'd say that the board had another "miss." No coroner in the land would say "she OD'ed on carbon monoxide," so "DEAD OD" is pretty far off the mark. I suspect that if the board had said that she'd died in a car accident, you'd have interpreted that as a successful "hit," too. You're taking a general response and applying it to known circumstances, which is exactly how charlatans like James van Praagh and Sylvia Browne make their money, by the way.

As to the friend who drowned: "dead soon me" is about as vague a Rorschach-response as I can imagine, easily applicable to a million and one interpretations. So Jean died in a sad accident. Did he happen to have a drinking problem before his death? Did he have an unusually reckless lifestyle? Might the person operating the planchette been screwing with you? (After all, in that same situation we've all done that). Regardless, I'd be more likely to identify it as a coincidence, especially when "soon" is the only indicator of a timeframe. If he'd died fourteen months later instead of eight, I doubt that you'd have said "oh, well—at least it wasn't soon."

Sorry, but the examples you've given are mildly creepy coincidences, but nothing more.

I don't begrudge you your choice not to use a Ouija board since then, of course.

[blonndee]

32. Oh, of course it may be coincidence, and

probably even likely that it is. I'm highly skeptical about such things. But it was creepy enough for me not to do it anymore. I was just sharing my personal experience, not making any kind of pronouncement about what, if anything, a Ouija board does or is.

[Orrex]

33. My Ouija board told me that you were going to say that

:evilgrin:

[blonndee]

34. LOL!

Cute.

[Zebedeo]

43. Could it be that you are seeing what you want to see?

Seeing "misses" when most people would see them as amazingly accurate "hits"?

[Orrex]

51. I don't think so

Because, frankly, they're not "hits." They're in the ballpark, but they're sufficiently non-specific that they can be matched to a wide range of results and still seem "amazingly accurate." Astrology and tarot cards work the same way, as does the pseudoscientific Myers-Briggs Test Instrument.

That kind of seemingly near miss, in which the petitioner fills in the blanks, is the main way that fraudulent psychics work, because it's so effective at convincing those who want to believe:

FRAUD: I'm hearing someone with a J. Does anyone have a family member who's passed over with the initial J?

BELIEVER: My great-uncle's name was Jasper.

FRAUD: Thank you.

See? The fraud hasn't done anything but make a guess, but the believer, by doing all the interpretive heavy-lifting, has made the guess seem like an "amazingly accurate hit." The examples with the Ouija board in this thread are much the same. If the board had predicted that Roger would die in a car accident and Roger later broke his neck by falling out of his SUV, would that have counted as a hit, too?

Something interesting is definitely at work here, but it's the mind's ability to perceive pattern and meaning where there is evidence only of coincidence.

[Zebedeo]

52. Oh, I'm well aware of fraudulent psychics and their methods

I saw the South Park episode on John Edward. LOL

But I think that blonndee's experience with the Ouija board is quite different. For one, blonndee is not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's obvious from blonndee's first post in this thread that he/she is very reluctant to bring this up and is as skeptical as anyone about it. For another thing, to predict that a 17 year old will soon die (by any method), and to have that prediction come true, would have to be an amazing coincidence (if it is a coincidence). 17 year olds don't usually die. The odds against it are staggering. Then to have the same predictor (the board, in this instance) also accurately state that blonndee's birth mother was dead is another amazingly improbable prediction. To also accurately predict that she had committed suicide just further compounds the improbability of the prediction being a mere coincidence. You seem to go out of your way to nitpick that the board said "OD" (which you take to apply only to drugs) when in fact the death was as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning. I just get the impression that you may be straining to find a "miss" here. I know that sometimes people strain to find "hits," when that is what they want to believe, but I think it is equally true that people may strain to find "misses," when they don't want to believe that there is anything supernatural in the universe. That is why I asked the question of you, as to whether it was possible that you were seeing what you wanted to see. I think it is possible, and I also think it is possible that others may see what they want to see in the other direction. But I don't think blonndee falls into that category.

[Orrex]

53. Still not convinced, I'm afraid

A note before I begin. I put a lot of things in quotation marks in this post, but I don't mean them as snarky scare-quotes; they're just quotes.

We're dealing with the probability of a supernatural phenomenon versus the probability of mundane (that is, non-supernatural) coincidence. A contest of that sort, I'm afraid, greatly favors the mundane explanation simply by virture of overwhelming precedent. To establish the existence of a supernatural phenomenon, we need evidence a lot stronger than a pair of predictions, even if those predictions are seen as wildly unlikely.

Consider this: my graduating high school class of 1989 (would have) had 185 kids, three of whom died between May of that year and December. Based on number alone (and ignoring factors like health, lifestyle, etc.) the odds of having an "amazingly accurate" hit are about one in sixty-two. And if we allow "soon" to extend into 1991, the chances rise to one in thirty-seven. Incidentally, of the five who died in total, four died in car accidents.

Now let's suppose that half of the senior kids had, at some time before May, used Ouija boards and received "predictions" that some other kid would die "soon." Assuming that no duplicate predictions are made, then each of those 92 predictions would have about a one in 18 chance of being right. Hardly a remarkable coincidence, I'd say.

Granted, my graduating class isn't necessarily representative of the national rate of teen fatality, but I think that the point is served. After all, aren't car accidents like the #1 or #2 cause of teen death? Now, if the Ouija board had correctly predicted that Jean would die while fighting an oil fire off the coast of Madagascar, I'd be much more impressed.

Also, as I hinted in my original post, we know nothing of Jean's lifestyle, but the users of the planchette presumably did. Was he a frequent drinker? Did he come from a troubled home? Did he have a history of depression? Was he a careless driver? Was he a habitual risk-taker? All of these considerations must factor into any assessment of an alleged prediction about Jean's fate, because they offer clues as to how his immediate future might unfold. Any bookie would tell you the same thing, as would anyone who works with actuarial tables.

Now let's consider the "predictions" about the biological mother. I stand by my comments about her name, so let's move onto the matter of her death. For what reason might the planchette's other operator offer false information? Who knows? But we know nothing of that individual's personality, so we can only say that it's more likely that he or she--in the vibe of the evening--might play along with the atmosphere than it is likely that a spirit has decided to reveal cryptically non-specific information just because Parker Brothers put out a toy. Can we at least agree on this point?

It hardly seems unlikely to me that a 15 year old, when faced with a friend's weighty question like "where is my biological mother" might try to offer some kind of answer, either to mess with or placate the questioner. Saying "she's dead" has a gratifying morbidity, and why not? The questioner hasn't seen the mother in years and isn't likely to find out soon. And let's pick a cause of death--well, broadly speaking a fifteen year-old seems most likely to pick either drugs, disease or violence, and in this case the choice was drugs (OD). Well, she had passed away, but not by a drug overdose. How is this a hit, in your view? I suspect that if she'd OD'd and lived, that would also be counted as a hit. You argue that she had suffered an overdose of carbon monoxide, but by that logic John F. Kennedy suffered from acute lead poisoning.

I have never heard of a carbon monoxide death described as an overdose, because there is no correct "dose" of CO. Instead, the death might be called "exposure to carbon monoxide," or the victim might be said to have "succumbed to carbon monoxide poisoning." If you can find me some well-known examples in which "carbon monoxide overdose" was formally listed as the cause of death, I would be most appreciative.

All of this doesn't even get into the possibility that the account of the incident has been embellished over the years, innocently or otherwise.

I'm not being a contrarian—my objections are not irrationally stubborn nor impervious to dissuasion. But I am unable to accept as evidence of the supernatural any anecdote that can be more readily addressed by a natural explanation.

For the record, I'm not convinced by the claim that people unconsciously move the planchette, as though this plastic apparatus is a window to the mind beyond anything dreamed by Freud or Jung. Instead, it seems far more likely that one or both operators of the planchette are controlling it outright or, at the very least, are gently steering it toward the answers that they want or expect. And once you've spelled out "D-E-A-" on the board, it doesn't take a mind-reader to figure out that the next letter will be a "D."

Sorry, but nothing in the account, even taken as wholly true at face value, differs in any remarkable way from the aforementioned cold-readings. No malicious deception need be inferred, either; it's entirely reasonable to conclude that the participants in the tabletop divination were just having a good time.

So I don't think it's a matter of me seeing what I want to see, except insofar as I "want to see" the most verifiably credible explanation.

[greyl]

49. Very impressive!

You should apply for Randi's million. ;)

[WoodrowFan]

29. is there a good history of the Ouija Board?

Is there a good scholarily book on the history of "talking boards"? I don't mean sensational "I used a Ouija and it ate my brain until I found Jeebus" books, but a good matter-of-fact history of how they developed, were marketed, etc.

[Zebedeo]

30. I don't know of any scholarly book on the subject

I would guess there is some sort of cultural history book about them, though.

There's an article on Wikipedia.

[raccoon]

35. I had one as a teenager, in the 1960's.

Played with it a lot, asked it lots of question. I don't remember it ever saying something would happen that actually did happen.

I think people subconsciously push the planchette around. Some people consciously do it, no doubt.

Another thing, when it starts to spell something, people guess at what it's going to spell, and then subconsciously or consciously push it to spell what they wanted it to spell. For instance, it goes to the letter "P"? Somebody says, "Oh, maybe Paul's going to be my next boyfriend!"

Then, lo and behold, the Ouija spells out P-A-U-L. :-)

[Zhade]

36. I used one several times as a kid.

They have never been shown to work. Waste of time and money (but not my money, thankfully).

[Desertrose]

39. back in my college days the Ouija board predicted MLK & RFK deaths

That of course has been a number of years ago but some things stick in your mind.

We were told a few days before the event, that King would die and then at the same time also RFK would die. I know we got the date for King's death and also for RFK- but by then we were not together in the dorm.

We scoffed and then both things happened. Freaked out a few of the kids.


Anytime you open yourself to the "realm of spirit" ( or whatever you want to call it) it is very wise to protect yourself and do things in a respectful and/or sacred manner.

Haven't done a Ouija board much since then as there are much better ways to "connect". :)

DR

[Evoman]

41. I'm evil...here are some of the bad things I've done with em.

1)When I was about ten, my sister had a friend over (Lisa) and they needed 4 people (they said) to use it. I didn't want to, but my sister made me and my brother do it. This is how it went (from what I remember)

Sister: Spirit, who likes Lisa in our class?

Board: Only Teacher

Sister: Our teacher likes her?

Board: Yes

Sister: Who likes me?

Board: Lisa....Lesbian.

Sister: EVOMAN!!!

2)My cousins Ouiji board (I was fifteen):

Cousin:Will any of us die in the next five years?

Board: YES

Cousin: Who will die?

Board: Evoman.

Cousin: OMG...how will he die?

Board: Too much sex Too Sexy

Cousin: Evoman!

3) This one is really evil....this was about 7 years ago, when I was 19 or so. It was after a party. A friend of mine took out the board and there was about 6 of us left. I, of course, insisted on being one of the ouiji board people.

Friend: Is someone there?

Board: Yes

Friend: Who is it.

Board: Spirit Good.

Friend: The spirit of who.

Board: Mom

Friend: Who's mom are you?

Board: You.

Friend: Me, cheryl? But my mom is still alive *starts freaking out*. Are you my mom?

Board: Yes

Friend: *freaking out* What is your name? (unfortunately, I didn't know her moms name)

Board: Chewbacca

Friend: EVOMAN!


Lol..I was always a skeptic and thought those fucking things were a waste of time. But I absolutely loved playing with them, anyways. Hehe.

[Random_Australian]

42. That is the funniest thing I have read in a looong time!

[trotsky]

46. "how will he die?" "Too much sex"

LMFAO!!! :rofl:

[sakabatou]

50. ROTFLMAO!

[Evoman]

54. I didn't ever think that anybody over 12 took Ouija boards seriously

I mean...seriously. Quija boards people. OUIJI BOARDS!!! GAH!

Honestly...if the fucking spirits want to talk to us so bad, why don't they just pick up a freakin pencil and write out what they want. Is moving a board with the hands of two or more people easier than picking up a freaking pencil telepathically or astrally or however the fuck non-existant beings carry things.

We've put people on the moon. We have noted 1000 of galaxies, supernova, and planetoids. We have sent probes to other planets. We have evidence of black holes. We have discovered the blueprint of life, and have found remains of organisms millions of years old. We can use electrons to get a picture of virii and bacteria.

AND THINKING ADULTS ARE STILL DISCUSSING WHETHER SPIRITS AND DEMONS TALK TO US WITH OUIJI BOARDS?!!! ARGHHH